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LeadSpitter_
06-30-2004, 01:12 PM
I was just wondering how come the p47d27 with rockettubes, 2 500lb and 1 1000lb bomb and 25 fuel does not mass 225mph. A bunch of us were playing in warclouds and a bf110g2 with loaded with two 500lbers and 108 cannons and 100 fuel is able to out run the jugs 225 mph "gauge speed"

the objectviewer shows the p47 full weight should be faster then the bf110 full weight at sea level.


something seems wrong the p47 d27 has 1000+ more hp then the bf110 and weight is almost 1000lbs less but its slower in accelaration? even with the 4 bladded paddle prop? I dunno
Just wondering what the jug jocks have to say


I wondering is there something wrong witht he weights of bombs and rocket tubes on certain aircraft while others seem like they are not effected at all when carrying bombs and rockets.

I was getting out manuevered by a he111 thinking wtf in the fully loaded jug and with 25 fuel attacking the ships in warclouds at 3000m. And could not even catch or outrun lower level bf110s with full 110 trottle wep rad closed bombs already dropped.

Tryed diving from 3000m to 1000m and 3 bf110s all closed in so fast which where all at 3000m with me.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

LeadSpitter_
06-30-2004, 01:12 PM
I was just wondering how come the p47d27 with rockettubes, 2 500lb and 1 1000lb bomb and 25 fuel does not mass 225mph. A bunch of us were playing in warclouds and a bf110g2 with loaded with two 500lbers and 108 cannons and 100 fuel is able to out run the jugs 225 mph "gauge speed"

the objectviewer shows the p47 full weight should be faster then the bf110 full weight at sea level.


something seems wrong the p47 d27 has 1000+ more hp then the bf110 and weight is almost 1000lbs less but its slower in accelaration? even with the 4 bladded paddle prop? I dunno
Just wondering what the jug jocks have to say


I wondering is there something wrong witht he weights of bombs and rocket tubes on certain aircraft while others seem like they are not effected at all when carrying bombs and rockets.

I was getting out manuevered by a he111 thinking wtf in the fully loaded jug and with 25 fuel attacking the ships in warclouds at 3000m. And could not even catch or outrun lower level bf110s with full 110 trottle wep rad closed bombs already dropped.

Tryed diving from 3000m to 1000m and 3 bf110s all closed in so fast which where all at 3000m with me.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

JG53Frankyboy
06-30-2004, 01:23 PM
no offence about the other things, but a P47 has ~ 4000HP ?

the Bf110G2 has two DB605 , each 1475 HP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
06-30-2004, 01:35 PM
nvm ,checked the viewer

http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Images/p51dark.bmp

Countdown to 1337 post count = P minus 110

[This message was edited by MEGILE on Wed June 30 2004 at 12:58 PM.]

JG53Frankyboy
06-30-2004, 01:36 PM
wait http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kaesebrot.
06-30-2004, 01:41 PM
I think you´re wrong about the p47 engine,Franky!

I assume it´s got over 6000 hp! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

FI-Aflak
06-30-2004, 01:55 PM
jug cranks 2800 HP. Which is only a bit less than the combined power of the 110. It should still be faster. Did you forget that the Jug gauge give mph while the 110 gives kph? That would do it.

But, with a fully loaded jug I can hardly take off, so maybe you have a point.

p1ngu666
06-30-2004, 02:00 PM
nope, our jug has a measly 2,300hp

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

Mysticpuma2003
06-30-2004, 02:13 PM
Why not drop your 1000lb bomb on the 110. That should slow him down, while you catch up with him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, the jug still isn't right, but it's a certainly closer now with patch 2.01. I can't believe the amount of bullets I have to fire from my eight guns to get take a 109 down now. They used to fall apart, like most other planes in patch 1.21/22, but now (quoting Twister)..." I see debris", but unless I kill the pilot, it takes way too much ammo to do the job. Reading a quote from the book "Battles with the Luftwaffe", a P-47 pilot said of the gunnery..." I love the eight hispanos. A one second burst from those babies will rip most anything apart". Doesn't seem to ring quite true now. Still if there is anything we can get done to improve the P-47, I'm on your side Lead. At least with Patch 2.01, it can soak up more damage, like it should be able to.
Cheers, Neil.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

Diablo310th
06-30-2004, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I was just wondering how come the p47d27 with rockettubes, 2 500lb and 1 1000lb bomb and 25 fuel does not mass 225mph. A bunch of us were playing in warclouds and a bf110g2 with loaded with two 500lbers and 108 cannons and 100 fuel is able to out run the jugs 225 mph "gauge speed"

the objectviewer shows the p47 full weight should be faster then the bf110 full weight at sea level.


something seems wrong the p47 d27 has 1000+ more hp then the bf110 and weight is almost 1000lbs less but its slower in accelaration? even with the 4 bladded paddle prop? I dunno
Just wondering what the jug jocks have to say


I wondering is there something wrong witht he weights of bombs and rocket tubes on certain aircraft while others seem like they are not effected at all when carrying bombs and rockets.

