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View Full Version : HAPPY VJ DAY!!!



WilhelmSchulz.
08-15-2006, 04:37 PM
Today is the anaversy of the Japanies surender. VJ DAY!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

U301
08-15-2006, 05:23 PM
Good luck and good hunting to The Yanks!
KUrtz.

3.JG51_Molders
08-15-2006, 05:40 PM
Anyone remember the Canadians that fought to save Hong Kong in the opening days of the war in the Pacific ? Well, here is one person that does.

hueywolf123
08-15-2006, 08:25 PM
Lets not forget the babarous way in which the imperial japanese forces treated their pow's, slavery, torture etc
Shame on them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

baggygreen
08-15-2006, 10:11 PM
But at the same time, whilst we're not forgetting that neither are they, and they've been a nation that has publically acknowledged their past wrongs - something many others have not..

hueywolf123
08-15-2006, 10:33 PM
Yes, true, very true

WTE_Googly
08-15-2006, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by hueywolf123:
Lets not forget the babarous way in which the imperial japanese forces treated their pow's, slavery, torture etc
Shame on them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Don't mention that! I got suspended for a while from the IL-2 forums for stating that, it's a taboo subject http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Don't forget all the other nations that contributed to the war effort!

Shahed_Kazi
08-16-2006, 03:17 AM
First off let me make this clear, I DO NOT support any acts of genocide or murder, torture, humiliation by ANYONE. Indeed we must not cover up history, but history as it was, not as the victor would have us belive, that "they"were evil and "we"were just.

Those kind of comments (and these kind of "days") glorify one man over another, one nation over another and are bound to invite insult, simply for the shallow nature of the thought that one nation in WW2 was better than the rest, or more humane, more just. How laughable.

Let's not forget that the reason for WW2 was founded in the Treaty of Versailles, a document written to ridicule and humiliate as great a nation as Germany was and is today.

Let's not forget that the Allies were the imperialists who enslaved whole populations in their colonial empires, forcing people to grow dye, instead of wheat. The British forced thousands to starve, all across their empire, the most notable examples being India and Ireland. French legionnaires slaughtered thousands in Algeria and Indochina, even AFTER WW2. The British suppressed dissent and revolt by hook or by crook, but mostly by the use of the Lee Enfield, where bullets could not be used, rifle butts and batons were.

Those who go about preaching "their" morality are often those with the most to hide.

Let's not forget that war is a crime. Killing is killing no matter what the licence. Those with any humane thought process would condemn it even in the post 9/11 environment, even if they deemed it a necessary evil.

It is irrelevant whether one man is tortured or a million are. The crime is the same. All parties, specially the Allies led by Britain were as guilty (if not more) than Nazi Germany and the Axis for crimes against humanity.

There is no changing history. The days of fascism and dictatorship are over, for most of us. While celebrating victory, we must not replace the fascism of history with a fascism of the present in our own countries. Free thought and free speech were and still are the first casualties of fascism and indeed, most often, of war.

There should be a day to honor their dead, to honor their will to fight too, for that is equality and that is just.

Since we always talk about the Allies, I'll remind us of the other side. I see no need to remind us of "their finesty hour". there are many amongst us who can do that just as well as I.

Let's honor the brave Japanese, and German war dead this day in addition to all the war dead from all countries that participated in that war, including my country. Nobody ever heard of the Indians (of the geographic area that today comprises India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh) that died fighting the Japanese or the Germans, defending the British Empire. An empire of which they were subjects. Bound by duty to their country, they went to far off lands of which some had never heard of. Many never returned and lie buried or strewn across the battlefields of Europe, Africa and Asia, for the Empire. May they rest in peace.

The Germans for their incredible resilience in the face of extreme hardship and disadvantage.

Let's not forget the millions of acts of heroism by the Germans, the Italians, the Japanese, the Thai, the Romanians, the Bulgarians, and all the other nations of the Axis.

May their heroes rest in peace, those who fought with all their heart for what they believed was right. For their victory over the nations that oppresed and humiliated their fathers, their nation. Those who gave their lives for their country, their leader, and their ideology.

