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BMboy88
07-14-2007, 02:02 AM
First of all, srry for my somethimes awkard english.
Hi all, i have played the e3 demo movie a few times again but in the public demo on e3 2007 altair first drops that guard down from the roof so he can sneak past the guards guarding the stairs, then he turns right and kills another guard. At this part of the demo, there's a bug and jade begins to laugh in front of the croud, you see, when altair kills the guard some "death-animation" starts and the guard falls backwards but instead of falling from the roof it lays in mid-air with only his ankle and foot still on the roof. You don't get to see it very well because the gamer rushes through the demo. Now i started wondering, if you use ragdoll effects, the body of the guard should fall down from the roof. If you look at the new trailer from ubidays you see an archer fall down from the roof because he loses his balance? i don't know if it is mentioned before but does this game use ragdoll effects or not?

Atheist2012
07-14-2007, 02:08 AM
I would assume it does. I would expect a game as realistic as this to have ragdoll physics.

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 02:30 AM
No, I think they are all canned animations. Nothing in this game would indicate the use of rag doll physics.

Atheist: a lot of the time, rag doll does just the opposite and serves to kill the realism of a game rather than enchance it.

Atheist2012
07-14-2007, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
Atheist: a lot of the time, rag doll does just the opposite and serves to kill the realism of a game rather than enchance it.
It's much more realistic than having some guy fall and float above the ground without contouring to the shape of the surface. If there is some cross between these, I don't know the name.

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 02:35 AM
a cross? KZ2 uses ragdoll with canned, it looks amazing.

And yeah, canned animations do look stupid when they screw up, which seems to happen a lot with this game

olendvcook
07-14-2007, 02:37 AM
alot? it was only one floating body

Atheist2012
07-14-2007, 02:42 AM
If it wasn't a lot it may be a sign of the what the rest of the game is like. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

But I guess I could see how ragdoll can screw things up--there had to be a cross, because some games, like SC, cause bodies to flex in ways that would otherwise just destroy the bones.

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 02:43 AM
I better not get in trouble for saying this, cause olendvcook asked for it.

The animations are still very choppy, they fail to proc, or proc at total random. Altair randomly slides of someone, then 30 seconds later flails his arms about like a *******. Or alternatively, Altair runs straight into someone, then slides off them, no animations in sight. Besides that, there are so few animations that they all look redundant after thirty seconds of gameplay.

olendvcook
07-14-2007, 02:48 AM
rag doll and animations are two different things

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 02:54 AM
I know, we were talking about one instance where a pre-canned ANIMATION went wrong, I said they went wrong a lot, you asked how, I responded.

Rag doll physics wouldn't really work in this game anyway, never seen an action adventure game with them. Be too wierd with the fights.

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 04:15 AM
http://uk.gamespot.com/video/930278/6174521/assassins-creed-stage-demo-1

you can see at around 4:20 altair falls in a ragdoll sort of way. lol! he falls like an idiot.

deskpe
07-14-2007, 04:42 AM
is the ragdoll thing like the one they uses in gears of war? lmao they look like jelly and u can kick them around haha

Mulle_DK13
07-14-2007, 04:47 AM
1. There are 4 month left.
2. The guard not falling on ground was a bug
3. There ARE ragdoll physics. Are you blind??

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 04:58 AM
Mulle, we know.

Scythe, nice vid.

Its looks like there may be ragdoll physics when you push people down in the chase. But if you look carefully, almost all the fallas are the exact same, one leg swings up while everything else drops. It looks stupid enough to be ragdoll, but repetetive enough to be canned. Ubi, don't tell us you've treated us to the worst of both worlds?

TheTrojanPig
07-14-2007, 04:59 AM
jade said they fixed that issue already someone has been saying that around the forum dont know if its true but every game has glitches cant be a game without em

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 05:03 AM
thanks lepo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BTW i doubt thats the final ragdoll version, cuz it sucks. i always hated bad ragdoll physics.but as long as the game doesnt have ragdoll like in spiderman 2, then im good with it. spiderman 2 physics SUCKED.

Mulle_DK13
07-14-2007, 05:35 AM
It's part animation, part ragdoll physics.

1. You kill someone.
2. They play an animation.
3. The game frees their ragdoll.

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 07:26 AM
Mulle, give links or I don't care.

To me it looks like the animation takes the people to the floor.

Besides, in that interview when Jade was asked about physics, she just kinda got startled and looked like a deer caught in headlights for about five minutes. Then she was like "Oh... well.... when you.... run.... you bump into people.... you fall..."

Which, obviously has nothing to do with physics, but instead animations and when/where they will proc. I think our favorite gamer girl is a little confused.

Anyone have a quote/link saying definetively if there are actual ragdoll physics during the chases or if its all precanned?

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 07:43 AM
i hope they implement the ragdoll physics from skate, cuz those are awesome. watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzIXSoPNa8&NR=1

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 07:49 AM
Those are decent, but I'm telling you, you wanna see good rag doll physics, check out KZ2.

Combination of precanned and rag doll. Which basically means f**king amazing.

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=125660&...ghlight=Official+GIF (http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=125660&page=2&highlight=Official+GIF)

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 07:54 AM
yeah lepo, they are good, but how do we know that sony isnt lying again and thats CGI??

i dunno, till now our best bet are the ones from skate cuz we know they're real. not saying that the killzone ones arent, but they do have a bad history.

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 07:56 AM
Its not cgi because people played the game right after the presentation.

Thats how we know.

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 08:07 AM
really???

i didnt hear any news about that??

i guess i gotta surf the web if you don't know a link. do you?

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 08:09 AM
http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/803/803129p1.html

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 08:16 AM
wow...

heres a movie where you can see the physics in action...wow...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVUM6nHCbsM

definitley this over skate...

cant believe i missed this...

Mulle_DK13
07-14-2007, 08:22 AM
Omg... Either your partly blind, or just plain stupid...

Take a look at the AC videos where Altair meets Talal. In the fight, with the guards, it's EASY to see the ragdoll physics...

Also, where Altair throws one of the guards into a scaffold, the guard is influensed by the law of physics... Open your eyes...

I'm amazed that there is any doubt that there's ragdoll physics in AC!

No offense!

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 08:30 AM
i never said there wasnt. i even posted a video a few poosts back showing that there were physics. but they werent good. maybe its cuz theres still some work to do, but the physics that are being implemented in killzone are amazing, you gotta admit, and im not even a big fan of the series.

Mulle_DK13
07-14-2007, 08:41 AM
The part of Killzone 2 I saw... I think the physics was bad!

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 08:42 AM
why??

Mulle_DK13
07-14-2007, 08:46 AM
It looked clumsy!

ScytheOfGrim
07-14-2007, 08:48 AM
when???

Tlepolemus7
07-14-2007, 09:21 AM
Mulle, if you think Killzone 2 has bad animations, it's your own opinion.

But its wrong.

Just because the scaffolding falls doesn't mean its rag doll physics. Being thrown into the scaffolding looked like a precanned animation. The scaffolding falling did look vaguely like it was affected by realtime physics, but that wouldn't be rag doll, it'd be something else. (Rag doll is used for characters, not wooden scaffolding)

I think you may be confused about... well, a lot of things.

gamepro11
07-16-2007, 04:53 PM
The bug was not because they didn't have rag doll physics but it was just a simple programming bug. I watched another E3 trailer and Jade Raymond said that that bug was already fixed. And they probably will have rag doll physics in the game.


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