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Bronzefist
05-22-2005, 10:03 PM
So I played on a full realism server the other day. Everything seems to be going fine as I take off without incident. I decide to press "M" and check my map to see where I am heading and..wtf! My plane icon is missing from the map! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I asked a few people in the server how am I supposed to navigate and they said use the compass and the map. Ummmm I couldnt find any resemblance of a compass in my plane (B329 I think, it was a 1939 axis plane) and even if I DO find a compass how can I tell wha grid I am in. The server briefing gave instructions to destroy/protect targest at different grids so after not getting a decent explanation of how to do this I got frustrated and left.

Someone please help me out or point me in the correct direction. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bronzefist
05-22-2005, 10:03 PM
So I played on a full realism server the other day. Everything seems to be going fine as I take off without incident. I decide to press "M" and check my map to see where I am heading and..wtf! My plane icon is missing from the map! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I asked a few people in the server how am I supposed to navigate and they said use the compass and the map. Ummmm I couldnt find any resemblance of a compass in my plane (B329 I think, it was a 1939 axis plane) and even if I DO find a compass how can I tell wha grid I am in. The server briefing gave instructions to destroy/protect targest at different grids so after not getting a decent explanation of how to do this I got frustrated and left.

Someone please help me out or point me in the correct direction. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AerialTarget
05-22-2005, 10:13 PM
I had the same problem in Operation Flashpoint and in this game. The fact is that I'm still not too great at navigating in this game.

In order to find out where you are, first you need your compass. What I do is I only fly a single plane, and I know where its compass is. It's too difficult to try to fly many planes at once and keep track of their instruments and handling characteristics. Real pilots didn't do this as a general rule.

Now, when you know what direction you are facing, you can begin to look around you and observe the shapes of forests and lakes and such. It's almost like a puzzle, only less annoying. You try to see which items on the map look like that forest. For example, I found myself quite lost after a long fight the other day. I looked down and saw a conveniently odd clearing at the edge of a forest. I looked at my map (I knew I wasn't too far away from a certain airfield) and found a forest on the map with the same markings.

Of course, it won't always be that easy. But then, it wasn't in real life, either. I think we can all be glad that our liberty and our lives are not hostage to our navigation skills, as often was the case in the real war. Getting lost could be quite as disastrous as getting shot down.

Atomic_Marten
05-22-2005, 11:39 PM
First you *must* be very familiar to your cockpit in order to read most important stuff, *fuel level*, heading, *speed* etc.

But if you want to see your heading it is those red numbers on the left low corner in your screen. Even with "Realistic" mode on these will stay. And give you your correct heading.

To familiarize yourself with cockpit of your favourite airplane visit this (http://free-st.htnet.hr/dvd/) link.

Other tip, you must rely on your map knowledge *a lot*. That means if the map is larger therefore is harder (usually) to fly on full real, you can get lost easier. Pay close attn to landmarks and stuff and fly in group with other fighters/bombers.(airfields cities etc. - that's the best way to not get lost http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

AerialTarget
05-23-2005, 01:17 AM
You can fly without the red numbers. Personally, I don't see anything unrealistic about them, as in real life you can read your gauges much easier than in the game. Think about looking at your car's airspeed indi... er, speedometer. It's easy.

Unfortunately, Oleg has handicapped us Americans and everyone else who uses imperial units or flies real or virtual airplanes that do, as the red numbers are in metric only. Therefore, I fly with them off. I am lucky; my airplane of choice has a fairly large and conveniently placed airspeed indicator. I do have to zoom in to see my compass, though.

x6BL_Brando
05-23-2005, 02:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oleg has handicapped us Americans and everyone else who uses imperial units or flies real or virtual airplanes that do, as the red numbers are in metric only </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice little rumour you have there. Wrong though - read the manual and then set a key to toggle through the speedbar settings....you'll find Kph, KIAS and Mph are available http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

JunkoIfurita
05-23-2005, 02:47 AM
Bronzefist,

The handiest thing about navigation in IL2/PF is that, even if map icons, map path and speed bar are off, your plane DOES still show up as an icon on the map.

But, unlike playing with map icons on, the map doesn't automatically centre on your plane icon when you hit the map key. So you have to keep track of your position and drag the map to show your plane.

Seeing as though it's not THAT easy to fly by landmarks in a virtual (and therefore, slightly repetitive) environment, this is a necessary feature.

It IS possible to navigate entirely without the map, but only if you keep track of yourself at all times. Get lost, and you'll have a hard time finding yourself again :-P

There are another couple of handy features if you're playing offline or co-op missions, too. Radio your home base (Tab, 8), then you get an option of 'vector to home' or 'vector to target' which allows you to follow a vector in the general direction of your choice. Do this quite a few times, though, because as you get closer the vector will change.

