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View Full Version : Let me teach you about flying and gunnery.



Deedsundone
01-16-2007, 11:20 AM
Or,maybe you should teach me (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1116990935859350382&hl=en) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/J22.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
01-16-2007, 11:35 AM
2 small problems:

1. In the first half, the enemy is too far away. Wait until the wingtips of your targets touch the circle of your gunsight. That means, depending on gunsight and wingspan of the enemy, that he's about 150m in front of you.
2. Learn deflection shooting. When you push the trigger, the enemy is right at the center of your gunsight. That's great. The bad thing, however is, you constantly turn or move the aircraft to achieve that. If you fire the bullets, however, they fly in a rather straight line. So, when the bullets are right where you aimed a second ago, your crosshairs and the enemy are somewhere else.
Try to learn where to shoot so the flightpath of the plane and the bullets cross. Takes a lot of practice, but it's one of the most important things in a flightsim.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

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FoolTrottel
01-16-2007, 11:38 AM
Me thinks, this pilot should open fire a tad earlier...
let the target fly into the stream...

Meaning: What the Capt. said... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

flox
01-16-2007, 12:42 PM
Yeah, I think you did pretty well, you just tend to open fire a little late. You should "lead" your target a little more.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"Blacker than the blackest black times infinity"

WB_Outlaw
01-16-2007, 12:44 PM
If you can't get good smooth tracking on the target, then, as FT mentioned, you will need to open fire sooner for the snap shots. Don't wait until the target is passing through your sight to fire b/c by then it's already too late. If it takes the rounds 1/2 second to reach the target then you will have to fire 1/2 second before the target is in the sight.

Also, fire longer bursts. There were multiple instances where you wobbled around and through the target but only fired a 1/4 second burst. You would have scored more hits with longer bursts. Of course, this does waste more ammo but your final goal is to score hits, not conserve ammo.

I'm not sure about the Italian aircraft but it looked like the sight was off center. If it's like the German aircraft you should use the shift view to look directly through the gun sight.

--Outlaw.

Davinci..
01-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Couple of things.
First you might want to look at your stick settings, you seemed to have a bit of trouble controling your plane. You werent able to make fine adjustments to your flight path to pull your self onto target without over compensating.. Your stick settings could be a very big part of that. Every stick is different, and every pilot is as well. But controlling your plane is key to good gunnery.

For example, when you were under him, and you would pull up to attack, you would fly over him and try and hit him as you passed, instead of pulling up and sticking him in your crosshair. So even if you did hit you would only get a round or 2 on target before having to readjust again..
You seemed to be bouncing all over the place trying to keep him centerd. Post your stick settings(as well as deadband and filtering)so we can have a look as see if we cant find something a bit smoother for you. So that your plane goes where you want it to, and stays there, instead of bouncing around.

Also make sure you are using trim. If your plane isnt trimmed to(or around) your current speed, you'll constantly be fighting to keep your plane stable which you very much need to for gunnery as well.

Lastly, like Outlaw suggest, fire longer burst. All to often youll see pilots taking "feeling" shots, a simple "tap" of the trigger, to see if they are on target. And thats nice and all to conserv ammo, but if that "feeler" shot lands, there are no more to follow, and that "shot" will be a waste as you have to adjust yourself again.
Shoot like you mean it. Every shot you take, do it like you mean it. Give them a good 1 second burst, and have confidence in yourself and what you are doing.

badatit
01-16-2007, 01:42 PM
Yup...What everyone else said.

Pro's
Nice flying (cept for the part at the end).

Con's
In addition to the (late) shooting.
Situational Awareness
Target fixation
You should have been mauled by 5-6 of his teammates.Not once during the entire engagement did you check your six. This should be habitual, reguardless if your flying in an online dogfight server, an offline mission, or flying all alone (no enemy a/c) offline.
Even if your wingman tells you "Your clear!"...check your six (and check it often).

Staying alive is more important than getting kills.

Agamemnon22
01-16-2007, 01:53 PM
To add to what's mentioned above, towards the end you were throttling down to avoid overshooting. That's fine if its just you and him, but I generally try to avoid that (feel free to disagree with me here, aces..), in case someone jumps me while I'm tailing my target.

If you want to avoid overshooting, trade horizontal separation for vertical: climb at full power, let him get a bit ahead, then zoom down on him.

If you're following him in a turn, use either lag pursuit (sights on an imaginary point behind his aircraft) or a high yo-yo (without breaking your turn, rudder in the direction of the sky) so that you climb a bit and lose some speed, but build potential energy.

Just my 2 cents.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Joe2L
01-16-2007, 05:18 PM
Nice vid. If we ever meet in the virtual skies online and I see you at my six I now know exactly what to do;
Fly straight and level and wait for you to run out of ammo. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only kidding. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Good stuff.

Personally, I couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle.

Joe

super71957
01-16-2007, 05:57 PM
I hope you post your stick settings and brand of stick.
As Davinci said you are wobbling around and never seem to smoothly pull on target.
The reason I said the above is it looks like my flying!!! Very jerky and not smooth at all,but I have tried like hec to make smooth inputs,I will have to say now maybe it is stick configuration or the fact it is just a cheap joystick.(Microsoft Sidewinder).
Hopefully we can both learn from this thread and get on the path to much more accurate shooting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rammathorn_
01-16-2007, 06:12 PM
Fixing the wobbles and overshooting will fix your problem, but until then, you just need to lead a little better and anticipate when the enemy is going to slide through your sights. Towards the end of the video, you were right on his tail and consistently forcing him to pass right in front of you. Don't be afraid to through a few rounds into the air just before his plane crosses in front of you. By that point he obviously knew you were there and seemed damaged enough that he couldn't evade even a stream that he knew was coming.

