PDA

View Full Version : how come the hurricane cant outturn the spitfire



92SqnGCJimbo
04-20-2005, 12:33 PM
i always thought it was pretty well known that the hurri was the better turner out of the 2 (albeit less manauvrable).. and yet in il-2 it seems the other way around..

whats your vies on the subject

p.s i will get some proof up soon

p.s THIS IS FOR SOME OF THE PEOPLE WITH ATTITUDE PROBLEMS WHO HAVE ALREADY REPLIED TO THIS THREAD. I VERY RARELY HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE HURRI.. ITS OTHER PEOPLE I HAVE NOTICED THAT STRUGGLE!!!!. so dont come on here with your "learn how to fly" remarks,

thankyou

Daiichidoku
04-20-2005, 12:36 PM
yes, tho i have no documentation at me at this time....

i have read over and over for many many years about how the hurris could EASILY out turn spits, at any speed within the hurris range

SlickStick
04-20-2005, 12:46 PM
I generally have no problem out turning Spitfires in the Hurri IIc. The Hurri is quite awesome and stable at slow speed maneuvering and I feel it still maneuvers while the Spit is approaching stall speed in the game.

Granted, the Spits can always run away, but in a sustained tango, I usually always get inside of the Spit VIIIs or IXs. The Seafire and Vs are tougher to out turn, but still doable against all but the best Spit pilots.

The hardest part about the Hurri is the slow-a*s*s roll rate at speed, but at 180km/h to 200km/h, she rolls good enough. The 4 Hispanos make mince meat of Spits even with only a meager window of opportunity for a snap shot. I've honed the lead angle for those cannons to a fine art. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I can't wait to get a Spitfire Mk. Vc with four Hispanos. It'll be like having a faster hurri IIc. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Da_Godfatha
04-20-2005, 12:54 PM
The Hurricane can`t even out-turn a Whine-0-nine Emil. The Emil was faster, but not as manuverable as the Hurricane. But not in this game. Strange, eh?

Abbuzze
04-20-2005, 01:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
The Hurricane can`t even out-turn a Whine-0-nine Emil. The Emil was faster, but not as manuverable as the Hurricane. But not in this game. Strange, eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take a look at the powerload... for good sustaind turn you need a good one- Hurricane is heave but not stronger than the spit... maybe thats the solution.

SlickStick
04-20-2005, 01:30 PM
Emils are another of the planes I have no trouble out turning with a Hurri IIc. And as the Hurri IIb turns even better than the IIc, if it didn't have those 12 peashooters, I'd probably fly it more and not have to work as hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

One thing about my opinions though, they are always based on the game and I never think about the differences in real life because I feel that to be a moot point. There's no way to make the game exactly like real-life performance or to actually test real life planes against one another, so I base my opinions on what I see and experience in the game. Just FYI.

Now, speaking of Emils...ever notice that an Emil shadow appears under every 109 in the game? Hehe, while you're at it, check out the Spifire Mk. VIII's shadow. All CW Spit shadows show a non-clipped wing and the Mk. VIII shadow shows an open cockpit in the shadow, while all others show a closed one. Just a couple of tidbits I've seen that have no effect on gameplay. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
04-20-2005, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
The Hurricane can`t even out-turn a Whine-0-nine Emil. The Emil was faster, but not as manuverable as the Hurricane. But not in this game. Strange, eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh yes they can...UK-Dedicated flying the Battle of Britain scenario...not a single 109E that can sustain a turn fight with a Hurricane.

Trouble is that the smart ones never turn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Recon_609IAP
04-20-2005, 04:04 PM
turns great for me - what game are you playing? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jumoschwanz
04-20-2005, 06:01 PM
When I fly around in my 109, sometimes i can outurn Hurris and Spits, sometimes they fly circles around me, it all depends on the pilot, not the plane. So if you are having problems you do not know your plane well enough to take it to the edge.

When I fly a Spit or a Yak or any other plane that is supposed to be "uber" I cannot do $hit in them against anything, despite flying the sim for over three years, but some can work magic in them and make anyone look like a noob they go up against.

After so long in the 109 I think my ability in it is leveling out, I slowly learn a new trick here and there, but my ability is not on a steep ascent as it was in the first months of flying. So it is interesting to go up against different pilots in the same plane and see how easy it is to shoot some down, and how others turn the table on you and shoot you down.
After experiencing this time and again, it is really obvious how empty arguments for and against the plane as a factor is.

Now pick a favorite plane and go practice for a few hundred hours! S!

Jumowschwanz

92SqnGCJimbo
04-20-2005, 07:30 PM
jumo u got it wrong m8.. most of the time i can outturn spits etc... with the odd exception of when im feeling foolhardy..

but most of the time its when im flying against other people that are in the hurri that i notice it.

ive always been led to belive that the hurri was the easier plane to fly (more stable etc etc) so i always thought that it would be easier for less compotent pilots to get more rom it then say a spit.. but it seems to be reversed..

LeadSpitter_
04-21-2005, 02:07 AM
The hurricane sure takes alot of hits compaired to the spitfire tho http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Orheim
04-21-2005, 03:11 AM
Jumo buddy, time to change planes don't you think? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif F19_Olli72 and F19_Ob flew only 109'a before they joined up in our squadron and was excellent Me-pilots. Well they got bored flying the same over an over again and these days it seems like the IL2's are their favourite or any of the Cr@pPlanes and I am convinced that the game got a lot more FUN for them.

F19_Ob
04-21-2005, 03:27 AM
I like the hurris.

As I understand it the problem is not the hurricanes turning but its inability to sustain sharp turns and its poor accelleration to gain back the speed for best turn.
Its in this region ,the slow speed, the 109 can outmaneuver, outclimb or just outspeed and leave the hurricane behind in level flight.

