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Raiden48
03-06-2004, 09:03 AM
After installing the addon i started testing this plane but i must say im disappointed about this plane. First of all its speed isnt all that good and its climb isnt too wonderfull either. Its turning capability suprised me positivly but at speeds under 350km/h it often goes into a weird spin when trying to make a sharp turn. But the worst part is its arnament. The engineers developing this plane must have been plain idiots, placing a Mk108 into a plane with such an aerodynamic form is plain stupid, because shooting the cannon makes the plane instable and reduces the chance to hit something.

Raiden48
03-06-2004, 09:03 AM
After installing the addon i started testing this plane but i must say im disappointed about this plane. First of all its speed isnt all that good and its climb isnt too wonderfull either. Its turning capability suprised me positivly but at speeds under 350km/h it often goes into a weird spin when trying to make a sharp turn. But the worst part is its arnament. The engineers developing this plane must have been plain idiots, placing a Mk108 into a plane with such an aerodynamic form is plain stupid, because shooting the cannon makes the plane instable and reduces the chance to hit something.

LEXX_Luthor
03-06-2004, 09:09 AM
Stop Whining

ZG77_Nagual
03-06-2004, 09:10 AM
I Strongly disagree - It is worth noting that the ta152 H is a specialized High altitude aircraft. But the fact is it has outstanding performance down low in the simm as well. It has some disadvantages low as well - which is good because as it is it's a very very hard plane to bet when flown well

PBNA-Flanker
03-06-2004, 09:15 AM
instead of whining about how it won't do what you want it to (like pull tight turns at low alt at slow speeds) why not learn the capabilities of the aircraft and use it as it's strengths dictate it should be used? :P

the ta-152 is much like the P-51.. she's a lady, treat her how she wants to be treated and she'll keep you alive..

treat her like a japanese zero and you're tuna food

VW-IceFire
03-06-2004, 09:15 AM
After reading the short essay that Zen did and what he had to say about the Ta-152H I think the Ta-152H is a matter of taste kind of aircraft. He said it should not be specifically compaired to the FW190D-9 and that its a totally different aircraft really with its own set of guidelines for fighting with. Sounds like a great challenge but not for the light of heart.

You may want to spend quite a bit more time and see if the plane works for you. Remember, not all planes are suited to all styles of combat and some people are better at one style than another style.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

PBNA-Flanker
03-06-2004, 09:20 AM
quite right and cheers to that... the TA-152, despite outward looks is NOT an FW-190.. nor should it be treated as such

FW190fan
03-06-2004, 09:28 AM
The Ta-152 IMO is modeled extremely well, and it is a very effective a/c.

The gun arrangement is regarded to be one of the best on any piston engine fighter.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Teufel_Eldritch
03-06-2004, 09:33 AM
I am not an aircraft expert nor am I expert driver but I have found that I stall less in the Ta-152 as opposed to it's predecessors(FW-190's).

YANKEE ROSE
-----------
"For a world of happiness & equality is but a fantasy driven by men who envy the ruling class."

LEXX_Luthor
03-06-2004, 09:34 AM
The crying about tight turns shows this one is not not taking Ta up High (as in "H"). This one probably never has--its the first thing I did with it and it beats everything else up there. But I must show Tolerance and Compassion here, given the repulsive appearance of the Pancake Earth landscape way up there.

They should use the Mk~108 against bombers. But I don't think the Germans did either cos by that time the P~51s were keeping them down low and slow. So the 30mm cannon were kinda wasted I guess.

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

03-06-2004, 10:08 AM
If I started out the offensive with a slight a bit of altitude(about 500m is enough) and speed advantage(about 50km/h?), I can stay behind an La-7 for more than 15 minutes until finally the disparity in E state diminishes and the La gains an advantage.

Yak-3s are a little tougher to stay behind, but it's possible. I've never measured the time, but I think I can manage to make the Yak dance for about 7~10 minutes.

The Ta152H can literally turn circles around a Fw190D-9 when it comes to fancy maneuvering. If not pressed into a defensive from the start, in the typical first merge->start maneuvering scenario, the Ta152 is capable of outmaneuvering a lot of planes in almost any plane.

By all means, even at low alts, this baby's good enough. Just don't let anything land behind you at 300m.

Zen--
03-06-2004, 10:11 AM
While I consider the D9 to be the best of the FW series because of it's outstanding E fighting capability, the Ta152 is not in that category and it's not going to perform as well as the D9 for pure E fighting.

The Ta152 is not a great energy fighter, but to under estimate this plane because of the Mk108 and a weird stall is to not give the plane it's full due. You're not going to win any IL2 racing trophies with it and you're not going to win any climbing contests either.

