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View Full Version : FW-190 Wing Damage...grrrrrrr!!!



Ratsack
03-23-2005, 06:50 AM
I know this has been raised before, but in my view its seriousness warrants a thread of its own. What is it, exactly, with the wings of the Wurger? It seems to me that this otherwise superb plane has glass wings. I€ve noticed that €" online and off €" a handful of hits from the dreaded 50 cal, or even 0.303, and suddenly I€ve got major uncommanded roll and a big speed hit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Damage does not seem to be modelled this way on the other planes, LW or otherwise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif What gives? Can anyone think of a decent way to document this?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

WOLFMondo
03-23-2005, 06:59 AM
Wing damage is a pain in the butt for all planes just that the FW190 doesn't have trim the pilot can control like some other planes so its even more of a pain the in butt!

Ironically the Spitfire is the same, no aileron trim but its roll rate is less to its less annoying when you take wing damage.

Try driving a P47 with half a dozen hits to your wing, massive speed and stability loss but some aileron trim sorts it out, at least makes the plane stable again.

Ratsack
03-23-2005, 07:04 AM
Nope, different effect on the P47. I've flown that and the Spit a lot (I don't fly Ponies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

The difference is the magnitude of the change from a handful of hits. I find the Wurger to be far worse than the Jug.

But in any case, you raising the issue of the Jug actually highlights my question: can anybody think of a way to document this sort of thing objectively?


Ratsack

Jetbuff
03-23-2005, 07:09 AM
I hear you. Best explanation I got was from RAF74_Jazzman. (iirc) Here's the jist of what I understood:

All planes get the same effect on the FM from wing damage. It is applied via enhancing roll-rate/ roll-tendency of the plane towards the damaged wing. Unfortuantely the way this effect is applied seems to result in planes with higher roll-rates suffering more from equal damage to the wings than lower roll-rate planes. In addition, countering this roll tendency is easier on low roll-rate planes because of more leeway when providing counter-roll joystick inputs on those as they are less sensitive around their roll axes.

tigertalon
03-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Well

first thing IMO is to talk about Fw and Yak winghits paralelly, since both suffer from them in somewhat same way.

Their wings are indeed VERY prone to hits. I cannot agree with RAF74_Jazzman, because same effect happens to yak as well, and yak does not have superior roll rate (it is good, but many fighters have it just as good and do not suffer from wing hits).

Other thing is wing hits on Fw190 result in gigantic lift loss, like on yak. And this has no connection with roll rate. When hit, you have to aply elevator realy realy carefully (and offset with contra-roll), otherwise damaged wing looses lift and AC rolls violently towards damaged wing. Like you just lost it!

IMO it should be repared as it is not fair as it is now, I can see no reason why would lift loss be so stronger on Fw and Yak, compared to others.

In other words, I consider myself lost whenever hit in Fw190.
If it is not winghit, it is fuel leak that dooms me.
If it is not fuel leak, it is speed loss so everyone can catch up on me with ease.
If it is not fuel leak, it is a torch.
If it is not a torch, it is PK.

So, let's hope.

VW-IceFire
03-23-2005, 08:20 AM
Yep, all Yak variants and the FW190 variants have it. Its not limited to just one plane.

I wonder if it has to do with the size of the wing and the life generated by it. Spitfires and Thunderbolts have less of a problem because they have huge wings with theoretically more lift coming from them (even if weight is supposed to make up the difference). What if the DM/FM model isn't 100% aware of these things?

JG54_Arnie
03-23-2005, 08:42 AM
Winghit in FW and yak == RTB.

And landing with them isnt easy either, if you're not carefull with them at low speed you spin out and crash.

