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View Full Version : OLEG!!!!::PLS MAKE A REAL DINAMIC CAMPAIGN!!! (nt)



pauluss1967
10-29-2004, 01:20 PM
nt

Chuck_Older
10-29-2004, 04:02 PM
Erm, uh...


what?

Destraex
10-29-2004, 04:41 PM
its dynamic enough for me mission wise

pauluss1967
10-30-2004, 06:02 AM
its dynamic enough?????

what there is of "dynamic"?
there is nothing of dynamic in that campaign
just simply missions

DuxCorvan
10-30-2004, 06:07 AM
I like this. Whines with no complexes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

pauluss1967
10-30-2004, 06:10 AM
for Chuck_Older ......
nt = no text

Chuck_Older
10-30-2004, 06:39 AM
Ah.


OK, this is the old story on this one.

"Dynamic Campaigns" is a problematic term. The problem being, of course, that to one person, the words "Dynamic Campaign" means something to one person, and something else to another.

In this case, many poeple made up their minds about what "Dynamic Campaigns" should mean, and then they play a campaign, and it doesn't live up to that.

In some cases, people think that the tanks they blew up in the last mission will be on the same spot on the map they were when they blew up, once historically the number of a certain type of aircraft is destroyed, that surpasses the number of aircraft actually built, that aircraft shouldn't appear anymore, and that the front line should move in direct relation to their actions.

That isn't the case, unfortunately.

In the Il*2 series, Dynamic Campaign typically means that the number of kills you make are recoreded, you advance in rank, you have the opportunity to fly different aircraft of your choosing at the start of each campaign segment, and your squadmates' stats are also recorded. When they get a kill, it's noted, and when they live for a while, they get better.

In PF, supposedly, there's a new wrinkle: you can affect the outcome of the war. That's what people say, I still don't have it.

But that's what is meant by "Dynamic Campaign"

IceShade-
10-30-2004, 07:46 AM
Indeed. The dynamic campaign in IL-2 is more or less:
'a series of scripted missions linked to each other - and when you load the same mission again, it's slightly different but still the same mission'

whereas in a 'real' dynamic campaign (Example: EEAH/EECH/Total Air War/CFS3) you pick a mission in the war, fly that mission and the outcome of that mission affects the overall outcome of the war in a small manner. Blowing up trains and supply convoys will cripple the enemies supplies in the long term.

When I read this 'dynamic campaign' system in the features list and then actually played it, I was deeply disappointed. In that perspective, CFS3 scores better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mashie_Nibblick
10-30-2004, 07:52 AM
Thank you, Paulusss, for your well-reasoned and mannerful request. If you'd performed a forum search, or asked around a little, you would have stumbled across this:

http://www.lowengrin.com/news.php

To my knowledge, there is no Pf-specific content yet, but it is coming, be sure.

IceShade-
10-30-2004, 07:59 AM
Ooh, very interesting. Thanks!

pauluss1967
10-30-2004, 05:07 PM
i would like a DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN like PACIFIC WAR of microprose....that type of campaign was more fun to play.
the graphic,flight model,the sound etc etc is wonderful...but the campaign ..........such!!!

just simple missions

artjunky
10-30-2004, 06:21 PM
I think that this thread sort of speaks to the problem within the programming. Only parts of the program are actually scripted.

For example, If the game were completely dynamic and done correctly, one would be able to have more options in quick mission builder. As it is now, you only have the simple set that they designed: only 4 different cities...

I do web design and what they have in quick mission builder feels like what I experience in web design. With simple html pages all the content resides inside that simple page rather than in a dynamic page that pulls all of the different variables from a database. Because they built it the way they did, they are stuck using flat content that doesn't translate very well to a really dynamic program.


My guess is that they took the easy way out and built this game's interface as simple as posible, but they probably now regret not doing the upfront work to make this sim really dynamic. Who knows, it may have been just impossible to program...

It's just too bad this end of the program was sidelined. It's an amazing game that I have loved and enjoyed for 2 years now. Perhaps they can deal with this problem when they submit BOB to world-wide examination.

rodion_zero
10-30-2004, 06:42 PM
There seems to be 3 kinds of campaign players:

a. Those who like to play the campaign in a more "passive" manner, to ensure that history "plays itself out" or "as it happened in real life" in the game.

b. Those who would like to take a very active part in the campaign so that major deviations from historical events would occur

c. Those who like a mixture of a and b.

IMHO, "stringed" campaigns (i.e. non-dynamic series of custom missions strung together to form a campaign would work well for "a" players, in that the "story" goes on no matter what the player does in the missions. Those who wince at the thought of changing history would look at stringed missions as a boon rather than bane.