One cannot fly this plane like a spit or a Yak, it doesn't retain E well enough to compete purely in TnB. It's extremely good at BnZ because of it's excellent zoom climb and firepower, but as always with the 108 cannon shots must be fired from close range with as little AoA off tail as possible...the cannon just doesn't do well for high deflection shooting at anything but point blank range. (Side note, if the target is very close and passes directly under the gunsight, pull the trigger. Hit probability is good if you are familiar with blind shooting).

The stall is indeed a nasty one, it's killed me a number of times too but the trick with it is to find that fine line of performance. Few planes in this game will be able to sustain maximum turn rates, almost all of them cross a speed band where the plane will stall during a tight turn and the Ta is no exception. Anticipating the stall and reducing stick pressure when approaching that speed band (around 320kph) will usually allow you to cross the band with little risk of stalling. Like any FW, the Ta is not a yank and bank plane, care must be taken to ride the edge just like any of them.

The performance with the Ta152 is there but once again, you have to work to find it. This is where it is 100% like any other 190 and regular fliers of the series will be able to tune into finding it's envelope more quickly than pilots converting from other types, because this fine line in handling is a characteristic common of all the 190's.

In my mind, this plane dominates at low altitude but is inherently not as safe as the D9 because of it's lower E fighting performance. It can't outrun anything either so great care is required before entering the furball. In the D9 I feel confident that I can enter into any kind of fight, stay as long as I want and exit when I please (at least in 1.22, not so sure anymore in AEP) but with the Ta152 I don't feel that way at all. I feel that I need to find my target, get in, blast him and keep it short. Interestingly enough I think it takes even more constant calculating in the Ta152 to be successful...you must maintain an offensive posture because if you get defensive, you run out of options very quickly.


The plane is rather weak defensively...it's defense depends on you shooting down everyone in the furball and it's not well suited for 2 or 3 to 1 type of engagements at all. Basically you have to get them before they get you but with the Dora, you can maintain yourself as such a difficult target that at some point you can capitalize on the other guys mistake. Not so in the Ta152...you have to get him first or constantly keep him on the defensive.

Once again, Oleg has dropped a plane and an FM with the complexity to require serious attention to detail into the game. Not only is the Ta152 a simply awesome looking bird, it's as deep and interesting as the D9 and one that I really enjoy flying but one that has a different style. The contrast between the two is very nicely done and as Hunde or Robban said in another thread, it compliments the current 190's, it doesn't replace them.


On a humorous note, I think the guy most qualified to fly the Ta152 is a dedicated Hurricane pilot, at least for the low altitude TnB aspect.

-Zen-


(edit: sorry for the fragmented nature of this post, my 7 year old son has been sitting next to me with a non stop stream of Toon Town stories http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

TheGozr
03-06-2004, 10:38 AM
So zen what plane will you take to dogfight?

D9 1944
D9 1945
Ta152?

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg <--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

Zen--
03-06-2004, 10:40 AM
Depends really

Ta152
D9 1944
P38L


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Zen-

TheGozr
03-06-2004, 10:43 AM
what difference do yiou see between the 45 and 44 D9?

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg <--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

TheGozr
03-06-2004, 10:43 AM
ok i'm gone into medium clouds aces http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg <--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-06-2004, 10:53 AM
You wasnt trying to dogfight KIs were you? Because thats just silly, the ridiculous UBER Ki will make any plane look undermodeled. I happy with all planes performance except for that one. Oleg did right by US planes which was a very pleasant surprise. And the TA is a superb plane. Give it some time and Im sure you will change your opinion of it. I felt the same way about the P-47 until I took the time to learn it. Then she became a very deadly aircraft when I was at the stick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.aviation-history.com/vought/98027.jpg

Bamatt
03-06-2004, 12:29 PM
I did some flying with it yesterday. I climbs like a Jug and overheats like a P-40, but man when you get her up high its fast as hell. I was very suprised at how fast I could make a high speed 180 deg H turn. It turned around very fast.

Lots of juicy firepower too. Made quick work of my buddy in his YP-80.

I also took a 109Z up for a spin. That will be my plane of choice when I happen on a server with a bunch of B-17's

robban75
03-06-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
what difference do yiou see between the 45 and 44 D9?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can jump in here! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

D-9 '44.

Topspeed down low. 604km/h
At 5500m, 715-720km/h

D-9 '45.

Topspeed down low 613km/h
At 5500m, 702km/h

Climbrate, look here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

4th chart from the top!

http://members.chello.se/unni/chart.html

Contrary to RL, the D-9 '44 is a little bit faster to 5000m than the D-9 '45.

