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View Full Version : So I went into WC tonight to see how it would be with the single death kick...



x__CRASH__x
01-26-2005, 12:38 AM
Spawned with a P-38 making a run on my tarmac. I couldn't hit refly fast enough. A series of explicitives flew out of my mouth. Next thing I know I'm back in HL, where I was not a minute before.

Went to GreaterGreen and had fun flying the rest of the evening.

Don't like the single death kick. Not one little bit. Sparx, I don't know what possesed you to do this, but it's a bad move IMO.

GAU-8
01-26-2005, 12:44 AM
dont pick the closest base to opposing forces. :P

well its that, or 3 lives, but not a single parachute to escape with. ever.

FI.Snaphoo
01-26-2005, 01:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAU-8:
well its that, or 3 lives, but not a single parachute to escape with. ever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't like that option either. Granted, I will go to WC to try it out. (Haven't had time to do so yet) But, the "no escape possible" option is a bit odd. The one life thing is a bit strange as well. But I'm willing to try it out. I just don't understand why the social pruning is necessary. Running people off because they aren't having your kind of fun, seems a bit off center to me. I understand that "I don't have to fly at WC," but I do want to. I enjoy it there. The conditions were enough to instill a "sense of danger" to me. Perhaps not for others.

buglord
01-26-2005, 01:38 AM
tried it got 6 kills before i died ,to be honest it made more aware best ive done in there in a while.

fox402
01-26-2005, 01:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fox402:
Yes but the six Pilots you killed all got Kicked.
This is one crazy way to run a server IMHO.
If your a new pilot trying to get to grips with full real setting and get kicked every time you get killed , Warclouds will be the last place you return.
Some of these guys that have asked for these settings need to get a reality check its a bloody game its not life and death. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GAU-8
01-26-2005, 02:10 AM
but its a game where we can simulate , close to what happened with what limitations/actions are available now.

its NOT PERFECT by any means, but knowing i had a chance to fight, and had the possibility to keep existin after a bail, is what kept me on the edge of my seat.

its not that crazy, there are many FPS games out there that after you die in game, you have to wait for the new one to start 5 min or more). not much difference here.

an occasional mishap is bound to happen when you first get in.

new pilots to full switch have other options than just WARCLOUDS. they will eventually fimnd a server thats right for them to learn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

variety is good

BenvZijl
01-26-2005, 02:23 AM
1) don't like the 1 death=kick rule(i crashlanded so i died and was kicked http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif)
2) we need parachutes it gives us when we are going down a change to eject(was in WWII a option for pilots so why wont we use it)

FI.Snaphoo
01-26-2005, 02:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAU-8:
but its a game where we can simulate , close to what happened with what limitations/actions are available now.

its NOT PERFECT by any means, but knowing i had a chance to fight, and had the possibility to keep existin after a bail, is what kept me on the edge of my seat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see your point... As a novice, I don't agree with it... But I can see it...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>its not that crazy, there are many FPS games out there that after you die in game, you have to wait for the new one to start 5 min or more). not much difference here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The main difference with regard to "virtual death" in most of the FPS's that I've played recently is that you remain, at least until the end of the current scenario, connected to the server. A viable part of the interaction, and a spectator. This may not be feasable as most missions tend to last a bit longer than 5 minutes. One death = kick removes most interaction by definition.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>an occasional mishap is bound to happen when you first get in.

new pilots to full switch have other options than just WARCLOUDS. they will eventually fimnd a server thats right for them to learn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that is what this is about, then why not complete the statement by putting a "no n00bs" tag on the server. It is becoming increasingly apparent that novice/new players aren't wanted on the WC server. I'm sure that no one will restrict their entrance, of course. But the frustration level will be such that they won't want to return. And that seems to be the point that keeps surfacing.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>variety is good <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Variety is very good. But variety for the sake of exclusion, even if it's not explicit exclusion, isn't good at all.

Perhaps that isn't what this is about. I know you don't necessarily speak on behalf of WC. But it seems to me that the novice player, one who could be reckless with regard to their virtual life, is the target of this particular change.

PierceMcKennon
01-26-2005, 03:04 AM
I found it to be enjoyable. It does really make you fly smarter & higher altitude. I managed to stay alive for 5.5 hours straight in which I achieved 8 kills along with some ground targets destroyed, I had hits on many others with the 50's but others stole the kills. For my death I dove on a 190 which flopped about when getting shot and we clipped wings. I bailed so did he but was over enemy lines which counts as a death.

Now only if the BellumWar crowd can convince the warclouds owner to remove all labels and map icons, I dont think I would ever play and wait so long for bellumwars again and fly warclouds always.

I did see some runway collisions that could not be avoided. People checking in front of them rolling slow to the taxiway and someone just spawns at a bad time.

It did seem both teams were vulching very much but only when the teams got uneven.

