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Jieitai_Tsunami
09-09-2004, 03:23 AM
I know it's a stupid question but does any one have any photos of how Zero pilots fired there guns in combat?
It has no trigger except maybe for the cannon which is on the throttle lever. Did the pilot have to let go of his controls and grab both guns to fire? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

http://eletec.hp.infoseek.co.jp/siryoukan/cockpit_Zero.jpg

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

Jieitai_Tsunami
09-09-2004, 03:23 AM
I know it's a stupid question but does any one have any photos of how Zero pilots fired there guns in combat?
It has no trigger except maybe for the cannon which is on the throttle lever. Did the pilot have to let go of his controls and grab both guns to fire? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

http://eletec.hp.infoseek.co.jp/siryoukan/cockpit_Zero.jpg

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

Giganoni
09-09-2004, 09:49 AM
Very good question, I've been looking at the cockpits of many Japanese fighters and its hard to tell what exactly fired the mgs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Well, at least for me it is. I know the Ki-27 had a little lever type thing on the left side of the cockpit that triggered its guns. I do not know if the Zero had something like that.

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v225/giganoni/IL2/giganoni2.jpg

Daiichidoku
09-09-2004, 10:38 AM
Interesting point, which reminded about something...

In PF, I think Zero pilots should be able to clear gun jams in the 7.7mms

I don't know for sure, but wasn't this the case IRL?

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 11:33 AM
All I know is that the cowl guns were charged manually in the Zero

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Ruy Horta
09-09-2004, 12:09 PM
At least in Model 52 it was all concentrated in the throttle. Thumb button functioning as a selector, a grip type of trigger to shoot the guns.

Not sure if they could fire both at the same time. Judging by Jap. A/C Interiors it was thumb switch forward to select cowl LMGs and backward to select the wing cannon. HOWEVER perhaps the middle setting would fire all guns?

Food for thought.

Unfortunately I can't read the Japanese material I have on the subject.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

Reschke
09-09-2004, 01:54 PM
They had a switch that was activated by sexual arousal which when they focused on those thoughts death became an interesting option and they were forced to engage enemy aircraft instead of running away screaming at the top of their lungs.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

OK How the heck should I know it is an interesting question.

Lcdr. Reschke
CO VF-17 " The Jolly Rogers"
The Jolly Rogers (http://www.vf-17.org)

Ankanor
09-09-2004, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reschke:
They had a switch that was activated by sexual arousal which when they focused on those thoughts death became an interesting option and they were forced to engage enemy aircraft instead of running away screaming at the top of their lungs.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

OK How the heck should I know it is an interesting question.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you take your medicine? LOL

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

Jieitai_Tsunami
09-09-2004, 02:56 PM
I guess it was magic or mind control then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Only joking, I think the throttle quadrant would be the best bet, though I'm sure the guns could be controlled using some thing on the rear of the gun it's self.

How did it work in WW1?

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 03:39 PM
IN WWI, it mattered on the plane.

Many German a/c used a lever attached to the guns (See the Blue Max starring George Peppard)

Some French a/c actually had a stick trigger hooked up to wires that got pulled taut when the trigger was depressed.

I have a book of cockpits from vintage a/c. i wonder if the Zero is in it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

F16_Fatboy
09-09-2004, 03:53 PM
About halfway down this page http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185520-1.html
there is a picture of the throttle and some guessing about the switch on the lever. Can that be it?

FLSTF

http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v125/F16_fatboy/Album1/sig_fatboy.jpg

Ruy Horta
09-09-2004, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Many German a/c used a lever attached to the guns (See the Blue Max starring George Peppard)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The standard Fokker weapon's system used a spade like handle joystick grip with thumb triggers. The Blue Max movie is BS.

The "handle" is actually part of the Kingstrom device to (try and) recock the MG while in the air.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Ruy Horta

Chuck_Older
09-09-2004, 04:26 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

DuxCorvan
09-09-2004, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reschke:
They had a switch that was activated by sexual arousal which when they focused on those thoughts death became an interesting option and they were forced to engage enemy aircraft instead of running away screaming at the top of their lungs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whiners don't use drugs... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

In fact, when they wanted to fire, they used the correspondent triggers. A posibility all you have ignored, emmmm?

