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Codger1949
09-23-2007, 07:21 AM
I wanted to post this question here rather than the SimHQ CFS3 forum because all those guys are die hard fans. I thought I might get a little more objectivity here. I deleted CFS3 a year ago because it just didn't measure up to Il-2 standards, at least when it come to online play. But I've heard something about a bunch of dedicated fans developing an add on to CFS3 called Mediterranean Air War and finally releasing it. Has anybody here tried it out yet? Is it as good as the promos say?

Codger1949
09-23-2007, 07:21 AM
I wanted to post this question here rather than the SimHQ CFS3 forum because all those guys are die hard fans. I thought I might get a little more objectivity here. I deleted CFS3 a year ago because it just didn't measure up to Il-2 standards, at least when it come to online play. But I've heard something about a bunch of dedicated fans developing an add on to CFS3 called Mediterranean Air War and finally releasing it. Has anybody here tried it out yet? Is it as good as the promos say?

jayo1
09-23-2007, 09:52 AM
Yep i got it.
Pretty good so far,WIP of course but after the first patch much better.Definately worth a look.
The dev team (Desert Rats) are releasing MAW in three installments covering the whole timeframe of the med-airwar.

Codger1949
09-23-2007, 10:06 AM
Thanks. Although CFS3 didn't grab my fancy the Over Flanders Field add on was pretty good. Problem is there were hardly any online games. This M.A.W might be worth a look see if any body's playing it. Always open for variety.

amilaninia
09-23-2007, 10:47 AM
I tried MAW and found it no different from CFS3 because it is based on the same engine. Basically it is CFS3 with different looking maps and aircraft.
I have lots of respect for the developers of MAW (Dessert Rats Team); however, the livelihood and immersion you experience in Il-2 are just not there. The notion of experiencing aircraft uncommon in other WWII flight Sims may excite you at first, but it all ends once you are air borne: the ground would look like a fuzzy brownish patch while the sea would look like a large piece of blue "whatever".. with a hazy rainbowish horizon.
I found only one feature in MAW that Il-2 will never match, and that is being able to dog fight a Willys jeep or VW-typ87 (the VW- beetle)!!! FOR REAL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

leitmotiv
09-23-2007, 10:51 AM
MAW has advantages over IL-2 (6 DOF), and disadvantages (doesn't look nearly as good). They went in and fixed the crazed CFS3 flight model so it is highly competitive to IL-2 in this respect. The target detail blows IL-2 out the door. There are many bombers so, if you are a bomber fan, as I am, it is hog heaven. I haven't had a chance to try the new patches (puter in shop). I was playing it much more than IL-2 because I find IL-2 borrrrrrrrring. I do not play online so I can't help you there. I don't know what the above poster is talking about. MAW is not remotely like CFS3. And, immersion! When you can raid Benghazi through masses of searchlights, and try to find targets by dropping flares---it is the height of immersion.

joeap
09-23-2007, 03:58 PM
Hmmm what are the bombsights like in MAW? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

reisen52
09-23-2007, 04:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Hmmm what are the bombsights like in MAW? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much better then the ones on IL-2's - B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Sterling, Fw-200 Condor, Halifax, Manchester, Blenheim, Wellington & about 10 other Italian & French bombers we don't have here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Skycat_2
09-23-2007, 07:16 PM
My experience with MAW:

Enter your aircraft. Hit the gas, leave the runway .5 seconds later. Chase around a UFOish AI plane and blast at him with all your ammunition for half an hour. Run out of bullets and watch him fly away with a light trail of smoke.

To each his own but outside of sightseeing in the excellent Bf109E, I personally found very little to hold my interest. I completely removed MAW after a week or so.

leitmotiv
09-23-2007, 07:31 PM
Can't say I had the same experience, Skycat.

As for the bombsight, it is abstracted, but what of it? The system in IL-2 is abstracted, too. You have to fly and bomb, which is ridiculous. IL-2 should have had a capability for you to play as a dedicated bombardier. Trying to fly and use a bombsight is like juggling with one arm.