Jetbuff
03-23-2005, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigertalon:
Well

first thing IMO is to talk about Fw and Yak winghits paralelly, since both suffer from them in somewhat same way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't comment on the yak as I don't fly them often. In fact, I think I've flown all the yak variants maybe 10 times combined since the original IL-2 demo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Their wings are indeed VERY prone to hits. I cannot agree with RAF74_Jazzman, because same effect happens to yak as well, and yak does not have superior roll rate (it is good, but many fighters have it just as good and do not suffer from wing hits). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The explanation held a lot of logic up until you introduced yaks into the equation. I had no idea they had the same problem. If they do, then yes, the high roll-rate on it's own would not sufficiently explain the phenomenon.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In other words, I consider myself lost whenever hit in Fw190.
If it is not winghit, it is fuel leak that dooms me.
If it is not fuel leak, it is speed loss so everyone can catch up on me with ease.
If it is not fuel leak, it is a torch.
If it is not a torch, it is PK. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now you're scaring me... that's almost word for word my opening post on this topic when Jazz gave the explanation I mentioned above. It is indeed very frustrating that the slightest scratch anywhere on the 190 will result in sortie-ending damage 99% of the time. What makes it worse is that this is supposedly a heavily armoured plane compared to most other fighters. It sure flies like it's carrying the weight of that extra armour though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

robban75
03-23-2005, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
All planes get the same effect on the FM from wing damage. It is applied via enhancing roll-rate/ roll-tendency of the plane towards the damaged wing. Unfortuantely the way this effect is applied seems to result in planes with higher roll-rates suffering more from equal damage to the wings than lower roll-rate planes. In addition, countering this roll tendency is easier on low roll-rate planes because of more leeway when providing counter-roll joystick inputs on those as they are less sensitive around their roll axes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just some in-game rollrate comparisons. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The time is the average of 4 rolls.

Time in seconds. The number after the / is with the aid of rudder.


Fw 190A-4 - 2:10/1:90

P-40C ----- 2:20/1:99

Yak-3 ----- 2:25/2:05

La-7 ------ 2:50/2:15

Yak-9U ---- 2:55/2:30

Bf 109K-4 - 2:70/2:20

Bf 109G-2 - 2:80/2:44

La-5FN ---- 3:15/2:95

P-47D ----- 3:15/2:85

P-51D ----- 3:20/2:80

Jetbuff
03-23-2005, 10:20 AM
robban, you wouldn't happen to have more roll-rate numbers? If all the planes that have a high roll-rate suffer from the same problem then Jazz's explanation may hold more water than we thought.

faustnik
03-23-2005, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
Winghit in FW and yak == RTB.

And landing with them isnt easy either, if you're not carefull with them at low speed you spin out and crash. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arnie,

You hit the nail on the head by mentioning speed on this one. With a damaged wing in the Fw190, you have to keep landing speed very high, that's the secret.

p1ngu666
03-23-2005, 11:16 AM
with damaged wing on 190 u wobble about, but a yak can big damage and u just roll and dive into the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

id say il2,109,lagg la7,spit,p47 have easiest damage. aloto of planes lose speed when hit, even the il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

robban75
03-23-2005, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
robban, you wouldn't happen to have more roll-rate numbers? If all the planes that have a high roll-rate suffer from the same problem then Jazz's explanation may hold more water than we thought. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the Spitfire Vb and MkVIII also.

Spitfire MkVb --- 2:95/2:40
Spitfire MkVIII - 3:40/2:40

Who said the Spitfire was a poor roller?

I hope Oleg plan to fix the exaggerated rollrates displayed by most fighters in this game.

LeadSpitter_
03-23-2005, 02:46 PM
All planes have it, It effects loss of speed equally on all ac, just the b239 f2a wildcat p40 yak ki84 biplanes i16 and other fast rolling ac its noticed more especially with 100 inputs on controls and those with no trim, but you would know that if you flew all aircraft.

This is exactly why people are dubbed L-whiners they complain about only one or 2 ac they fly and these are the same people who will not play the game if their beloved 190 or 109 is not in the planeset and will never realize it happens to all in game.