The D-9 '44 is(it seems) more agile. It feels less noseheavy.

IMHO, the '44 D-9 is the best one! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LightningJock
03-06-2004, 03:36 PM
The Ta-152 shouldn't even be included in this sim, same for the YP-80. Germany only produced 215 Ta152s, none of which saw combat. 200 were destroyed on the ground, the remaining never made it past flight testing. YP-80 did enter service, but only a handful were sent to Italy, where it's sole purpose was to show off. If we're to have a true WWII sim, then lets stick to the planes that fought during WWII, and leave out the prototypes.

Zen--
03-06-2004, 03:37 PM
D9 '44 is one hell of a plane, no doubt about it. My reason for the '44 instead of the '45 is that I don't like MW50 personally. Just a matter of preference.

-Zen-

robban75
03-06-2004, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Ta-152 shouldn't even be included in this sim, same for the YP-80. Germany only produced 215 Ta152s, none of which saw combat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The Ta 152 DID see combat, Check out JG 301! They did ALOT of fighting with this bird, at very low level aswell!

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Zen--
03-06-2004, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LightningJock:
The Ta-152 shouldn't even be included in this sim, same for the YP-80. Germany only produced 215 Ta152s, none of which saw combat. 200 were destroyed on the ground, the remaining never made it past flight testing. YP-80 did enter service, but only a handful were sent to Italy, where it's sole purpose was to show off. If we're to have a true WWII sim, then lets stick to the planes that fought during WWII, and leave out the prototypes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mind all these gee wiz planes in the game, many of them are kind of cool like the HE162 and the Go229...but I'm not going to be flying on servers with them enabled actually. As always, more choices is good for the sim imho, those of us who like more historical scenarios will fly on servers which have that mindset, for those of us who don't, there are still plenty of non historical servers out there.

I believe quite firmly that anything and everything should be added to the game...it's up to the host to set appropriate planesets to achieve the results they want and let people fly where they like the choices. I won't be on jet enabled servers in general, but that doesn't mean I don't think that someone shouldn't host a server like that...variety is a good thing even if I don't fly there myself.

The reality of the sim is that the sim can't control whether it's 'true' or not...only the host can.

To each his own http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-

Koohullin
03-06-2004, 05:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LightningJock:
The Ta-152 shouldn't even be included in this sim, same for the YP-80. Germany only produced 215 Ta152s, none of which saw combat. 200 were destroyed on the ground, the remaining never made it past flight testing. YP-80 did enter service, but only a handful were sent to Italy, where it's sole purpose was to show off. If we're to have a true WWII sim, then lets stick to the planes that fought during WWII, and leave out the prototypes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't mind all these gee wiz planes in the game, many of them are kind of cool like the HE162 and the Go229...but I'm not going to be flying on servers with them enabled actually. As always, more choices is good for the sim imho, those of us who like more historical scenarios will fly on servers which have that mindset, for those of us who don't, there are still plenty of non historical servers out there.

I believe quite firmly that anything and everything should be added to the game...it's up to the host to set appropriate planesets to achieve the results they want and let people fly where they like the choices. I won't be on jet enabled servers in general, but that doesn't mean I don't think that someone shouldn't host a server like that...variety is a good thing even if I don't fly there myself.

The reality of the sim is that the sim can't control whether it's 'true' or not...only the host can.

To each his own http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree whole heartedly.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


LightningJock, tell us how those 5 Yaks were shot down or what a/c was following the Tempest when it stalled in?

Obw, where did you find that 215 number and the 200 number on the ground? The last WNr for the Ta152H series is 150169 and there is a gap from 150040 to 150167 of known WNrs.

Hartmann.
03-06-2004, 06:18 PM
Now im oficialy disapointed with our actual FM on Ta 152, it can be outrun by the Spit 42!!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-06-2004, 07:02 PM
Hartmann:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Now im oficialy disapointed with our actual FM on Ta 152, it can be outrun by the Spit 42!!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We can tell you fly at sea level only. If you insist, you need a clipped wing Ta152C. At 8km altitude Ta152H is a 100km/hr IAS faster than Spit...but the "Sea Level Ta Whiners" are trying to keep that a Secret for themselves and their squadmates only http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Zen--
03-06-2004, 08:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hartmann.:
Now im oficialy disapointed with our actual FM on Ta 152, it can be outrun by the Spit 42!!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lack of speed just makes things more interesting. Pre engagement planning is very important with the Ta152 and for me at least, greatly adds to it's appeal.

