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View Full Version : Tempest MK V, max 537 km/h at SL with boost??? (hardballs AC view)



arrow80
02-14-2005, 03:38 PM
Was it like this in RL, are we going to get the Tempest with 537 km/h at SL in 3.05? Wasn't it supposed to do 400 mp/h (640 kp/h) at SL as one of the few piston planes? At 7500 m it shows 699 km/h, wan't tempest optimised for low level performance and wasn't it a dog at higher alts?

arrow80
02-14-2005, 03:38 PM
Was it like this in RL, are we going to get the Tempest with 537 km/h at SL in 3.05? Wasn't it supposed to do 400 mp/h (640 kp/h) at SL as one of the few piston planes? At 7500 m it shows 699 km/h, wan't tempest optimised for low level performance and wasn't it a dog at higher alts?

p1ngu666
02-14-2005, 03:49 PM
yes, its taken from il2compair, and its wrong... tempest should be WAY faster http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Jasko76
02-14-2005, 03:55 PM
Indeed, i thought the data on Tempest was a bit conservative. Pierre Closterman says the Tempest V was the fastest propeller driven fighter, faster than Spit Mk XIV!

blairgowrie
02-14-2005, 04:05 PM
I hope Oleg reads this thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
02-14-2005, 04:21 PM
I presume its based on early FM modeling work for the aircraft (since its not actually in the game) but its almost 100kph too slow at sea level.

Maximum speed is about right but the curve is totally wrong. I wonder if the latest patches have revealed any changes.

This isn't a case of being off by 10 kph as many have complained about in one case or another...its a large discrepancy. But as I said, I'm not too worried at this point...we don't even have the plane yet! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
02-14-2005, 04:26 PM
Just so you guys have the numbers (A&AEE performance trials):

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Level speed performance at combat power
corrected to 10,900 lb. (95% take-off weight)
Radiator flap closed.

Height(feet) / Speed(TAS mph)
0 / 376
4,000 / 397
6,600* / 411
10,000 / 409
12,800 / 407
16,000 / 421
18,400* / 432
20,000 / 431
24,000 / 423
28,000 / 405

* Full Throttle Heights
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not until 24,000 feet that the Spitfire XIV overtakes the Tempest V in maximum top speed (the XIV maxes out at 25,400 feet with a top speed of 446 mph). From 24,000 feet and above the XIV is clearly the faster of the two fighters....below 24,000 the Tempest V is faster by 10-30mph.

I think the only faster propeller aircraft built were the Do-335 and the P-47M but I can't find proper speed graphs for them so I'm not sure where they stand in the height VS speed game.

Interesting to note, the Tempest V reaches a 400mph+ TAS rating around 6,000 feet...the Spitfire XIV doesn't reach that threshold till 16,000 feet.

MEGILE
02-14-2005, 04:31 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Enquiries, even before its in game.

The community cares about the Tempest.

faustnik
02-14-2005, 04:55 PM
I wouldn't worry about it. There is no way that is correct. Must just be an early beta.

Bull_dog_
02-14-2005, 05:43 PM
I'm not worried about it...but I'm not betting anything either...one certainty about this sim is that it is always full of suprises! Most of the FM's and DM's I like as they are right now...but there are a few anomolies to say the least.

The only thing that worries me is whether they will be pleasant or unpleasant. Oleg says..."Every patch is like box of chocolates...you never know what your gonna get".

Happy V-tine day...enjoy your chocolates

HeinzBar
02-14-2005, 07:32 PM
S!,
So, the tempest tantrums begin!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Don't worry gents, I'm sure it will be over compensated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HB

wayno7777
02-14-2005, 08:26 PM
Hopefully those were Typhoon specs and not Tempest specs.

p1ngu666
02-14-2005, 08:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wayno7777:
Hopefully those were Typhoon specs and not Tempest specs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

typhoon was faster than that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

it also looked badass, i prefer tiffy cos of looks and a beastly nature over tempest. tempest is a better plane for sure.... but its also abit sissy compaired to typhoon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

wayno7777
02-14-2005, 08:45 PM
p1ngu666 check out this site.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avcfury.html
I'm reading it now, very interesting!

add about the Sabre engine,
However, the Sabre never managed to overcome its tendency to catch on fire on startup, with 28 Typhoons burned up in this fashion during 1944 and 1945. A well-known painting of a Typhoon in colors worn in the late summer of 1944 features the following text marked on the aircraft's radiator:

IF THIS ENGINE CATCHES FIRE ON STARTING,
DON'T JUST WAVE YOUR ARMS AT THE PILOT --
TRY PUTTING THE BLOODY THING OUT AS WELL.

p1ngu666
02-14-2005, 10:26 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
i read all the bits on tempest in my typhoon and tempest book i got recently http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

lotsa cool pics too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Aaron_GT
02-15-2005, 01:48 AM
IceFire, what boost were those tests at? Most books I have seen quote 392 mph TAS at SL for the Tempest V (about 625 km/h), with higher speeds reported with high boosts on 150 octane up to around 405mph (circa 650 km/h) only the Sabre seemed a bit unhappy at those boosts initially - I am not sure if that problem was fixed later.

Aaron_GT
02-15-2005, 01:53 AM
I just spotted something else on those figures, IceFire - the maximum speed obtained is slightly lower. Perhaps it was just that by the series II different boosts etc improved performance a little?