Jieitai_Tsunami
09-09-2004, 05:41 PM
ah in a book I just bought it says

http://www.avweb.com/newspics/185502_zero_throttle_prop_mixture.jpg

The throttle is made of wood and there is a selector switch for the 20mm and 7.7mm guns. That must be the small switch on the end of the throttle.

So I don't think both guns were able to be fired at once.

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

Snootles
09-09-2004, 06:47 PM
Unless it was more than a two-way switch and had a third setting to arm all.

******************************
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/theskatingribbit/Kudoarticleedited4ver2.jpg

This mysterious article appeared about a week ago in the Washington Post. When questioned about it, the EiC declined to respond. One truth prevails.

SkyChimp
09-10-2004, 10:29 PM
What is labelled the Radio PTT switch in the above picture actually appears to be the trigger. Got this from the J-Aircraft site:

The selector switch was on the end of the throttle, and as part of the throttle, there was what looks much like a backward bicycle brake handle - that was what was the trigger. Select MGs for close-in dogfighting or cannon for further away using your thumb, fire with your fingers - all from the throttle hand.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/SkyChimp_flying.jpg

MK2aw
09-10-2004, 11:13 PM
Yes the radio PTT switch is actually the trigger in this picture.

No3 Spit
09-10-2004, 11:59 PM
The in game version shows you look at throttle and press trigger..

Jieitai_Tsunami
09-11-2004, 07:17 AM
I thought so, why would they have a great big lever for the radio and a little swich for the trigger http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

horseback
09-11-2004, 10:41 AM
Skychimp's post jibes with Saburo Sakai's description in 'Samurai!', altho Sakai states that he used the MGs to range the target for his cannon. Once he saw he was getting hits with the MGs, he'd fire the big guns to finish his opponent off. Cannon ammo was more limited than MGs', and had to be conserved.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Jieitai_Tsunami
09-12-2004, 07:37 AM
I think at the moment people don't care if they are firing the cannon or MG. Just get a wide despersion so you can't miss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. It would be good to have a key for switching the cannon and guns, if that was how it was, to make it more realisic.

Thanks for the info!

stansdds
09-12-2004, 09:28 AM
Machine gun ammo also has a much flatter trajectory than cannon ammo as well as a higher rate of fire. I think it was a universal procedure to fire at longer distances with machine guns and use the cannons when the range was close.

Daiichidoku
09-12-2004, 12:53 PM
Perhaps the idea of using MGs for close-in was that the destructive power of cannon wasn't needed, the Zero pilot could be surgical with the MGs and take out specific parts of the enemy, the engine, the control surfaces, or perhaps more often, the pilot....

Certainly, that's what I'm going to have to do in my Oscar...

KIMURA
09-12-2004, 01:57 PM
pink=throttle/trigger
green=cannon/MG selector switch
Blue=gun safety lever

source: Aero Detail A6M.

Here a Model 52.
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/a-z/kimura-hei/A6M5.jpg

Kimura

Jieitai_Tsunami
09-12-2004, 03:56 PM
Thanks Kimura, but that plane does not have a lever on the throttle. Maybe because this was a newer model.

I hope they put a bit more detail in PF, though I don't see it. It would be great to prime the guns and select cannon or guns http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.


In CFS2 I used to do a lot of that Daiichi. You could down any aircraft by getting in close and shooting different parts of the plane in the Hayabusa.

You have to be extremely careful with you ammo in Japanese AC.

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

KIMURA
09-13-2004, 03:24 AM
Hi Tsunami

I guess the throttle has a trigger placed at the face side of the throttle but deepened, maybe of secutrity reasons. It seems that the face side of the throttle now shows a better fit for the pilot's thumb which has the push the trigger.

The older throttle (A6M2) as made of wood and the trigger was attached on the face side (as shown above in another post). The danger of mishandling the trigger in stressy combat situtation seems bigger with the A6M2 throttle/trigger than with the economic shaped A6M5 throttle/trigger.

I'll search for a better pic of the A6M5 throttle to prove my theory. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kimura

KIMURA
09-13-2004, 09:23 AM
Jieitai_Tsunami here we go again.

Just found a pic taken from a slightly different angle, reference here is the Model 52 cockpit. As you can see the FB throttle is not from best modelling quality. The trigger here on the later 52 model is remarkable deepened compared to the face side trigger of the A6M2. (I think the deeper positioning of the trigger has only security reasons to avoid mishandling.)

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/a-z/kimura-hei/a6m5_2.jpg

Kimura