Wings snapping off the 51 is the same deal for the allied pilots which happens to most ac now high speed with full elevator deflection from g's. But before it just happened to the one.

Just an example people complain so much about the 109 elevator but high speed its very effective and can pop off your wing from high g's, Ive never popped off the wing of a spit or p38 yak becuase thier elevators freeze up much earlier then the 109.

Robban I couldnt agree with you more about the rollrates, especially snap rolls.

I wish we could do torque rolls, who knows maybe in bob's new fms http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-23-2005, 03:00 PM
What about wingdesign? Like the laminar-flow wing of the P-51? It was absolutly essential that the P-51 wing was very smooth, I know that. Some relative small damage can have large effects on aerodynamics. Does the Fw-190 have a similar wingdesign?

GUARD4000
03-23-2005, 03:24 PM
robban,the rollrates are different at different speed.Are those time u showed the shortest times?Just interested.

Leadspitter,the wing problem on P51 is quite special.I always lose the wing before I start to black out,which means that the G is not high.And infact i was always pulling the stick very gentle.But it is real hard to lose a wing when flying P47 or FW190.I dont know what it is like in RL,but it is quite strange that a AC with a topspeed at 703km/h can lose a wing with a gentle pull at 650km/h.

Von_Rat
03-23-2005, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
All planes have it, It effects loss of speed equally on all ac, just the b239 f2a wildcat p40 yak ki84 biplanes i16 and other fast rolling ac its noticed more especially with 100 inputs on controls and those with no trim, but you would know that if you flew all aircraft.

This is exactly why people are dubbed L-whiners they complain about only one or 2 ac they fly and these are the same people who will not play the game if their beloved 190 or 109 is not in the planeset and will never realize it happens to all in game.

Wings snapping off the 51 is the same deal for the allied pilots which happens to most ac now high speed with full elevator deflection from g's. But before it just happened to the one.

Just an example people complain so much about the 109 elevator but high speed its very effective and can pop off your wing from high g's, Ive never popped off the wing of a spit or p38 yak becuase thier elevators freeze up much earlier then the 109.

Robban I couldnt agree with you more about the rollrates, especially snap rolls.

I wish we could do torque rolls, who knows maybe in bob's new fms http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i haven't ever accidentally poped wings off a late 109, by pulling g's. i guess its possiable if you have screwy joystick settings, and are going extrmely fast. with correct settings, no way.

try correcting your aim with 109s elevator at hi speed, at any joystick setting, then come back here and tell me how effective 109s elevator is.

been flying p51 alot lately, and before that the spit, i haven't notice no huge speed loss from just a few wing hits.

as for wings snapping off p51, again adjust your joystick, i have a setting just for p51, only lost a wing once, and that may of been from damage.

GUARD4000
03-23-2005, 04:11 PM
Von-Rat,can u share your joystick settings.I will appreciate.The wing problem bothers me a lot.

LeadSpitter_
03-23-2005, 04:21 PM
I did vonrat and I have showed the k4s elevator at 890kmph how effective it without any trim and with trim is compaired to the spit yak and planes which wont even reach that speed. I also showed even how its still extremely effective missing one alieron and one elevator tab at which breaks off at 900kmph ias. and is still responsive enough to rip with wing off from fast deflection moves.

Go try it out and come back and appologize vonrat.

Remember in orr i posted the track you were in there along with many others kurfurst started the thread i believe and the majority dont even download or look at the track.

Or what about the people whining about the strenght of the p47 being to strong taking up to 25 20mm hits and I showed the track which it takes 4 hits to the tail to rip it off or one engine hit! with the 109g2 firing 1 shot cannon only!