I enjoy it & hope they keep this setup they have. I also hope they consider a week trial period with no map icons or labels. It seems this is the best setup for a dogfight server, bellum wars we have to wait so long for people to join & ready up..

Chivas
01-26-2005, 03:31 AM
I found it too real...it was boring and scary at the same time.

AWL_Spinner
01-26-2005, 04:04 AM
Be interested to see how this affects player numbers over the long haul.

Like the first poster, I expect I'll start a few evenings hopping into Warclouds out of curiosity and then, after fifteen minutes when a stray flak shell wipes out my pilot, move to Greatergreen and stay there for the rest of the evening. They've got some entertaining maps over there at the moment.

Re: Bellum, I can't imagine a DF server having that intensity, even with identical settings. If anything, the wait for the mission and the planning that goes before it is key to the experience. The adrenalin's really going when the mission starts.

jensenpark
01-26-2005, 05:06 AM
I'm with you Crash.

Went in...flew a few minutes, was rammed and killed by a Spitfire.

Later, went back...saw 1/2 of blue hovering around our base (CAP? maybe...scared of the deathkick?...maybe). Wandered over to red side - was shot down by flak then shot in my 'chute by some twit in a P51.

Went over to GG...

BullShark 71
01-26-2005, 07:25 AM
Of all the empty servers I see on ASE youd think someone would offer a similar "dogfight" server with similar icons and similar plane sets.I havent understood yet why everyone plays just a few servers.Sometimes I just sit in them to try to get them going (or get a 1 on 1)usually to no avail.Theres also a ton of new players or cannon fodder as myself since the PF release,on ASE Im scanning about 2000 - 2500 players usually around 200-300 visible on my filters

Anyways its not to bad at WC with the new rule and I think hes just doing a trial and error on it,so dont lose hope.

jung0l
01-26-2005, 03:17 PM
I'm a mid level settings nut who's trying to slide into full real settings. War Clouds used to be my favortie server from the week it first arrived because it reminded me of the old TX-OC3 server: miss those days of the mid level mission orientated server. I used to hit WC everyday back when it was not full real...before the dark ages...before the Empire.......Anyway..lately I've tried to try it out with my squadmates on comms...all of us relatively new to these full real servers..but we figure this is a way to promote teamwork in the highest detail. If it wasn't for them,...well i just ain't the kind of person who normally enjoys flying around 10-15 minutes looking around to get mobbed by 10 enemies hovering over bases, but hey.. I'm different.

My thing is..how do you really think a 1 deathkick improves gameplay on a FR server that already impliments a 3 deathkick limit. And to have to chose between that and no parachutes.....Man...some of these full real guys have just lost it. Really. People fly like noobs on these servers just like any other, still use BS cheezy tactics, and vulch like hell...so this thing about elite pilots is total BS to me...

So I'll just limit my FR excursions to when my squad drags me kicking and screaming to Greater Green...and stick to my "airquake"..at least I can see how to halfway avoid people doing the stupid S__.

P.S. Man, how about somebody throwing up a midlevel mission orientated dedicated server like the old TX servers....shame to have to wait for VFC coops for great fully manned missions.....

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2005, 03:22 PM
That`s DEATH for you... a pain isn`t he.

notgoodknight
01-26-2005, 03:26 PM
oddly enough I haven't died and therefore have not been kicked yet.

http://www.stats.war-clouds.com/wf/playerdetails.php?id=43

Its possible crash, just keep at it, you will get better eventually.

This is my spitfire "campaign" and I am thinking about using another plane and name after I die.

LEXX_Luthor
01-26-2005, 03:42 PM
Awsum skins buglord http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hristo_
01-26-2005, 04:02 PM
geez, you people act as if WC is the only server.

Let us have our fun in WC. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other servers around. I'm sure you'll find what suits you best.

JG7_Rall
01-26-2005, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by notgoodknight:
oddly enough I haven't died and therefore have not been kicked yet.

http://www.stats.war-clouds.com/wf/playerdetails.php?id=43

Its possible crash, just keep at it, you will get better eventually.

This is my spitfire "campaign" and I am thinking about using another plane and name after I die. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hah, I'm your top victim!

x__CRASH__x
01-26-2005, 05:08 PM
Not a matter of better or worse, GK. It's a matter of I don't have the time to fly at 10k and BnZ to hopefully make a kill then fly around for another 20 minutes until my next kill. I'd rather get in the fight, and have some fun. Avoiding confrontation may have been the used tactic in WWII, but this is a game, and I play it. I have a life, a wife, and a couple of kids. Limited time means I need to maximize my fun. Single death kick just means I need to either be bored with the mission, or risk getting kicked out a few minutes after I got in.

I really enjoyed WC. I hope Sparx returns to a more liberal death policy. If not, there are other servers where I can have the fun I prefer.

