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View Full Version : How many fly with forcefeedback sticks



jessi1
05-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Does it make a difference in the feeling of flying, such as can you feel when your about to stall,or feel when your pulling to hard to turn. How bout the feeling of the guns do they feel good to you. Was wondering how much (good or bad) the differences are. could you who use them post the brand and what you feel about forcefeedback. Also does it make a difference when flying different planes fw190, p-51 etc thanks

jessi1
05-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Does it make a difference in the feeling of flying, such as can you feel when your about to stall,or feel when your pulling to hard to turn. How bout the feeling of the guns do they feel good to you. Was wondering how much (good or bad) the differences are. could you who use them post the brand and what you feel about forcefeedback. Also does it make a difference when flying different planes fw190, p-51 etc thanks

T_O_A_D
05-10-2005, 11:46 AM
Yes

yes

yes

Turned the gun affect off mostly. It really sours the aim.

and I beleive yes

Mine is aniquated. Microsoft Force Feedback.

It does make a difference in the signals. Not sure if they reall help though. It's more of an immerion thing actually. Although I'm told real flight is not felt in the stick, as much as it is in your seat.

jessi1
05-10-2005, 11:51 AM
Toad is there a way to turn off just guns in the confini files or is that only in your stick.

DarkBlueMan
05-10-2005, 12:51 PM
I'm flying with a Saitek Evo Force and I love the FF FX. Hurtling down the runway and the stick shakes. Lift off and there will be mild to strong vibration until you raise the gear and flaps. You will also experience vibration in a dive. If you are going fast enough to cause structural damage, you will know about it. If you lose part of a control surface the stick judders!
It is indeed a good indicator of when you are approaching a stall and so you know to ease off the stick.
I have my FF FX set at 60%. Anymore than that and the stick jumps off the table! MG fire at 60% is enough to keep your aim true but still allow a little recoil.
It's also a nice effect when you take hits off the enemy. Anything from a mild judder to a BIG JUDDER!

T_O_A_D
05-10-2005, 04:04 PM
Well I thought it was on this page

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/utilities.htm

But I can't find it. There is a program fedit.exe, to edit your FFB files. Blade and AFJ Mantis have some files over there some where, Plus the fedit.exe utility.

So I looked here
http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm
Scroll down there is a place about the MFFB stick. But no link to those Files or Utility to adjust them.

I know it's there some where, Maybe One of Web admins over there will see this and lead the
way.

You can always go into your Forcefeedback folder in the game, and just back up the original files and delete the Files you don't want, like

machinegun.ffe
autocannon.ffe
Bla Bla

till you get what ya wan't.

Even if you delete them they won't completly go away but it softens them up quite a bit.

If you just can't find them PT me and I can email them too you.

FI-Aflak
05-10-2005, 10:27 PM
I've a Saitek Cyborg 3D Force.

Got it for 5 dollars. Open box + employee discount, couldn't pass it up.

blakduk
05-10-2005, 10:42 PM
ForceFeedback sticks make a big difference to flying the simulator. It allows for a much better intuition re stalls especially.
As far as the sensation of the stick rocking when using cannon, great for immersion but a bugger for aiming

TooCooL34
05-10-2005, 11:00 PM
It's very very good for immersion but not indispensable like TrackIR or rudder pedals.
In addition, MS FFB2 has real forcefeedback feature that its tension varies with speed. Higher the speed, stiffer the tension, vice versa.
IIRC, Saitek provides vibration only, not tension.

DarkBlueMan
05-11-2005, 04:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TooCooL34:
...MS FFB2 has real forcefeedback feature that its tension varies with speed. Higher the speed, stiffer the tension, vice versa.
IIRC, Saitek provides vibration only, not tension. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not true for the Saitek Evo Force TooCool34. A friend of mine has the Saitek Cyborg 3D Force and I know his stick does not have tension in relation to speed but the Evo Force does. For example, if you're parked on the runway motionless, the stick is loose and will not centre. Move the stick it to a position and it will stay there until you manually move it or centre it. However, as soon as you are gaining speed for take-off the stick will start to centre. Once airborne the stick becomes harder to move depending on speed.
I have my overall FFB gain set to 60%. At 100% the stick gets a bit tricky to move at high speed because of the high tension! Knowing the effect of tension in relation to speed I wouldn't get a FFB stick unless it had this feature...

DBM

Flakenstien
05-11-2005, 04:53 AM
Yes, MSFFB2
I turn off the FFB in game (increases frame rates slightly)
But still offers the stiffness and response that I need when flying, such as the ability to know when you are pushing the limits,speed etc.
I think the FFB when firing guns is a little over the top and really does decrease your aiming ability

Bearcat99
05-11-2005, 06:20 AM
What TOAD said.... BTW TOAD did you ever get all that stuff squared away with your stick?

BenvZijl
05-11-2005, 07:24 AM
until 3 days ago i always flew with force feedback sticks, now i got a CH hotas set wich don't have it and i must say i don't miss it. i really need to practice some things but in a week or so i will be good again with my new set

T_O_A_D
05-11-2005, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
What TOAD said.... BTW TOAD did you ever get all that stuff squared away with your stick? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep sure did TY, Little off at center, but flys like a dream compared to how it was.

irR4tiOn4L
05-11-2005, 08:10 PM
sounds cool but im wondering, is it anything like the force feedback on a wheel? (immersion and feel wise, not technologically) I had an FF wheel and was very dissapointed, wondering what to expect here.

Ive pretty much decided im going to forego a HOTAS and go with either a Cyborg Evo for $70 AU or a Cyborg Evo Force for $105 AU.