Im tired of taking the time proving you guys wrong and nothing gets accomplished and even with tracks the message does not sink thru your mindset german ac should all be these supermanueverable science fiction ufo ac with 108s cannons being the best weapon for dogfighting firing from .50 range with one burst explosions and you guys still complain it should be more accurate!, only the shvak is more effective longer ranges another anti bomber anti tank cannon which was not the best weapon for dogfighting in reality.

oleg should never ever listen to you guys again EVER! but robban75 he should whos very crediable, only things i couldnt match was some of his speed tests on crimea with allied ac in which he showed screen shots of the max speeds and not tracks, Some of the german ac i achieved 10-30 faster then his max speeds and allied ac 20-30 slower then his tests which i think were from a different version then 3.04 but everything else he tested im able to get the same numbers.

Von_Rat
03-23-2005, 04:21 PM
sure guard, first do you have a ch fighter stick. what i do is leave in game settings to default for pitch, 100 percent for roll yaw. then i joined all my controlers into one big controller using ch software. then for just the p51 i leave default curve on pitch in ch software. its a gentle curve like default in game settings. in effect i have my pitch control smoothed out twice, once by joystick software, once by game. it takes a little getting used to, because your pitch intial inputs will be slower than your used to. but once you get used to it, you'll find that you'll almost never lose a wing on p51, even if your hamfisted like myself. another plus of having slow intial inputs is also your less likely to bleed e by pulling stick to hard.

btw with other planes i leave settings in game at 100,for all. then just use default curve in ch software.

GUARD4000
03-23-2005, 04:29 PM
I dont have a ch stick,using X52 right now.But I understand what u are doing:
roll:100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
yaw:100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
pitch:1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100

Am I right?

Von_Rat
03-23-2005, 04:35 PM
leadspitter ripping wings off at terminal speed is meaningless, try using realistic joystick settings and then try ripping wings off at lower speed. i'll admit with your regular settings it may be possiable if you try on purpose. i stand by my statment , that ive never ripped wings off late 09 just by pulling g's. by diving to fast and reaching terminal speed, yes, (which is what you did, i think), by just manuvering, no.

also were you able to use elevator to aim at those speeds, or even much lower speeds, thats the big beef you know.

as far as apologizing,,, on a related topic whats the weather like in hell today, cold or feezing over maybe. lol

Von_Rat
03-23-2005, 04:42 PM
guard, i don't really know how to explain it in other joystick terms. all i can say is set in game settings to 100 for yaw roll, then for pitch use default setting.

then play with your x52 pitch curve until you get a setting where your intail inputs are small. if it feels to sloppy to you its probaly close to what i use. like i said it'll take a little getting used to.

p1ngu666
03-23-2005, 04:49 PM
think 109 has surprisingly good ential elivator to start with, then gets solid, and its the ential part where u will break wings in 90% of cases.

i use default settings for all axis.

also had wing snap off in a high speed turn, but i was already turning for awhile, not near breakup speed either. wasnt tighting the turn or near blackout so i dunno http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Von_Rat
03-23-2005, 04:54 PM
was it a late war 109 pingu666, ive snapped wings turning in g6s and earlier.

anyway being able to snap off wings if your really trying to is meaningless. it doesn't really say anything about being able to use the 109s elevator for aiming at hi speed. which is my big beef. i give a rats a$$ if its possiable to snap wings or not.,, not aimed at you pingu666.

GUARD4000
03-23-2005, 04:57 PM
Von-Rat,I just tried new setting.It works. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifI cant lose a wing at 850-Km/h. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifThanks a lot.

Von_Rat
03-23-2005, 05:03 PM
glad to help. let me know how it works out, give yourself some time to adjust to the intial sloppyness. you my want to tighting settings up some, but be aware it'll increase risk of wing loss.

also do some low speed testing to be sure your getting full deflection with elevator.

p1ngu666
03-23-2005, 05:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
was it a late war 109 pingu666, ive snapped wings turning in g6s and earlier.

anyway being able to snap off wings if your really trying to is meaningless. it doesn't really say anything about being able to use the 109s elevator for aiming at hi speed. which is my big beef. i give a rats a$$ if its possiable to snap wings or not.,, not aimed at you pingu666. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

think it was a late war, k4 probably, if u just yank back stick u may see it, goes well then its in treacle.

last time i broke the wings on a p51 i jerked stick to dodge a 190 that was coming at me ahead from the right, i was going pretty quick and because i jerked the stick quickly, i snapped my wings. its a pain because 15g is the limit, but most things can sustain massive loads for very short amount of time.

Ratsack
03-23-2005, 05:43 PM
Leadspitter et al.

You're miles off topic. I'm not talking about elevators on 109s, or wings coming off your favourite bird. The issue is damage modelling for the wings on the FW-190.

Some people have suggested it may be a consequence of the way high roll rate is modelled: that's a useful observation. Your cr@p about whiners is not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif I normally agree with your observations about some people wanting the German planes to be uber, but that is not what this thread is about, so if you've got nothing to contribute, please feel free to p1ss off. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To the room at large, can anyone think of a precise way to apply specific damage to these planes (i.e., get a couple 0.50 or 0.303 rounds into the wing a Wurger and a P47), so we can test the theory?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

PS - LS, I fly a wide variety of planes in this sim. I just don't fly ponies. Too easy.

Jetbuff
03-23-2005, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
I have the Spitfire Vb and MkVIII also.

Spitfire MkVb --- 2:95/2:40
Spitfire MkVIII - 3:40/2:40 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Too middle of the road to help pin-point the problem. I haven't flown the P-40C but regularly fly the other P-40 models particularly the E and although it doesn't jump out at me, I'm pretty sure it suffers from the same problem as the 190 to a certain extent. Hit in the wing = flopping fish. I'll keep your numbers in mind whenever flying any of these planes and compare wing-damage effects - yeah I get hit A LOT! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I hope Oleg plan to fix the exaggerated rollrates displayed by most fighters in this game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amen to that. Although the relative roll-rates appear to be more or less OK, I never could shake the feeling that planes could never have been this twitchy. Not being a true grognard though I wasn't about to go dig up sources on every plane's roll-rate to support that feeling. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
03-23-2005, 08:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jetbuff:
robban, you wouldn't happen to have more roll-rate numbers? If all the planes that have a high roll-rate suffer from the same problem then Jazz's explanation may hold more water than we thought. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the Spitfire Vb and MkVIII also.

Spitfire MkVb --- 2:95/2:40
Spitfire MkVIII - 3:40/2:40

Who said the Spitfire was a poor roller?

I hope Oleg plan to fix the exaggerated rollrates displayed by most fighters in this game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You did know that the roll rates change with speed yesno? Because the Spitfire's roll rate at high speed is terrible. Thats when the FW190s superior roll rate comes into play...in a huge way. Also, are those clipped or non clipped. Clipped wing Spitfires roll a bit better...enough to make up the difference in close combat with a FW190. Depends on the speed. But if you only fly a FW190 (I really don't know) then this is less apparent because its roll rate changes so little across the speed spectrum.

PBNA-Boosher
03-23-2005, 09:40 PM
one thing to mention with the yak. ONe wing is longer than the other to counter torque.

JadehawkII
03-23-2005, 10:24 PM
Having flown the F4U1C and getting some damage in my wings, I can say it gets really easy for the plane wanting to roll over toward the damaged area more so than my usual mount, the La-7. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Flying in the Corsair, I remember getting shot in my wing once by a George and while I could stay flying straight, trying to make turns was really risky and ultimately I ended up crashing in the ocean from a wing over due to trying to turn. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif
Currently I'm spending my time with the F4U1C, P-51D and P-40B. P-40B seems to be more managable than the F4U1C is damage wise. P-51D to me seems between the P-40B and F4U1C. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Flown the FW-190A8 once, got shot in the wing and could not control it at all, Bailed out and watched the AIs shoot at each other while I floated down for 8 min. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif Good plane for climbing, turning, shooting, bad plane for getting hit in though! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

robban75
03-23-2005, 11:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GUARD4000:
robban,the rollrates are different at different speed.Are those time u showed the shortest times?Just interested.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, those are best possible rollrates, most of them are at similar speeds, around 300-400km/h. IIRC the Mustang gets its peek rollrate at around 550-570km/h.