WUAF_Darkangel
01-26-2005, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
...It's a matter of I don't have the time to fly at 10k and BnZ to hopefully make a kill then fly around for another 20 minutes until my next kill. I'd rather get in the fight, and have some fun. Avoiding confrontation may have been the used tactic in WWII, but this is a game, and I play it... Single death kick just means I need to either be bored with the mission, or risk getting kicked out a few minutes after I got in.

I really enjoyed WC. I hope Sparx returns to a more liberal death policy. If not, there are other servers where I can have the fun I prefer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here

Von_Rat
01-26-2005, 11:08 PM
i love the new 1 death your out rule,,, i can't beleive people are complaining about a measly 5 minute ban. go to the john or grap a beer. if you find your spending to much time being banned. that means you gotta fly smarter, and in my opinon more realistic.

if its to boring, there are plenty of other severs offering fly and die, low alt furballs.

a very nice side effect of this is that people are starting to fly at more historical altitudes. there seems to be less ridiculous 50m furballs.

this is supposed to be a sim on ww2 air combat, not battling hovercraft. so anything that moves the airwar up, im all in favor of. i've already fought in serveral battles at 8k and up, fantastic.

this isn't the eastern front, most of these planes were designed for medium to hi alt bnz or e fighting. start learning how to fly your planes correctly, you'll live longer, and spend less time banned.

real pilots don't throw their lives away, and to many people on warclouds were doing just that before.

as for not being beginner friendly, when was warclouds ever beginner friendly. when i was new to il2, i got my *** handed to me repeatly on warclouds, and i wasn"t a newbie to flight sims.

warclouds has the reputation of being the place where the best fly. if you wanna learn there, be ready to die alot, i did.

as for hovering over bases, yes maybe the less skilled stay near bases, or are protecting them from vulching, which i hope we'll see less of.

but the best players are doing barcap, going into enemy territory and stopping enemy air before they get to target, and also when they are less aware of danger.

Bula
01-26-2005, 11:42 PM
I rather like the single death kick. Tried it out tonight and learned that Von Rat is right: many folks were grabbin' tons o' alt before engaging. There were still a number of low-alt furballs, tho...the number of these probably depends on how much groundpounding the mission requires. I grabbed a KingCobra and about 3k-worth of alt, saw Rall flying his Fw, followed him into a cloud, and dropped out of said cloud minus my right wing (collision?). Rall flew out of it as though nothing had happened. Kicked. Grabbed some food, talked to the wife, re-entered, shot down an Fw. Admiring my handiwork, I failed to pay attention and ended up smacking the ground after a 109 tore me in half with its 30mm. Kicked. Had to help the wife with the laundry. Re-entered much later, found Rall and two other Fws strafing the Red bomber base (their mission objective), flung my trusty KingCobra into the middle of it, managed to avoid getting shot down, had my gunsight blown apart, two Fws disappeared, got into a barrel-rolling, low-alt fight w/the remaining Fw (turned out to be Rall), finally managed to pull away and turn into him for a h2h pass, and...w/o a gunsight it's hard to aim, so I aimed the plane, figurin' where the nose goes, the bullets and shells will go. Which turned out to be true, sort of...but it wasn't the bullets and shells that got Rall, it was the collision (sorry, Rall). This time he died first, so the server credited me with the kill, then...kicked. Now it's time for bed.

Bula, aka BubbaFactor on HL

x__CRASH__x
01-27-2005, 12:06 AM
actually, that was VF-17_DRUID you collided with. He got a little excited about shooting you, even though you didn't notice that I, in a 109, was pulling right up on your 6. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Druid got kicked too.

AFJMantis
01-27-2005, 12:52 AM
Seems fine to me also, funnily enough there were a lot of very high flyers for the first few hours but mostly i get my kills down pretty low.I dont think ive killed anyone above 3k yet.So the whole"I dont have time to climb up to 10K and BnZ" statement seems kind of asinine to me.I used to be very gung ho in my flying style around 6 kills per death and mostly the deaths were because of careless gung homanship(made up phrase).Now i am a little more likely to disengage a loosing situation instead of fighting 2-3 ememies to the death.The fear of dying does give the game an edge somehow,palms are a little sweatier and heart rate a little higher during a dogfight which to me indicates a more excited state than previously felt.I 100% agree that it certainly isnt a place for rookies, niether a place for a quick flying fix before you go to work,pat the dog,kiss the wife or whatever else your daily routine requires.But it is a **** good place for some smart wingmanship and an immersive flying experience,reminiscent to VWF,but open 24 hours 7 days a week with no 45 minute fiascos of trying to get a mission together and enough pilots to participate,just a 5 minute ban when you get killed.Good descision SPARX i approve.If its super fast paced non stop action that gets your blood pumping then you may want to try DOOM 3, i hear its good for high numbers of kills per minute.

