PDA

View Full Version : A6M Zero in FB



Kwiatos
03-09-2004, 05:50 AM
Hi!
In my opinion A6M in Fb have some bugs:
a)critical dive speed
- A6M2 in Fb 700km/h - should be 350 mph
- A6M5a in Fb 700 km/h - should be 460 mph
b) Super charger in A6M2 - in Fb 2 stages - should be 1 stage

Some info about Zero:

The first production version of the Zero was the A6M2 Model 11, of 1940. This had a Nakajima Sakae 12 engine, a 14-cylinder air cooled radial that developed 950 hp. at 13,800 ft. The A6M2 had a top speed of 316 m.p.h. at 16,400 ft., and a range of 1,265 miles on internal fuel. With an under fuselage drop tank, the range was extended to 1,930 miles. The standard armament was 2-7.7mm MG in the engine cowling, and 2-20mm cannon in the wings. Wingspan was 39 ft. 5 in.

The similar Model 21 had folding wing tips for aircraft carrier use. This was the model on board the Japanese carriers at the beginning of the Pacific War on December 7, 1941.

Japanese pilots were trained to engage enemies in slow speed dogfights. Above 275 mph the Zero's excellent handling diminished, making tight high speed turns nearly impossible. The Zero's maximum safe dive speed was 350 mph. Above that speed the fighter lost the ability to roll and the skin on the wings would begin to wrinkle. It the pilot pushed harder the Zero might shed its wings.

The next main version of the Zero was the A6M3, which appeared late in 1942. This version was powered by an up rated 1,130 hp. Sakae 21 radial engine, with a two stage supercharger that improved high altitude performance. Top speed was increased to 336 m.p.h. at 19,865 ft. Best climb rate was 4,500 ft./min. Armament and range remained about the same.

The A6M3 Model 32 had clipped wing tips, achieved by removing the folding wing tips of the carrier model. This was intended to improve the roll rate, which was inferior to that of American fighters. This model also had reduced internal fuel capacity (down to 134 gal. from the 156 gal. capacity of the A6M3 Model 22). The Zero was beginning to show its age, and its performance was being eclipsed by the latest Allied fighters.

The reduced wing span (36 ft. 2 in.) of the Model 32 was carried over to the next model, the A6M5 of 1943. This model had the improved Sakai 31 engine with ejector exhaust stacks to augment thrust, the reduced wing span of the Model 32 (but with the familiar rounded shape of earlier Zeros), plus heavier wing skin. On most airplanes, the 7.7mm wing MG were replaced by 12.7 mm MG. Speed was now up to 358 m.p.h., and dive limit speed to 410 m.p.h. Best climb rate was 3,340 ft./min. The A6M5a had an improved wing cannon, and carried more ammunition, and the dive limiting speed was raised to 460 m.p.h. These models still lacked any protection for the pilot, or even an emergency release for the canopy.

So what we have:
1. Max safe dive speed:
A6M2 - 350 mph (565km/h)
A6M5 - 410 mph (660 km/h)
A6M5a - 460 mph (740 km/h)

2. Supercharger
From model A6M3 with Sakae 21 radial engine, Zero had two stage supercharger that improved high altitude performance. So A6M2 shouldn't have 2 stage supercharger.

Kwiatos
03-09-2004, 05:50 AM
Hi!
In my opinion A6M in Fb have some bugs:
a)critical dive speed
- A6M2 in Fb 700km/h - should be 350 mph
- A6M5a in Fb 700 km/h - should be 460 mph
b) Super charger in A6M2 - in Fb 2 stages - should be 1 stage

Some info about Zero:

The first production version of the Zero was the A6M2 Model 11, of 1940. This had a Nakajima Sakae 12 engine, a 14-cylinder air cooled radial that developed 950 hp. at 13,800 ft. The A6M2 had a top speed of 316 m.p.h. at 16,400 ft., and a range of 1,265 miles on internal fuel. With an under fuselage drop tank, the range was extended to 1,930 miles. The standard armament was 2-7.7mm MG in the engine cowling, and 2-20mm cannon in the wings. Wingspan was 39 ft. 5 in.

The similar Model 21 had folding wing tips for aircraft carrier use. This was the model on board the Japanese carriers at the beginning of the Pacific War on December 7, 1941.

Japanese pilots were trained to engage enemies in slow speed dogfights. Above 275 mph the Zero's excellent handling diminished, making tight high speed turns nearly impossible. The Zero's maximum safe dive speed was 350 mph. Above that speed the fighter lost the ability to roll and the skin on the wings would begin to wrinkle. It the pilot pushed harder the Zero might shed its wings.

The next main version of the Zero was the A6M3, which appeared late in 1942. This version was powered by an up rated 1,130 hp. Sakae 21 radial engine, with a two stage supercharger that improved high altitude performance. Top speed was increased to 336 m.p.h. at 19,865 ft. Best climb rate was 4,500 ft./min. Armament and range remained about the same.

