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rfxcasey
07-15-2009, 07:46 PM
Just let me get this out of the way. I just want facts here. If you can't substanciate your "facts" I don't want to hear your opinion of what the best controller is as this is not the question. I know I will however, still get people saying stupid things like "CH all the way!".

If you have or purchase a Thrustmaster Cougar USB trottle can you use a CH joystick gameport version on your gameport? What is the interchangability of these if any?

Also if you get an old gameport version of a stick like a Thrustmaster f-16 FLCS will it work with XP?

rfxcasey
07-15-2009, 07:46 PM
Just let me get this out of the way. I just want facts here. If you can't substanciate your "facts" I don't want to hear your opinion of what the best controller is as this is not the question. I know I will however, still get people saying stupid things like "CH all the way!".

If you have or purchase a Thrustmaster Cougar USB trottle can you use a CH joystick gameport version on your gameport? What is the interchangability of these if any?

Also if you get an old gameport version of a stick like a Thrustmaster f-16 FLCS will it work with XP?

jayhall0315
07-15-2009, 08:09 PM
Dont know, but you will get a faster answer if you ask the wiring experts at the official CH Hangar forums here:

http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/

or at Frugalsworld.com here:

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/


Ohh, and....... CH ALL THE WAY !!!!!

Sokol__1
07-15-2009, 09:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you have or purchase a Thrustmaster Cougar USB trottle can you use a CH joystick gameport version on your gameport? What is the interchangability of these if any? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probable NO, the gameport in Cougar base is to receive Cougar stick signals to USB main circuit, this is not a standart gameport, hight risk to short circuit one or both controls.

I dont believed that oficial forums these marks help in this case...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
also if you get an old gameport version of a stick like a Thrustmaster f-16 FLCS will it work with XP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmm, is a PITA - in old DOS fashion way - but yes, in XP and Vista 32 bits. Not in Vista 64 bits or Win7 32 or 64 bits . Take a look:
http://www.warrenernst.com/thrustmaster

Sokol1

Superjew1
07-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Cougar HOTAS All the way!!!!!111!!1!

edit:Oops, sorry didnt see it wasnt one of those kinds of threads.

STENKA_69.GIAP
07-16-2009, 05:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rfxcasey:
Also if you get an old gameport version of a stick like a Thrustmaster f-16 FLCS will it work with XP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Under XP you can configure basic gamport devices with 2 or 3 axes 4,5 or 6 buttons to work fairly easily. However, once you get to more sophisticated sticks with multiple hats and extra rotors or sliders you will need drivers and most of the time you will have difficulties finding valid drivers for XP.

So if you buy old gameport devices they may or may not work and they may or may not be usable under XP and they are even less likely to be usable under Vista. So you need to be prepared for the cost and time needed to convert them to USB.

An USB conversion can cost 40 Euros for the circuit board and can take several hours for someone good with a soldering iron.

I have converted the following gamport devices to USB.

Thrustmaster F16, X Fighter, FLCS Rudder pedals
Saitek X35, X36
CH Pro Rudder Pedals

You need to buy gamport devices very cheap and be prepared for the expense and time needed to convert them if needed - if not you should go to a shop and buy a brand new X52 with a guarantee.

Crash_Moses
07-16-2009, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also if you get an old gameport version of a stick like a Thrustmaster f-16 FLCS will it work with XP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can answer this with some authority as I have successfully connected the FLCS, WCS2, F-22, and TQS to my XP box via a gameport. In fact, I'm currently using the F-22 and TQS with CH rudder pedals (non-USB). There are a few caveats, however:

1. Since the Thrustmaster software won't work in XP you will be unable to program any of them without creating a bootdisk that allows you to boot the system in MS-DOS. I created a bootdisk with the Thrustmaster software on it to simplify things. I no longer have to do this which brings me to point number two.

2. A wonderful gentleman by the name of Bob Church created several IC chips that converted the FLCS, F-22, and TQS (not sure about the WCS2) to digital. These, along with the XP drivers (also written by Bob), will allow someone with these devices to use all of the buttons available. For even more functionality you can use James Hollow's Digital Foxy to program the sticks (James also wrote the software for the Cougar) or write your own template in notepad and upload it using Bob's software.