Heavy_Weather
01-27-2005, 08:20 AM
i think we can all agree this is a personal preference. peronsally, some days i only want to fly until my pilot is killed. i find it kinda challenging to see how many kills i can rack up before being shot down. plus its a good way of killing time waiting for Bellum wars to start up, which can age you just waiting for those missions to start. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hydra444
01-27-2005, 09:35 AM
The new death kick can blow me (oops,did I just say that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif) I still don't understand why you can't have the original 3 deaths and still be allowed to bail."Historical altitudes".Pfff,who cares where the fighting takes place.And about this fun concept you all speak of...Where is it?It ain't in WC thats for sure.Atleast,not anymore...

p1ngu666
01-27-2005, 10:32 AM
why not have 2, and bail?

every time ive been on, blue seems to sit there side, so far not seen 1 blue attempt to bomb radar station, admitidly ive not been on much, do really like it that much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

johnbn
01-27-2005, 03:13 PM
Let me see if I've got this straight in my head.

You went into the toilet tonight to see if you could kill someone with a single kick.

You a bad man.

Sry need my pills.

FI.Snaphoo
01-27-2005, 06:07 PM
Well, I've now tried it... And can honestly say it was a waste of my time... 2 minutes... Then a 5 minute ban.... When I say 2 minutes, I mean 2 minutes in the mission. I came in, loaded my plane for the ground pounding mission, started my engine, started to taxi, was vulched. Kicked. Not exactly the exciting thrill of survival. Pretty much a let down actually.

Because I was kicked so quickly, I'll try it again to see if I can actually get in the air, but so far... I'm not liking the death kick.

Before anyone goes into the "your team mates should've been providing CAP" argument, I'm not talking about being "vulched". I don't care about that, it's a tactic that is usable in the server. I'm talking about there being a pointlessness to connecting to a server for less time than the ban.

Gibbage1
01-28-2005, 02:36 PM
Ya. Online DF is about fun. Not about stressing the death.

I said this many times and I will say it again. You want realism? Put a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger when you die.

Next week, WC's will go to a perma-ban if you EVER die.

Monty_Thrud
01-28-2005, 03:27 PM
To me, it is a waste of time doing the bomber runs now, unless your well escorted, it would be good if you could have 3 lives just for the Bomber pilots, purely to encourage this on WC-wf...its now for those who want to test them selves against the best and for those who are only average(on a good day, thats me), to see if they can improve themselves, pick up any tips or tactics...i kinda like it, but would like to see TOH done like the old WC-wf(maps/planeset/etc), with 3 lives, for us not so good pilots(me), to go to after WF a sort of chill out room http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lav69
01-28-2005, 03:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PierceMcKennon:
I found it to be enjoyable. It does really make you fly smarter & higher altitude. I managed to stay alive for 5.5 hours straight in which I achieved 8 kills along with some ground targets destroyed, I had hits on many others with the 50's but others stole the kills. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, I dont know how to say this without be a ********, but 5.5 hours? That blows me away. I cannot fathom being in front of a computer that long. Even with a short break here or there. But hey thats just me. What do i know.

steiner562
01-28-2005, 03:53 PM
Bomber pilots are suffering for sure, you say get a/wait for escort butunless your with a couple of buddies you know well most people wont escort they just look out for themselves and personal glory,would it be possible to change the ban for certain aircraft? ie mudmovers(im guessing not).

Monty_Thrud
01-28-2005, 04:02 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifYes steiner562, this is why it would be good to give Bomber pilots 3 lives instead of just 1 for Fighter pilots...but i dont think this is possible to give certain planes more lives than others...or is it?...anyway just an idea, you never know whose listening http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gibbage1
01-28-2005, 04:15 PM
Even with escorts, it only takes 1 diving 109 or 190 with Mk-108 to end a bombers carreer and there is NO escort that can prevent a first run on a bomber. Only stop a 2nd run.

Stiglr
01-28-2005, 05:24 PM
Hey, Snaphoo, what exactly was stopping you from taking a look around before you rolled, hmmm? Any plane low enough to vulch you would have been plainly visible. But no, you chose to just gun the engine and go, with no regard to your surroundings and were subjected to pilot's Darwinism, as you should have.

You earned that 5-minute time out.... next time, maybe you'll take better care of that virtual life; exactly why this kind of setting is a GREAT idea.

==================

Another great side-effect of this policy: the end to killing a guy in a long, drawn out fight near his base, and having the same guy roar off the tarmac and get you while you're recovering from the original fight, and low on energy or possibly wounded. With the 5-minute rule, you actually have a chance to clear the skies over a given area.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-28-2005, 05:44 PM
Just something to look at when it comes to Bomber survivability and for those that think no one is flying bombers.

B25 stats

Flown 67 times and 13 losses

http://stats.war-clouds.com/wf/aircraftdetails.php?id=11

He111 stats

Flown 50 time and 7 losses

http://stats.war-clouds.com/wf/aircraftdetails.php?id=19


These stats have only been collected for 36 hours. Not to shaby if you ask me. You have a greater chance of surviving in a bomber then you do in most planes.

As for player numbers:

1100+ players over the last 36 hours. Seems like more like it then you think.

The one deathkick is gonna stay guys. There are far more players that like it then do not. It has raised the bar for online play and personally I like it. So its going to come down to the age old saying "if you don't like it, don't fly it".
There are plenty of other servers out there for everyone to enjoy. Many Great servers to boot.

JG7_Rall
01-28-2005, 06:26 PM
You don't have to fly on WC, it's your choice. Stop complaining.

HellToupee
01-28-2005, 10:50 PM
I jumped on today, didnt manage to die but got some statisfaction of making others wait 5mins

However i was kicked twice without warning for no apparnt reason, i used to get idle kicks on there while flying also, they really need to sort all those stupid auto kicks.

FI.Snaphoo
01-28-2005, 11:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hey, Snaphoo, what exactly was stopping you from taking a look around before you rolled, hmmm? Any plane low enough to vulch you would have been plainly visible. But no, you chose to just gun the engine and go, with no regard to your surroundings and were subjected to pilot's Darwinism, as you should have.

You earned that 5-minute time out.... next time, maybe you'll take better care of that virtual life; exactly why this kind of setting is a GREAT idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the second time, I wasn't upset that I got vulched. And it's rather presumptuous of you to think that I didn't look around simply because I was shot on the ground. As a point of fact, I did look around. I didn't see anything near me, or on the horizon, so I throttled up to taxi out. Then, probably out of the sun, where he should have been, was something that blew my plane out off of the ground.

What disappointed me was that in the two minutes that it took me to load out my plane and get ready to go, I got a 5 minute vacation. And I'm not too pleased with that. It doesn't mean I won't try again, nor does it necessarily mean that everything should change because I'm disappointed with the current settings. I was voicing an opinion. Just as you seemed to feel it necessary to share your unfounded opinion with me.

The simple fact is, tactically I was out gunned, there was nothing I could do with an enemy I couldn't see. But, my issue was with the single death kick. Not with being "vulched".

Stiglr
01-28-2005, 11:28 PM
Well, sh*t has been known to happen. You don't want me to even get started on the "hard luck" deaths I've suffered in this sim.

Still, a 5-minute time out in ALL circumstances should make pilots "value" their virtual lives just a little bit more, and that, to me, is worth the "imposition"; we still get to hit refly.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FI.Snaphoo
01-28-2005, 11:34 PM
No argument there...


For the record, I'm torn on the issue. I know it's a moot point, but there is part of me that really enjoys the idea of the excitement of flying with only one life. But I can see many, many exploits of that rule. Also, as a novice, I know that my sorties are going to be shorter than most, so it's not really that appealing to me to go on a server where I will get shot to pieces within 2 minutes of arrival. But, it doesn't mean I won't keep trying.

I know that was contradictory, but like I said, I am a bit conflicted about the whole issue.

x__CRASH__x
01-29-2005, 12:10 AM
Well, I would have prefered 2 deaths, but if it has to be 1, so be it.

Fehler
01-29-2005, 12:19 AM
One of the guys I flew with tonight said he is drinking more beer these days because of all the five minute time-outs he is getting.

I suggested that he sue SPaRX for turning him into an alcoholic! ROFL!

Personally, I like the death kick-1 death option. More people are flying realistic and not sitting around a battle once they get shot up a little, and there are a lot less kamakazi base raiders as well.

Sure there are freak pilot deaths, I got rammed by a friendly the other night when I had cautiously gotten to 900 points.. That was irritating, but oh well...

But in all, I think it makes you think harder about flying, and it makes the other guy think more too. I like that a bunch!

As far as the number of people and popularity of the server goes, tonight was the first time since SPaRX made the server handle 50 planes that I was not able to connect right away. So, I guess others are interested in the server's options as well...

GoToAway
01-29-2005, 01:56 AM
I think that this is a ridiculous policy. I understand the need to rotate people in and out of the server, but all that this will accomplish is making WC a boring, unpopular server.

I had to fly around for 40 minutes tonight to find a fight. 40 minutes. Every time I made a try for somebody, they dived into the clouds and I lost them. When I finally actually did find somebody willing to do something other than run away to avoid the death kick, I was killed in the second pass by the only shell that actually hit my aircraft. That was it. No chance for a rematch. No chance to redeem myself. No chance to even congratulate the guy for his shot. Just a kick, which undoubtably made the game even slower considering that the server wasn't even half full.

As I said, this rule is ridiculous.

