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View Full Version : Jugheads, step forward please.



Pirschjaeger
05-24-2005, 07:23 AM
Hi,

Just wanted to hear your experiences with flying the P-47s and the differences between each model, if any.

I flew this once and was really impressed. When I get a new pc I plan to fly it often and get used to it. Tell me how YOU fly one of the most under-estimated planes in the IL-2 series.

I know Cajun flies one cause we dualed for about 30 mins online once. No victor, no loser.

BTW, Cajun is good at evasive manuevers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

mtnman4
05-24-2005, 11:49 AM
I prefer the P-47D-27. With the bubble canopy, the view is excellent.

I find the "Jug" to be at it's best at very high altitude. I am a big believer in BNZ. The 'Bolt outperforms most everything up high.
I call my style of flying, "Sharking" because I will circle above 20,000 ft and wait for my prey to come into view. Then I use it's best weapon... Diving, to swoop down on an enemy, unleash those 8 beautiful .50's right on top of him and then use the energy I have to extend & escape. Either to get away or return to altitude & do it again. I think 2 jug pilots using good wingman tactics are extrememly difficult to down. Besides, she's built like a brick #@$% house & looks like a centerfold.

PBNA-Boosher
05-24-2005, 12:25 PM
Get to High Alt, SPEED! Dive w/ throttle back on target, rake target heavily with .50 cal massive ROXORZ bullets, SPEED AWAY UP!

Cajun76
05-24-2005, 07:02 PM
Thanks for the kind words, definately one of my more memorable fights for that reason. We met at co-alt, very fast. I did my best to keep your mid-war 109 from getting the advantage by extending and zoom climbing, and by staying fast and attacking when you performed maneuvers that bled your speed.

The P-47D-10 is the most manueverable of the 3 I've found, but the paddle prop and added power of the -27 makes it my preferred choice. Better climb, acceleration, zoom climb, high speed shallow climb, loadout, visibility all contribute to the -27 being the best of the bunch, imho. 25% fuel will give over an hour of flight time, especially up high, and your WEP will run out before your fuel does, especially at high alt where it dosen't overheat readily at +100% power settings.

I prefer to engage with at least 500 km/h under my belt. Even after takeoff, I have a fairly even shot of either suprising someone, or bleeding some of their advantage and extending out. At 3000m I have enough space to feel good about engaging or being engaged by just about anyone, even if they have alt on me, as long as I have my speed up.

At high speed, she's got a natural nose up tendency. So you don't always have to pull the stick to go where you want. Change your vector by rolling, this bleeds less speed and changes your direction in multiple axis, making you harder to hit. Combined with the Forty-Seven's ledgendary ruggedness, you can often survive long enough for friendlies or use up your opponents ammo on empty air and Republic Steel if you find yourself in trouble. Sometimes it can't be avoided.

People new to the a/c will often complain that it's easy to stall, and it can be. But 25% fuel and some finesse wil go a long way toward helping to relieve that. I also recommend using a more relaxed curve profile, especially on pitch. Something like <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">1 3 5 8 17 26</pre>

I don't have my curve at the moment, I can post it later.

The basics are covered, though. Stay fast, then stay high. Situational awareness is critical for getting in and out safely. When diving down (preferred) try to engage the enemy with the most energy, even if someone is slighty higher than them.

bolillo_loco
05-24-2005, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Hi,

Just wanted to hear your experiences with flying the P-47s and the differences between each model, if any.

I flew this once and was really impressed. When I get a new pc I plan to fly it often and get used to it. Tell me how YOU fly one of the most under-estimated planes in the IL-2 series.

I know Cajun flies one cause we dualed for about 30 mins online once. No victor, no loser.

BTW, Cajun is good at evasive manuevers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

I saw cajun in a MUSTANG!! the other day and (56)Ghost in a SPITFIRE!!!!!!! I thought for a moment I was in the wrong game

Cajun76
05-24-2005, 07:42 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Shhhhhhhhhh!!

KGr.HH-Sunburst
05-24-2005, 07:43 PM
The Jug is also my main allied ride and i love the D27, a very stable plane and gun platform
most people underestimate it and think its sluggish, heavy and slow, but when she gets some alt and speed she comes to live and gets pretty agile, i almost never stall a P47 or get up in a tunrfight unlike i do when in a P51 and end up low and slow thats because the P47 takes decipline, patience and good tactics to fly it succesfully, IMO it keeps me on the edge where other planes make me more lazy.

unlike others i dont go "very" high, i use to stay at medium alts and mix it up with 190s, you be surprised how good a Jug turns above 450kph, i can turn with any 190, even the Dora and when meeting 109s just make high speed snap shots and when things get hot just dive down with 70-80% prop pitch and you outdive anything from 4k or higher and dont be afraid to go over speeds of 850kph IAS