"B" type players however need a truly dynamic campaign engine, and the war will never truly look the same because so many factors will affect the outcome of war. Meaning there is no guarantee that the war situation will eventually "look" the same as in what happened in real life if allowed to go on by itself. This is why true dynamic campaigns shine in contemporary war scenarios--there are no "historical records" to compare the outcome with.

"C" type players are really asking for something almost impossible to achieve. With so many factors to consider, one simply cannot expect a dynamic campaign to progress as it did in r/l, unless the programmers made sure that the dynamic engine is suspended while inserting some historical events--AOTP did marvelously with this method. However, I still say that true dynamic gameplay that follows real life events will only occur if ALL the stats of the aircraft, vehicles etc are unquestionable and perform flawlessly as they did in r/l and the AI is perfect too. I don't think "perfect" is that far as sims go...I mean, we even have perfect water now! LOL! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-RODION

Deathreaper666
10-31-2004, 01:48 AM
Directly from the readme.
Influencing the War in Dynamic Campaign

In Pacific Fighters dynamic campaigns the player's actions‚ influence the outcome of individual operations as well as the whole war. The system works by assigning a static number of points to each target destroyed, and calculating a total number of points for each side. If your side destroys enemy targets, points are added to your side's tally. If your side's targets are destroyed by the enemy, the points are subtracted from‚ your side's‚ tally.

The following point values are used:
Carrier = 100 points
Other ship = 20 points
Plane = 5 points
Tank = 3 points
All other targets = 1 point

The‚ tallies are recalculated after each mission,‚ and they're checked at the end of each operation. Each side is assigned a predetermined number of points which in each operation means a historical outcome (victory or defeat). If the operation's tally does not match the historical outcome, an alternative briefing is triggered which may mean a defeat for the side that historically won,‚ or vice versa.

The grand total tally of multiple campaigns can also lead to an alternate outcome of the whole war.

Default value for an operation outcome is 100 points (added if it's a victory, subtracted if it's a defeat). War outcome's value is 1,000 points.

You can change these values by adding and modifying the following lines‚ in the conf.ini file located in your root game folder:

OperationVictory=100
OperationDefeat=-100
WarVictory=1000
WarDefeat=-1000

These are default values. You can change the numbers to your liking. For example, if you want mission outcome to always be historical, you can‚ set the‚ parameters to unachievable high values, such as

OperationVictory=3000
OperationDefeat=-3000
WarVictory=30000
WarDefeat=-30000

By reducing the numbers you can make your contributions matter much more in the overall war effort.

I have no idea what more you guys want geez! You make something better then complain. Otherwise STFU and fly.

Luftkillier
10-31-2004, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deathreaper666:
Directly from the readme.READING HAS BECOME A CASUALTY OF THE MODERN INFORMATION DRIVEN WORLD

I have no idea what more you guys want geez! You make something better then complain. Otherwise STFU and fly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100%

Hrannar
10-31-2004, 11:18 AM
The only flight sim that has real dynamic campaign is Falcon 4. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

pauluss1967
10-31-2004, 12:30 PM
you are right Hrannar
it was what i would to say,but also pacific war of the microprose was a fun to play the various
campaigns
oleg and C. will be able to make this type of dinamic campaign?

Eraser_tr
10-31-2004, 12:51 PM
Il-2 campaigns are dynamic in the sense that the missions are generated by the game and not a set series of missions that will always be the same.

CFS3 takes alot of tweaking on campaigns. its **** near impossible to get the war to play out reasonably realistic. germany often winds up invading britain in a weeks worth of missions.

vlieg1982
10-31-2004, 01:55 PM
hello , am a player from Holland , and a want to post on this topic to give my complain about the Game, but a want to say that the Dynamic Campagne from FB/ PF is mostly verry boring and not verry satisfied at all .
take as example Germany ,Kursk as Bomber , it make no difference with bomber
you take H111 , Stuka ,Jabo, it all takes place from the same place and it all are the same mission of bombing bridge\ artillery \ konvoy\ airfield
mostly iff the mission ends you get shortly after it the same mission , with mostly the same (moving) targets on the same spot ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
the campagne generator have no influence on the plain you take ,
it only makes diffrence between an fighter and a Bomber
and a skip time option will also be welkom , want its boring to fly 10 min
over sea 8x time to reach a target ,
withs a find disappointed with te (new)time compression in PF ,
and perhaps an option to make iff you kill you take the name of an other pilot , and not to fly the same mission again ?
but further am happy with my product and a hope there will be new applications in the campagne system
but hopefully its makes in the future better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

greetings ,

Tachyon1000
10-31-2004, 02:26 PM
Dynamic campaign is a great idea, but what is the likelihood of a few sorties affecting the outcome of an entire war? Now, I could see if you were willing to fly a couple of sorties a day every day for a few months, then you might affect or at least influence the outcome of a certain battle or region, but the whole war? Not likely.