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IL2LuckyStrikes
07-07-2008, 07:31 AM
Hi All,

I tried flying a mission the other day, with realistic weather settings, and the winds were very strong.

No matter what I tried, I was unable to keep my airplane on the runway to take off.

Can anyone offer any helpful tips on how to counter this?

I tried locking the tail wheel and using full opposite rudder + brakes, but just couldn't pull it off.

Thank you.

IL2LuckyStrikes
07-07-2008, 07:31 AM
Hi All,

I tried flying a mission the other day, with realistic weather settings, and the winds were very strong.

No matter what I tried, I was unable to keep my airplane on the runway to take off.

Can anyone offer any helpful tips on how to counter this?

I tried locking the tail wheel and using full opposite rudder + brakes, but just couldn't pull it off.

Thank you.

rnzoli
07-07-2008, 07:44 AM
Wait until better weather http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Actually, give it another try without locking the tail wheel. The tailwheel lock will negate your efforts using the differential brakes, while it may be insufficient to prevent the heavy winds blowing you off the runway.

IL2LuckyStrikes
07-07-2008, 08:58 AM
Hi rnzoli,

Waiting for better weather would be ideal! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I did try it using opposite rudder without the tail wheel locked but ended up still not being able to take off.

What amazes me is that the AI aircraft in front of me are unaffected? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

rnzoli
07-07-2008, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What amazes me is that the AI aircraft in front of me are unaffected? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bloody annoying, isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But it's true. AI aircraft are not affected by this (and turbulence in general), because of saving CPU cycles. It is simply assumed that the AI pilots are able to compensate, without actually a CPU routine injecting wind effects onto the AI plane, another CPU routine pressing the pedals of the AI plane to complesate for the same thing...

I have flown a very remarkable Me-262 mission online, set forth in such terrible weather. Although AI takes of without problems, I and the other human pilots were in deep trouble. From that experience, I learnt that the biggest problem is oscillation, i.e., crosswind coming from right, so compensating with right rudder will swing the nose to the right, then I let it up a bit, swings back, and the swings become bigger and bigger. So instead of looking where the nose is pointing, I am trying to see where is the middle of the plane in relation to the runway edges and do very very quick pedal corrections, like short pulses. That way I was able to take off, but that's half of the story, landing in one piece never happened to me, due to departing the rwy on the landing roll.

PS. Here is the link, you can try that as well,
http://161.53.204.25/server/cmirko_mission_briefings/SO/06/01_blue.html
the nose-gear arrangement of the Me-262 gives a little bit better view and understanding how the wind effects your plane.

IL2LuckyStrikes
07-07-2008, 09:22 AM
I'll try your advice on short pulses.

The major issue was simply holding the aircraft lined up straight on the runway using brakes and rudder for as soon as I let go of the brakes I was immediately pushed to the left and almost into the hangers.

Those AI made me feel horrible as they took off rather effortlessly.

Thank you for the link rnzoli http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
07-07-2008, 09:42 AM
This happens to me, so at the start of the mission, I literally stand on the brakes to prevent the wind from blowing me right off the runway before I could start the engines. Still, there will be a minor nose offset to the left (when the wind is blowing from the right).

Since I am doing some work on my rudder electronics, I was actually thinking about re-flying that mission on the server, and see if new, more precise pedals help me or not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you are in European timezone, we might try to fly it together, if you are online capable (4.08 version, clean install, WinXP). The last time it was hilarious experience, when a bunch of (4) inexperienced people tried it, and exploded left right and center of the airfield in the beginning. Somehow it wasn't a sour experience and we were cheering everyone who got along and lifted off. Good for training, but on the other hand, thanks God it's a game and not reality.

buzzsaw1939
07-07-2008, 10:32 AM
rnzoli.... I don't think your understanding the wind effects on a plane, or you got cunfused when you wrote it.

if the wind is comeing from the right, the plane will swing (weather vane) to the right, and you need to compensate with left rudder. the only way I can tell the wind direction in game, is by the planes reaction! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IL2LuckyStrikes
07-07-2008, 11:55 AM
rnzoli, Thank you for the invite. I am in the US so let me know how it went.

As for holding the brakes until your engine starts, please let me know your next steps.



buzzsaw1939, I may be wrong, but as you are looking out of the cockpit, my aircraft was being pushed to the left from winds coming from the Pilot's right hand side.

I have a twist-rudder joystick and turned it to the right to try to counteract this for takeoff but was unsuccessful.

buzzsaw1939
07-07-2008, 12:27 PM
MMM... I'm questioning how you know the wind direction, I've never seen a wind sock or flag that was indecateing it properly in game.

If your nose swings left, then you are in a left crosswind, (think weather vane) on tail, thats how it works in the real world.

you are useing your rudder properly in any case, like I think rnzoli said, turn off your tailwheel lock for these conditions, you may be haveing a torqe problem, some planes are over modeled with it, some shouldn't have it at all, like the b-25, it's not right!

Good luck! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

IL2LuckyStrikes
07-07-2008, 01:06 PM
Thank you buzzsaw1939 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fabianfred
07-07-2008, 06:49 PM
FYI there is a wind mod at AAA

you add a few line to the end of the mission file setting the strength (in feet per second) and direction

it starts to take effect as your speed reaches a certin level on tak-off...and also stops as you land and reduce your speed..

very useful for carrier take-offs with loaded planes and much better than increasing the carrier speed to silly levels...

AI have problems with it because they were not taught about wind...but it certainly reduces their bombing accuracy

In the situation you mention in the first post...I usually change to autopilot for take-off (if it is a part of an important campaign)

Bit strong wind here....

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/0707200815-53-25.jpg

WTE_Galway
07-07-2008, 09:05 PM
IRL you would also be pushing the stick in the direction of the wind as well to counteract that wing lifting and a ground loop ensuing ... not sure how much difference it makes in game but I do it anyway out of habit.

You will also notice that once you get speed up the tendency to weathervane reduces but your entire aircraft gets blown sideways downwind.

buzzsaw1939
07-08-2008, 12:33 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Right on! you can see it in my tracks! old habbit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

rnzoli
07-08-2008, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
rnzoli.... I don't think your understanding the wind effects on a plane, or you got cunfused when you wrote it.

if the wind is comeing from the right, the plane will swing (weather vane) to the right, and you need to compensate with left rudder. the only way I can tell the wind direction in game, is by the planes reaction! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, yes, you're right, I got confused. Now I realize that it's the tail (vertical stabilizer) that gets swung around, so the plane will turn into the wind. Correct?

rnzoli
07-08-2008, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
You will also notice that once you get speed up the tendency to weathervane reduces but your entire aircraft gets blown sideways downwind. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This might just explain the oscillation I am seeing.

rnzoli
07-08-2008, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IL2LuckyStrikes:
As for holding the brakes until your engine starts, please let me know your next steps.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>I will try to record a track (still haven't got around the re-wiring). IIRC I ingnite both engines and gently trottle up, then release the brakes slowly, try to keep the aircraft straight in the beginning of the takeoff roll. Later on, as the aircraft accelerates, it becomes more controllable with the rudder, but in the beginning, it still needs brakes to keep it straight.

buzzsaw1939
07-09-2008, 10:08 AM
Yup! into the wind,.....unless your in a Wright flyer! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

rnzoli
07-10-2008, 03:28 AM
Is there one already created in IL-2? Man, these guys over there on the dark side (read: background color of their site) are FAST.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif