PDA

View Full Version : Tips for landing a Tempest?



Ba5tard5word
12-26-2008, 10:26 PM
Man, I cannot get the hang of landing these. By now I can land pretty much any other fighter with ease. But this one I try to do what I usually do to land, and I bounce up in the air like 20 feet.

What's the best way to come in? What throttle, speed, angle is best? Does using trim up or down help at all?

I've been able to land ok a couple times but only randomly after bouncing up and down a couple times without smashing my landing gear to bits.

Aviar
12-27-2008, 07:50 AM
For me, I usually engage full elevator trim UP on my final approach and then drop the throttle to almost 0% just as you are about to touchdown.

Basically, you have to keep the nose way up on your landing.

Aviar

dirkpit7
12-27-2008, 08:20 AM
Definitely use trim to help keeping the nose up, especially at the final stages of landing. I would keep the speed above 200km/h on approach and touch down at 180-200km/h.

A safe way to land is to touch down with the main wheels first, three pointers are hard to do. Try to float over the runway and when low enough simply drop the wheels down on the ground.

RPMcMurphy
12-27-2008, 12:34 PM
The Tempest is hard to land.
It sucks.
It has that opposite-turning prop and it tends to balloon when you get down to where ground effect would be. I'm trying to make a coolguy mister hotdog perfect landing video using the Tempest, but I havent been able to yet. I always get some kind of little bounce atleast. I come in steep and fast with full flaps, crossing the threshhold at about 120 kts, then I gently set it down going very easy and making very small movements of the stick. Sort-of just fly it to the graound but cutting power just before my wheels touch and use rudder for when that engine torque goes away.

Ba5tard5word
12-27-2008, 02:07 PM
Hmm...

Well I tried some more last night, and watched an AI pilot land one as well.

Seems like one somewhat consistent way to do it is to come in as slow as possible with the nose high up so you just slowly float down, and try and hit the ground with the tail first...still hard to do without making the nose dip down suddenly and bouncing up in the air, or crushing the tailwheel.

lbuchele
12-27-2008, 09:33 PM
Tempests are not that difficult to land in the game.
Try Me 109G and you will love the Tempest at landing.
In RL, they kill a lot of pilots attempting to land and at take off too,because it´s massive torque caused by the huge propellor and massive power.
In Pierre Clostermann´s book "The Big Circus" he describes his first flight in the beast (his baptism was in a Typhoon, actually)
Just before his first take-off a fellow pilot just smashed in the ground and burned alive on the wreckage after his Tempest do a bump and flip over.
Just imagine you in his place , having to do the first take-off in that monster with the smell of burned flesh still in his nostrils...

mortoma
12-27-2008, 09:42 PM
Hmmmm, I have never found any plane in this sim hard to land. But I have not flown the Tempest for a long time. There is one plane I think ( for me anyway ) that is the hardest to land and that's Pzl-11. It's not really all that hard but it's the hardest for me. Planes with a poor view like the Fiat G.50 can be tough but would be a cinch if you could actually see something.

I'll have to revisit the Tempest to see if I could come up with some tips.

lbuchele
12-27-2008, 09:46 PM
For me , Me 109 was a hard one, but even so, just ocasionally I messed up on landing.
Things improved A LOT for me since I have bought TrackIR4 one month ago.

mortoma
12-29-2008, 12:28 PM
I tried the landing Tempest after a couple of QMB missions. Seems to land about the same as every other plane in the sim. But since landing methods vary as much as personalities it's hard for me to figure this stuff out. Since it was so similar to other planes to me I can offer no input.

Some mention 109s being hard to land but to me they are astonishingly easy. I love landing them, very easy to get a perfect 3-point landing in any 109 type for me. It's just that everybody is so different in technique.

I did notice one thing different about the Tempest the way I land them. Seems to "jostle" from side to side a little bit ( I.E., one wheel hits, it bounces up, the other hits, so on so forth. ) Seems to happen even if initially both wheels touch down at the same time. However it was a slight thing and posed no problem for me.

Ba5tard5word
12-29-2008, 01:12 PM
With any other plane I generally just come in flat and slow, and I hit the ground and stay flat, but the Tempest pretty much always bounces up like 50 feet in the air...need more practice.

Tully__
12-29-2008, 05:02 PM
If you're bouncing it's very likely that your touchdown speed is too high. This will cause you to land with your tailwheel well off the ground. The impact will swing the tail down, increasing your angle of attack and lift causing the plane to lift off the ground again. Slow down your approach some and keep trying.

Sillius_Sodus
12-29-2008, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Hmmmm, I have never found any plane in this sim hard to land. But I have not flown the Tempest for a long time. There is one plane I think ( for me anyway ) that is the hardest to land and that's Pzl-11. It's not really all that hard but it's the hardest for me. Planes with a poor view like the Fiat G.50 can be tough but would be a cinch if you could actually see something.

I'll have to revisit the Tempest to see if I could come up with some tips.

Funny, I find the G50 the easiest plane in the sim to land. On the other hand I break a lot of props trying to land the Beaufighter.

CloCloZ
12-30-2008, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Tully__:
If you're bouncing it's very likely that your touchdown speed is too high. This will cause you to land with your tailwheel well off the ground. The impact will swing the tail down, increasing your angle of attack and lift causing the plane to lift off the ground again. Slow down your approach some and keep trying.

I'm still so bad in landing Tempest that I'm not in the position to give any good advice! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But I can say that my main shortcoming usually is in keeping final landing speed too low.
"Tempest V Pilot Notes" (the RL manual) says that the final landing speed should be 110-115 mph (177-185 km/h) but I've found that for me (i.e. for my poor skill ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) it's very, very dangerous to land at less than 200-210 km/h, I usually stall at 10 meters height when I try to land at 190 km/h.
So, I'm not sure that lowering touchdown speed could be a good thing, maybe a little bit bouncing and a "long" landing is better than risking to crash the undercarriage.
But I have to repeat that I'm a lousy "Tempest lander", maybe the advice could work well for better pilots.
Well, I think I'll made some more landing practice these days ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

mortoma
12-30-2008, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
Hmmmm, I have never found any plane in this sim hard to land. But I have not flown the Tempest for a long time. There is one plane I think ( for me anyway ) that is the hardest to land and that's Pzl-11. It's not really all that hard but it's the hardest for me. Planes with a poor view like the Fiat G.50 can be tough but would be a cinch if you could actually see something.

I'll have to revisit the Tempest to see if I could come up with some tips.

Funny, I find the G50 the easiest plane in the sim to land. On the other hand I break a lot of props trying to land the Beaufighter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The G.50 is easy to land in sense, you just can't see anything after your tail is down. That's what makes it hard for me. I like to be able to see taxiways and such. I consider the whole experience, everything up to engine shut down to be a "landing". Not being able to see to get to a parking spot is a deal breaker for me. And external views is a no-no.

TX-Gunslinger
12-30-2008, 05:23 PM
My best Tempest landing tricks....
in this track...

https://webspace.utexas.edu/joem/track%20file%20posts/T...lip-right-final.ntrk (https://webspace.utexas.edu/joem/track%20file%20posts/TX-Tempest-landing-slip-right-final.ntrk)

Track starts with Tempest at 1390 meters. Airfield is at 5'oclock low. High angle approach with large amounts of forward slip, purposely introduced in order to manage/control rate of descent by increasing energy bleed. Tempest has very large control surfaces which help it hold slip angle, as long as torque is managed.

Note throttle use just prior to two point touchdown. Small, short throttle ups to stablize AOA at a shallow angle just prior to touchdown (note VSI also).

Wheels down, 1:45 secs.

S~

Gunny

Ba5tard5word
12-30-2008, 07:00 PM
^
How do I run that video?

TX-Gunslinger
12-30-2008, 07:49 PM
Copy or move the file to your /Il-2 Sturmovik 1946/records directory.

Start the game. Select "Play Track" - select the track file labeled "TX-Tempest-landing-slip-right-final.ntrk" and play.

S~

Gunny

mortoma
12-30-2008, 08:19 PM
I still find it strange people are having trouble landing the Tempest or have to resort to strange landing techniques. I don't have to slip anything in this sim in order to land it. But if it works for people, that's cool. I'll probably never know what it is people are doing wrong.