I was getting out manuevered by a he111 thinking wtf in the fully loaded jug and with 25 fuel attacking the ships in warclouds at 3000m. And could not even catch or outrun lower level bf110s with full 110 trottle wep rad closed bombs already dropped.

Tryed diving from 3000m to 1000m and 3 bf110s all closed in so fast which where all at 3000m with me.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Leadspitter...welcome to teh uber fantastic Jug. Paddle prop??? we have a paddle prop on teh D27?? With our superb acceleration and zoom climb I never would ahve known it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/DiabloSig.gif

LeadSpitter_
06-30-2004, 02:52 PM
FI-Aflak the jug gauge is in mph, speed bar shows the kmph IAS with 25 fuel rocket tubes 2 500lb bombs and 1 1000lb bomb 1000-2000-3000m in level flight it wont pass 225mph on the gauge on the cockpit.

running 110trottle wep and rad closed.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

DeBaer.534
06-30-2004, 02:53 PM
hey, at least youre no lame "uberplane" flyer with your jug, like those guys in the ponies and spitfires http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
you'll probably have to handle the plane the way it is (like i had to do with my FW190 from the original Il-2:Sturmovik 1.0 all the way till now)

LeadSpitter_
06-30-2004, 03:41 PM
i been flying the 190 since sturmo too dabaer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Its actually my plane of choice when flying luft a-d, they definatly need to tone down the snap roll and fish floppin ability with almost no E bleed.

The also need to give it similiar elevator effectiveness like the p51, and fix the p47s elevator effectiveness as well, if they did they would still loose in a turn fight and have.

Remember the 190a8 vs the p39 trim on sliders http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif 190 would always go into them flat spins which planes stalled like that instead of the instant recoveries just by centering stick

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

ImpStarDuece
06-30-2004, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
Reading a quote from the book "Battles with the Luftwaffe", a P-47 pilot said of the gunnery..." I love the eight hispanos A one second burst from those babies will rip most anything apart".
http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EIGHT HISPANOS!?! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Those really would rip up anything into tiny little pieces.

I think you mean eight Brownings, Hispanos were mostly fitted to British aircraft (the 20mm on the P-38 was a Oldsmobile cannon BTW)

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

heywooood
06-30-2004, 06:20 PM
Alot of times equipment was swapped or changed out in the field due to availability - that Jug pilots' plane may have had Hispanos on it. This is one of the variances in spec or performance that you dont see poring over 'factory' documentation alone.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

ImpStarDuece
06-30-2004, 06:52 PM
Would LOVE to have that field mod then. Imagine ground attack with rockets AND eight 20mms. Please Oleg, can we have it for Christmas?

Might degrade performance just a smidge though, even on a 7000kg monster Jug.
A M2 browning weighs (without ammo) about 29kg (64lbs) while a Hispano (depending on type) weight either 50kg (110lbs) or 42kg (92lbs).

That means eight M2s weigh in at 232 kg (510lbs) while eight Hispanos weigh either 400kg (880lbs) or 336kg (740lbs). That means that the Jug is hauling around AT LEAST 105-170kg extra weight, without adding new mounting brackets, ammo feed linings or any other mods that would have to be made to the wing to fit a 20mm, let alone 4 of them.

In a lot of first hand accounts Jug pilots also recount the recoil of the big battery mounted Brownings knocking off 5mph after a sustained burst. Imagine the recoil effect of a gun with a similar ROF firing a round almost 3 times the wieght of a standard .50cal (43grams vs 130grams). It would be like firing 24 Browinings at once!!! Cripes!

Then again, think of the damage potential that a Hispano armed Jug could inflict. The 20mm Hispano was reckoned by the US NAvy during WW2 to be about 3 times as effective as a .50cal. Again thats like mounting 12 .50s on EACH wing. Thats the equivalent of 24 Brownings hitting a target!

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

dadada1
07-01-2004, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
nope, our jug has a measly 2,300hp

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasn't the engine called the R2800 but produced around 2300hp?

