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View Full Version : Bf-109 is undermodeled! Proof:



x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 07:39 PM
4.01 has really screwed the bf-109. It's performance has hit a low point, and it's becoming frustrating for the LW pilots to cut a break in this game. Hundreds of people have quit flying because the last patch totally porked this aircraft! Hyperlobby is like a ghost town! This is an obvious indicator that this sim is going down the toilet, as a mass migration of IL-2 supporters have given up hope, and are moving to CFS3.

First, there has been a 40% reduction in overall speed. We all know it. Red pilots are always using their new speed advantage against the 109 to run, because they are too chicken s**t to fight.

Next, the wing loading has been increased by 35%. This results in a drastic reduction in turning ability. Yaks, Spits, and Mustangs out turn the 109 at will. So you can't BnZ because of the lack of speed, and you can't turn against them either! We might as well be flying a defenseless transport!

Lastly, the firepower of the mk108 has been reduced by 17%! No wonder the few loyalists that remain in the 109 opt for the 20mm when available! But on some of the 109's, you don't have the option!! Talk about a "Screw You LW" plan!!

I'm d@mn sick of it. This whole game is biased towards the Allies. When LW pilots try to speak up to get glaring wrongs righted, like:
- the FW cockpit view
- the MG151/20 firepower
- the dirty 109 cockpit glass
- the FW Fuel Tank leak
- the 109 overweight issue
...we are labled "Luftwhiners" and ridiculed!
But if the Allied fan-boi's think their precious Spitfire is 0.3 MPH slower than "Sam Testpilot" said it should be under absolute optimal conditions using enhanced 1948 super octane fuel... or that the 109 needs to be less this, and less that because some jacka$$ WWII pilot with 30 hours in the seat, who thinks he saw a 109 once by squinting his eyes towards the sun, says that the 109 should perform this way or that... Well then, 1C can't trip over themselves fast enough to fix it!!

It just makes me want to throw up. I think I'm going to go play Mechwarrior again.

J_Weaver
08-12-2005, 07:45 PM
Those are exactly the reasons that I have gone back to playing European Air War! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 07:48 PM
К?мÑ€?´ ЧÑ€?сю, Ñ"оÑ"но з?мµÑ"µно. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
08-12-2005, 07:50 PM
"I think I'm going to go play Mechwarrior again."

mechs fishing, hmm

crazyivan1970
08-12-2005, 08:07 PM
Crash you losing your touch... i`ll give it ... 3 out of 10 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hoarmurath
08-12-2005, 08:14 PM
The problem is : everyone expect crash to be fishing....

berg417448
08-12-2005, 08:18 PM
You nice?


http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/files/damage/Ju87_damage_Russia.png

x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Crash you losing your touch... i`ll give it ... 3 out of 10 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You assume this is a trolling thread.

It's not. Too obvious. Just a parody/antithesis of some of the lame a$$ trolls I've seen lately.

Of course those n00berts aren't trying to troll.

Remember Ivan, I officially retired after orchestrating the "Oleg Me-155 April Fool's." No where to go after that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 08:26 PM
Thing is crash is like he said making parody of most whiner blue/red threads. If you do not believe me, your mind is clouded with bias.

To see that I am right just replace Bf-109 with Spitfire, FW-190 with P-47, MG151 with Hispano... you get it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<span class="ev_code_RED">Whine</span>_<span class="ev_code_BLUE">on!</span>

TAGERT.
08-12-2005, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
You assume this is a trolling thread.

It's not. Too obvious.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005RFLK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Hoarmurath
08-12-2005, 08:28 PM
He gave too many numbers, and didn't wrote anything in caps...

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 08:33 PM
<span class="ev_code_RED">Some good points made by Kwiatos but are buried in the P51 thread. Are we all finally coming to a level-heading fair-thinking point of view that maaaaybe just possibly the 109 series from G2 to K4 is a bit overdone?

So many folks cried UFO on both the Hurricane and Spits but for some strange reason the 109s are immune to the same scrutiny and criticisms. Sometimes the little buggers just flat out defy physics.

The list:

Bf 109 in PF is actually overmoddeled in:

- to slow stall speed for moddel from G-2 to K-4
- no acceleration stall in hard manevrous and hard turn
- manual prop pitch cheat will allow to get impossible rpms for engine - these cause big bost in turn rate at slow speed and climb turn
- tough DM for 0,50 cal fire

- zoom climb is really overdone. (my addition)

I think we Bf109 will need BIG CHECK AND FIX IN FM!!!


And here come the naysayers looking for tracks and exhaustive testing. A) I personally don't have time to test out each criticism leveled above, and; B) I don't recall seeing mountains of testing employed to get the Spits neutered down.

That is all.</span>


<span class="ev_code_blue">4.01 has really screwed the bf-109. It's performance has hit a low point, and it's becoming frustrating for the LW pilots to cut a break in this game. Hundreds of people have quit flying because the last patch totally porked this aircraft! Hyperlobby is like a ghost town! This is an obvious indicator that this sim is going down the toilet, as a mass migration of IL-2 supporters have given up hope, and are moving to CFS3.

