PDA

View Full Version : Hawk 75 replacement?



x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 08:49 AM
I'm trying to decide what to use for the Phoney War map I'm going to be working on. France flew the Hawk 75. But it's only AI in the game. Would the Hawk 81 be an acceptable substitute, or do it's capabilites far exceed the 75's? I know the 75 is a radial, and the 81 is inline, but other than that, I don't know much about either.

Any other '39-'40 aircraft I can use for the French?

SkyChimp
08-13-2005, 09:06 AM
Try the F4F-3. The French were to get Martlets (ended up going to the British) and the F4F-3 has approximately the same performance. B-239 might be a good substitute, too.

F19_Olli72
08-13-2005, 09:10 AM
Hawker Hurricane MkI

The P-36 was better than the P-40 in some aspects:

"Thomas L. Hayes, who flew P-40Es with the 35th Pursuit Group, was originally supposed to go to Mindanao, but when his squadron was unable to reach the Philippines it was diverted to Java in mid-January 1942. "The water-cooled Allison...moved the center of gravity forward," Hayes recalled. "The P-40 was much heavier than the P-36, and visibility was somewhat restricted with that extended nose. The P-40 also had more difficult landing characteristics than the P-36--its greater weight, combined with the narrow landing gear and long nose, gave it a greater tendency to ground loop."

http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/blcurtissp40_3.htm

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 09:17 AM
I'm led to believe the Hurricane was used by the British anyway. So I had already included that.

I'd be more apt to lean towards the Brewester, over the Wildcat, just for plausible authenticity's sake.

Thanks for the help.

F19_Olli72
08-13-2005, 09:34 AM
BTW found this list of BOF planes. Theres just too few cr@pola planes in FB/AEP/FP for a good BoF campaign:
http://www.tarrif.net/wwii/guides/aircraft_of_bof.htm

csThor
08-13-2005, 09:37 AM
What about the I.A.R. 80a ? Might also be a good replacement for other french radial-engined fighters (Bloch MB152 ?).

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 09:53 AM
Interesting idea. hmmmmmm

Any thoughts on the IAR 80a?

Jaws2002
08-13-2005, 10:28 AM
Iar-80 is too Uber. It climbs(historically) as good as 109E up to 5000m. Hawk 75 could not match that. Just try it in QMB against some early stuff. You'll see what I mean.
It is a handful to trim, compresses like a pig, rolls like a b-24 (witch is all wrong), but is much better in climb then the Hawk75.

p1ngu666
08-13-2005, 10:54 AM
well the p36 that was recently restored is much nicer handling than the p40

LStarosta
08-13-2005, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
well the p36 that was recently restored is much nicer handling than the p40

Thank you for your historically accurate and completely useful account.

Capt_Haddock
08-13-2005, 11:11 AM
I'm with SkyChimp on this one.
France ordered no less than 91 fixed-wing Wildcats in late 1939, so it could have well been a major player in the Phoney War.

It'll be also much easier to paint as a mock-H75 than anything else (well, the Brewster could also look quite convincing, actually).

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/il2/forums/French_Hawk_01.jpg

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

csThor
08-13-2005, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Iar-80 is too Uber. It climbs(historically) as good as 109E up to 5000m. Hawk 75 could not match that. Just try it in QMB against some early stuff. You'll see what I mean.
It is a handful to trim, compresses like a pig, rolls like a b-24 (witch is all wrong), but is much better in climb then the Hawk75.

Well still it's about the only plane that is

a) slow enough

and

b) has about the matching armament

to represent a few of the older french fighter designs. BTW has anyone ever come across french skins for MS.406 and H.75 ? All I've found were some MS.406, but these were full-marking skins.

SeaNorris
08-13-2005, 11:19 AM
P-40B I'd say, that or the Buffalo/F4F

Spin characteristics P-40 vs P-36:

http://www.warbirdforum.com/p40spin.htm

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 11:42 AM
I think I'm going to go with the buffalo then

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 11:43 AM
What about the Morane-Saulnier MS.406C.1
Looks like a Yak 1 to me! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.tarrif.net/cgi/production/all_aircraft_adv.php?op=getplanes&planesX=85

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
BTW found this list of BOF planes. Theres just too few cr@pola planes in FB/AEP/FP for a good BoF campaign:
http://www.tarrif.net/wwii/guides/aircraft_of_bof.htm
Hey, thanks for that list! Too bad none are flyable! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Jaws2002
08-13-2005, 12:07 PM
Armament spot on, but the MS had no armor at all. How about a Mig?

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 12:27 PM
Mig 3 could work for the MS

SeaNorris
08-13-2005, 12:45 PM
And if you include the D.520:

http://www.todo-aviones.com.ar/francia/d520/CH-d520.jpg

LaGG-3:

http://combatavia.com1.ru/lagg_3.jpg

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 01:07 PM
So, what I have is this:

Phoney War (France) €˜40
ArdennesSummer (FMB map)
Allied
Hurricane MkI
Buffalo (In as the Hawk 75)
Mig-3 (In as the Morane-Saulnier 406C.1)
Lagg-3 (In as the Dewoitine 520)

Axis
Bf-109E4

We don't have any 109 C or 109 D

csThor
08-14-2005, 12:52 AM
Hmmm ... quite frankly the MiG-3 and the LaGG-3 don't fit here IMHO. The first is too fast for the plane it should "simulate", the second is far too "sturdy" (speaking of its DM) and has too much firepower. I would still prefer the I.A.R. 80a as replacement for the Bloch 152.

woofiedog
08-14-2005, 02:04 AM
I've been using the Me-110 for a replacement of the French Potez 630 fighter in my missions. And they were pretty close in performance.

http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/fww2/p630-i.jpg

http://users.belgacom.net/avion2/avion2/535.html

x__CRASH__x
08-14-2005, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
Hmmm ... quite frankly the MiG-3 and the LaGG-3 don't fit here IMHO. The first is too fast for the plane it should "simulate", the second is far too "sturdy" (speaking of its DM) and has too much firepower. I would still prefer the I.A.R. 80a as replacement for the Bloch 152.
hmmm. true. Darn uber Russians.

JG53Frankyboy
08-15-2005, 02:07 AM
to fake the Bloch 152 with the IAR80 is the best idea.
they hade the same engine, roughly the same performance, the same armament type (4 light MG).

that the Hawk 75 never was made flyable is realy a pitty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

HotelBushranger
08-15-2005, 03:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Yeah I'm real disappointed bout the no-flyale Hawk 775, its a beaut aircraft and is more versatile, in that there were so many nations that used it, both Allied and Axis. From what I heard, it was an extremely pilot friendly aircraft.

LEXX_Luthor
08-15-2005, 03:47 AM
Use Bf-110G for the unflyable 110C?

Chuck_Older
08-15-2005, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
I would still prefer the I.A.R. 80a as replacement for the Bloch 152.

But the IAR 80 isn't nearly as ugly as the Bloch!