She's a good ride imho...takes care in handling but can dish it out with certainty.

-Zen-

Gwalker70
03-06-2004, 10:01 PM
Zen,, the problem I see with the TA is acceleration

Zen--
03-06-2004, 10:48 PM
Sure, acceleration is definately on the low side. Hopefully Oleg will take another look at it, but the plane is not unflyable now I think.

From all accounts I've read the plane had great acceleration, but in AEP it's not so hot, though I doubt anything will change. Based on that, I'm just going to enjoy the fact that we have the plane in the first place and try not to worry about details http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-

LEXX_Luthor
03-07-2004, 12:51 AM
Not so fast. Skalgrim has a point:: check the power/weight ratio for Ta its worse than Dora but Ta still better than Dora way up high but maybe not down low. I think you fellas really want clipped wing Ta~152C. They clipped the wings of Zero and Spit for the same reasons. What altitude is your acceleration lacking?

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

robban75
03-07-2004, 03:45 AM
Ta 152H-1 empty weight is 3495kg. Adding crew, oil and load that rises to 4128kg. Max onboard fuel is 836kg. Total weight is 4964kg.

Fw 190D-9 empty weight is 3249. Adding crew, and oil that rises to 3803kg. Max onboard fuel is 467kg. Total weight is 4207kg.

Looking at this the D-9, should handily outaccelerate the Ta 152H-1. But, for topspeed this weight difference shouldn't matter all that much. Only the time taken to reach it.
The D-9 equipped with MW50 could reach 612km/h, the D-9 using Sonder/Notleistung could reach 621km/h. So perhaps a topspeed of 598km/h for the Ta 52H-1 isn't unrealistic. Sure it had a greater wingspan but they created very little drag. Wingloading was the same as for the Fw 190A-3.
From the reports I have read on the Ta 152 in-game, 560km/h seems much to slow for a bird with such a powerful engine. The chart showing 598km/h is a real chart made in January -45. It also features the D-9, D12 and D-15. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LEXX_Luthor
03-07-2004, 04:42 AM
robban:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Sure it had a greater wingspan but they created very little drag. Wingloading was the same as for the Fw 190A-3.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ouch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif robban you miss the importance of greater wingspan (think high speed delta wing jets with low wing area). Wingspan and wing area are not the same, and you know that. Think about the long span and how they are always associated with lower airpseeds (that's about as far as my aerodynamic knowledge goes). Now, at high altitude, the Ta airspeed does not drop much from sea level as much as other aircraft (I will reapeat this if needed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), thus Ta outruns and (ed-possibly) out accelerates (?) all others except Fb109Z (but Ta handles far better for dogfighting up there). Put the numbers away for a moment, sit back, and think a little. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Have you tried Ta at high altitude? I dare to think you have not cos you have never said anything about it...to my knowledge.


__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

uberweng
03-07-2004, 04:58 AM
About the not seeing combat thing, a pair of TA 152s shot down an RAF aircraft piloted by a kiwi. A museum over here made a little display about the event. I cant remember the type of plane the kiwi was flying.

Uberweng

robban75
03-07-2004, 05:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Ouch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif robban you miss the importance of greater wingspan (think high speed delta wing jets with low wing area). Wingspan and wing area are not the same, and you know that. Think about the long span and how they are always associated with lower airpseeds (that's about as far as my aerodynamic knowledge goes). Now, at high altitude, the Ta airspeed does not drop much from sea level as much as other aircraft (I will reapeat this if needed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), thus Ta outruns and _(ed-possibly)_ out accelerates (?) all others except Fb109Z (but Ta handles far better for dogfighting up there). Put the numbers away for a moment, sit back, and think a little. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Have you tried Ta at high altitude? I dare to think you have not cos you have never said anything about it...to my knowledge.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, looking at my global position, my copy of AEP should hopefully arrive within two weeks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm not saying that the Ta 152H shouldn't be slower at low altitude, of course it should be. And being about 20km/h slower than the D-9 seems realistic to me. But, that would mean that it would still have a topspeed of 598km/h, which the graph illustrates. I don't know if you have this book.

http://books.stonebooks.com/reading/hermann_fw190.jpg

I can highly recommend it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
It features the graph i'm talking about.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LEXX_Luthor
03-07-2004, 05:48 AM
*ouch* I forgot you may not have AEP yet. Now I am killing myself over this. I just went to finish up P11c speed testing, and I was up at 10km and trimming to maintain altitude and I started thinking about Ta (I couldn't help it way up there)...and I started thinking that you may NOT have a copy of AEP. Sorry about that. If I were you I would wait to do your own testing. Bear in mind the people Whining here at ubi.com have never taken the Ta up to high altitude, which is a most bizarre behavior for those who advertise themselves as FW Fans, and exposes them as...."lazy" for lack of a better word.

btw, 10km seems awful high for P11 and it still handled well. hmmmm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Of course I started up there in FMB, but when autopilot took it down (could not handle 10km) I could not get back up there myself. So maybe there is some logic here. You can fly P11 at 10km but only if you spawn at 10km--not a justifiable reason for me to complain here.

