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Prop_Strike
02-10-2006, 08:34 PM
Hey Guys.....couple of quesions for the experts.

What sort of engine is in the in-game Tempest we now have.....sounds friggen awesome when you kick the wep in the guts! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Also, is the Merlin in the 25lb Spit the same one from the regular MK IXc/e just boosted more?
If so, what is the boost on the regular Spits we're used to?
P.S How long can you keep the boost going in the new 25lb Spit without hurting the engine...and how does it compare to real life?

Thanks guys.....good flying! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Prop_Strike
02-10-2006, 08:34 PM
Hey Guys.....couple of quesions for the experts.

What sort of engine is in the in-game Tempest we now have.....sounds friggen awesome when you kick the wep in the guts! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Also, is the Merlin in the 25lb Spit the same one from the regular MK IXc/e just boosted more?
If so, what is the boost on the regular Spits we're used to?
P.S How long can you keep the boost going in the new 25lb Spit without hurting the engine...and how does it compare to real life?

Thanks guys.....good flying! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Chuck_Older
02-10-2006, 08:38 PM
Without picking up my ref...my memory says the Tempest has a 24 cylinder Napier-Sabre engine

a problematic engine, more or less, in real life

~edit

I just recalled- the Napier-Sabre was problematic in part because of it's design...someone can correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall it being an "H" type engine, akin to two 12 cylinder horizontally opposed or "boxer" engines mated together at the crankcase.

English engine makers seem to have been fascinated by this concept...British Racing Motors used an H-16 in the '60s in F1...and Jimmy Clark drove Lotuses (Lotii?) with that H-16...Lotus eventually decided on a Ford-Cosworth engine of similar concept that actually worked reliably and well, called the "Double Four Valve" or DFV. A small, compact 3.0 liter V-8 that was the winningest engine in F1 history until quite recently, it debuted in '67 and powered the mighty Lotus 49 in it's debut at Zandvoort- which Clark handily won driving one of the Lotus 49s with the DFV stuck in it's tail, thank you very much http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


other Tempest marks used a Centaurus...and perhaps a Griffon??

gx-warspite
02-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Napier Sabre II is the engine in the Tempest. Very problematic design for many years, but it did fulfill its potential in the Tempest.

The engine in the Spitfires is still the trusty Merlin (Merlin 70 to be specific, I believe). It should be identical to the one in earlier Spitfires, it just has the benefit of higher octane fuel (150 octane to be specific, compared to 100) and can run more boost. Regular Spit 9s run 16lbs. I believe the Spit5 is 7lbs but don't quote me on that.

VW-IceFire
02-10-2006, 08:47 PM
The Tempest V we have in game has a Naiper Sabre Mark IIA Sleve Valve Inline Engine. Its rated at around 2200hp and presently uses +9lb boost. Later models of the Mark V also had a Sabre IIB and those were commonly boosted to +11lbs starting around December 1944.

Pierre Closterman's last Tempest...the famous JF-E "Le Grande Charles" was a late model modification with a Sabre IIC engine and Rotol propeller and it ran at +13lbs of boost. This was not the typical Tempest.

The +25lb boost Spitfire IXc we have is a standard Spitfire LF.IXc with Merlin 66 engine...just using 150 octane fuel to allow for higher boost pressures. Its exactly the same engine with no modification...just taking a different grade of fuel.

@Chuck: The early Sabre's proved to be a big problem on the Typhoons but it wasn't really because of the engine. The design was later to be found as quite robust. Most of the problems were with the ground crews maintaining the engines as they were trained on Merlins and the Sabre was a completely different style of inline engine. There were problems...but by 1944 they were essentially worked out.

Except for some dust issues operating from ill prepared strips on the continent and the Sabre's unwillingness to behave without serious maitenence in very cold temperatures during the winter months it was fine.

Prop_Strike
02-10-2006, 09:03 PM
Thanks guys.....Ace flyers and knowledgable gents Eh?!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
I knew you guys wouldn't let me down!!

Well, off to fly our new uberplanes...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

p1ngu666
02-10-2006, 09:27 PM
ill dig up abit i have on the napier sabre soon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
02-10-2006, 10:27 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8307.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8307.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8308.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8309.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8310.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8311.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8312.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8313.jpg

me looking awful by the 1 ton monster

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//pinguandnapire.jpg

Prop_Strike
02-10-2006, 10:50 PM
Wow cool....thanks a lot for that Pingu. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ATLAS_DEATH
02-10-2006, 11:53 PM
p1ingu- Thanks for posting that. It was an awesome read... When do we get the 45lb boost? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

WTE_Ibis
02-11-2006, 12:08 AM
Thanks Pingu great read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

luftluuver
02-11-2006, 12:14 AM
Google image search turns up all kinds of things.

http://user.tninet.se/~qbc513r/sabre.gif (http://user.tninet.se/%7Eqbc513r/sabre.gif)
http://freeweb.supereva.com/gurzo/motori.htm?p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Sabre
http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/aircraft/tempest/sabre/ (http://www.eagle.ca/%7Eharry/aircraft/tempest/sabre/)

WOLFMondo
02-11-2006, 03:08 AM
The Sabre is great engine. If only it had RR's funding! I don't know how a Spitfire would have dealt with a 2000lbs engine though!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The Tempest V we have in game has a Naiper Sabre Mark IIA Sleve Valve Inline Engine. Its rated at around 2200hp and presently uses +9lb boost. Later models of the Mark V also had a Sabre IIB and those were commonly boosted to +11lbs starting around December 1944. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At 9lbs a Sabre IIA puts out at peak 2380HP at 6000ft AFAIk

OldMan____
02-11-2006, 04:47 AM
Current 25lb spit, can hold at sea level a max power (crimeia) for 6 minutes ans 23 seconds.

skabbe
02-11-2006, 07:07 AM
even though i think the tempest is a bit slow and turns better then i expected i love it for its gun-platform and how everything fits my hand. The sabre engine was robust as ice-fire says. I hope Oleg programed a good maintanens team.

Also, me against 4 Ai ace p51-III with tempest. 1 minute all down. 4 Fw-190 -9, 2 minutes all down. La-7 same thing.

though i want the 11+ boost.

VW-IceFire
02-11-2006, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The Sabre is great engine. If only it had RR's funding! I don't know how a Spitfire would have dealt with a 2000lbs engine though!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The Tempest V we have in game has a Naiper Sabre Mark IIA Sleve Valve Inline Engine. Its rated at around 2200hp and presently uses +9lb boost. Later models of the Mark V also had a Sabre IIB and those were commonly boosted to +11lbs starting around December 1944. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At 9lbs a Sabre IIA puts out at peak 2380HP at 6000ft AFAIk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh even better. Some of the details I can't get in off the top of my head http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ruy Horta
02-11-2006, 07:56 AM
Pingu,

Please share the full title etc of that book.

Thanks.

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 08:00 AM
"the power to fly" by LJK setright

yeah, its a cool book http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

luftluuver
02-11-2006, 08:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The Sabre is great engine. If only it had RR's funding! I don't know how a Spitfire would have dealt with a 2000lbs engine though!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The Tempest V we have in game has a Naiper Sabre Mark IIA Sleve Valve Inline Engine. Its rated at around 2200hp and presently uses +9lb boost. Later models of the Mark V also had a Sabre IIB and those were commonly boosted to +11lbs starting around December 1944. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At 9lbs a Sabre IIA puts out at peak 2380HP at 6000ft AFAIk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/sabrecurve.jpg

Just under 2200hp between 6-7000ft.

skabbe
02-11-2006, 08:50 AM
are we sure its the 9+ boost engine we got?

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 09:01 AM
yeah
think its modeled on the series I http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Yak_Ace
02-11-2006, 09:43 AM
Regardless of Tempest's engine reliability Allied virtual fighters have already got a plane on which they can effectively shoot down Dora!
And that is a greatest news about flyable Tempest! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 03:53 PM
bump

BerkshireHunt
02-12-2006, 06:27 PM
Strangely, those pages scanned by Pingu do not refer to the man who actually designed the Sabre. He was Frank (later Sir Frank) Halford.
At the age of 21 in 1915 he was released from war service to work with Harry Ricardo on improvements to British aero engine design (until then dominated by the French at Hispano Suiza). When WW1 ended he set up his own company to act as an engine design consultant. The young prodigy (for that's what he was) worked for many British aircraft companies over the years that followed, but mainly for De Havilland. In 1928 he was approached by Sir Montague Napier to design a series of engines for his company to build. This firm had been famous for producing the Lion series of aero engines which had powered various World Land Speed Record holding cars such as the Golden Arrow, Blue Bird and the Railton Special. By the late twenties, however, Napier were in decline. Halford stepped in - and within twelve months all the engines being produced by Napier were Halford designs. They were all horizontally opposed 12 cylinder engines (half a Sabre, in effect), but air cooled.. Napier's fortunes were revived and, in 1935, Halford persuaded the Air Ministry to fund the development of a 2000 hp engine. He designed and drew the Sabre and pulled out all the stops. He decided to use sleeve valves because of their simplicity of operation - though they were hard to manufacture. (He had invented the sleeve valve in about 1918, when working with Ricardo!) Against his better judgement, during WW2, Halford agreed to take a seat on the board of Napiers. He had a horror of being a salaried employee, and throughout his entire service with Napiers had always refused to go on the regular payroll, preferring instead to remain an independent consultant.
In 1944, with the Sabre at last reliable he left the company to take up a post as Chief Engine Designer at De Havilland. He had been designing and testing a gas turbine engine for De Havilland at the same time as trying to remedy the Sabre's problems for Napier (!). The gas turbine he designed in 1941 was dubbed the 'Halford H1' and was the result of Halford's discussions with Frank Whittle. In many ways it was a better engine than Whittle's own and it was immediately put into production by De Havilland as the Goblin (which powered the DH Vampire prototype in 1944 and the P80 Shooting Star prototype) and later developed as the highly-successful Ghost, in the DH Venom and DH Comet airliner.
After the war, Halford set about designing a series of gas turbines to rejuvenate De Havilland's fortunes. He came up with the Gyron Junior (which was fitted to the Blackburn Buccaneer) and designed an enormous engine of 27,000lbs thrust (the Gyron) which was intended for a Hawker jet fighter project that was later cancelled by the British Government. This engine was built and run in 1953 and was more powerful than the Bristol Olympus designed 3 years later.
Halford retired in the late 'fifties - a rich man.
The Government forced the British aircraft engine companies to merge: Armstrong Siddeley, Bristol Aero Engines and DH Engines merged in 1961 to form Bristol Siddeley. Some of Halford's team ended up working on the Bristol Siddeley Olympus, inherited from Bristol Aero Engines and later fitted to Concorde.

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 09:40 PM
all the books i have dont have much on the sabre's beginnings, actully that text is the best ive got on the sabre.

i did wonder about writing a book about napier, as no one seems to have done it yet

luftluuver
02-12-2006, 09:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
all the books i have dont have much on the sabre's beginnings, actully that text is the best ive got on the sabre.

i did wonder about writing a book about napier, as no one seems to have done it yet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Chap. 6 of G White's book "Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of WW2" ISBN1-56091-655-9 is about Napier engines and includes some history.

p1ngu666
02-12-2006, 10:58 PM
didnt know that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

i wouldnt mind a book on merlins, just the different types and cut aways and stuff too. i presume one like that is about, but never really looked

WOLFMondo
02-13-2006, 02:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The Sabre is great engine. If only it had RR's funding! I don't know how a Spitfire would have dealt with a 2000lbs engine though!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The Tempest V we have in game has a Naiper Sabre Mark IIA Sleve Valve Inline Engine. Its rated at around 2200hp and presently uses +9lb boost. Later models of the Mark V also had a Sabre IIB and those were commonly boosted to +11lbs starting around December 1944. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At 9lbs a Sabre IIA puts out at peak 2380HP at 6000ft AFAIk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/tempest/sabrecurve.jpg

Just under 2200hp between 6-7000ft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weird, I've seen other performance charts which show different HP ratings. Maybe its the gear ratio or something which was changed as the 11lbs boost one is different on that chart to the HP it puts out on others.