Some kid hops on the server and decides to start offing teammates on the ground? 5 minute ban!

Vulched the second that you spawn at the airfield? 5 minute ban!

Run over from behind by a teammate that can't control his plane or simply doesn't understand how to taxi? 5 minute ban!

Even ignoring the facts that such a rule prompts people to be overly conservative and causes some severe team balancing issues, the simple fact of the matter is that people are frequently killed on servers for stupid reasons beyond their control.

I've had a lot of fun on Warclouds lately, but I don't think that I will be playing on it anymore. The 3 death kick was a much better rule. It promoted intelligent flying and kept the pool of players fresh, yet it didn't handicap anything. I can't imagine what possessed anybody to change it.

HellToupee
01-29-2005, 02:40 AM
just think if a whole team decided to vulch instead of hiding over their base, one side would just empty.

Fehler
01-29-2005, 03:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GoToAway:
I think that this is a ridiculous policy.

I had to fly around for 40 minutes tonight to find a fight. 40 minutes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WC was designed with mission objectives in mind. Team play and strategies are important, hense SPaRX has even been nice enough to provide communications for the community as well.

Every map is designed with the idea that one side attacks, while the other defends.

The 1 death kick rule was established to discourage the kamakazi, "Lone wolf" types that often popped into the server and would follow a guy all the way back to base even if he knew he would not make it home alive. Why should he care, he can simply hit refly.

Now let's examine your statement. "I had to fly around for 40 minutes tonight to find a fight."

1. You were not on comms with other teammates, or you would have found the fight in seconds.

2. You should not have had to go looking as your side had established and well defined mission objectives.

Conclusion? That is the mentality that the 1 death ban is trying to eliminate. Try this "If" you decide to get on WC again. Try actually getting on comms and flying with your team. Try executing a plan of attack or defense and sticking with others to accomplish the goals established.

A. You will have more fun.

B. You will not be bored.

C. It wont take you 40 minutes to find action.

D. You may actually leave the experience with a sense of real WWII combat action instead of air quake.

It is quite easy to see the side that works together the best. The other side gets short handed rather fast. The other funny thing I see now is that guys that play "Lone wolf" dont live long. Guess what, that's usually the Spit, P-51, P-63 flyers. Rarely do you catch a 190, 109, P47, or P38 driver flying alone. Teamwork was important in WWII, and since WarClouds is trying to emulate that feeling as best as it can in a dogfight setting, the management felt that a 1 death kick would best fit the server's intentions.

To this, I agree.

GAU-8
01-29-2005, 03:32 AM
my sentiments exactly fehler.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

you guys NEED TO GET ON COMMS. FACT.

solo flight and not on comms is a good example of a quick death (but not always).

as for people complaining about bombers... fly realistically.... or close to it.

i was THE ONLY B-25 on WC ..started my climb away from target area to 3K, turned around, and headed to target in a slight ascent. at target area, i was at my 5K altitude i wanted to reach.

(blue DOES NOT expect B-25s at that height..because nobody flies them that high anymore) overshot my target area, had to turn back. in doing so LO AND BEHOLD... a small flight of "lil friends" essing above, behind and in front of me.

1 D-KICK matters to the teams now. every aircraft up has 1 shot..make it count. while i did not hit the targets effectively, i was able to survive 2 seperate, 2 element ship attacks(both elemtents had 109s with 108's, (thx lil friends..very effective)

i made it back home.



dont be solo.

do get on WARCLOUDS comms.i CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!

keep your eyes PEELED... if you cant find the targets/action, your NOT reading the breifings...and your not on comms. and you deffinitely are not doing YOUR part to make this server more enjoyable for yourself.

GoToAway
01-29-2005, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
The 1 death kick rule was established to discourage the kamakazi, "Lone wolf" types that often popped into the server and would follow a guy all the way back to base even if he knew he would not make it home alive. Why should he care, he can simply hit refly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, because that is exactly what I did. Thank you for making an assumption.

Actually, I decided to attempt to maintain air superiority over the allied objective simply because I am not much of a ground attack pilot and would be more of an asset to my team that way.

I never ventured anywhere near the enemy base. I simply positioned myself in an area where it would be easy to provide aid to anybody attacking the objective and to be in a position to escort them home if need be.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, not one person bothered attacking the objective during the time that I was over and around it. The only friendly that I saw was returning from the direction of the enemy base. Hmmm, I wonder what he could have been doing?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1. You were not on comms with other teammates, or you would have found the fight in seconds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, I wasn't. I don't have a microphone and frankly I have no interest in getting one. Most people convey important information through the team chat with complex phrases that take hours to type such as "bombers b5."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>2. You should not have had to go looking as your side had established and well defined mission objectives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I see. You mean that I should not have been trying to protect allied planes attempting to attack the clearly defined objective. What should I have been doing? Perhaps vulching?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Conclusion? That is the mentality that the 1 death ban is trying to eliminate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My conclusion? You decided to baselessly jump to a conclusion about what I was doing and what I wanted to get out of the game simply because I don't share your opinion on this issue.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>D. You may actually leave the experience with a sense of real WWII combat action instead of air quake. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yet another baseless assumption about what I am after when I play online.