No, I don't have that book. I trust Oleg more than any "book." However, that said, I have not seen Oleg comment on the sea level Ta Whining, or if he did I missed it, and when Oleg does not comment, then possibly Oleg has made a mistake somewhere over the FB and he knows it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif Also, I do recall Oleg posting several months ago that Ta at low level will match La~7. I swear I read he said that.

However, when we quote "official" book numbers and then we equate wing area with wingspan, I just assume we memorize alot of numbers or factory fresh test graphs and nothing else. Sorry. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ta Climb? hmmmm. I too would "naturally" think that long wing would help climb, even at low altitude possibly. But I cannot make that statement with any justification. I will do Ta testing but am starting out with the early stuff and will work my way through. Started out tonight with TB~3. I have waited for the AEP in case stuff changes. Most likely there will be more changes. The most bizzare problem I am having is that nobody is interested in Ta at high altitude, yet that is what they wanted. Now, it seems they only want Ta152C. And I saw one Noob post he would rather have that than the real production Ta152H.

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-07-2004, 06:07 AM
....oh, and I must agree partially with that poster, I too would like to see Ta152C (along with the "H"). But I am particularly fond of fighters made for extreme high altitude combat. Just something exotic about them all.

If the Noobs wanna dogfight onwhine at sea level, then they are wasting money on the AEP cos all the Russian fighters they wanna dogfight against are in the FB already. Or they can go Biplane but fat chance them giving up their Wonder Weapon prop planes. Although, you know, they say once you go Biplane, you never go back. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

robban75
03-07-2004, 06:25 AM
Heh, no problem LEXX, two weeks will pass swiftly! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I've had many high alt dogfights online against P-51's. The highest alt I believe was around 9000m. I was in a D-9, and neither of us could get any good angles.
Funny as it seems, P-47's are mostly encountered at treetop height for some reason. Up there they would bring havoc on my D-9.

It remains to be seen how many P-47 and P-51 jocks there are that are willing to battle the Ta 152 in its prefered environment.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

LEXX_Luthor
03-07-2004, 06:52 AM
*bah* the longest two weeks of your life.

Those pilots you mention, they could use P~51H, P~38K, and my favorite MiG~I224 prototype. Or maybe P~47N or M I dunno (whatever). From what I saw, up high you can turn Ta tight without much fear of losing control and still have energy to climb. Fb109Z has similar speed but can't turn tight up there.

Most of all, I'd like a 109 Bertha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

robban75
03-07-2004, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
*bah* the longest two weeks of your life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you are most certainly right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Magister__Ludi
03-07-2004, 07:25 AM
Ta-152 turns well, but it's too slow at low alts: at sea level it reaches 560kmh instead of 580kmh. Didn't check the climb yet.

Ta154_Moskito
03-07-2004, 10:26 AM
In my opinion, the Ta-152 is one of the best planes in the game, and if flown properly, is nearly unstoppable. Sure it's a bit ungainly at low altitudes, but what plane isn't with such huge wings? I was amazed the first time I flew this one. At first, I was slightly disappointed, but then I flew higher and higher, and all I could say was wow....Took it up to nearly 13,000 meters in combat, then dove down to 9000 at nearly 1000km/h. My friend in his '51 never knew what hit him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG4_Rivercube
03-08-2004, 04:12 PM
Hi,

i have flown the Ta now several times..but
i have a big problem...i cant reach &gt; 350 km/h
with it...even at 6000 m a spit was as fast as i was. I dont know how to get it fast. I tried
manuell pitch and so on..but i think every 109 and FW 190 is faster than the Ta.
If you have some tips how i can reach the high
speeds please let me know...

Regards

Rivercube

ElfunkoI
03-08-2004, 04:52 PM
When they say 700 kph @ 11km or whatever they mean in TAS. They aren't talking about the speed at which your aircraft will perform, or IAS (Indicated Air Speed, the speed the air is moving over the wings). As for the Spit being equal, odd. I can't give any advice though, I haven't done anything but low alt engagements also (for this it is good).

"A6?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Will be A6!"