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Gunner_361st
11-22-2004, 01:25 PM
Anyone who has been flying multi-position airplanes (bombers, attack aircraft, et cetera) know that if you are manning a position other than the pilot seat and get killed, you can switch back to the pilot seat but cannot control the airplane; it just flies along until it crashes.)

An example of this would be flying the SBD-3 Dauntless or D3A1 Val online. You pick up an enemy fighter on your six, so you switch to the gunner seat and start firing. You hit him, but he hits you as well, and kills you (the rear gunner)

You switch back to pilot seat and can see fine, but cannot control the plane, because you were killed using the gunner position. However, when flying online, a pilot is forced to keep flying the plane even though he mans a gunner position.

What do people think of the idea that with multi-position aircraft, that if the person controlling the pilot is killed in a gunner position, he should be able to switch back to the pilot seat or any of the other gunners left alive and control them?

I'm sure people can ascert arguments for and against this idea, but as a person who flies bombers as well as fighters it would be a nice benefit rather than just being wasted whenever I hop in a gunner seat because the AI couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Your thoughts, folks? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 02:19 PM
"What do people think of the idea that with multi-position aircraft, that if the person controlling the pilot is killed in a gunner position, he should be able to switch back to the pilot seat or any of the other gunners left alive and control them?"

Seems like a no-brainer to me!!!

TheVoodooPriest
11-22-2004, 02:32 PM
A no-brainer? Why is that?
Why does the pilot die although the gunner was hit? This thing already bothers me for a long time.

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 03:52 PM
I meant that it should be a no-brainer that what the poster said should be the way it is.But it isn't.

Simma da na!!!

Gunner_361st
11-22-2004, 04:14 PM
Well, at least a few people support the idea.

I have doubts anything will take shape of it unless there's real demand from a broad variety of users; most fighter jock drama queens would rather talk (sorry, I mean whine) about the flight modeling of their favorite ride and what else they'd like added to the sim.

I think my idea is a good one, and I'd like to hear from more people what they think; constructive criticism only please, if you are in disagreement.

JaggedRaven
11-22-2004, 05:13 PM
I agree. I like the idea of flying a plane back to base with half the gunners dead inside...kinda reminds me of the b-17 in the tuskeegee airmen movie...or the battle of midway with the SBDs. Kinda makes a pilot enjoy life a little more when he knows he came within a hair of death and someone else that close to him was unlucky. Definitely more realistic...especially when you consider the pilot is separated from the gunner's compartment by a big piece of armor plating in most aircraft.

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 05:17 PM
Submitted fer yer approval:

Imagine being a pilot of a bomber and because 1(ONE!!!!) waist/turret/tail gunner got smoked despite your condition you have to surrender all control of an aircraft.


"Screwey aint'it!?!?!?"

Jieitai_Tsunami
11-22-2004, 05:21 PM
I thought it already was like that. I'm sure some one hit my gunner in a coop and I could still control the plane.

If you were talking about dogfight maps, well that is arcade anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Gato__Loco
11-22-2004, 05:21 PM
I agree with you Gunner. This is silly and should be fixed. Unless the bullet kills the gunner AND the pilot (a lucky shot) you should be able to switch back to being the pilot.

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 05:26 PM
"Unless the bullet kills the gunner AND the pilot"


Oh Darwin help me here goes the ol' "Kennedy bullet" theory!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Snootles
11-22-2004, 05:31 PM
My beef is what happens when you are flying as the pilot and get killed. It would make sense to be able to take over in that situation as the copilot (if he's still alive).

The biggest problem is that only the pilot can authorize a bail-out, so if the pilot gets killed, everyone else goes down with the plane even if they have plenty of time to get out.

Tater-SW-
11-22-2004, 05:40 PM
Also, planes with copilots should require both pilots be killed before they lose control at the very least.

tater

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 05:42 PM
Co-pilots are WAY UNDER-modeled in this sim!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

IV_JG51_Prien
11-22-2004, 05:49 PM
I'm kind of mixed on it. One part of me says yes, thats pretty lame, but the other side of me says "well, you made the choice to man the gunner".

Sometimes I don't care, but other times I'm say "#@$@%@#$@%@#$@%^^^#$!!!!!!"

Fennec_P
11-22-2004, 05:51 PM
I've reported this on at least 2 occassions, so I'm assuming its a game limitation or something.

B/c the game doesn't seem to care what position you are in when killed, it just knows that the player has been killed, and hence shuts off all keyboard/axis control for that player.

Gunner_361st
11-22-2004, 05:55 PM
It is this way in aircraft in both dogfight and cooperative modes when playing online. As pilot of airplane, you still control the plane even when you are manning a gunner position.

You get killed when using gunner position, it is all over; plane has no control because you died manning gunner position.

You people have also made excellent points in that there is no co-pilot for people to take control of if pilot dies, and that pilot is only one able to certify a bail-out.

Solutions to these two problems I think would be to model the Co-pilot as flyable (just a POV in the co-pilot seat, if there is indeed a co-pilot, with same controls as pilot) and also to make it so if pilot + copilot dies in airplane, all AI crewman automatically start bailing out.

I really am glad some people support these ideas, I think they are very valid. Please, lets keep this thread alive and going and maybe our point of view will be considered!

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 06:10 PM
"You get killed when using gunner position, it is all over; plane has no control because you died manning gunner position."

A-HA!! They modeled the pilot of multi-crewed a/c as a superman that CAN jump 'tween postions??

Sheeeeeee-it than if thats the case I should be able to access the bombardiers scope without EVER leaving the pilots seat.Very interesting.

I guess schizophrenia comes to mind.
"I am the pilot"
"No,you're not!!"
"Yes I am"
"No,no you ARE not"
"Yes I am"
"Yes you are"
"No I'm no....."
"You,You,You're good you!!"

Screwy aint it???

Bikewer
11-22-2004, 06:24 PM
That's sort of how WWII online does it; as a gunner in a Heinkel, you can switch from bombardier to any gun position, and get killed successively in each of em'.

But you can't assume the pilot's position.

Havn't tried running a multi crew by myself online yet, as it's awfully hard to man the bombardier position and fly the aircraft.

Mjollnir111675
11-22-2004, 06:30 PM
And considerin the bombardier is either a dumass or absent doesn't help!!!

But I guess one could say "This isn't a bomber sim ya whiner!!"

So c'mon lets hear that intelligence peirce our eardrums!!!

Gunner_361st
11-23-2004, 06:03 PM
Bump.

It sadly is no surprise that the posts you see the most are of people and their whining about fighter planes and how they handle.

I'm starting to think posts like that should not be allowed. It is ridiculous. People have nothing better to talk about than how some airplane handles? Why not new features they'd like to see?

God forbid people use forums for a good purpose to propose ideas and set things up, rather than just to hear themselves rattle about their favorite ride.

Sorry... I am very frustrated.

roybaty
11-23-2004, 07:09 PM
It's the magic bullet theory here, goes through everyone in the plane through a series of deflections and ricochets http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

But seriously, though I don't fly multi crew AC much I see the point and it is something Oleg and gang should note down.