3. Unfortunately, Bob no longer makes the chips so they are unavailable for purchase. Occasionally you can find modified sticks for sale on e-Bay but it's been awhile since I've ran across one. I don't know if anyone has tried to contact Bob directly but that's also a possibility.

If you do manage to snag one, both Bob Church and James Hollow's web pages are still up.

For the XP drivers and other utilities go here:

http://www.stickworks.com/

You can download Digital Foxy here:

http://www.flyfoxy.com/

And Mr. Hollow's comprehensive Thrustmaster FAQ can be found here:

http://www.flyfoxy.com/ThrustmasterFAQ.html


I highly recommend these sticks if you can find them. Mine have had almost daily use since 2004 and still work flawlessly.

Sokol__1
07-16-2009, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An USB conversion can cost 40 Euros... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AFAIK - A BU0836 USB card - enough to convert one Tm F-16/F22 plus Tm TQS plus rudder pedal, like CH PRO or Tm RCS/Elite, all gameport to USB - cost
~45U$ - worldwide postage include...

Unless the L.Bodnar has left the business:
http://www.leobodnar.com/
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

And again the most recent and complet "how to" use Tm gameport devices in XP or Vista 32 bits is
http://www.warrenernst.com/thrustmaster
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Sokol1

jayhall0315
07-16-2009, 03:33 PM
Yes, I second Crash, Bob Church is likely the guy to ask on this. You can find him at the official CH Hangar Forums or at his stickworks website.

Sokol__1
07-16-2009, 06:34 PM
Stickworsk drivers only help Tm gameport stick if is have a B.Church digital chips, not DOS versions. I have these chips.

Sokol1

rfxcasey
07-16-2009, 10:14 PM
Thanks for the info everyone, nice site you mentioned Sokol__1. Has anyone ever tried just hacking a dual-shock style or other usb pc controller I/O board to the swithes and pots on a gameport stick? I may be able to add some level of force feedback this way too.Another thing would be to use a dualshock analog stick as a hat. I was also thinking about taking an old CH flightstick and converting it into a throttle with extra switches, buttons, and dials. Either of these projects seems fairly easily doable and cheap. If you cut the controller handle off of the CH flightstick and adapt something like a Hurst shift knob to it, then remove the centering springs for the Y axis and add some resistance to the movement you could push it where you want it and it would stay. Then you could leave the X axis self centering and use this as rudder control. Or you could block the X axis movement all together so you only have up and down. Another thing I was thinking was you could use one or both of a dualshock anolog sticks on the trottle handle accessable via your thumb. Just brainstorming but if anyone is interesting in coming up with something new, I am an electrical engineer and a bit of a harware hacker to boot.

Sokol__1
07-17-2009, 10:42 AM
rfxcasey

I re-use some USB PS2 style gamepad as "button box", but I find very difficult de-solder the mini-stick from PCB without destroying it, these Chinese things is too small and have a very fragile trials.
Their axes is 8 bits (256 points of resolution) and have a small travel. But why not try?

The CH Flightstick, due you symmetrical grip shape is good to a make a "Throttle-stick", you can re-use the grip in horizontal position (T).
I don't test this, but the idea of use X movement for rudder sound good. Maybe fit in "Neural Stick" theories of J.HALL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Something like this:

http://img381.imageshack.us/im...1/flightthrottle.png (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8531/flightthrottle.png)

Put ~10/12 degree angle to front and upper in grip, to fit comfortable in his hand.

Is easy to remove Y springs and block X movement if applicable, use original CH pots, they have good quality. I make two "Throttle-stick" for friends, using cheap joysticks.

Sokol1

rfxcasey
07-17-2009, 06:56 PM
Wow, great! You really made my day with that. I love to find people who like to experiment as much as I do. I did desolder a mini stick last night and found that the pots where 8K Ohm. I know the ones in the game port stick are probably 100k but I may be able to divide the resistance down, I just haven't tried to work the circuit out yet. If not I will have to find some pots. Of course you could always just use the Joystick as a standard 4 button 2 axis and then just use the gamepad I/O board for any extra buttons you want without even having it electrically connected to the joysticks internals, but still contained in the same joystick housing. I think this might work great the only thing is you will have a gameport cable and a usb coming out of the stick but you can wire wrap them together so it seems like just one cable with 2 connectors on the end, one gameport and one usb. I would be good with that if the joystick resolution works well enough via gameport. Great graphic by the way, I totally love that.