First, there has been a 40% reduction in overall speed. We all know it. Red pilots are always using their new speed advantage against the 109 to run, because they are too chicken s**t to fight.

Next, the wing loading has been increased by 35%. This results in a drastic reduction in turning ability. Yaks, Spits, and Mustangs out turn the 109 at will. So you can't BnZ because of the lack of speed, and you can't turn against them either! We might as well be flying a defenseless transport!

Lastly, the firepower of the mk108 has been reduced by 17%! No wonder the few loyalists that remain in the 109 opt for the 20mm when available! But on some of the 109's, you don't have the option!! Talk about a "Screw You LW" plan!!

I'm d@mn sick of it. This whole game is biased towards the Allies. When LW pilots try to speak up to get glaring wrongs righted, like:
- the FW cockpit view
- the MG151/20 firepower
- the dirty 109 cockpit glass
- the FW Fuel Tank leak
- the 109 overweight issue
...we are labled "Luftwhiners" and ridiculed!
But if the Allied fan-boi's think their precious Spitfire is 0.3 MPH slower than "Sam Testpilot" said it should be under absolute optimal conditions using enhanced 1948 super octane fuel... or that the 109 needs to be less this, and less that because some jacka$$ WWII pilot with 30 hours in the seat, who thinks he saw a 109 once by squinting his eyes towards the sun, says that the 109 should perform this way or that... Well then, 1C can't trip over themselves fast enough to fix it!!

It just makes me want to throw up. I think I'm going to go play Mechwarrior again.</span>

________________________________________________


He gave too many numbers, and didn't wrote anything in caps...

Gotta disagree with tha one. If someone else was author of this blue whine, I believe he would be decently flamed by now. Without much troll accusations.

So I guess LeadSpitter is right after all.

x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
You assume this is a trolling thread.

It's not. Too obvious.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005RFLK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whats the matter TAGERT, did I hit a little close to home for you?
It should be an obvious parody from someone who ISN'T wrapped up in the stupidity of arguing over Allied bias vs Axis bias.

HotelBushranger
08-12-2005, 09:27 PM
Red pilots are always using their new speed advantage against the 109 to run, because they are too chicken s**t to fight.

It's called tactics mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They're smart enough to disengage when they have to.

IMO, people who spend all their time arguing that this plane should be fixed, and that plane is uber, should just get over the fact that this is a simulation, based on aircraft that are 60 years old. As almost all warbirds no longer exist, it is impossible to get accurate imformation. Whining just shows theyre lesser pilots, wouldn't you think that mastering an aircraft that is hypothetically 'porked' would make you a better pilot? Isn't that what counts?
Not directing these comments at anyone in particular, just having my say.

x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Red pilots are always using their new speed advantage against the 109 to run, because they are too chicken s**t to fight.

It's called tactics mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They're smart enough to disengage when they have to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would say I gotcha, even though I wasn't tryin... but your follow on comments debunked that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

MOH_MADMAN
08-12-2005, 10:18 PM
Crasher is that pic of you pointing your fingers in two different directions again?

x__CRASH__x
08-12-2005, 10:57 PM
I've gotten a haircut since then.

EURO_Snoopy
08-12-2005, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
4.01 has really screwed the bf-109. It's performance has hit a low point, and it's becoming frustrating for the LW pilots to cut a break in this game. Hundreds of people have quit flying because the last patch totally porked this aircraft! Hyperlobby is like a ghost town! This is an obvious indicator that this sim is going down the toilet, as a mass migration of IL-2 supporters have given up hope, and are moving to CFS3.

First, there has been a 40% reduction in overall speed. We all know it. Red pilots are always using their new speed advantage against the 109 to run, because they are too chicken s**t to fight.

Next, the wing loading has been increased by 35%. This results in a drastic reduction in turning ability. Yaks, Spits, and Mustangs out turn the 109 at will. So you can't BnZ because of the lack of speed, and you can't turn against them either! We might as well be flying a defenseless transport!

Lastly, the firepower of the mk108 has been reduced by 17%! No wonder the few loyalists that remain in the 109 opt for the 20mm when available! But on some of the 109's, you don't have the option!! Talk about a "Screw You LW" plan!!

I'm d@mn sick of it. This whole game is biased towards the Allies. When LW pilots try to speak up to get glaring wrongs righted, like:
- the FW cockpit view
- the MG151/20 firepower
- the dirty 109 cockpit glass
- the FW Fuel Tank leak
- the 109 overweight issue
...we are labled "Luftwhiners" and ridiculed!
But if the Allied fan-boi's think their precious Spitfire is 0.3 MPH slower than "Sam Testpilot" said it should be under absolute optimal conditions using enhanced 1948 super octane fuel... or that the 109 needs to be less this, and less that because some jacka$$ WWII pilot with 30 hours in the seat, who thinks he saw a 109 once by squinting his eyes towards the sun, says that the 109 should perform this way or that... Well then, 1C can't trip over themselves fast enough to fix it!!

It just makes me want to throw up. I think I'm going to go play Mechwarrior again.