I think I'll post a track to show how I land it!
Shouldn't have to slip anything unless you're trying to bleed excess speed or scrub too much altitude. I just line up the Tempest and run down a normal 3 to 5 degree glideslope like I do anything. It's easier to land than a real life Cessna Skyhawk IMHO.

Ba5tard5word
12-30-2008, 09:05 PM
thanks TX, I'll check it out.


I've tried a few times more now, and it definitely seems like slowest is best...35% throttle at landing at around 160 km/h with the nose tipped up a bit seems to work well without causing the giant bounces, and if I do accidentally bounce it's easier to get the plane to settle down.

Still tricky compared to other planes though.

TX-EcoDragon
12-31-2008, 06:40 PM
I would say that the Tempest is more challenging to wheel land than to three point.

The wheel landing requires you touch down with pretty much zero descent rate to keep from bouncing (as Tully already described). This is true in any tailwheel, but the Tempest is a particularly good example compared to many other IL-2 aircraft which will allow a bit firmer touchdown without a bounce resulting.

If you come in a bit slower, and touch down in a tail low "three point" attitude, or even tailwheel first, it will touchdown very nicely and stick without a bounce. The latter does require good slow flight skills, but I think it's much more consistent than the wheel landings.

What you describe sounds like you are approaching a bit too fast, and touching down a bit too hard. The probable reason that the landings turn out OK after a few bounces is because you are now slower, and will be landing with the tail lower, closer to the three point attitude, and perhaps also with a lower vertical velocity.

Another thing about the Tempest - it has very effective flaps, so if you approach power off, it will allow for rather steep approaches even without a slip. It's easy to get slow in this situation, but not a big deal – just add some power gradually . . .it will soften the descent nicely.

As far as approach speeds, well the tempest has so much drag with the flaps down that you can come in high and steep at 210 kmh or 260 kmh and still slow it down for touchdown. I use 180-200 kmh but will have it slower than 130 as I'm about to touhdown. A better number to worry about is the speed at which you cross the runway threshold . . .you don't want that much over 190kmh. At that point, just start raising the nose gradually, and time it so you get the 3 point attitude just barely above the ground (remember the "sight picture" when on the ground from before takeoff - and try to match that).

mortoma
12-31-2008, 08:36 PM
I always trim up a lot on approach too. But you might already do that. I usually trim up so much that I actually have to put forward pressure on the stick until about touch down. I used to do that in RL when I flew my favorite rental Skyhawk II since Skyhawks and Skylanes are a bit nose heavy. It gave me a bit more up elevator authority at touchdown. After a while I got to where I'd stow stuff in the very back or the back seat to help bring the center of balance rearward. Or I'd have passengers ride in the back as long as my weight and balance sheet came out right.

The Tempest in the sim seems to have very stiff landing struts and also seems a bit nose heavy compared to other planes.

Can't stow stuff in the back in the sim but you can trim up a lot to help give you some more up authority to more easily flatten your descent rateon the flare.

Sillius_Sodus
01-02-2009, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
Hmmmm, I have never found any plane in this sim hard to land. But I have not flown the Tempest for a long time. There is one plane I think ( for me anyway ) that is the hardest to land and that's Pzl-11. It's not really all that hard but it's the hardest for me. Planes with a poor view like the Fiat G.50 can be tough but would be a cinch if you could actually see something.

I'll have to revisit the Tempest to see if I could come up with some tips.