To the Japanese heroes may they rest in peace, those that give their lives knowing that they were lost. Those continuing the fight despite overwhelming odds in the face of inevitable defeat. Those who honored the code of Bushido, to fight till death, and never surrender.

Let's give all fallen a salute even those of the enemy, for that is just and that is right.

this memorial does not honor any war criminals from ANY side.

"And that's all I have to say about that." -Forrest Gump

Salute !

baggygreen
08-16-2006, 03:22 AM
On the whole mate, very well said. The war began for a lot more reasons than simply the treaty of Versailles, but the reasons are so complex it isnt worth going into. I dunno about the 'evil' empire bit either.. and both Germany and Italy were also Imperialist states.

But like i said, on the whole, thats mightily well said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Shahed_Kazi
08-16-2006, 03:29 AM
Thanks for your understanding. I agree with your point about the Empire, it's edited. Naturally you must remember that all empires are evil, specially from the subjects perspective http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif . "Any nation would prefer their own bad government than the good government of a foreign power."

Now as with all honorable memorials, I'll be silent, having said what I had to.

WTE_Googly
08-16-2006, 04:09 AM
That was indeed well said, I agree wholeheartedly.

Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Japanese, the war is over, and life is far too short to hold grudges, I've just watched a few documentries about the subject recently, and found them very disturbing.

However as you said none of our nations are innocent, it's just we seem to remember, and be taught about the recent past, and history does get distorted through time.

Bucketlung
08-16-2006, 08:47 AM
You need to look at the survival rates for prisoners. If you were an Allied soldier in Japanese hands or a German soldier in Russian hands your chances weren't good. There was no excuse for that. I don't remember the figures on Russian soldiers captured by the Germans but I do know the Germans didn't give the Russians the consideration they gave the other allied soldiers. Let's also not forget a lot of German soldiers in Russian hands didn't get home until well into the 1950's. So there was absolutely not equal misery all around.

It is one thing to kill soldiers and civilians during a fight for control but once you have that control the killing becomes something completely different.

You also can't drag up empire building because that was the going practice then. That would be like looking at how a doctor treated patients in 1850's and concluding the doctor was a criminal because he wasn't using modern practices.

U301
08-16-2006, 08:58 AM
How do you want to live?
As the free democratic countries of the "West" do or otherwise?
I say you get the government you vote for and nobody else tells you how to live.
What happened in the passed may not be forgotten or forgiven but that is the perspective it should be seen in. The Passed.
History is written by the winners so it might be biased too some.
To The Yanks, Canadians & Australians on VJ Day.
Good Luck & Good Hunting.
KUrtz.
KUrtz.

cpt_Alex2006
08-16-2006, 12:39 PM
There is no doubt that heroism was shown on many sides or that the peoples of any of the nations are not liable for the past actions of their leaders, but in such an evangalitical post from Shahed there were only shall I say negative remarks for Britain.

Yes we have done atrocious things in the past, but so have many, I say live and let live.

Alex

p.s. yes I am English, proud and true, but with a little love for all mankind.

WilhelmSchulz.
08-16-2006, 02:01 PM
I did not intend this to tour into a political thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

bunkerratt
08-16-2006, 02:22 PM
i can see a targ bomb coming....all i will say is after looking at some of the REVISIONIST VIEWS of the way japan has educated there people...we just showed up 1 day and dropped the bomb for no reason...the rape of nanking never happened..nor did the biological warfare tests on whole chinese villages...imho..they got what they had comming.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

cpt_Alex2006
08-16-2006, 02:22 PM
Wilhelm, you are right and this is childish.

maybe not happy vj day, but lets remember the fallen? from all sides.

Alex

hueywolf123
08-16-2006, 03:30 PM
Ooops, I'm sorry I spoke now. My intention was never to highlight ones atrocities over another. All countries perpertrated them in one way or another. Lest we forget....

Sorry guys, faux pas on my part http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif