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View Full Version : Friendly AI Stealing Kills ?



RS.Wedge
01-16-2006, 04:20 PM
I am fairly new to FB/AEP/PF and I have just finished the "When Tigers Could Fly" Campaign and I have started the "Wings Over Waves" campaign. When I am in a dog fight and I end up damaging the enemy AI enough where they are not a threat I usually pull back to conserve ammo for my next victim. What really makes me mad is that my wingman or another AI squad member will come up and pretty much "steal" my kill by finishing off a pretty much down and out enemy AI aircraft. Oh it makes me so mad -I work my butt off patiently waiting, stalking to set up the final blow to take the enemy fighter out of the picture and I dont even get credit for the kill!

I am to the point where I am more worried about getting the final blow to totally take out the enemy rather than moving on to the next bogie.

Does anyone else get frustrated as I do when it comes to these offline campaigns?

actionhank1786
01-16-2006, 04:25 PM
Oh i think everyone hates it.
But hey, i claim the kill all the same in my head.
The game may miscount but i've got it right.

Zeus-cat
01-16-2006, 04:31 PM
This is a known "problem". I just steal kills from the AI to make up for it.

The AI is programmed to kill an enemy even when it seems apparent that the plane is going down. Keep in mind, that on occasion, the enemy planes will recover from what you think is fatal damage. This is rare, but it does happen, so the friendly AI always tries to finish off the enemy.

Hoatee
01-16-2006, 04:50 PM
See,

Ai does show some human traits after all.

Yog_Shoggoth
01-16-2006, 05:11 PM
I don't mind that, I just hate it when they fire over my shoulder.

mortoma
01-16-2006, 06:12 PM
My way of finally dealing with that problem is to simply steal an occasional kill from my friendly AI pilots!!! I have become adept at diving down and the last moment to a wildly spinning/smoking/on fire plane a friendly has just sticken and put a burst in it just before it goes in. In this way I pretty much make up for the loss of kills they steal from me. When the AI cry out, " I got one!" they should be really saying' "I stole one!!" I also have been known to shoot down AI that do this to me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

rjrodney
01-16-2006, 07:52 PM
I ONE, I GOT ONE, GTH!!

F4U_Flyer
01-16-2006, 09:56 PM
now if the friendly ai would shoot us down for stealing there kills , That would be great!

actionhank1786
01-17-2006, 12:52 AM
haha, in the QMB i've been known to get angry enough to riddle my wingman with bullets, ever to continue shooting for the canopy when i see it fly off.

Bearcat99
01-17-2006, 05:51 AM
I just hate it when I get shot down by thw wingman of my kill because the AI was stealing the kill I just shot down....

Nigel_Woodman
01-17-2006, 10:13 AM
What is worse is having your A/I leader curse at you for not staying with him, when all the while you're shooting a bandit off of his a$$.

horseback
01-17-2006, 11:19 AM
The ingratitude of the ai is stunning, but the worst offenders are always the so-called 'Ace' ai.

They NEVER bleed E.

They ALWAYS can go faster than you can.

They NEVER overheat.

Their guns converge at WHATEVER range the target is at.

They ALWAYS KNOW when your finger is tightening on your trigger and either steal your kill or if he's an enemy ai, roll out of your crosshairs just as you fire.

They know where your canopy framing is, and can easily hide behind it, even in the wildest manuvering fights.

If you've gotten more than 5 kills in a mission, watch your wingmen very closely. They will try to collide with you, especially in the landing pattern.

The Number 3 pilot in your 4 plane flight is nearly always the biggest thief. Keep as far from him as possible, if you want to come back home with any credits.

I won't tolerate a 'friendly' Ace ai on my campaigns; I edit them all down to Veterans at the very most, and never make a Number 3 in my flight better than Average. This includes DGen campaigns; I just wait for the mission to be generated, and then go into FMB/Campaigns, select the latest mission, zero in on my home field, and demote the appropriate ai aircraft, then exit & save the mission.

It saves the time, trouble and ammunition I'd otherwise have to spend shooting them down during the mission.

cheers

horseback

zoinks_
01-17-2006, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Nigel_Woodman:
What is worse is having your A/I leader curse at you for not staying with him, when all the while you're shooting a bandit off of his a$$.

i agree. i wish there was a way to just make him shut his pie hole. i can live with the kill stealing and shooting over my shoulder(barely) but the incensive **** that comes out of my leader is horrible. its such an immersion killer.

hopefully bob will have a simple "form up" or "rejoin formation" or better yet, have the ai say nothing while engaged with the enemy than some lame inappropriate comment.

hear that Oleg? shut his beak!

JuHa-
01-17-2006, 01:16 PM
They ALWAYS KNOW when your finger is tightening on your trigger and either steal your kill or if he's an enemy ai, roll out of your crosshairs just as you fire.


My small modification to this one:Even Average AI knows when you have pulled the right amount of lead ... and starts
to roll immeaditly. Or when your nose is lined correctly for high deflection shot, they'll alter their path slightly.

But still, they will start to climb in a straight line after a while, and then you nail those... AIs.

F4U_Flyer
01-17-2006, 10:04 PM
" i wish there was a way to just make him shut his pie hole. i can live with the kill stealing and shooting over my shoulder(barely) but the incensive **** that comes out of my leader is horrible. its such an immersion killer."

Just go into the wave files and change them to " go get em ace" better than the krp coming from him now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ZK-DABLIN
01-18-2006, 03:01 AM
Sheez, listen to you people. I mean your complaining about AI kill steals in a campaign.

Are we not trying to reinact history here? I mean if we are, maybe we should realise that in reality, those poor souls only had one life to fight with, and team based approach to any kill is always a greater guarentee that all the pilots are going to get back home alive.

Yes sure these pilots were competitive at some level, and were rather honourable towards this, but in the heat of battle, the idea is to take out the enemy as efficiently and quickly as possible.

Who cares who started shooting, if someone has a perfect shot at the target, use it! It would surely only help to serve the entire team as their will now be one less target to worry about and every one can now contrate on the remainder.

Though I am not talking about shoulder shooting here. That is something I do dissagree with as the risk of hitting your team mate is very high. But in a situation when I am playing a campaign and I engage a target. If for some reason an AI friendly or my wing man makes it behind the enemy and starts to finish him off. So be it. I bet that enemys going to reget placing himself in such a bad situation.

I would then think, sweet hes history, come on boys lets get the others.

From a team perspective, this is a very effective form of dog-fighting. If you have never playing in a team based environment before (other then with AI) I can understand your grief, but what you must remember is that in reality - no one was flying all for their own, as that would have very quickly got you killed!

In reality, you had one life, and that and the lives of your team mates were more important then any level of kills.

RS.Wedge
01-18-2006, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by ZK-DABLIN:
Sheez, listen to you people. I mean your complaining about AI kill steals in a campaign.

Are we not trying to reinact history here? I mean if we are, maybe we should realise that in reality, those poor souls only had one life to fight with, and team based approach to any kill is always a greater guarentee that all the pilots are going to get back home alive.

Yes sure these pilots were competitive at some level, and were rather honourable towards this, but in the heat of battle, the idea is to take out the enemy as efficiently and quickly as possible.

Who cares who started shooting, if someone has a perfect shot at the target, use it! It would surely only help to serve the entire team as their will now be one less target to worry about and every one can now contrate on the remainder.

Though I am not talking about shoulder shooting here. That is something I do dissagree with as the risk of hitting your team mate is very high. But in a situation when I am playing a campaign and I engage a target. If for some reason an AI friendly or my wing man makes it behind the enemy and starts to finish him off. So be it. I bet that enemys going to reget placing himself in such a bad situation.

I would then think, sweet hes history, come on boys lets get the others.

From a team perspective, this is a very effective form of dog-fighting. If you have never playing in a team based environment before (other then with AI) I can understand your grief, but what you must remember is that in reality - no one was flying all for their own, as that would have very quickly got you killed!

In reality, you had one life, and that and the lives of your team mates were more important then any level of kills.

If I am playing an online mission I'm all about teamwork, but when I am playing in a single player mission I would like my squad mates to at least go after enemy fighters that I am not currently engaged in or have already taken out. When I am playing single player I want to achieve as many kills as possible with out doing anything stupid to get myself killed or even one of my squad mates. I do help out the friendly AI by taking on other enemy fighters that are not engaged with one of my own. This is a game and it frustrates me that the AI cannot recognize when an enemy fighter is out of the fight - that friendly AI taking on a down and out enemy fighter needs to be covering someone's butt or taking on another fully operational enemy fighter.

neural_dream
01-18-2006, 08:10 AM
Ok, that's funny. Complaining for AI kill stealing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.
What. You're afraid you won't get the promotion? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

Try DiD. You then don't care about such stuff. You have more important ones in mind, such as complete the objective and survive maybe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Kuna has finished about 20 full-length (~180 missions) campaigns and in some he has less than 20 kills in total http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. You think he doesn't have fun or he's a bad pilot? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


http://www.arcadeshopper.com/images/BG_PinbotFullTable_Colour.jpg

Hoatee
01-18-2006, 08:13 AM
Horseback got it right.

They ALWAYS KNOW when you are checking your six (and thus dive out of the way).

You can compensate, however, by squeezing the trigger even though you have no ammo left (they'll take evasive action almost as if they heard the click).

Nevermind - at least offline you won't get banned for friendly fire.

ZK-DABLIN
01-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Dont misinterpret me Wedge. I do understand where you are coming from. I will even admit the AI have this nasty habit of going after weak aircraft whilst ignoring more legitamate threats.

Unfortunately the AI is much similiar to wild-life, you do have some basic level of control and to maitain some form of order (ie, population control), but when they decide to do something there isn't really anything you can do about it.

The AI can not be reasoned with and shown the errors of their ways. Unfortunately with BOB on the way I doubt Oleg is going to make a complete AI rewrite to overcome the pecurilarities of these issues. Lets hope BOB has AI with better forms of tactical analysis.

Either way, don't get yourself too worked up about the AI. For whatever reason you play the campaign, try and enjoy it... and good luck!

Hopefully you don't get too screwed over by your AI wingmen, and if you do. Don't get too worked up about it. Friendly kills would really kindof make your hard fought attempt at legitimate kills rather pointless.

jds1978
01-18-2006, 06:22 PM
one of my hopes for BoB is shared or partial kills

han freak solo
01-18-2006, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by jds1978:
one of my hopes for BoB is shared or partial kills

Now that would be awesome! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RS.Wedge
01-18-2006, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by ZK-DABLIN:
Dont misinterpret me Wedge. I do understand where you are coming from. I will even admit the AI have this nasty habit of going after weak aircraft whilst ignoring more legitamate threats.

Unfortunately the AI is much similiar to wild-life, you do have some basic level of control and to maitain some form of order (ie, population control), but when they decide to do something there isn't really anything you can do about it.

The AI can not be reasoned with and shown the errors of their ways. Unfortunately with BOB on the way I doubt Oleg is going to make a complete AI rewrite to overcome the pecurilarities of these issues. Lets hope BOB has AI with better forms of tactical analysis.

Either way, don't get yourself too worked up about the AI. For whatever reason you play the campaign, try and enjoy it... and good luck!

Hopefully you don't get too screwed over by your AI wingmen, and if you do. Don't get too worked up about it. Friendly kills would really kindof make your hard fought attempt at legitimate kills rather pointless.

Im not getting too worked up. In fact Im over it and Im moving right along in this first campaign "Cat Ball" - just another 75 missions and then Im onto "Archer". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZK-DABLIN
01-21-2006, 11:00 PM
Ah sweet, Good effort!

djetz
01-22-2006, 05:59 AM
I'll tell you what's worse:

I was coming in to land after a successful mission, just about to touch down for a nice 3 pointer, when my AI wingman decided to land at the same time - right on top of me. Both planes exploded.

What's that about?

tagTaken2
01-22-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by horseback:

If you've gotten more than 5 kills in a mission, watch your wingmen very closely. They will try to collide with you, especially in the landing pattern.

The Number 3 pilot in your 4 plane flight is nearly always the biggest thief. Keep as far from him as possible, if you want to come back home with any credits.

horseback

This is *soooo* true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

However.

Recently I've been starting a campaign as lieutenant (high enough to command flight) and as the kills/medals/promotions pile up, I've discovered my nuturing side as a commander. Frequently, I will circle above a furball, watching over my people to make sure that they're not in trouble, and even occasionally pulling off a kill, so that they may take it.
This also becomes important in late war blue scenarios, where you need all the talent you can muster.