NorrisMcWhirter
07-01-2004, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
Why not drop your 1000lb bomb on the 110. That should slow him down, while you catch up with him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, the jug still isn't right, but it's a certainly closer now with patch 2.01. I can't believe the amount of bullets I have to fire from my eight guns to get take a 109 down now. They used to fall apart, like most other planes in patch 1.21/22, but now (quoting Twister)..." I see debris", but unless I kill the pilot, it takes way too much ammo to do the job. Reading a quote from the book "Battles with the Luftwaffe", a P-47 pilot said of the gunnery..." I love the eight hispanos. A one second burst from those babies will rip most anything apart". Doesn't seem to ring quite true now. Still if there is anything we can get done to improve the P-47, I'm on your side Lead. At least with Patch 2.01, it can soak up more damage, like it should be able to.
Cheers, Neil.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

There must be something different about the P47 and P40 guns, then, as I don't have any trouble downing 109s (or Ki84c, for that matter) with the P40. A burst of about 1-2 secs is enough to set them alight.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

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Zayets
07-01-2004, 06:42 AM
Zoom climb now in the P-47 is not that good as it was before. Try to climb vertically and your speed drop really fast.I was starting my climb at about 590Kmph at 1000m,at 3000m the 109 following me was still there.Zoom climb in P-47 is just a myth in AEP. Forget it. OTOH, climb vertically with the P38 , this is awesome.You let pretty much anything behind http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

WOLFMondo
07-01-2004, 07:11 AM
The P38 hangs on it props like helicoptor! Well not quite but it can do some crazy manouvers with a bit of effort.

Im really not sure about the P47. Its allot better than it was before 2.01 and im sure its zoom climb is now better but its still got a little to be desired.

Whatever its state, I'll fly it, bomb with it, bnz with it and generally enjoy my favorite allied plane (until we get a Tempesthttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

Maple_Tiger
07-01-2004, 08:08 AM
I know what you mean Lead.

Yes, im a P-47 fanatic! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Right now im running this D27 BoE campaign Normandy. Loaded out with 75% fuel, bombs, and rockets, you actualy run out of runway lmfao lol. This is a fun campaign, i have flown over 51 missions so far, and what a blast.

Ever notice that you can't even get combat RPM? I wonder if it even has the correct manifold pressure? Has anyone been able to reach it max speed on the deck?

On the otherhand, the P-47 has seen a huge improvment since version 1.0. The only thing that i would like to see is, little better accerlation and Zoom climb.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

Diablo310th
07-01-2004, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Zoom climb now in the P-47 is not that good as it was before. Try to climb vertically and your speed drop really fast.I was starting my climb at about 590Kmph at 1000m,at 3000m the 109 following me was still there.Zoom climb in P-47 is just a myth in AEP. Forget it. OTOH, climb vertically with the P38 , this is awesome.You let pretty much anything behind http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly.....try outzooming any plane and u'll get ur butt handed to u on a platter. Try diving and you had better have alot of altitude to get away.

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/DiabloSig.gif

Hoarmurath
07-01-2004, 09:33 AM
The keyword here is "rockets"... This is what slow the most the jug... I used to compete in a race with an armed jug (a lot of bonuses on the way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and i had to get rid of the rockets as soon as possible... While the 1000lbs bomb wasn't slowing the plane too much, the rockets acted like airbrake...

Have you tried with a Bf110 equiped with rockets?

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

Mysticpuma2003
07-01-2004, 09:39 AM
This is the direct quote so I was wrong about the Hispanos, oh well,better to get it right so here goes;

Quote by Major, later Lt Col,James J Stone Jr, P-47 pilot 83rd FS CO, 78th FG, and acting CO, 78th FG 1-12 July 1943, CO, 31 July 1943-22 May 1944.

" Diving away is the ace in the hole for a fighter pilot. Once the Focke Wulf could break combat and get away in a high-speed dive. But the P-47 can out-dive the FW and since, like all American planes, it is extremely well built, will hold together while catching him in the dive. What's more, a one-second burst from those eight fifties will down any fighter made. Our '47s have been in combat since April 1943. Since that time we've made a believer out of many a German pilot. we worry them and that alone is a big part of our job."

So, to correct, they weren't Hispanos, just 'tiny' fifties...still it takes longer than a one-second burst in FB, still come to me now Patch 2.02. and really I do know how to fly this bird, it just takes much longer to get a plane on fire or take a wing off than I remember.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

horseback
07-01-2004, 09:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dadada1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
nope, our jug has a measly 2,300hp

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasn't the engine called the R2800 but produced around 2300hp?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The numerical designation refers to the cubic inches displaced by the engine. R-Radial, V-inline V. Hence, designations like R-1820, V-1710(Allison), V-1650 (Packard Merlin), etc.

cheers

horseback

PS -that line about Hispanos in a Thunderbolt has to be a mistake on the part of the quoter or the quotee. Hispanos take up more room than a .50 Browning, would have required special fairings to cover them, are a bit heavier, and have significantly shorter firing time (way few rounds). Throw in the fact that it was a British standard weapon, and eight of 'em would equip 4 Spitfires, I just don't see it happening.

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Zayets
07-01-2004, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
The keyword here is "rockets"... This is what slow the most the jug... I used to compete in a race with an armed jug (a lot of bonuses on the way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and i had to get rid of the rockets as soon as possible... While the 1000lbs bomb wasn't slowing the plane too much, the rockets acted like airbrake...

Have you tried with a Bf110 equiped with rockets?

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
See,this is the problem,I am online,25% fuel,good for half hour loitering watching for the prey to show up.I have extra ammo,no rockets ,no bombs.Dive to the Messerschmidt,he sees me.I say,np baby,I have a speed now that I can use to lift off Columbia,I'll get it when he'll break.No way!I do a hi-yoyo to ,here he is, closing closing,break turn in dive, I break as well the pursuit to gain speed.Which I have by now.Fritz ended his dive turn and heds directly to my butt.I am just about to start my climb.I start the climb,he's still after me.He shoots,far away,a noob,he opened fire from a mile,I say easy kill,and continue to climb,I am about at 290kph,2500-2600.My plane almost stops and I'm about to roll into the bandit.Suddenly my crate shakes its wings and I see the ubiquitous by now for me, "Aileron control damaged". Now,how do you roll???And how nice was the zoom climb compared with the 109? I guess, I have to get used with this too.See? This is what I mean.I don't care too much about the performaces,I fly what they give me to fly.Is nice to have stuffs close to "reality".But if things are changing from patch to patch , this pretty annoys me because that means "few" more hours to get a feel of the thing.
Ah,whatever,just enjoy the game.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

Hoarmurath
07-01-2004, 10:42 AM
290kph at 2600? then you have your answer, you were too slow, you tried to gain altitude while sacrificing your speed, poor energy management. I have been bounced in the same circumstances by a a6m5 while flying a p38 for exactly the same reason. Its a common mistake, if you manage your energy badly, even a plane slower than you will eventually catch you...

Your plane performance isn't enough to save your butt, you need to apply some skill too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

Zayets
07-01-2004, 10:58 AM
No,no. See, I have no skill for dogfighting although I have some nice kills. 290 is more than enough for a lighter plane to continue the climb. For a heavy crate is not. But I was reffering to zoom climb,where you have to ... climb fast , to convert again your alt in energy and force the pursuer,possibly a plane with not such a good climb , to loose its energy.Pretty much as the prey is doing.Point is that if you keep your rate of climb too slow,eventually you'll end up in the same manner.If you are not so inspired and you also turn ,then the Jug will not help you much. Conserve energy is a common word,everyone knows about their plane what not to do in order to keep the speedometer in the high values.In FB 1.22 it was climbing like a banshee,not to mention about the dive which was like a rock. It doesn't help you much unless you are followed by really light planes.But as I said,I'm not complaining about the FM,but just for the fact that I have to get used (again) with the same plane I used to play in the previous version(s).

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

LeadSpitter_
07-01-2004, 11:45 AM
they dont seem to under stand that a dive from 7000m to 2000m the p47 can reach almost 1000kmph. But in less then 30 seconds of trimming very slowly tolevel flight out of the dive it will drop under 450kmph within 30 second with 0 pitch it will hold a faster speed for a few more seconds but 100 pitch and 110 trottle wep rad closed will slow you down so fast its not funny

Open the engine panels of the p47 and this is what you will find in FB

http://www.subrew.com/library/yugo/yugo_engine.jpg
yugo

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

Franzen
07-01-2004, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
Why not drop your 1000lb bomb on the 110. That should slow him down, while you catch up with him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, the jug still isn't right, but it's a certainly closer now with patch 2.01. I can't believe the amount of bullets I have to fire from my eight guns to get take a 109 down now. They used to fall apart, like most other planes in patch 1.21/22, but now (quoting Twister)..." I see debris", but unless I kill the pilot, it takes way too much ammo to do the job. Reading a quote from the book "Battles with the Luftwaffe", a P-47 pilot said of the gunnery..." I love the eight hispanos. A one second burst from those babies will rip most anything apart". Doesn't seem to ring quite true now. Still if there is anything we can get done to improve the P-47, I'm on your side Lead. At least with Patch 2.01, it can soak up more damage, like it should be able to.
Cheers, Neil.

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the debris is paintchips. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Fritz Franzen

dadada1
07-01-2004, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
they dont seem to under stand that a dive from 7000m to 2000m the p47 can reach almost 1000kmph. But in less then 30 seconds of trimming very slowly tolevel flight out of the dive it will drop under 450kmph within 30 second with 0 pitch it will hold a faster speed for a few more seconds but 100 pitch and 110 trottle wep rad closed will slow you down so fast its not funny

Open the engine panels of the p47 and this is what you will find in FB

http://www.subrew.com/library/yugo/yugo_engine.jpg
yugo

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your skill in the art of understatment never fails to amuse me.