robban75
03-23-2005, 11:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
You did know that the roll rates change with speed yesno? Because the Spitfire's roll rate at high speed is terrible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I do, and yes at high speed the Spit roll rate is terrible. The VIII roll rate in-game correlates quite well with the NACA roll chart. I'm just surprised that rudder input had such a huge effect on the Spitfire roll. For the Fw 190 all it does is take away .2 seconds for a full roll. On the Spit VIII a full second. No other plane in the game has such a dramatic increase in roll rate. Correct or not? I guess we'll never know.

Ratsack
03-24-2005, 04:29 AM
Well? Bump.

People are saying it's the same on all planes, but on the planes with the best roll rate, the effect is enhanced, causing the problem in the FW-190. O.K., I don't agree, but how can we test this objectively?

Ratsack

tigertalon
03-24-2005, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ratsack:
Well? Bump.

People are saying it's the same on all planes, but on the planes with the best roll rate, the effect is enhanced, causing the problem in the FW-190. O.K., I don't agree, but how can we test this objectively?

Ratsack <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hm

I don't know if biplanes count in... They all have trememdous roll rate, and none of them suffers so much from wing hits.

Also if we take a look at list on page 1, P40C is almost as good roller as Fw190. I never had big problems when flying it with winghit, but I don't fly it often, so somebody else? And, do we have some other fighters that roll well? B239 maybe? (pitty I'm in offcie, otherwise I would set up qmb and test them all up right now... Hm, maybe I can do it, in this same building they sell PF, and also joysticks. You think my boss, sitting 2 meters away, will notice it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

jessi1
03-24-2005, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
sure guard, first do you have a ch fighter stick. what i do is leave in game settings to default for pitch, 100 percent for roll yaw. then i joined all my controlers into one big controller using ch software. then for just the p51 i leave default curve on pitch in ch software. its a gentle curve like default in game settings. in effect i have my pitch control smoothed out twice, once by joystick software, once by game. it takes a little getting used to, because your pitch intial inputs will be slower than your used to. but once you get used to it, you'll find that you'll almost never lose a wing on p51, even if your hamfisted like myself. another plus of having slow intial inputs is also your less likely to bleed e by pulling stick to hard.

btw with other planes i leave settings in game at 100,for all. then just use default curve in ch software. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>RAT DO YOU HAVE TO TURN ON A BUTTON TO SWITCH ON THE CH SOFTWARE WHEN PLAYING THE GAME, I HAVE A CH FIGHTERSTICK USB AND I HAVENT GOTTEN AROUND TO USING IT YET.WAS WONDERING WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO SET IT UP,IT HAS A LENGHTY INSTRUCTIONS AND IM A BIT LAZY TO READ THE WHOLE THING,CAN YOU TELL ME A SIMPLER WAY TO QUICKLY SET IT UP,ALSO DO YOU HAVE TO ADJUST THE SENSITIVITY OF THE ELEVATOR TRIM ROTARY SLIDE BECAUSE WHEN I USED IT IT WAS WAY TO SENSETIVE ANYN HELP WOULD BE GREATYLY APPRECIATIVE. THANKS IN ADVANCE