The reason the compass vector is always at the bottom left of the screen, even with Speedbar set to off is because quite a few of the planes have their compasses in the middle of the gauge plate - directly behind the stick or yoke. So to read your heading, you have to push the stick to the side, initiating a roll!

We don't have quite the three dimensional freedom a real hurricane pilot would, for example. He could peer over his stick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AerialTarget
05-23-2005, 04:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
read the manual and then set a key to toggle through the speedbar settings....you'll find Kph, KIAS and Mph are available </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Marry me!

Say, I must apologize to Oleg for that remark. By the way, Junkoifurita, I am able to have no red text at all, not even the compass. I turned off speed bar in the realism options.

Flakenstien
05-23-2005, 04:13 AM
"The handiest thing about navigation in IL2/PF is that, even if map icons, map path and speed bar are off, your plane DOES still show up as an icon on the map."

No it doesn't.

Navigating is difficult, due to the fact you can't resize your on screen map, and depending on what zoom level on the map even if you take off and know where you are it doesn't take much to lose your visual position on the map, which in turn means you moving your map all over trying to find those identifing landmarks you see below. This is time you should be watching around you, a resizeable map window would be nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I have solved this problem by printing off hard copies of all the maps in game, I then place them in clear plastic "sheet protectors" (which you can get at office supply stores) in these protective sheets you can than plot out courses using dry erase markers or "china" markers. When finished you just wipe them clean and they are ready to use again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
As for the aircraft compass I have noticed in many aircraft the compass doesn't work worth the ****, so I depend mainly on the speedbar, look at the heading on the speedbar then look at the compass and you'll notice both are not the same.
In the 38 the compass rotates extremly slow and by the time its heading matches that to your speedbar your past the point you need to change direction, so I would recommend using the speedbar and never mind that one on your instrument panel.
Also don't forget that weather plays a important part, if you are flying with a cross wind (which is the only type wind you can have, this needs to be fixed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) even though your flying a 270* heading, your not flying straight but drifting.
So it is important that you are always looking at landmarks in relation to the map, takes practice and is difficult but that is how it is done.

AerialTarget
05-23-2005, 04:17 AM
The P-38 has two compasses. If you pull back the yoke hard, you can see something written behind it about turning off radio and something else to make the magnetic compass work. I'm guessing that it's a backup. In the game it doesn't work, because your main compass can't fail.

By the way, that's a simply smashing idea about the printing and dry erase markers.

AerialTarget
05-23-2005, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Say, I must apologize to Oleg for that remark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I just checked in the game, and it's still metric only. I don't have Pacific Fighters. He did handicap those of us who don't have Pacific Fighters!

Am I in the wrong forum?

AerialTarget
05-23-2005, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Say, I must apologize to Oleg for that remark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take back my apology; I just checked in the game, and it's still metric only. I don't have Pacific Fighters. He did handicap those of us who don't have Pacific Fighters!

Say, I'm in the wrong forum, aren't I?

major_setback
05-23-2005, 04:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oleg has handicapped us Americans and everyone else who uses imperial units or flies real or virtual airplanes that do, as the red numbers are in metric only </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice little rumour you have there. Wrong though - read the manual and then set a key to toggle through the speedbar settings....you'll find Kph, KIAS and Mph are available http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also (I think) when you are given an altidude order by your controller on the radio, this will be written in text on the screen, with the height in feet given in brackets!

Bearcat99
05-23-2005, 05:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Say, I must apologize to Oleg for that remark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take back my apology; I just checked in the game, and it's still metric only. I don't have Pacific Fighters. He did handicap those of us who don't have Pacific Fighters!

Say, I'm in the wrong forum, aren't I? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the contrary you are handicapping yurself by not buying Pacific Fighters....... Whats your problem!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif RUUUUN to the store and grab PF now!!! NOW!!! What are you still reading this for!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously..... do yourself a huge favor.... get PF. You wont be sorry and there are little features like that plus the added aircraft and the whole Pacific Island thing going on.. that make P.F. more than worth it... lastly.. you wont be able to benifit from the 4.0 patch if you are not running at least FB 3.0. Junko that is a great idea. I would just drag my map as I moved to keep an idea of where I am but if I miss one landmark often thats it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

whiteladder
05-23-2005, 06:05 AM
There are a couple of things to do if you get lost.

First don`t get lost, easyer said than done, especially after an attack or dogfight. I alway do this decide which way I will turn after an attack and look on the map for landmarks that will be obvious for orientation.

