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View Full Version : Rudder trim heaven by CH control manager. :D



TooCooL34
06-23-2005, 05:55 AM
Those who use more than 2 CH products including CH Pro Pedals will understand it.
With 4.01 patch, torque is very realistic and fun but became pain in the ***.
I gotta do constant rudder trim to compensate torque and moreover many axis a/c don't even have rudder trim!! It almost made me avoid flying 109 since constant slight right rudder is very hard thing to do. For allies, about 10 trim button push is enough but even that is cumbersome you know.

So, I decided to learn CH CMS(Control Manager Script) and I finally made it. (It's somewhat like visual basic programming but more simple)
I move my rudder slightly to right(or left for yak-1 etc) balance the Ball, then press button on my pro throttle and center of rudder moves to that position. Move the rudder, push the button and center move to that position again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It is not only convenient but also a big advantage in slow speed knife fight. I highly recommend to use this function if you have CH products thou CMS learning curve is bit high at first.

Now foot rudder is really a MUST. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My cms code picture, just a few lines did it.
http://toocool34.cafe24.com/images/cms.jpg

TooCooL34
06-23-2005, 05:55 AM
Those who use more than 2 CH products including CH Pro Pedals will understand it.
With 4.01 patch, torque is very realistic and fun but became pain in the ***.
I gotta do constant rudder trim to compensate torque and moreover many axis a/c don't even have rudder trim!! It almost made me avoid flying 109 since constant slight right rudder is very hard thing to do. For allies, about 10 trim button push is enough but even that is cumbersome you know.

So, I decided to learn CH CMS(Control Manager Script) and I finally made it. (It's somewhat like visual basic programming but more simple)
I move my rudder slightly to right(or left for yak-1 etc) balance the Ball, then press button on my pro throttle and center of rudder moves to that position. Move the rudder, push the button and center move to that position again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It is not only convenient but also a big advantage in slow speed knife fight. I highly recommend to use this function if you have CH products thou CMS learning curve is bit high at first.

Now foot rudder is really a MUST. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My cms code picture, just a few lines did it.
http://toocool34.cafe24.com/images/cms.jpg

Hunter82
06-23-2005, 07:18 AM
can do the same thing using Foxy on a Cougar and if really adventurous using hardscript with X45-52

Grue_
06-23-2005, 07:49 AM
I assigned the throttle wheel on my Fighterstick Pro in Hotas setup and it works fine as rudder trim, even on a 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TooCooL34
06-23-2005, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
I assigned the throttle wheel on my Fighterstick Pro in Hotas setup and it works fine as rudder trim, even on a 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But rudder trim in hotas setup doesn't work in 109, does it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Grue_
06-23-2005, 11:47 AM
Yup http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ClnlSandersLite
06-23-2005, 04:44 PM
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, this is cheating. Fly the **** plane with it's historical limitations.

bun-bun195333
06-23-2005, 05:55 PM
For the Cougar guys here is the Foxy equivalent:
Rudder_trim = HOLDTRIM(RDDR)

It recenters the rudder at the current location.

TooCooL34
06-23-2005, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ClnlSandersLite:
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, this is cheating. Fly the **** plane with it's historical limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, I feel somewhat guilty. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Old_Canuck
06-23-2005, 11:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ClnlSandersLite:
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned, this is cheating. Fly the **** plane with it's historical limitations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Historically speaking, this would be called a field modification.

TooCooL34
06-24-2005, 12:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
I assigned the throttle wheel on my Fighterstick Pro in Hotas setup and it works fine as rudder trim, even on a 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I tested it and in-game rudder trim DOES NOT work in 109. It was just your illusion. Check it yourself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tully__
06-24-2005, 01:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TooCooL34:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
I assigned the throttle wheel on my Fighterstick Pro in Hotas setup and it works fine as rudder trim, even on a 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I tested it and in-game rudder trim DOES NOT work in 109. It was just your illusion. Check it yourself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think if you assign rudder to non-centering axis and leave the axis set where the ball is centered, you don't need rudder trim....isn't a Fighterstick Pro throttle wheel non-centering? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TooCooL34
06-24-2005, 01:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
I think if you assign rudder to non-centering axis and leave the axis set where the ball is centered, you don't need rudder trim....isn't a Fighterstick Pro throttle wheel non-centering? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suppose you're misunderstanding the concept. Let me take it as a joke. So are you saying one use non-centering axis(like throttle wheel) as a rudder? If it is, then I am wrong but I won't recommend it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Grue_ said he assigned throttle wheel as rudder trim, NOT RUDDER.
Anyway, separate rudder trim control just doesn't work in a/c which has no rudder trim like 109. Tested in combat stick throttle and MSFFB2 throttle.

Henkie_
06-24-2005, 04:52 AM
Very nice, but what is the point to have rudder trim or torque modelled then?

Now you can use some way to go around the need to use rudder trim. And if you can do some things to bypass the need for rudder trim, what is the point to have it then? It's a simulation complete with rudder trim, but in this way you don't have to use rudder trim. You invent some basic automatic scripting for the CH control manager to make rudder trim not needed.

What is the point?

to make it easier to play the game? or to simulate ww2 flying?

TooCooL34
06-24-2005, 04:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Henkie_:
Very nice, but what is the point to have rudder trim or torque modelled then?

Now you can use some way to go around the need to use rudder trim. And if you can do some things to bypass the need for rudder trim, what is the point to have it then? It's a simulation complete with rudder trim, but in this way you don't have to use rudder trim. You invent some basic automatic scripting for the CH control manager to make rudder trim not needed.

What is the point?

to make it easier to play the game? or to simulate ww2 flying? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then what is your point?
Nothing but arrogancy it seems. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
Your realism is not my realism. Good for you if you enjoy milimeter ball correction pain with pedals which is certainly not correct as WW2 a/c.

x6BL_Brando
06-24-2005, 05:28 AM
Personally, from the POV of a bloke with only one arm, I want to say thanks to the author. Looks like I'll have wrestle with the learning curve and master CM scripting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Or maybe that nice mister Church @ http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?act=idx will offer me some good advice on how to set this up.

I think it's a shame if we're going off on another 'cheat' pogrom, this time against HOTAS that can be scripted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif It was bad enough reading all the bad feeling about TrackIR, or trim-on-a-slider. It just seems to be based in jealousy as far as I can see.

Sure the issue about trimming planes that didn't have trim tabs is debatable - but why blow a gasket? CH owners with the appropriate sticks have always been able to use manual trim in the pitch and roll axes...for years now...and there ain't a lot anyone can do about it. Except buy one of their own.

ClnlSandersLite
06-24-2005, 05:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think it's a shame if we're going off on another 'cheat' pogrom, this time against HOTAS that can be scripted Frown It was bad enough reading all the bad feeling about TrackIR, or trim-on-a-slider. It just seems to be based in jealousy as far as I can see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TIR, I can deal with. It helps simulate flying accurately. Trim on a slider is OK (but barely in my book) because it is at least simulating a dial that must be manipulated. However, adding trim to aircraft that should not have it is cheating in all respects.

Henkie_
06-24-2005, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Then what is your point?
Nothing but arrogancy it seems. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
Your realism is not my realism. Good for you if you enjoy milimeter ball correction pain with pedals which is certainly not correct as WW2 a/c. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

my point is not arrogance.

My point is my question to you. It is not a rethoric question.

What is the point to have rudder trim if you don't even have to use it, but when you can use a program to bypass rudder trim in all the planes? Also the planes that don't even have rudder trim?

What is the point? To make it easier? Because what you do is sure is not making it more realistic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

klemlao
06-24-2005, 09:56 AM
Get the a/c up to cruise speed - the need for trim dimishes to almost nothing.

As for cheating, yes it is but any stick that has those trim wheels on the stick base, like my old Fighter Stick, can be 'trimmed' because they mechanically move the axis pot away from neutral.

I use that Flightstick aileron trimwheel for rudder trim (as in TRIM)with the aileron axis on the FS selected as Rudder trim in Controls. Prop rpm is selected as the FS Elevator axis so I can use the trimwheel again. Throttle is proportional Flap (wait - I hear someone shout Cheat! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Actually, RL Flaps were mostly proportional on a wheel at the left of the pilot seat, not a multi-position selector switch.

Now a question for X45 users. I use Rotary 1 for elevator trim and Rotary 2 for aileron trim. The elevator trim is fine but the aileron is VERY sensitive. WinXP assigns the X45 as Stick #2, something I don't seem to be able to alter, and IL2 only lets me see Stick #1 for sensitivity adjustments so I can't change the sensitivity of Rotary 2 in the game.

Am I missing something here in controls setup?
I tried editing the conf.ini file as
1RX1=7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 0
but it don't seem to help.

Any ideas on IL2/conf.ini/WinXP where I may be able to reduce sensitivity of Rotary 2 as aileron trim?

cheers,

klem

bolox00
06-24-2005, 02:06 PM
1X2=0 0 0 10 30 50 70 80 90 100 100 0 flaps
1Y2=0 30 35 42 45 48 50 50 50 50 50 0 elev trim
1RZ2=0 2 5 7 9 11 13 15 15 15 15 0 aileron trim
1U2=0 5 10 15 20 22 25 30 36 43 50 0 rudder trim

is what i'm using post patch. don't have x45 so not sure which axis is which.are u sure its 1RX1?
tried playing with the others?
i've even had a 'working' axis not show up at all in config ini- replug in diff usb port/rerun il2 setup cured it- but that could have a fluke http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
good luck

klemlao
06-25-2005, 05:46 AM
hi bolox00 :0

Is that your stick #2?

If so I am assuming:
Stick Aileron is flaps?
Stick elevator is elevator trim?
Stick rudder (?) is aileron trim?
Throttle is rudder trim?


klem

Tully__
06-25-2005, 07:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by klemlao:
Am I missing something here in controls setup?
I tried editing the conf.ini file as
1RX1=.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>RX axis on X45 is usually Rudder (the rocker control), not one of the rotaries... the rotaries are usually the U-slider or V-slider. Make sure you're editing the right line in conf.ini.

bolox00
06-25-2005, 08:17 AM
cheers tully- clear and concise as usual http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

@ Klemlao- my 'stick'(logitech 3d pro) is ID3 (hence 1X2 etc.) and yes assignments are as you state- (i did label them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). It is actually no longer a stick - just four 100k ohm pots wired to usb board - for 'ergonomics'/immersion- principle is the same.

If i've 'guessed' your axes correctly, try plugging the numbers from my 1Y2 line into your 1U1 line, the numbers from my 1RZ2 line into your 1V1 line - and reset your 1RZ1 line to something like- 0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
( if it is indeed your rudder axis)

ps,- you have made a backup of you conf.ini haven't you?

good luck and level flying

klemlao
06-25-2005, 04:59 PM
Thanks for the replies guys,

It's definitely 1RX1, the in-game select acknowledges it as "X axis Rotation ID2". Also I tried reducing the U slider (listed in Controls as Throttle, "U slider axis ID2") and I got.... 60% max throttle. Also switched around other rotary, throttle, Stick axes and observed the aileron deflection by eye using each one in turn. All exactly the same even if I set X slider stick 2 (Rotary 2) to:

0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 !!

It ignored the first half 1's and upper half 0's and just went through all the 10 positions, increasing deflection an equal step at a time(by eye). All rotaries/stick axes did the same regardless of scale values.

Weird http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ah well..... thanks again

cheers

klem

bolox00
06-25-2005, 05:29 PM
Definately http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif WEIRD
a stab in the dark perhaps, but it sounds like conf.ini is 'not playing',- try rerunning il2setup with joystick disabled- run game- 'fly' for 10 secs or so in qmb, exit.rerun setup with stick enabled.Copy/paste your numbers back in from your back up conf- hopefully this should have 'reset' your conf.ini (and will have reset default values?!)

hope this helps

klemlao
06-26-2005, 07:05 AM
Thanks for the suggestion bollox00 but no luck.

no problem I'll jut have to use it with GREAT care http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

btw, ever thought of a name change? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

klem

bolox00
06-26-2005, 08:01 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=bollox (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&amp;q=bollox)

think that sums things up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
why? had you something in mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

OldMan____
06-26-2005, 12:09 PM
Why people bother Oleg so much for a more realistic FM and then when they get it.. they Cheat it to make it works like old FM?

That is cheating, and a gross one. It this is the isea of SIm, lets all leave PF alone and go play CFS3.