VW-IceFire
03-24-2005, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
You did know that the roll rates change with speed yesno? Because the Spitfire's roll rate at high speed is terrible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I do, and yes at high speed the Spit roll rate is terrible. The VIII roll rate in-game correlates quite well with the NACA roll chart. I'm just surprised that rudder input had such a huge effect on the Spitfire roll. For the Fw 190 all it does is take away .2 seconds for a full roll. On the Spit VIII a full second. No other plane in the game has such a dramatic increase in roll rate. Correct or not? I guess we'll never know. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do the Yak's not also gain this advantage? I can see the FW190 not getting much of an advantage with rudder...as roll rate is already superb. Not sure how much better it could be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

robban75
03-24-2005, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Do the Yak's not also gain this advantage? I can see the FW190 not getting much of an advantage with rudder...as roll rate is already superb. Not sure how much better it could be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Yak-3 gains .2 seconds, just like the Fw 190, and the Yak-9U gains .25 seconds. The Spitfires rudder has a unique input on roll rate compared to other planes. Oh, I forgot, those roll rates are for the standard wing Spit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The Fw 190 roll rate is too fast. It's rapid roll acceleration really doesn't help it at all IMO. Unfortunately most planes in the game can match the 190's roll rate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif The only difference is that the 190 needs very little aileron input to achieve 170/180 deg/sec. while other fighters need a larger joystick input to achieve the same roll rate.

FatBoyHK
03-24-2005, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GUARD4000:
Von-Rat,I just tried new setting.It works. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gifI cant lose a wing at 850-Km/h. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifThanks a lot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But with this setting, which has slower response, you will have a hard time doing dogfight... I know it because I tried that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GUARD4000
03-24-2005, 11:56 AM
FatboyHK,thx for your advice.But if I lose a wing,I cant bail out at that speed and will die.If I lose a dogfight,I still can dive away.And I tried the new setting offline and online,didnt have much trouble in a dogfight(not a pure turnfight).

Btw I changed my gun convergence to 150m yesterday and opened fire only when the bandits were close.It worked great when engaging 109s,because they always give me a chance to shoot in close range(most 190s dive away when they find out things are going wrong).But I had a real bad time when engaging bombers.I guess I wont have the ability to shoot down a he111 in one pass anymore.But who cares?Mustang is never a good interceptor.

Ratsack
03-24-2005, 01:52 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif

Take the pony discussion elsewhere, please. There's no shortage of pony talk, especially in the 109 threads. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

Ratsack
03-24-2005, 01:58 PM
tt

I think the only way this is going to be resolved is if I take it on line with some good marksmen, and take the tracks.

Thanks for your input.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

Von_Rat
03-24-2005, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jessi1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
sure guard, first do you have a ch fighter stick. what i do is leave in game settings to default for pitch, 100 percent for roll yaw. then i joined all my controlers into one big controller using ch software. then for just the p51 i leave default curve on pitch in ch software. its a gentle curve like default in game settings. in effect i have my pitch control smoothed out twice, once by joystick software, once by game. it takes a little getting used to, because your pitch intial inputs will be slower than your used to. but once you get used to it, you'll find that you'll almost never lose a wing on p51, even if your hamfisted like myself. another plus of having slow intial inputs is also your less likely to bleed e by pulling stick to hard.

btw with other planes i leave settings in game at 100,for all. then just use default curve in ch software. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>RAT DO YOU HAVE TO TURN ON A BUTTON TO SWITCH ON THE CH SOFTWARE WHEN PLAYING THE GAME, I HAVE A CH FIGHTERSTICK USB AND I HAVENT GOTTEN AROUND TO USING IT YET.WAS WONDERING WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO SET IT UP,IT HAS A LENGHTY INSTRUCTIONS AND IM A BIT LAZY TO READ THE WHOLE THING,CAN YOU TELL ME A SIMPLER WAY TO QUICKLY SET IT UP,ALSO DO YOU HAVE TO ADJUST THE SENSITIVITY OF THE ELEVATOR TRIM ROTARY SLIDE BECAUSE WHEN I USED IT IT WAS WAY TO SENSETIVE ANYN HELP WOULD BE GREATYLY APPRECIATIVE. THANKS IN ADVANCE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you don't have it installed, you better follow the installation instructions that come with it, cant remember them off hand, but i know you can mess up if you don't install it correctly. do you have ch pedals too. if so after everything is installed, use map wizard to create a new map, then combine all your ch controllers into one controller, by following the instructions, i dont use cms. then click on download, this will load the map. then click on tabs for controller you wanna adjust, and yes you can adjust elevator trim on a slider. adjust it the same way you would your pitch, by changing the curve. anyway when your done doing your adjustments,click download again, then click on test to test them, then close and save map.