When flying to and from target you can usually find a road or river that lead to it. Make a note as you pass junctions or splits in the river, you can keep a check on progress.

If flying over water or in blind conditions, make a note of the reciprical course you will need for your return, and make note of the time taken for the outward leg. Some compasses are better for this than other (the SBD is bad in this respect.)

Make sure before you get lost you have a plan for finding where you are. Most maps have a linear feature(river, coast, lake etc) that can be intercepted by flying a particular course, South for example, it is then a matter of flying along the feature until you recongnise something. If you know roughly where you should be in relation to it that helps.

artjunky
05-23-2005, 08:05 AM
I've been up in a plane in my local area and i have noticed that not every 'forest' is the same as the next. There is always something different...in the game, we do not have this luxury...everything looks basically the same. you could go from France to Russia and see, basically, the same landscape and landmarks. That's not to say it's not a good looking game, the terrain is all fairly repeatative.

I blame it on the lack of natural variations in these terrains. i think there needs to be little clues as to where you are and this, i think, could be done by scattering a variety of different landmarks throughout the maps. There are already many objects that could be used; vehicles, fences, barns.

One think i have not seen in the game that would be a nice feature would be "deformed" landscapes. Quaries, outcroppings, mines, come to mind.

Basically, the northern European maps, when you are out of the cities, all you see is green grass an trees, grass and trees for mile after mile with little variation.

That's what i would like to see changed....landmarks. i think the solution is being able to pick something out of the landscape and remember it and use it as a way of finding your way around.

But, of course, as others have mentioned, you need to have basic navigation skills.

adadaead
05-23-2005, 01:51 PM
Wait just a **** minute... what do you mean you have hard time navigating In Flashpoint, its easy you have little ciricle on the map where you are, and by the time when you switch to veteran mode you should know every square inch of the island, i can navigate at night without NV in that game, all the icons of the trees, bushes, roads, houses, barns are opn the map if you lost just go to the neareast town and look at town's name then look at map...

WFLZ
05-23-2005, 02:20 PM
I made a nav training document for the squad I'm in once, here's some links:

Nav Training PDF (http://www.altitude.us/missions/Jeevs%20Missions/Nav_Training/Nav_training_mission.zip)

Printable Compass Rose (http://www.altitude.us/missions/Jeevs%20Missions/Nav_Training/Compass%20Rose.pdf)

Nav Training Mission (http://www.altitude.us/missions/Jeevs%20Missions/Nav_Training/Nav_training_mission.zip)

It's not complete yet as far as complex route planning and nighttime navigation but it's a start.

AerialTarget
05-24-2005, 04:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by adadaead:
Wait just a **** minute... what do you mean you have hard time navigating In Flashpoint, its easy you have little ciricle on the map where you are, and by the time when you switch to veteran mode you should know every square inch of the island </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I start out using maximum realism options, all the time, in all games. I had no difficulty navigating in Operation Flashpoint when I left it; it was starting out that it was hard. I never did get used to navigating in IL-2's repetitive world, though.

VF51_Flatspin
05-24-2005, 09:12 AM
Navigating with landmarks is fairly easy with a little practice. My usual move is head North so I'm looking at stuff the same way the map shows it.

Navigating blue water missions is another story. You have to use heading, speed and time to get you where you want to go and back. Try this math for that: (km/kph)60. Most grid squares are 10km (excepting the biggest and closest zooms). So figure your heading to target, calculate or estimate the distance, check your speed and plug in the numbers to the equation above. Works great.

TacticalYak3
05-24-2005, 12:58 PM
If you want to explore the challenge enjoy mate!

Some small/unique maps are of course much easier than larger, winter maps.

While I think most of us can figure a vector to the target zone and back (without Ground Control assistance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), one of the main challenges/drawbacks I have often lamented about this issue is the lack of team coordination and gameplay.

Ideally you want to fly together but that it not always possible (i.e., dogfight). Once the squad is separated one can spend a lot of time trying to re-join.

Another issue is that vectoring to and from target zones can become less "imaginative" in that certain flight paths based on landmarks are often used instead of being able to use more complex paths with the assistance of the map.

----------

I find that high altitude flying provides you with a great advantage in seeing the map.

I will usually write my vectors down before take-off.

And as some have mentioned indirectly and otherwise, with regards to realism most (but not all) pilots were given opportunity to familiarize themselves with their territory. Flying different maps in IL-2 without such training is not realistic (but sure is challenging).

TactS!

Bronzefist
05-24-2005, 01:07 PM
Wow thanks for all the replies guys--much appreciated. My experience came from an online game. When I play single player I usually just radio ground control for help :P