The A6M3 Model 32 had clipped wing tips, achieved by removing the folding wing tips of the carrier model. This was intended to improve the roll rate, which was inferior to that of American fighters. This model also had reduced internal fuel capacity (down to 134 gal. from the 156 gal. capacity of the A6M3 Model 22). The Zero was beginning to show its age, and its performance was being eclipsed by the latest Allied fighters.

The reduced wing span (36 ft. 2 in.) of the Model 32 was carried over to the next model, the A6M5 of 1943. This model had the improved Sakai 31 engine with ejector exhaust stacks to augment thrust, the reduced wing span of the Model 32 (but with the familiar rounded shape of earlier Zeros), plus heavier wing skin. On most airplanes, the 7.7mm wing MG were replaced by 12.7 mm MG. Speed was now up to 358 m.p.h., and dive limit speed to 410 m.p.h. Best climb rate was 3,340 ft./min. The A6M5a had an improved wing cannon, and carried more ammunition, and the dive limiting speed was raised to 460 m.p.h. These models still lacked any protection for the pilot, or even an emergency release for the canopy.

So what we have:
1. Max safe dive speed:
A6M2 - 350 mph (565km/h)
A6M5 - 410 mph (660 km/h)
A6M5a - 460 mph (740 km/h)

2. Supercharger
From model A6M3 with Sakae 21 radial engine, Zero had two stage supercharger that improved high altitude performance. So A6M2 shouldn't have 2 stage supercharger.

Shogo_Takeuchi
03-09-2004, 08:23 AM
Hi Kwiatos,

you have absolutly right with this bugs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I have also answer you on your forum post in my topic Japanese aircraft.

I hope Oleg will correct this bugs

Capt. Shogo Takeuchi

2nd Chutai Leader; 68th Hiko Sentai

mike_espo
03-09-2004, 09:22 AM
Hey hey, finally someone who knows the zero. I said all of this before....no answer from oleg. Also, I think the type 99 cannon is way too effective in this game. ROF and effective range is too large; you can get effective hits at 300m. Sakai said that the type 99 was virtually useless beyond 100m. Also, I think the AEP zero 21 has too much ammo for cannon. Zero 21 had only 60rpg. Our zero seems like it has much more. Zero 32 and 22 had type 99 cannon but ammo was increased to 125 rpg.

I don't think the type 21 had any radio compass. Our zero does.

[This message was edited by mike_espo on Tue March 09 2004 at 08:40 AM.]

XyZspineZyX
03-09-2004, 09:58 AM
If you want to fly correctly modelled Zeros, not to mention its correctly modelled adversaries, try Target:Rabaul (http://www.targetware.net).

There, you fully experience the handling difficulties at speed, the way an enemy can dive and roll to evade the Zero...but you still find that, in the right hands, a Zero can be a total ueberplane.

Not to mention, you get an historical Solomons Island map, actual missions with a point to them, and more.

It's beta (which means, some systems don't work properly), but it's a pretty decent beta at this point, and can only get better as time goes on.

Plus, you'll also find Target:Korea (jets and props over Korea), Target:Flanders (very early WWI action), and two in the embryonic development stages: Target:Hanoi and Target:Tobruk, dealing with Vietnam and the Mediteranean respectively.

mike_espo
03-09-2004, 11:52 AM
did some firing tests. The type 99 had a rof of 490rpm or 8.2rps. It can fire in FB for 14 seconds which gives 114 total rounds. The zero 21 had only 60 rounds per gun. So we get twice the ammo we should. The numbers are the same for the zero 52 which is historic at around 125rpg assuming the improved longer barreled cannon fired at 520rpm or 8.7rps.

Oleg_Maddox
03-09-2004, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shogo_Takeuchi:
Hi Kwiatos,

you have absolutly right with this bugs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I have also answer you on your forum post in my topic Japanese aircraft.

I hope Oleg will correct this bugs

Capt. Shogo Takeuchi

2nd Chutai Leader; 68th Hiko Sentai
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I received report and it will be corrected.

Sad that too many guys goes by the way as posted here above about bug reporting.

For me is easy to look email then to list forums with slow speed. Please understand it and follow the way it should be for bug reports.

JG53Frankyboy
03-09-2004, 06:28 PM
my book is giving a speedlimitation (=max Dive speed) of

A6M2 340Knots ! ~ 612 km/H

A6M5a 400knots ~ 720km/h

its the Zero book from
Robert C. Mikesh

[This message was edited by JG53Frankyboy on Tue March 09 2004 at 06:09 PM.]

mike_espo
03-09-2004, 06:42 PM
Wow! Never heard that fast! I can't even get the zero 21 to 500 kph true at 4500m. It should do 533.

boohaa
03-09-2004, 07:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
If you want to fly correctly modelled Zeros, not to mention its correctly modelled adversaries, try http://www.targetware.net.