Funny, I find the G50 the easiest plane in the sim to land. On the other hand I break a lot of props trying to land the Beaufighter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The G.50 is easy to land in sense, you just can't see anything after your tail is down. That's what makes it hard for me. I like to be able to see taxiways and such. I consider the whole experience, everything up to engine shut down to be a "landing". Not being able to see to get to a parking spot is a deal breaker for me. And external views is a no-no. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True enough mortoma, ground visibility in the G50 is terrible. It's never great in a taildragger and usually requires gentle S turns while taxiing. Of course in real life you can move your head from side to side as well as up and down...or get a ground crewman to ride on your wing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Aaron_GT
01-02-2009, 03:19 PM
From the pilot's notes

49. Check list for landing

(i) Turn on main tank, isolate wing tanks if nearly empty.
(ii) Reduce speed to 200 mph IAS and check brake pressure.
U - Undercarriage DOWN (check wing indicators and green lights and warning light)
P - Propellor control - Fully forward.
Supercharger - M ratio setting 1 in game
Flaps - Fully down
Radiator shutter - Down (Up if temp low)
(iii) A tendency to yaw and pitch is noticeable as the undercarriage comes down.
(iv) The flaps are large and the rate of descent with them lowered is consequently rapid.

50. Approach and landing

Approach speeds im mph IAS are as follows:

Engine assisted - 100, 120 (flaps up)
Glide - 120, 130 (flaps up)

NOTE - do not turn at speeds below 130-140 mph IAS.

51. Beam approach
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
-----------------Preliminary approach--Inner marker on QDR--Outer marker on QDM--Inner marker on QDM
Indicated height-1500------------------1000-----------------700 to 800-----------150
Action-----------Lower flap 20 deg-----Lower u/c, radiator--lower full flap------throttle back slowly
Res.Change trim--nose down-------------slight nose down-----slight nose down-----slight nose down
IAS mph----------170-------------------160-170--------------120------------------110-115
rpm--------------3150------------------3150-----------------3500-----------------3500
boost (lvl flt)-- -4 ------------------ -2 ----------------- -1/2 ------------------------
boost (500 ft/mn) -4 1/2 -------------- -3 ----------------- -3 ---------------------------
boost (overshoot) --------------------------------------------------------------- +6</pre>

Edit: made the table in instruction 51 line up

Aaron_GT
01-04-2009, 04:33 AM
Thanks Tully.

I have no idea what QDR and QDM are, btw - just typed it right out if the pilot's notes parrot-fashion.

With a bit of flying watching the dials I might be able to convert the boost figures into game throttle percentages if that is helpful.

Aaron_GT
01-04-2009, 04:39 AM
Hated it at first but It's not so bad once you figure it out.

At 0-20,000 ft it's very good - fast, good roll, well armed. But best as BnZ, not too much turning. It makes a good divebomber provided you keep the boost and rpm down in the dive to make up for the lack of dive brakes as it can dive fast, starting at ~8000 ft. With its good zoom you can get back up to altitude again.

Best climb rate is 185 mph IAS - fairly high.

Aaron_GT
01-04-2009, 04:51 AM
The Tempest in the sim seems to have very stiff landing struts and also seems a bit nose heavy compared to other planes.

The pilot's notes seem to suggest that flaps should make it nose heavy so (whether planned in the FM or not) it might be accurate, although whether it is correct in relation to others is another matter!

JimmyBlonde
01-05-2009, 04:17 AM
FUST

Flaps

Undercarriage

Speed

Trim.

Thus endeth the lesson for today.

Rock_Kettler
01-05-2009, 02:04 PM
QDR Magnetic bearing From - location.

QDM Magnetic bearing To - location.

Logical for a Beam Approach as kindly extracted from RL Pilots Notes by Aaron_GT.

Prefix Q code with INT (Military) or IMI (Civil) to ask the question.

One that we all should know, QNH for ground level barometric pressure. Essential for setting altimeter when setting up for any low level activity, particularly when landing.
Going off thread topic, I wonder if adjustable altimeter in SOW? I hope so.

Check ACP 131 (Allied Communication Publication) for Q and Z codes. Find it on Wiki.

Edited for typo.

CloCloZ
01-08-2009, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by RPMcMurphy:
I keep reviving this thread and beating it to death.
Heres me in a TempestV shot-up and landing on a grass airfield with no instruments:
(the no-instruments landing is at the end of the video.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...feature=channel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enUnZMKZjzQ&feature=channel_page)

Thanks RP for the interesting vids.
But as a tutorial it would be much better to have ntrk tracks, because on vids one can't really see on-screen speed and height data during landing, and those data are more than half of the troubles when landing the Tempest (and not only the Tempest, of course ...).