The 109 is difficult in slow speed but the gentle stall, flaps and accelleration and exellent climb makes it infact easier to handle than the hurricane wich becomes fairly dangerous if not careful.
Highspeed dives is also a turnhamper for the hurricane since it cant slow down in the manner of the 109 although the 109 becomes bad also when speed is too high.

Whit this said it's still possible to turn inside the 109 in medium speed for enough time before the energy is gone and u cant turn anymore. This means that the 109's best trick is still BnZ in higspeeds and to allways climb above the hurri wich fast loses its speed if he follows. Spiral climbs in the 109 drains hurricanes that follow completely and are easy pray.
If a 109 is caught he has the option to slowspeed scissor, preferably with climb or just outaccellerate a hurricane by a shallow slow turning dive if it has mg's only.

If one have to dive away from multiple 109's in a hurricane it's best done with a spiraling dive with throttle idle so one doesn't overspeed.
I always do this when I have 2-4 bf109's on tail to keep the deflection difficult and still leave me in the best speedrange for harder evasives wich cant be done if overspeeding.
I only go down if I'm outnumbered and preferably into clouds below.
Have escaped many times with several 109's in pursuit.
This is the only way I have found to do this without presenting easy shots for the 109's.

other than that the hurri in the game seems to correspond well with what I have read about it in battle with the 109. So far.

Well, what I think.

carguy_
04-21-2005, 04:26 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

So if you can`t outturn a Spit then it`s official that the Hurric`n can`t outturn the Spit bleh.

You just need to enter a certain speed zone in order to have the tightest turn.In substained turn you won`t beat the Spit cuz it preserves energy way better than Hurric`n so your plane will fall behind and even if you get a firing solution the range will be too big to put a good shot.You need to make a strong quick turn in order to get a snapshot.low planes like Hurric`n have similar trouble with faster ones.

Though a field mod Hurri is quite good actually.

F19_Ob
04-21-2005, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

So if you can`t outturn a Spit then it`s official that the Hurric`n can`t outturn the Spit bleh.

You just need to enter a certain speed zone in order to have the tightest turn.In substained turn you won`t beat the Spit cuz it preserves energy way better than Hurric`n so your plane will fall behind and even if you get a firing solution the range will be too big to put a good shot.You need to make a strong quick turn in order to get a snapshot.low planes like Hurric`n have similar trouble with faster ones.

Though a field mod Hurri is quite good actually. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember an tv interview with a veteran who flew both spits and hurris and although he liked the spit he said the in a hurricane there was no worries to pull anything off the plane but in a spit u had to be careful not to pull off a wing in diving turns. I've also heard that spitpilots in general were reluctant to turn hard because of this.
He said he saw a spit scrapyard in france or germany during the war with hundreds of accidented spits but he had never heard of any hurricane who had lost parts from violent maneuvers with speed.

Our spits in the game dont seem to lose parts and they dont buffet violently close to stall.
Our 109's do buffet close to stall but they shouldnt.
According to spit and 109 pilots.
109's should hardly buffet in higspeed dives either, again according to finnish and german 109 pilots.

just a few things i just remembered.

---------------------------------

Ohh ....and hi there Orheim.

missiveus
04-21-2005, 07:41 AM
Tell 'em Jumo: Your post is the only sensible answer to the endless comparisons, both RL and in game, Il-2 generates. The same is true today as in WWII air combat: the pilot's skill is the single most important variable that determines the outcome of any air combat.

CAPT_COTTON
04-21-2005, 10:59 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

I fly spits nearly 99.99% of time and i have noticed that a hurricane on my tail is a good signal to me tooo run like hell or i will be losing my tail feathers and every time i am in hurricane i find that all the 109s run and call there buddies he he????. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

There is a bloke on line called[ B Bloke ]and he http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif the hurricane try to outturn him in Spit ! I have and failed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

SlickStick
04-21-2005, 11:11 AM
Hehe, BBloke is very good in the Hurri. He should be. He learned from one of the best, lol.

That was for you BBloke, my good friend.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nowadays, he's been tearing it up in the Mk. VIII CW on his server. Now, if only we can get his Kill/Death ratio to stay over 4 to 1. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da_Godfatha
04-21-2005, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
When I fly around in my 109, sometimes i can outurn Hurris and Spits, sometimes they fly circles around me, it all depends on the pilot, not the plane. So if you are having problems you do not know your plane well enough to take it to the edge.

When I fly a Spit or a Yak or any other plane that is supposed to be "uber" I cannot do $hit in them against anything, despite flying the sim for over three years, but some can work magic in them and make anyone look like a noob they go up against.

After so long in the 109 I think my ability in it is leveling out, I slowly learn a new trick here and there, but my ability is not on a steep ascent as it was in the first months of flying. So it is interesting to go up against different pilots in the same plane and see how easy it is to shoot some down, and how others turn the table on you and shoot you down.
After experiencing this time and again, it is really obvious how empty arguments for and against the plane as a factor is.

Now pick a favorite plane and go practice for a few hundred hours! S!

Jumowschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, maybe in RL it is the pilot and not the plane. But not in Oleg`s World!!! That is why so many good planes are not used onwhine any more.

Maybe after the next patch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif that statement MAY be correct.

Badsight.
04-21-2005, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
turns great for me - what game are you playing? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>exactly

i cant believe some of the posts above mine

Hurricanes & Spitfire were very close in turn ability . . . . . . over the course of 360 degrees ONLY

the Hurricane doesnt have the power loading to beat a sustained constant turn fight against a Spitfire IRL

as for the Emil comment , WTF !

Emils CAN NOT out-turn Hurricanes in FB equal fuel

before PF they were close true , but even then the Hurricane was STILL better than the Emil in 360 degree turns