There, you fully experience the handling difficulties at speed, the way an enemy can dive and roll to evade the Zero...but you still find that, in the right hands, a Zero can be a total ueberplane.

Not to mention, you get an historical Solomons Island map, actual missions with a point to them, and more.

It's beta (which means, some systems don't work properly), but it's a pretty decent beta at this point, and can only get better as time goes on.

Plus, you'll also find Target:Korea (jets and props over Korea), Target:Flanders (very early WWI action), and two in the embryonic development stages: Target:Hanoi and Target:Tobruk, dealing with Vietnam and the Mediteranean respectively.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stigler,how come you play AEP if Target is so good?I am asking this because I really like realistic FM's as the number one draw of a flight sim.I also wonder what you mean about handling difficulties at speed since the zeros in AEP lose lots of handling at high speeds.

Saburo_0
03-10-2004, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
my book is giving a speedlimitation (=max Dive speed) of

A6M2 340Knots ! ~ 612 km/H

A6M5a 400knots ~ 720km/h

its the Zero book from
Robert C. Mikesh

[This message was edited by JG53Frankyboy on Tue March 09 2004 at 06:09 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is correct, many US sources confuse mph & knots.

KIMURA
03-10-2004, 03:36 PM
But an improvement of the A6M2/5 roll rate &lt;300kph would also be nice - according to the 1944 Maryland tests comparing the Seafire LIIc (Vb) vs the A6M5. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-10-2004, 09:52 PM
to boohah:

I don't have AEP yet, and I might not get it.

The flight model circus in this community has soured me on the IL-2 system somewhat. It can be a fun sim to play, but it's FM is rotten at the core. The energy bleed is almost universally OFF, it's worse the higher you go, the AI is a sick joke...

and with the rapid increase in planes du jour, you know there hasn't been time to get their models right.

The Zero here was another example of this. It flies *roughly* like a Zero (it turns well) but none of the subtleties are there. If you try Targetware, you'll see what I mean. The utter gutwrenching frustration of being at high speed (at least, high speed for a Zero) and watching an enemy plane tantalizingly close, but out of your gunsight because your plane is locking up, and tending nose high..... it's very interesting. You gain a real appreciation for the plusses and minuses of a Zero in Targetware.

Case in point: there were some very well flown P-51s zipping around in there today. After spending the early part of the day flaming the "entitlement" Stangboys (you know, the ones who have read too many stories and think you become an Ace just by climbing into a P-51 and taking off; they're easy pickings), a couple of real pros started working together, managing the plane's speed, covering each other....I got my butt *kicked*. As soon as I'd get a bead on one, tracer from one or two others was winking past my canopy. Just as it was in the real war.

Targetware fairly *reeks* of this phenomenon. A few FMs aren't quite there, but most REALLY are. You should try it.

Kwiatos
04-05-2004, 05:08 AM
I have request to any who have manual or book with info about max dive speed for A6M2. If someone could send me scan to
e-mail for my raport bug:
kwiatos999@poczta.onet.pl

Willey
04-05-2004, 06:25 AM
What I want to see fixed is the roll rate. Those huge ailerons are known to give a great roll rate at lower speeds but also to freeze up at higher speeds rather quickly. But even at 200-300km/h IAS it rolls like a 747 now, and it's impossible to stay @ someones six. Up to 400km/h IAS the roll rate should be quite decent, up to 300 IAS rather excellent, but above 400-500 it should be rather slow.
Another one is the guns. The 2 seems to have exactly the same 20mm cannons the 5a has. IRL they were more like MG FF, even worse. Low ROF, low V0, only 60rpg... FYI: THe A6M3 had 1000rpg 7.7mm ammo, like the A6M5. The A6M2 had just 500rpg AFAIR. I think it also has 1000rpg in AEP.

crazyivan1970
04-05-2004, 07:18 AM
Stiglr if you don`t have AEP stop commenting on it then. First buy it, then comment on it. Otherwise it just plain silly

Also, i thought i warned you that you should stop advertizing that silly game of yours. I mean it. Start your own forum and dedicate it all to this game or whatever it is. Ok?

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

mike_espo
04-05-2004, 07:39 AM
Hmmm. Don't have trouble staying on anybodys 6 in a zero. My only beef is the top speed is off. Zero 21 should do 530km/hr true at 4500m. Our version only does 490km/hr at that alt. Hopefully, it will be corrected in patch.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

geetarman
04-05-2004, 08:55 AM
Complaints about the Zero? That plane, well flown, can handle any of the pre-44 planes in this game.

Kwiatos
04-07-2004, 03:00 AM
I have request to any who have manual or book with info about max dive speed for A6M2. If someone could send me scan to
e-mail for my raport bug:
kwiatos999@poczta.onet.pl