Oh one more thing, when I took apart that dual shock ministick last night, just for the heck of it I removed the metal holddown bracked on the ministick and the stick itself came out. There is a single spring under it that makes it self center so I removed that and put it back together and reattached it to the pcb. When I put the dualshock back together I had one stick like you would find for the trottle and rudder on an RC plane controller that stayed where you put it and the other stick was still self centering for elevator and aileron control. Pretty awesome actually. The stick with the spring removed was a little loose feeling but there are ways to fix it so it's more solid. Still it worked great as it was.

rfxcasey
07-17-2009, 08:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Maybe fit in "Neural Stick" theories of J.HALL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure what you mean here? Could you be more specific?

Oh, and thanks, I hadn't even thought about repositioning the flightstick handle in the way you describe, but your definately right, that would work out fantastic and save $$$.

Sokol__1
07-18-2009, 03:12 PM
Jay Hall wrote a "Newbie's Guide to IL2 Joystick Setup". His say that - for dogfight - is better that you control your rudder with thumb than foots... due Neural delay.

Here: www.mediafire.com/?sha...f6e8ebb871 (http://www.mediafire.com/?sha...f6e8ebb871)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I know the ones in the game port stick are probably 100k but I may be able to divide the resistance down, I just haven't tried to work the circuit out yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I put a USB circuit take from generic Chinese stick into a CH Flighstick MAC ADB, and use the original 100k pots, and this calibrated and work fine. And use the same original 100 K pots of CH Combatstick (gameport) into BU0836 USB card.

Sokol1

rfxcasey
07-21-2009, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I put a USB circuit take from generic Chinese stick into a CH Flighstick MAC ADB, and use the original 100k pots, and this calibrated and work fine. And use the same original 100 K pots of CH Combatstick (gameport) into BU0836 USB card.

Sokol1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, this is great to know. I've been working too much and had not gotten around to too much experimenting yet. That and my future hack stick hasn't arrived yet. You probably just saved me some trouble though. I'll have to give this a shot and see how it goes. The cheap Chinese stick you used, what were the value of the original pots in it. Was it a dualshock style gamepad or what. If you have the exact make and model of stick that would be kool.

Sokol__1
07-22-2009, 07:48 PM
rfxcasey,

The generic Chinese stick that I borrowed the USB circuit is a clone of Thustmaster Top Gun 2, called Thunder:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248...aisfotos/101636a.jpg (http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/9021/4h/www.shoptime.com.br/imagens/produtos/maisfotos/101636a.jpg)

Pots in these sticks are small, squared (~11x11mm)and labeled 10k, common in these and in PS2 type gameped micro-stick.

Their USB circuit are 8 bits (256 resolution points.

I plan to change the Chinese USB circuit for one DIY Mjoy with 10 bits (1024 points) in X and Y axis.

Sokol1

rfxcasey
07-24-2009, 08:58 PM
Well, I kinda broke protocol and purchased a Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X from buy.com for 38 dollars shipped. It came in about 3 days and is really nice for the money. This isn't going to stop me from hacking the daylights out of some controllers but I figure while I experiment I can use the T.Flight for instant gratification. I have to say though, if you had an old gameport HOTAS setup and wanted to convert it to USB probably the best thing to do would be buy this T.Flight HOTAS just for the guts. It's really precise and has 18 buttons or so. I would but I just can't bring myself to dismantle it. If it breaks sometime in the future though you can bet you @$$ the guts will be transplanted. 38 Bucks but it has everything you are gonna need for a sweet HOTAS convertion. If I had the nerve I'd add force feedback to it which would make it totally awesome as aside from that it is pretty much perfect. The 4 way hat feels a little light and the handles while sturdy you can tell they are somewhat hollow but aside from that it is just great. It has no drift and hardly a deadzone. It feels very accurate, responsive and tight. Not that the actually movement it tight just very precise like it has a high res.

The_Gorey
07-27-2009, 04:24 PM
if the game supports more than one joystick you can have as many sticks and wheels connected as you want, and they dont necessarily need to be plugged together.