BuzzU
01-16-2007, 06:23 PM
After all that bad shooting. You kill yourself too.

At least you're fair.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Buzz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Xiolablu3
01-16-2007, 06:31 PM
Your aim is good, but you are using a plane with terrible guns and shooting from a bit too far away.

Try using something with cannons such as the Spitfire IXc, Ki84B or the Me109F4/G2 if you are new to the game.

If you are a veteran, then try with the FW190,P38 , Tempest or P47.

I cannot shoot anything down with those guns on the Italian Macchis.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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TAW_Oilburner
01-16-2007, 06:47 PM
2 things

1- As has been said, stick settings. I know because I used to fly like that all the time (constantly fighting the plane).

2- Try and find a copy of AFJGoodKnights video's "Butchered" and "Six 50's". I learned more about deflection shooting and when to pull the trigger from those two videos than anything else. And, they are both quite entertaining.

StellarRat
01-16-2007, 11:52 PM
"Maverick, that's some of the worst shooting I've seen yet. Right up until the time you got killed."

You are firing from too far away and most important you are not leading the target. Along with that you have anticipate when the enemy will cross your sights and fire a longer burst BEFORE he crosses, so he flies through your bullets. You kept firing when he was in your sights but in the process of moving out of them, so by the time the rounds got to where he was it was too late.

Billy_DeLyon
01-17-2007, 12:32 AM
Oilburner, I'm curious how exactly you modified your stick settings? I have similar issues but can't decide if the settings are too sensitive, or not sensitive enough (currently using Tully's X45 settings).

rnzoli
01-17-2007, 02:06 AM
Lot of bulllets wasted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
A few more addition:

1. Your aim is disturbed by a little bit of 'wobble'. This isn't necessarily stick settings. It may be related to an untrimmed elevator, which may have been trimmed before engagement, but as you lost speed and lift, you needed to pull the stick more and more to get your nose up. In that range the sticks aren't so accurate and people incl. me overcontrol a lot, induce oscillations up and down, exactly as seen in your vid. The sticks are most precise and responsive aroudn their neutral position, so if you notice you need to pull the stick much for getting your aim right, try to trim your nose up instead, which will allow you to aim more precisely without the wobbling.

2. You try to take all shooting opportunities. Don't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Sometimes going for a shot, especially in scissors, will deny a better shooting position 5-10 seconds laters. Instead of trying to shoot the aircraft crossing ahead of you (very tempting, I know), you could have done a high yo-yo (pull up and change direction exactly when he turns then go down on him again). That means you will miss an opportunity for a snapshot, but you may gain an opportunity of a longer tracking shot.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

A "world's first": fully automatic, dedicated COOP server controller. Features and available servers here (http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/IL2DSC/intro-coop.html).
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TAW_Oilburner
01-17-2007, 06:47 AM
Here's what I have now. I'm not sure what goes to what, but I definately "softened" the settings. I also have a lot of filtering on the elevators and rudder. The new joystick code in IL2-46 is worth the money by itself, I can't get my joystick in 405 to feel that good.

Here are the 405 settings:


[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=0
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 7 10 15 22 31 42 55 70 88 100 0
1Y=0 4 7 10 19 28 41 54 71 87 100 0
1RZ=0 8 21 34 49 63 78 90 98 100 100 0
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

HotelBushranger
01-17-2007, 07:04 AM
Why do you have the LOMAC Lady telling you to pull up?!?!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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You can have no idea just how hostile aircraft can be until they come to your area...
Aircraft which strafe or bomb your positions should be regarded with suspicion, if not deep mistrust. Aircraft which bomb and strafe your position and wear a red circle should certainly be regarded with deep mistrust. In fact, the deeper the better. A six-foot-deep slit trench is an ideal place from which to mistrust them...
Australian soldier VX116124
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Deedsundone
01-17-2007, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the tips and advices.I will embrace them and change my stick setting(wich are default ones)to see if I will become an fighter ace.I am more of a bomber pilot than a fighter jockey,as we all have seen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/J22.jpg

Deedsundone
01-17-2007, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Why do you have the LOMAC Lady telling you to pull up?!?!

What LOMAC lady?DonĀ“t we all have that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/J22.jpg

JOHNRAMBO84
01-17-2007, 07:12 AM
Whoe! i thought i was bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Tully__
01-17-2007, 10:31 PM
I can only re-inforce what the others have said, especially:

- Look at your joystick sensitivity settings, especially roll but also pitch.
- Spend some time in Quick Mission Builder setting up and practising deflection shooting, you do need to shoot further in front of your target on the off angle shots.
- Get closer, especially when you're flying an aircraft that has the lighter MG armaments. Long range shots with non-explosive ammunition is often a waste of ammo even if you do hit your target.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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zbw_109
01-18-2007, 03:56 AM
Your better than me sadly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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TopGunBkk
01-18-2007, 12:36 PM
yeah true but if too far away it wouldnt even puncture human skin just bounce right off.
Under 100m is better u dont waste bulets try for the tail and engine get that engine on fire move on to the next one.

Beaware of your altitude if too low you cant pull up....stay focused on altitude....on bombers dont pull full speed...you'll be going to fast and fly right by them.I slow down to 70-75.

use comabt flaps and raised to raise your plane to a higher altitude when pursuing.

I love playing chicken head to head usally can get a few planes destroyed or at least on fire.

Bullets dont go in a straight line especially
if you in a air pocket and your bouncing around.