I ALWAYS fly escort for friendly bombers when I know where they are. Always. I'll escort them home as well.

I almost ALWAYS form on somebody's wing if I see them heading towards the line alone.

I'm not looking for "air Quake." I'm looking for a game (that is what this is, a game. If you're so concerned about recreating the atmosphere of WW2 combat, I hope that you pee in your pants whenever you're in a plane without a relief tube and beat yourself in the face every time that you are hit in order to simulate injuries) in which people are not overly afraid to get into a combat situation. There's a difference between being ready for a fight and "being a lone wolf that follows people back to base."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It is quite easy to see the side that works together the best. The other side gets short handed rather fast. The other funny thing I see now is that guys that play "Lone wolf" dont live long. Guess what, that's usually the Spit, P-51, P-63 flyers. Rarely do you catch a 190, 109, P47, or P38 driver flying alone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not sure what server you're playing on, because I honestly can't think of a game on WC in the past 3 weeks in which I did not see 109s and 190s flying alone, far away from mission objectives and deep behind enemy lines.


Once again, I would like to thank you for your assumptions.

OldMan____
01-29-2005, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAU-8:
my sentiments exactly fehler.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

you guys NEED TO GET ON COMMS. FACT.

solo flight and not on comms is a good example of a quick death (but not always).

as for people complaining about bombers... fly realistically.... or close to it.

i was THE ONLY B-25 on WC ..started my climb away from target area to 3K, turned around, and headed to target in a slight ascent. at target area, i was at my 5K altitude i wanted to reach.

(blue DOES NOT expect B-25s at that height..because nobody flies them that high anymore) overshot my target area, had to turn back. in doing so LO AND BEHOLD... a small flight of "lil friends" essing above, behind and in front of me.

1 D-KICK matters to the teams now. every aircraft up has 1 shot..make it count. while i did not hit the targets effectively, i was able to survive 2 seperate, 2 element ship attacks(both elemtents had 109s with 108's, (thx lil friends..very effective)

i made it back home.



dont be solo.

do get on WARCLOUDS comms.i CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!

keep your eyes PEELED... if you cant find the targets/action, your NOT reading the breifings...and your not on comms. and you deffinitely are not doing YOUR part to make this server more enjoyable for yourself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

unfortunately when I get to use TS,.. I am usually kicked due to some package lost in WC.

Does anyone ever had this problem?

willyvic
01-29-2005, 10:10 AM
Just got out of my fifth visit since the "one-kill" went into effect. Had a blast. Was on comms. Hooked up with Junior and we patrolled our quadrant sucking in fighters and giving each other cover. Flew for bout 2 hours and had two fivers. Took that time to get more coffee, hit the head, and read this board.

Opponents acted as I would expect them to now. They gain altitude, approach in groups, and high-tail it when they are hurt. And we didn't experience the "kamikazee" frenzy prevelant on so many other servers.The were times when we were busier than all get out and there were times when we just partolled waiting for the bad guys. During the lulls we shot the bull about this and that. A very pleasurable and immersive atmosphere.

And I'll say it again, the one death kick seems to keep the kiddies in the kiddie arena.

Good job on the new script.

WV

Stiglr
01-29-2005, 11:00 AM
Well, great: it seems most people are "getting it".

The benefits greatly outweigh the inconveniences and the "unfair" deaths we all suffer (and that the real pilots suffered by the bushelful!!)

Hats off to WC for having the brass b@lls to do it!

Hristo_
01-29-2005, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HellToupee:

However i was kicked twice without warning for no apparnt reason, i used to get idle kicks on there while flying also, they really need to sort all those stupid auto kicks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, I've been autokicked as well for no apparent reason on WC, hmmmmm...

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-29-2005, 12:01 PM
If you are getting "Kicked" from the server, then you are more then likely "lagged" to the server. It would help if you told us exactly what message you get when you are disconnected. If you are kicked, it says you are kicked. If it says server "timed out" then you lost connection to the server. There are only 3 autokicks in place right now.

Pingkick: Higher then 450ms for 2 seconds

Lagkick: Lag to the server more then 1 second. You are checked twice at 1 second intervals. In other words, If you lag for 1 second, the server will check you again, if you are still lagged it will kick you.

Deathkick: need i explain this one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

I cannot guarentee that EVERYONE can play on the server. There are too many variables when dealing with internet connections and players system configs. Just because you have a good ping, does not mean you are not losing packets to the server. And there are MANY factors that cause you to drop packets.