If you enjoy rip-roaring bomber missions, whether level-bombing Benghazi through nasty flak, or diving into the maelstrom to hit the docks on the deck, or torpedoing the Italian dreadnoughts in the dead of night in a remarkable Taranto scenario, or going after Allied shipping in an Fw 200, MAW whips IL-2 hands-down for variety of flyable bombers.

MAW is a fine project. With 6 DOF, it is far more immersive than IL-2.

If you are a dedicated IL-2 player, you may not go for it, but if you want something different, it may fit the bill.

Codger1949
09-23-2007, 07:42 PM
Pluses and minuses but it does sound interesting. I really enjoy the bombing scene. Might be just the ticket for a little change of pace. Thanks for the replies folks.

reisen52
09-23-2007, 09:01 PM
Some non-immersive MAW screenshots

http://www.medairwar.com/maw/uni/nig-04b.jpg
http://www.medairwar.com/maw/uni/nig-05b.jpg
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r227/corpse_grinder1977/Shot06-26-07-21-31-07.jpg

VonGrantoven
09-23-2007, 09:17 PM
I don't know whether I would agree that it is more immersive than some of the Campaigns in IL-2, but it is definitely an amazing leap beyond the stock CFS3 and well worth checking out.

jayo1
09-24-2007, 02:52 PM
Beautifully illustrated reisen52!!!
totally non-immersive! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

codger1949 you mentioned Over Flanders Fields,gotta say im SERIOUSLY addicted to that mod,apart from the onscreen radar there is little to suggest this is using the cfs3 engine,looks and feels like a seperate sim.If anyones got cfs3 and the space i recommend giving O.F.F a go,the skins alone take up a gig!

joeap
09-24-2007, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by reisen52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Hmmm what are the bombsights like in MAW? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much better then the ones on IL-2's - B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Sterling, Fw-200 Condor, Halifax, Manchester, Blenheim, Wellington & about 10 other Italian & French bombers we don't have here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on, I said bombsights not bombers. CFS3 bombsights are laughably primitive. Did they really make realistic bombsights? I don't see the point of all those bombers otherwise IMHO.

reisen52
09-24-2007, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Come on, I said bombsights not bombers. CFS3 bombsights are laughably primitive. Did they really make realistic bombsights? I don't see the point of all those bombers otherwise IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you should be perfectly happy with IL-2 not having any player flyable heavies.

http://home.nc.rr.com/reisen52/b171.jpg
http://home.nc.rr.com/reisen52/b173.jpg http://home.nc.rr.com/reisen52/b172.jpg

joeap
09-24-2007, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by reisen52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Come on, I said bombsights not bombers. CFS3 bombsights are laughably primitive. Did they really make realistic bombsights? I don't see the point of all those bombers otherwise IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you should be perfectly happy with IL-2 not having any player flyable heavies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for not addressing my point or my question. Last time, what are MAW's bombsights like? Forget the heavies, what about the Stuka's? Anything like the stuvi sight we have now? Yes or no?

reisen52
09-24-2007, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Thanks for not addressing my point or my question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You welcome.

I was just finding it interesting to see how far you wanted to go in saying you don't want 15 or so flyable heavies with fully player usable gun stations because you don't like the CFS3 bombsight.

I remember a lot of threads here where guys were more then willing to give up gun stations, bombardier & everything else to get player flyable heavies into the game.

Will have to take a look at the Stuka when I get home but IIRC it just has a normal gunsight that moves around from G forces on the pilots head. Don't think it has anything special for the bombs except for some dive degree markings on the canopy.

leitmotiv
09-24-2007, 05:57 PM
May I ask what is so laudable about the IL-2 bombing system? When you have to fly and be the bombardier, the system is laughable. MAW is dedicated to flying with no half measures for bombing---the bomb sight bombing is abstracted to keep the focus on flying. When somebody finally has a dedicated bombardier position with an AI or live pilot to bring you to the bomb run and hand over control for the bomb run, then you have a realistic bombing system. IL-2's system is not satisfactory. I haven't used the MAW Ju 87 so I can't address this matter.