Nice one crash, emigrating to CFS3 indeed, if you hadn't said that you might have fooled me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I just might stick that up on Airwarfare as a Whiners template, replacing aircraft names with 'insert aircraft here'

Stackhouse25th
08-12-2005, 11:33 PM
i agree with whatever crash says - i could care less if they gave germany better weapons, all the allies would still fly is the spit and LA7 anyway.

Jaws2002
08-12-2005, 11:53 PM
Even wrong bite works sometimes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

-HH-Quazi
08-13-2005, 12:35 AM
How many flyable ac do we have in this game now? Just fly another for now, log your complaints/wishes through the proper channels. It would be nice to have the support of others that are in agreement, provide the data to uphold your complaints, and wait until the final patch for the series is released.

You seem to have some legitimate complaints. But don't let it drive you from flying this sim. If CFS3 is better in your opinion, then by all means fly it. But their are other LW ac that gets the job done in IL2 m8. Don't get so excited m8. You're a trip. I've never seen m8's get so excited over a game in my life. And you aren't the first.

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
I just might stick that up on Airwarfare as a Whiners template, replacing aircraft names with 'insert aircraft here'

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Just make sure you give me credit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
How many flyable ac do we have in this game now? Just fly another for now, log your complaints/wishes through the proper channels. It would be nice to have the support of others that are in agreement, provide the data to uphold your complaints, and wait until the final patch for the series is released.

You seem to have some legitimate complaints. But don't let it drive you from flying this sim. If CFS3 is better in your opinion, then by all means fly it. But their are other LW ac that gets the job done in IL2 m8. Don't get so excited m8. You're a trip. I've never seen m8's get so excited over a game in my life. And you aren't the first.
I am a kind fisherman. So today I will catch and release... even though I wasn't fishing at all...

Quazi... it was a joke, mate. A joke.

MEGILE
08-13-2005, 01:12 AM
Crash, got track?
I'm interested to know where those figures came from.
They seem almost... made up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

SeaNorris
08-13-2005, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
Hyperlobby is like a ghost town!

hehe, you tripped there

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/IL-2SeaNorris/fish.jpg

Where you hoping to catch

http://www.mssafrederick.com/fish-pics/2005/crabby-blue-fin-tuna.JPG


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-13-2005, 06:17 AM
Hey Norris nice HL skin you got there.

Badsight.
08-13-2005, 07:17 AM
while this thread might be a joke , the quote below is exactly how the term "luftwhiner" started , in the FW-190 foward view / cockpit bar threads back in 2002


Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
When LW pilots try to speak up ....... we are labled "Luftwhiners" and ridiculed!

EDIT : SeaNorris , those numbers are a ghost town m8 , HL used to max out after a patch release . if Jiri posted here i bet it would confirm less increase over the previous patch releases

SeaNorris
08-13-2005, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Hey Norris nice HL skin you got there.

Yeah, one of Foo.Bars HL skins http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Christos_swc
08-13-2005, 07:39 AM
It's true the patch ruined it.
This game is no more for me.

Here's a quote from a 109 ace pilot concerning the 109s abilities:
"Man the 109 owned everything that existed.
I used to fly rings round Spitfires.
P-51s were easier, I hung on their tail for a little while to amuse myself with their desperate attempts to disingage before I shot them down firing only a couple of low calibre shots into the cockpit.
I usually didn't carry any 30mms coz the P-51 would blow up immediately upon contact with the shells and the resulting blast would hurt me eyes"
Quote from German ace with 100+ Kills.
Can't seem to remember the name.
But I do know he was tall, had blonde hair and liked to get drunk before the flight.
Just forget the name.

SeaNorris
08-13-2005, 07:44 AM
Oh yeah, I remember, his name was

Fisherman Jack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

vanjast
08-13-2005, 09:06 AM
With each patch a lot does change, but I've never had a problem with the changes. I do mainly fly the FW190, but we have a nice online Normandy map with Spits and ME109's. I choose the Me109 mainly and sometimes we whip them, sometimes they whip us.
Like any game when you're good, you're hot, but when you're really bad... well off to the camp pub I go ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
You assume this is a trolling thread.

It's not. Too obvious.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005RFLK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Whats the matter TAGERT, did I hit a little close to home for you?
It should be an obvious parody from someone who ISN'T wrapped up in the stupidity of arguing over Allied bias vs Axis bias. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Gotcha! Hook, Line and Sinker! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 03:35 PM
ohh, I get it. So when you are a dumba$$ the rest of the time, those AREN'T trolls?


Gotcha

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
ohh, I get it. So when you are a dumba$$ the rest of the time, those AREN'T trolls?


Gotcha NICE! Looks like I stuck GOLD with that one!

Xiolablu3
08-13-2005, 04:01 PM
I may have given Crash the benefit of the doubt with this one, except for one thing. The ommision of any 'proof' (which is quoted in the title) in the actual post. Its all just whines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
NICE! Looks like I stuck GOLD with that one!
And where did you "stuck" that gold?


nm, I don't wanna know.

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
NICE! Looks like I stuck GOLD with that one!
And where did you "stuck" that gold?


nm, I don't wanna know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! You poor thing! Sorry, Ill go easy on yah!