SPaRX

PS. Stiglr, when we gonna see you on the server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

x__CRASH__x
01-29-2005, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
PS. Stiglr, when we gonna see you on the server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.fun4gamers.nl/showtime/fun/owned12.jpg

OldMan____
01-29-2005, 12:21 PM
I know SparX. I know ping alone means almost nothing.. I wrote net code for a few games already.


Just wanna know if anyone faced this problem especifically because of Team Speak. Whenever I not use it.. no problem. When I sue it, I loose connection. Sorry if used wrong word with kicked (a vey few times I was lagckied also).


Just want some feedback if anyone faced similar problems (Even TCP dump shows no difference in package sent or received inside my network, so must be something between my home and the server)

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-29-2005, 12:35 PM
I wasnt directing those comments at anyone in particular. I was just letting everyone know what settings we are running on the server to help aid in figuring out what could be the problem.

I do not know of anyone that gets D/Ced when using teamspeak specifically. But if you are having general packloss issues, this would just make the problem even worse as the Teamspeak and IL2 server are on the same box. It would be nice to have a separate server for teamspeak, FBD, FBDstats so that i could just run the il2 servers by themselves, but no way i can afford another server. This server alone costs me over $1600US per year to run. And we get just enough donations to make it affordable for me.

x__CRASH__x
01-29-2005, 01:21 PM
I've been kicked a few times for being "idol" for too long. All 3 times was when I was flying along happy as a clam.

Slick750
01-29-2005, 01:50 PM
Last time I played was short and sweet, Was on a magical landing strip floating on the water, started the engine on my "Val"... brought RPM to take off, just as I released the chocks, I get rammed by a plane in a hurry trying to take off right trough me, I was blown away with realism...I realized I just wasted alot of time for nothing. Too bad IL2 doesnt have an in-game server browser, going back to hyperlobby or ASE cause you die once is kind of boring. Besides that, I often fly bombers and I take objectives seriously, I don't mind being hit by flak hitting refly and retry the target as much as I have too. But if you have 3 guys flying bombers and 10 guys flying fighters on your team, your up **** creek once the bomber boys get kicked trying to bomb the objectives. Might be less of a problem if servers had 300 players, but I feel the whole server's losing everytime someone gets the boot. People comming in and out constanly...does that ad lag spikes too?

I understand you work hard to keep the server from being an "arcade" server but I just dont think the deathkick ads much to that matter.I see it more as a way to refresh the players inside. (gives folks a chance to join in...not always full)

HellToupee
01-29-2005, 03:49 PM
2 seconds for a lag kick sounds totally unreasonable, i ping 200average to the server i have an adsl connection, just because i might get a lag spike for 2 seconds dosnt mean i should be kicked, why on earth is it set up like that.

Also there is no excuse for the idle kicks.

steiner562
01-29-2005, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HellToupee:
Also there is no excuse for the idle kicks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry but if your idle you shouldnt be in the server in the first place,I dont know what the marker/timelimit is, but I think its correct to have this,its a popular server and when full its only fair to have that setting for people waiting outside.
regards
stein

HellToupee
01-29-2005, 04:13 PM
read my earler posts the idle kicks kick you for when not idle, others as well.

Sorry but if im in the middle of a fight i should not be kicked for being idle.

steiner562
01-29-2005, 04:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HellToupee:
read my earler posts the idle kicks kick you for when not idle, others as well.

Sorry but if im in the middle of a fight i should not be kicked for being idle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well thats different toupee for surehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-29-2005, 06:23 PM
First off, the "idle kick" is a ping kick. Remeber we are dealin with Russian Devs and english is not their first language. The ping kick is set to 450ms. If you are pinging higher then that to the server, then yes you should not be on the server.

On the same note, a 2 second lag on the server is WAY too much. If you are laggin to the server for that long you are totally messing up the sync of the server. Two second lag is the same thing as having a 2000ms ping to the server. Do you really think you should be able to play on a server with a ping like that?

Not everyone can have a good connection to the server. These settings are setup so that the server remains as playable as possible without hurting the gameplay of others. If we could make it so everyone could play on the server I would, but that is not humanly possible. We have two players from AUS that have consitant 300ms pings. They NEVER, and i repeat NEVER get ping or lag kicked. Why is that? Because their connection to the server is stable. I cannot help if yours is not.

HellToupee
01-29-2005, 11:02 PM
Why dont people read my bloody posts.

Sparx i ping 200-300 to the server. The 2 seconds is not 2000ms ping its 2 seconds with a ping greater than 450ms, just because i occasionally get a lag spike does not mean i deserve a kick.

Its a stupid setting what possible benefits can it have? sure i can understand less than 450ms as ppl over that tend to furstrating to shoot at but giving 2 seconds only over that is just wrong its not like it stuffs up the server.