The jug is a very rewarding plane, be easy with the controls keep the speed up and use those 8 .50cals fully so dont be afraid to spray a little more from further away to make some early hits to make it easier in finishing off 109s

ive got my MG's conv. set to 200m/inner 300m/ outer because my aim is good enough and i always take extra ammo with me.

now i wish some more people would fly it because when on servers like WC maybe 1, 2 sometimes
3 guys fly it on a full 40 player server
which is sad because the P47 is one of the best team planes and can rage havoc when properly flown together

Cajun76
05-25-2005, 08:42 AM
Sounds like Sunburst and I have similar styles. I'm not always hanging around 9000m either, and as long as one has the energy, one can get right in there with a Spit or Zero low on energy and turn with them for a short period. The trick is to recognize ahead of time that your going to lose your advantage, and bug out while they're still burning energy to get on your six.

My pitch curve at the moment. Bear in mind I'm using a TM Top Gun Afterburner, which has a shorter throw than an X-45, for example.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">3 9 16 23 32 43 55 69 83 100</pre>

I've had steeper curves in the past, shallower at the bottom and extreme at the top, but this lets my fly my Jug and others without having to change it. My roll also starts a little slow, mostly for the times I find myself in a FW. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

With a good head of steam, not many fighters can catch you, especially if you start a slight high speed climb near your top speed. You'll have to hold your stick forward to do these shallow climbs, unless you've put a lot of nose down trim, which I don't recommend. The only trim I put is to counter torque at high power, high speed settings, to keep my wings level, and nose centered. I don't touch my elevator trim as a general rule unless I've got a full load of bombs, then I trim as before and give 3 clicks nose up, and let her climb natuarally from there.

You can get a faster alt gain by making her climb, but if your lone wulfing, this leaves you with no energy to fight with if someone catches you. So I trim for level wings and centered nose and let her have her head. She'll settle into a nice, steady climb with decent forward speed so you have the energy to fight with if the enemy pounces.

I do my convergence slighty different, and perhaps I'm thinking too much, but I have the inner set @ 250m, and the outer @ 200m. This seems to give a "thicker" grouping before the two sets meet. If there's a lot of ground targets or heavy bombers, I might bump that out to 250 and 300.

Pirschjaeger
05-25-2005, 09:55 AM
Cajun, I never told you why I broke off from our dual. On my last attack you extended and climbed. That time you gained a lot of distance. Thinking that my fuel must be getting a little low I took a quick look at the gauge. I sad to myself, one more attack but it has got to be good. No sooner I throttled up I was out of fuel. The K4 isn't exactly fuel efficient. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I thought "Great, stuck way up here with Cajun and his 10 ton flying tank and I'm out of fuel". There's no running away from a Jug when I don't have fuel. Then came the funny part; you were still extending and almost out of sight. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I quickly turned away and headed for base. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I don't know how far you extended but I think you must have ended up in another server. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyways, it was a good tactical fight.

Thanks to all the advice you guys have given. One thing I've noticed is that a P-47 pilot is an P-47 expert. You guyz remind me of 190 pilots. Anyone who sticks with these planes gets to know them quite well.

I'm inspired to power-up the old pc and fly a jug. The old pc has a positive aspect; coffee break between frames. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fritz

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-25-2005, 10:56 AM
I fly the jug any opportunity I get and also prefer the D-27. The D-10 is awesome in historically accurate planesets, but the '27 is still my fav.

The biggest key (for me) has been to maintain good airspeed. The D-27 can maintain seperation from almost any prop-bird in the game as long as you have even a little alt. It doesn't accelerate as fast as some of the later Axis rides, but most will give up the chase long before they become a threat if you go into a 10 degree shallow dive and manage the trim correctly. She's quite fast in the right hands.


TB

Cajun76
05-25-2005, 03:24 PM
Well, isn't that something? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I started that fight overheated pretty good. I had finished a fight, and instead of finding some peaceful sky to get some alt, I flew towards the action. Being cocky. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Well, no sooner had I reached a comfortable alt and was about to throttle back, this 109 comes in with a lot of speed, slight dive, right for me. I fought as long as I could, but I had to extend and head home because my engine was going out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif You had plinked me several times as I recall, and I had a he!!uva time getting guns on you. You didn't seem to like being in the forwrad arc of my guns, but I think I got a couple of non-critical hits. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It seems like my engine quit before landing, I think, but I don't remember if I deadsticked succesfully or cracked up the landing. I do remember you got the credit for the kill, but I think it came down to who landed and reflew first. It was an excellent fight and a mere 100 pionts dosen't convey the satisfaction I get out of a well flown opponent, win or lose. Salute! sir and

Pirschjaeger
05-25-2005, 09:27 PM
Ha ha ha, Cajun, if you think about it, this was the only time we ever met on a server and also over a years ago. We both still remember it very well; proof it was a good fight.

You are right, you did get some non-critical hits, and cost me a paint job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But you were in a Jug which made all my hits on you non-critcal. I made it back to base but had taken a few more hits from a pesky La7 on the way down.

As you must have noticed I couldn't hit a hanger door if I were inside the hanger with a Mk108. Ha ha ha, your ears must have been ringing from my failed Mk108 attempts at point blank range. Four years of flying and I still can't hit anything.

I used to practice my shooting using P-47s offline. They are perfect since it you normally can practice a long time before they go down. But every now and again, the odd one goes down really easy. I haven't figured out exactly where the soft spot is but I know there is one. Any idea?

BTW, now that you mentioned it, I had landed, got a shiny new K4, and went looking for you again. As I was flying I saw that I did get credit for killing you. I thought it was a glich in the program. Now I understand what happened.

Fritz

Sgian_Dubh_001
05-25-2005, 09:45 PM
How does one set the convergence different for inner/outer guns? I don't recall seeing this in the configuration interface.

VW-IceFire
05-25-2005, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Sgian_Dubh_001:
How does one set the convergence different for inner/outer guns? I don't recall seeing this in the configuration interface.
Cannons / Machine guns

The Jug separates the batteries of machine guns so you have 4 and 4 machine guns. Which is why you need to press both triggers for all 8 guns to fire. It also means you can stagger the convergence on the two batteries of guns to a more deadly level.

Sgian_Dubh_001
05-25-2005, 10:02 PM
Ah. I didn't know that little trick.

Thanks.

Pirschjaeger
05-25-2005, 10:10 PM
It also means you can stagger the convergence on the two batteries of guns to a more deadly level.

Ouch, that would really hurt! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Fritz

Cajun76
05-26-2005, 04:47 AM
Like Sunburst said, take Extra ammo, it gives you about 30 seconds of ammo using both sets of guns.

Since some may be unfamilar with using wing mounted guns, this tip may help. When very close, don't center the enemy in your sights, lead to the left or right just a bit, to get one side on the fuselage, and one on a wing tip if you find yourself up close and personal. They'll still know they've been hit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WOLFMondo
05-26-2005, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
and your WEP will run out before your fuel does, especially at high alt where it dosen't overheat readily at +100% power settings.

Bah! It will! I've got my WEP to run out very frequently, so frequently I've begun to fly without it unless actually in combat. Yeah climbing is slow and painful and at high altitude you really have to watch your AoA to maintain some speed but it does give you a massive endurance advantage.

Shame I've can't fly it anymore. I've spent so much time in 190's that now when I fly a jug I fail horribly despite them being similar planes.



now i wish some more people would fly it because when on servers like WC maybe 1, 2 sometimes
3 guys fly it on a full 40 player server
which is sad because the P47 is one of the best team planes and can rage havoc when properly flown together

When Im on WC and on red I fly it, not too well right now but the intent is there anywayshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif..Definatly need to fly online more nowadays. Problem is allot of other people fly Spits and Mustangs which are hard planes to form up on due to the climb and performance differences. Also Spits and 51's are move comfortable at lower heights, I prefer to get to at least 5000 before going hunting and not many people it seems have the patience to wait that long before getting into combat so wingmen are hard to find.

If im on WC then give me a shout and I'll fly Jugs with you or anyone else. Im more than happy to dog fight or ground pound in one.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
05-26-2005, 05:58 AM
rgr Mondo, me and my sqaudmates are on WC TS alot and we do fly Jugs together pretty often

Diablo310th
05-26-2005, 06:01 AM
Pirsch...I'm a dedicated Jug flyer on every server it's available. I fly WC most of the time. If you just listen to what Sunburst, T-Bold , and Cajun have said here you'll jsut fine with it. All 3 are some of teh best Jug pilots around. To re-emphasize....keep your speed around 250+ mph, carry extra ammo, only 1 turn no more than 90 degrees and have a hard deck of around 2000 ft min. Fly her hard and fast and zoom away after making your gun pass. Don't try to stick around for a second shot by turning. Oh..and the best thing a jug pilot can do is to have a wingman. 2 Jugs working together are one tough cookie. Guys...look for me..I'm always looking for another Jug to team up with.

LilHorse
05-26-2005, 11:40 AM
I really like the Jug. Unfortunately it's rare when I get to fly it. I'll fly WC occasionally but I'm not an icons guy. Since my main ride is 109s I spend a lot of time in the Spits vs. 109s server. Maybe WC could experiment with a few nights sans icons? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I'm sure the regulars there would have no problems adjusting. It seems to be populated with some pretty good sticks.

Anyway, I gotta fly the P-47 more often. Great plane.

StellarRat
05-26-2005, 12:53 PM
"This is DieAbLow, I got me a 109" ...

- Nazgul