WWIIOL_toof
01-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by RS.Wedge:
I am fairly new to FB/AEP/PF and I have just finished the "When Tigers Could Fly" Campaign and I have started the "Wings Over Waves" campaign. When I am in a dog fight and I end up damaging the enemy AI enough where they are not a threat I usually pull back to conserve ammo for my next victim. What really makes me mad is that my wingman or another AI squad member will come up and pretty much "steal" my kill by finishing off a pretty much down and out enemy AI aircraft. Oh it makes me so mad -I work my butt off patiently waiting, stalking to set up the final blow to take the enemy fighter out of the picture and I dont even get credit for the kill!

I am to the point where I am more worried about getting the final blow to totally take out the enemy rather than moving on to the next bogie.

Does anyone else get frustrated as I do when it comes to these offline campaigns?


TOTALLY AGREE!

Omg I find myself talking to my AI buddies. I give them names. Like d&*(bag and winkerbean.

"OMG you d^&*(bag! You better get away from my kill! "

They never listen though and i grit my teeth as they take all the credit for it over the R/T.

grrrr.

dasist1
02-08-2006, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Hoatee:
See,

Ai does show some human traits after all.
lol!

Dengue.ZA
02-08-2006, 03:38 AM
I flew 80 odd missions in the Kuban faithfully protecting my CO on his way to 40 some kills and a cabinet full of Soviet gold.

...and then one day he stole my kill and I sent him flaming into the mountainside. Clear, concise message to the rest of the lads that what's mine is mine.

You have to ruthless or they'll never learn http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Kapteeni
02-08-2006, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
Ok, that's funny. Complaining for AI kill stealing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.
What. You're afraid you won't get the promotion? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

Try DiD. You then don't care about such stuff. You have more important ones in mind, such as complete the objective and survive maybe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Kuna has finished about 20 full-length (~180 missions) campaigns and in some he has less than 20 kills in total http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. You think he doesn't have fun or he's a bad pilot? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


http://www.arcadeshopper.com/images/BG_PinbotFullTable_Colour.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Worf101
02-08-2006, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Dengue.ZA:
I flew 80 odd missions in the Kuban faithfully protecting my CO on his way to 40 some kills and a cabinet full of Soviet gold.

...and then one day he stole my kill and I sent him flaming into the mountainside. Clear, concise message to the rest of the lads that what's mine is mine.

You have to ruthless or they'll never learn http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Man, dat's some good ole Soviet style justice right there boy. LOL, you sure you're not part Klingon? That was a goodie.

Worf101 99th Pursuit Squadron, 332nd V.F.G. "Spit Fire"

Bartolomeo_ita
02-08-2006, 08:47 AM
fire untill boom http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Akronnick
02-08-2006, 02:16 PM
Pumpkin: I think we have a vigilante in our midst, Honey Bunny.

Honey Bunny: Shoot 'im in the face

dasist1
02-08-2006, 07:07 PM
Well, in one occasion, I thought I had shot down only one, but later on I found that two kills were credited to me. In this case, I suspect that the other AIs let the aircraft battered by me crash without stealing my kill.

By all means, this game is so human! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HarlockGN
02-08-2006, 07:23 PM
Oleg must've sent the AI guys to learn at an IJN training camp :P
Saburo Sakai in his book "samurai!" complains repeatedly about his comarades' lack of teamwork, despite being good pilots they weren't used to fight as a team, so in some missions he had to dodge away from his kill to avoid being shot down by his fellow pilots shooting over his shoulder ^_^;;;

Browning50cal
02-09-2006, 12:13 AM
Look at the above response. I feel you man. You've got to get good enough to steal kills back!!

One thing that helps me is to recall my squadron mates if they are about to rob me. Tab, 6,8,2. Or a specific Chutai or Gruppe. Tab, *,8,2. One other thing is that AI are not hampered by overheating engines. This is why they always fly past you to shoot down your victim. 110% all day long. (start a mission on Autopilot and see how hot your engine gets).

Another thing you might want to try, (not if you fly Fw-190's) is to throw a few rounds into your AI squadron mate to let him know that you have things well under control.

I would like to see shared or partial kills in the future. There are so many things that are realistic about this sim, why not this too.

B50