Is FF worth it?

Does switching off FF allow you to use the joystick the same way as the normal Cyborg? (tension and feel wise)

blakduk
05-11-2005, 08:16 PM
irR4tiOn4L- i assume you were using the wheel for a car game?
If so, then i can understand your disapointment, FF doesnt seem to add anything much to them. With flight simulators however the whole 'feel' for how sluggish and loose the controls are at low speed versus how tight and responsive they are at operational speed adds a lot.

irR4tiOn4L
05-11-2005, 08:36 PM
yes that is unfortunately what i found! Horrid whirring and fighting the wheel really added nothing to Grand Prix Legends at all

Personally the fact that its even being recommended here tells me to expect good things - in the GPL community only the FF wheels with wire based FF were respected, with most still calling it an even split whether youd like it - i was one of those who didnt.

Last thing though; can you switch off the Force Feedback and still have the stick center and move as smoothly as with the normal Cyborg Evo? Do you think FF lowers the reliability of the design?

F16_Sulan
05-11-2005, 10:22 PM
Force feedback is VERY nice!!!

ms ForceFeedback 2 is cheap and good!

I loose forcefeedback in game every once in a while (don´t know why) and I allways **** it up lol...

Force feedback adds to the sensation of flight and helps with stalls and judging of speed. It does´nt add as much to the sim as TrackIR though IMO...

madsarmy
05-12-2005, 02:19 AM
I <span class="ev_code_RED">DO NOT</span> recommend the Thrustmaster Afterburner Force Feedback.
Mine died after about 9 months. The spiking was unbearable even with regular cleaning.

I got a MS FFB2 stick from eBay & it is fantasic.
I was so impressed I bought another for a spare & still thinking of getting another. Just planing for the years aheadhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
bolt a CH Pre Throttle next to this stick & you will be a happy chappy.

Microsoft got it right & stopped making them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

73GIAP_Milan
05-12-2005, 07:30 AM
I don't use Force Feedback sticks or wheels for my own good..

I tend to break them if the stick goes right and i want it to go left for example..
I totaled 2 joysticks and 1 wheel already and all of them were IN A COMPUTERSTORE on tryout stands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

WWTharn
05-12-2005, 07:40 AM
I use FF and yes- the aiming does get tough when you fire cannons- but for sructural integrity in dives/and the'feel' of stalls- it is great to have. I noticed a post about better frame rates when FF is off. Is this true?
S~

TooCooL34
05-12-2005, 03:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWTharn:
I use FF and yes- the aiming does get tough when you fire cannons- but for sructural integrity in dives/and the'feel' of stalls- it is great to have. I noticed a post about better frame rates when FF is off. Is this true?
S~ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not true as long as their PCs are normal.

blue_76
05-12-2005, 07:57 PM
i recently purchased the cyborg evo force and i can't begin to tell you what a difference that makes! i don't know about its reliablity though, since i just bought it.. hope it lasts..
now, if they only had forcefeedback rudder pedals as well! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

LuckyBoy1
05-12-2005, 08:11 PM
My first PC joystick was a Logitec Wingman Farce feedback stick. Having over 1,200 hours in stick controled real planes I found the Farce Feedback to be unnatural at best, but basically, that's me and my experience shaped by my knowledge. Sometimes, ignorance can be bliss and if it ads to your enjoyment and "feeling" of realism, I'd go for it maybe and would not look down on anyone who did. Unfortuantely, real world experience put an end to that John Wayne kinda having the stick bounce this way and that when you pulled the trigger sort of thing. Think about it, when they pushed that button, they were pressing on an electric switch. How much vibration do you get from an electric switch? If you answered anything more than none, I'd not use that switch until an electrician can get in and fix it.

blue_76
05-12-2005, 09:43 PM
well, though i agree that the vibration is not that realistic in terms of what you feel with a real stick and a simulated one.. i think the resistance part of it is at least striving to achieve realism.. we are, far from achieving actual realism, but that is why its called a simulation.. just like IL2, the joystick attempts to recreate reality. there will always be things that fall short, but the important thing is each time it gets closer to actual realism and thats whats important.

LuckyBoy1
05-12-2005, 09:50 PM
Right blue, so don't let what I said put you off of the idea of a force feedback stick. Man, if you enjoy it and it adds to your fun, then you got no apologies or explainations to make to anyone! The main point I'm trying to make here is that there really isn't a wrong answer when it comes to...

Should I get a force feedback stick?

irR4tiOn4L
05-13-2005, 05:24 AM
oh no i fully respect and agree with that - i learnt the hard way with my force feedback wheel. Driving with force feedback felt unnatural and nothing like real cars.

I am very grateful for all the advice. Its quite possible that i would like FF in a joystick, but given my previous FF wheel experience, i have to conclude that an FF joystick would feel unnatural to me as well - technology has not yet evolved to create a smooth, subtle and seamless effect.

Thanks all, im getting a new Cyborg Evo! Hooray! no more wheel aiming.

irR4tiOn4L
05-13-2005, 05:49 AM
on this subject however...

here is a quote from
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html

"The brown leather gloved index finger closes firmly around the red firing trigger and the control column shakes violently in his right hand. The cockpit immediately fills with the acrid smell of cordite as more than thirty pounds of steel per second of 7.9 mm machine gun and 20 mm cannon shells hurtle toward the Hurricane in beautiful yellow colored tracer arcs"

It seems that the aeorodynamic reaction to firing the guns (ie the shaking of the airplane we see in the sim) is what is being modelled - however, delay in the Force Feedback and the seperation of the ingame and stick reaction probably make them feel as seperate effects.