if you want ch map to always be loaded, open the ch products folder in program files, copy the file cms start, and paste it into the startup folder buried deep within, in my case anyway, documents and settings. this will load map when you start computer, so you don't have to bother doing it every time.

since you have mapped your controllers into one, you have to open game and reassign most buttons. because you now have one contoller not mutiple ones.

hope this helps. im really a novice at this myself.

Ratsack
03-28-2005, 06:57 PM
Shameless bump!

Yes, I'm sick of taking a couple of 0.50 hits to a wing and having the thing fly like the wing's been taken off.

Who will help me document this effect?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

PS - Pony whiners can go and hijack a 109 thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

JG54_Arnie
03-29-2005, 12:10 AM
I'd be happy to help, when do you have time? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hristos
03-29-2005, 12:16 AM
Wow, do we get a real test ? Thank you !

Keep us updated, guys, many count on you now.

Ratsack
03-29-2005, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
I'd be happy to help, when do you have time? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PM me and we'll set it up. Appreciate the help. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

jessi1
03-29-2005, 05:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jessi1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Rat:
sure guard, first do you have a ch fighter stick. what i do is leave in game settings to default for pitch, 100 percent for roll yaw. then i joined all my controlers into one big controller using ch software. then for just the p51 i leave default curve on pitch in ch software. its a gentle curve like default in game settings. in effect i have my pitch control smoothed out twice, once by joystick software, once by game. it takes a little getting used to, because your pitch intial inputs will be slower than your used to. but once you get used to it, you'll find that you'll almost never lose a wing on p51, even if your hamfisted like myself. another plus of having slow intial inputs is also your less likely to bleed e by pulling stick to hard.

btw with other planes i leave settings in game at 100,for all. then just use default curve in ch software. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>RAT DO YOU HAVE TO TURN ON A BUTTON TO SWITCH ON THE CH SOFTWARE WHEN PLAYING THE GAME, I HAVE A CH FIGHTERSTICK USB AND I HAVENT GOTTEN AROUND TO USING IT YET.WAS WONDERING WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO SET IT UP,IT HAS A LENGHTY INSTRUCTIONS AND IM A BIT LAZY TO READ THE WHOLE THING,CAN YOU TELL ME A SIMPLER WAY TO QUICKLY SET IT UP,ALSO DO YOU HAVE TO ADJUST THE SENSITIVITY OF THE ELEVATOR TRIM ROTARY SLIDE BECAUSE WHEN I USED IT IT WAS WAY TO SENSETIVE ANYN HELP WOULD BE GREATYLY APPRECIATIVE. THANKS IN ADVANCE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you don't have it installed, you better follow the installation instructions that come with it, cant remember them off hand, but i know you can mess up if you don't install it correctly. do you have ch pedals too. if so after everything is installed, use map wizard to create a new map, then combine all your ch controllers into one controller, by following the instructions, i dont use cms. then click on download, this will load the map. then click on tabs for controller you wanna adjust, and yes you can adjust elevator trim on a slider. adjust it the same way you would your pitch, by changing the curve. anyway when your done doing your adjustments,click download again, then click on test to test them, then close and save map.

if you want ch map to always be loaded, open the ch products folder in program files, copy the file cms start, and paste it into the startup folder buried deep within, in my case anyway, documents and settings. this will load map when you start computer, so you don't have to bother doing it every time.

since you have mapped your controllers into one, you have to open game and reassign most buttons. because you now have one contoller not mutiple ones.

hope this helps. im really a novice at this myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks von rat that will help me alot. Do i set my elevator trim to be less sensetive is that what u mean.I will try it out later tonight.