WOLFMondo
02-15-2005, 03:16 AM
Will Oleg model the overboosting though?

skabbe
02-15-2005, 03:29 AM
have i mist something? were have you found this info? give a link?

anarchy52
02-15-2005, 05:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Will Oleg model the overboosting though? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe spontaneous combustion should be modelled also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
You go into overheat too long or jam the throttle too hard and *WHOOOF*

Similar to Me-262 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

j/k

WOLFMondo
02-15-2005, 06:47 AM
I belive the engine explosions were only when firing it up cause they used the starter from merlins (on earlier models series II's, the series II has several different types of Sabre and propeller from what I've read) and the oil in the sleeve valves could freeze up. Started properly it didn't happen but there was always a mechanic with a foam extinguisher next to the plane when starting it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by skabbe:
have i mist something? were have you found this info? give a link? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somethings are not on the net....in books..you know, paper with print on ithttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

p1ngu666
02-15-2005, 07:16 AM
it used a starter that was basicaly a big shot gun. problems enshewed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

but theres series 1 and 2 tempests...
we will probably get the worst on middleish one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

hop2002
02-15-2005, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Level speed performance at combat power
corrected to 10,900 lb. (95% take-off weight)
Radiator flap closed.

Height(feet) / Speed(TAS mph)
0 / 376
4,000 / 397
6,600* / 411
10,000 / 409
12,800 / 407
16,000 / 421
18,400* / 432
20,000 / 431
24,000 / 423
28,000 / 405 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those figures were obtained at 8.5 lbs boost, 3700 rpm. The boost on the test at that time (late 43/early 44) should have been 9lbs, but the boost control was malfnctioning.

The test notes the correct speeds at 9lbs should be 378 mph at sea level, 411 mph at 6,100 ft, 432 mph at 18,000ft.

Those are the speeds with the Sabre IIa. They were field modified to Sabre IIb standard (looks like a simple job according to the instructions). The IIb allowed 11 lbs, later 13lbs.

11 lbs boost should give 390 mph+ at sea level.

VW-IceFire
02-15-2005, 07:34 AM
Yeah I'm starting to suspect that this is the prototype or an early Series I. If you guys have the charts or data on the Series II aircraft that'd be great. (by all means, send it to Oleg)

I would hope that they would model the most used version. The physic representation is a Series II Tempest and I'm hoping for a late 1944/early 1945 set of specifications. Here's hoping!

The Sabre II is not going to detonate while its running. Well at least not under normal circumstances and at which point you can argue that any engine will detonate under extreme circumstances. The Sabre II had fire problems on startup because of the size of the engine and the lack of a proper starter to get it turned over. Once it did turn over it would run relatively smoothly (as smoothly as a Sabre II runs anyways).

WOLFMondo
02-15-2005, 08:02 AM
If the model is of a series II we should get a series II with either the 11lbs or 13lbs boost. The bulk of the Tempests built were series II anyways.

Icefire, even if those compare stats are of a prototype there wrong anyway. The notes of the performance of the prototypes specifically states that the 411mph at 3500ft was to quote: 'useful'.

hop2002
02-15-2005, 08:45 AM
Those performance figures are from a series I Tempest, JN 731, the 3rd production aircraft.

You can see the test at:
http://home.epix.net/~cap14/tp.html

skabbe
02-15-2005, 02:19 PM
if they are gonna make difrent models for the tempest(-44, -45, mark II ect) this would be fun

a time ago i started a topic about Tempest III, that one with a griffon engine, but later fited with the latest sabre engine with over 3000 hp, now it was only a prototype but she did fly. how ever the bf-109Z did not, and its in the game. that would be crazy fun though, now when we waited for the tempest v for so long...

Red_Russian13
02-15-2005, 02:24 PM
I can't wait to fly this thing...

DmdSeeker
02-15-2005, 03:43 PM
I think you guys are going to be surprised...
In AH; at least; the LA7 and the Temp anre extremely close on the deck; where the Temp rules is high speed energy fighting between 10 and 20K.

It's a fantastic plane; but it's no more uber than the La7 is.

VW-IceFire
02-15-2005, 04:02 PM
The La-7 gets its uber tag because its also lightweight and therefore better in tight manuvers and acceleration. The Tempest V needs more careful management.

Can we get the proper performance specs then for a Tempest Mark V Series II aircraft. Alex Voicu did not model a Series I aircraft. The outward appearance is different in the following way: Series I aircraft had 4 Hispano Mark II cannons which are longer barreled and stick out of the wings (with small caps on them). The Series II aircraft had 4 Hispano Mark V cannons which were mounted flush with the wing (they were also more rapidly firing but of slightly lower muzzle velocity).

The series II also had a number of other minor changes to engine and whatnot. The Series I aircraft were produced in a number around 100 before switching to the better Series II. It'd be a shame to have a Series I aircraft because these were used for V-1 hunting only while the Series II were used over and on the continent during the final battles of the war (about 800 produced).

hop2002
02-15-2005, 04:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In AH; at least; the LA7 and the Temp anre extremely close on the deck; where the Temp rules is high speed energy fighting between 10 and 20K.

It's a fantastic plane; but it's no more uber than the La7 is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Tempest in AH is a "perk" aircraft that you have to use accumulated points to fly. It also has a mcuh higher k/d ratio than the LA 7, around 4.5 to 1 compared to about 1.5 to 1, last time I checked.

arrow80
02-15-2005, 04:20 PM
The Sabre used to catch fire in one special cause. If you tried to start it and the engine didn't catch (start). Then it was very dangerous to attempt to start the engine once more, because carburetors had been already full of fuel and upon ignition it could catch fire, as far as I know...