Bearcat99
09-24-2007, 06:39 PM
The worse thing about MAW or OFF or the Korean thing... was , for me at least CFS3. After more than enough attempts since the day CFS3 was released on the market... the very first day I have tried to like CFS3, but for me at least that dog just wont hunt. Others may7 feel different about it... and I say more power to them.. but for me... it is still the same old CFS3... which isnt saying much. For ME.

joeap
09-25-2007, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
May I ask what is so laudable about the IL-2 bombing system? When you have to fly and be the bombardier, the system is laughable. MAW is dedicated to flying with no half measures for bombing---the bomb sight bombing is abstracted to keep the focus on flying. When somebody finally has a dedicated bombardier position with an AI or live pilot to bring you to the bomb run and hand over control for the bomb run, then you have a realistic bombing system. IL-2's system is not satisfactory. I haven't used the MAW Ju 87 so I can't address this matter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can do that online can't you?? Anyway level AP works fine for me...when dive bombing with the Stuka and Ju-88 with Stuvi the pilot drops the bombs like in RL. Oh and reisen it's the model B that has a normal gunsight but not the D model which has the Stuvi. The Ju-88 also has this bombsight.

Anyway...whatever floats your boat...I myself would not want to fly a heavy from external view or WW view but if someone else wants to fine.

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-25-2007, 04:33 AM
Still feels like the scenery is moving instead of the plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-25-2007, 04:37 AM
I do not understand why some of you have to right away start with the IL-2 vs CFS3 ****. The original poster ask a simple question. He did not ask how it compares to IL2 or what does what better. He ask if its any good, as good as the promo claims. Some just can not help themselves from turning a simple question into a hijacking flamefest.

The only true way for you to find out is to try it. You obviously can not take the word of someone else because everyone has different taste. So thats my advice to you.

S!

msalama
09-25-2007, 04:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Still feels like the scenery is moving instead of the plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A common problem w/ all MS sims, that.

Codger1949
09-25-2007, 04:47 AM
Is there much multiplayer action with MAW or is it mostly about flying missions?

leitmotiv
09-25-2007, 08:06 AM
What are you talking about Joeap? The IL-2 level bombing system is the same offline and online. You are still flying the airplane and trying to set up a bombing solution.

joeap
09-25-2007, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
What are you talking about Joeap? The IL-2 level bombing system is the same offline and online. You are still flying the airplane and trying to set up a bombing solution. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I probably am wrong, but I thought in coops one person could be the pilot and another the gunner so I "***-umed" one person could be the pilot and another the bombadier...but I am now thinking given how it works now that is not possible.

If it isn't possible than my bad...and shame on Oleg for not providing this possibility.

jayo1
09-25-2007, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Codger1949:
Is there much multiplayer action with MAW or is it mostly about flying missions? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes m8 there is a fair bit of multplayer both sides of the pond.Suggest checking out the soh forum for contact with those hosting M.P sessions.

reisen52
09-25-2007, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Oh and reisen it's the model B that has a normal gunsight but not the D model which has the Stuvi. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree, all 11 JU-87's in MAW are B models & are identified as such in the plane selection screen. Later models will come with later chapters of MAW.

leitmotiv
09-25-2007, 11:57 AM
No denying IL-2 has at least a sop to realistic level bombing. The MAW Ju 88A-4 cockpit, in its current incarnation, is extremely crude compared to the IL-2 88. Dive bombing the IL-2 88 is one of the sim's pleasures.

Codger1949
09-25-2007, 12:04 PM
[/QUOTE]
Yes m8 there is a fair bit of multplayer both sides of the pond.Suggest checking out the soh forum for contact with those hosting M.P sessions.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, please define "soh". Thanks

reisen52
09-25-2007, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Codger1949:
Sorry, please define "soh". Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Codger1949
09-25-2007, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by reisen52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Codger1949:
Sorry, please define "soh". Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?f=7 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SOH, of course. I forgot that THIS is the real gathering hole for the CFS3 blokes.

nealn
09-25-2007, 02:12 PM
Have to agree with Bearcat on this one.
Though I admire the work and effort put in by te MAW team, it is still CFS3 which says it all for me as well. Since I actually purchased it and paid good money for that piece of **** I am entitled to my opinion. Tried it, removed it from my hard drive an gave away the disc. Nuff said.

Neal