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F0_Dark_P
06-07-2006, 10:06 AM
Hi guys i want a WWI flight sim, i download some models to fs2004 and i love them, specialy the Albatross D.III http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif but i want some action and dogfighting. So i was thinking of buying CFS3 and play Over Flanders Fields, but is that game worth it?, how is OFF? couse i dont want to pay 40$ for CFS3 unless i get something good from it, or should i wait for knights of the sky, i really need your input here guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

cheers

triad773
06-07-2006, 10:10 AM
If you are willing to wait, this one is supposed to be fan-tastic!

http://www.gennadich.com/id/69/

Knights Of The Sky

Deedsundone
06-07-2006, 10:50 AM
If you got a copy of Fighter Squadron:Screaming
demons over europe,I recommend this.

C:\Program\Fighter Squadron\wwi_readme\readme.htm

Looks good for an old game like that and a plethoria of aircrafts.
I like it a lot.
Haven´t really gotten into OFF yet so no real judgment there from me.

leitmotiv
06-07-2006, 10:57 AM
I did just what you are planning. Forget it. CFS3 is wretched. OFF is a cunning little mod but it is based on a wretched flight model, has tons of bugs (can't use the rear gun in two-seaters and they have no AI to operate it so you can't use the two-seaters). Hold out 'til fall---Third Wire also has a WWI air sim due to come out then. By the time the modders get OFF up and running Oleg will be retiring the BATTLE OF BRITAIN system!

major_setback
06-07-2006, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
If you got a copy of Fighter Squadron:Screaming
demons over europe,I recommend this.

C:\Program\Fighter Squadron\wwi_readme\readme.htm

Looks good for an old game like that and a plethoria of aircrafts,from britian,france,italy(2),russia(2),america(1,Curtis s jenny).
I like it a lot.
Myself isn´t so thrilled about OFF but others swears by it.

Screamin Demons over Europe got me hooked on (virtual) WWII flying, I should relly try the updates. That is really such a good game...ah...the memories http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif.

vocatx
06-07-2006, 11:18 AM
I had been messing around with OFF from time to time and really enjoying it, but the more time I put in on it, the more CFS 3 rose from the background. Also, I could never figure out how to connect to any one on-line and that is what I really wanted to do. I'm thinking of deleting both.

If you already have CFS 3, or know someone who will loan it to you, download OFF and give it a try. You might like it. I wouldn't go out and buy CFS just to install OFF.

F0_Dark_P
06-07-2006, 11:38 AM
Thank you guys for the tip about Screamin Demons over Europe, but that is a bit old for me, i tried Red Baron 3D to btw ...not a very nice experiance xD.

Saw now that i can get CFS3 for about 10$ but now when u guys say that OFF really aint that good i think i skip it, it looks like i cant do more then wait for knights of the sky then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-07-2006, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by F0_Dark_P:
...it looks like i cant do more then wait for knights of the sky then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif


A few months isn't too bad. That's what I'm gonna do.


TB

Troll2k
06-07-2006, 02:33 PM
I fly OFF online many times a week.Unfortunately there are very few OFF servers available.Almost all are mission(coop with respawn) type games.There will be an occasional df game.Most are in the evening central daylight time.

To fly online you need the game and all the patches.

The flight models and scenery are nothing like cfs3.However some cfs3 bugs do surface.

I have had no problem jumping in the back seat and using the rear gun on approaching aircraft or ground targets.

The developers are very hands on and post frequently on the forum. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?f=8


My own personal opinion is that since the merger of Gennadich and D-Strict that their game will be delayed.

If you can find cfs3 in a bargin bin get it and OFF.

bzhyoyo
06-07-2006, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
can't use the rear gun in two-seaters and they have no AI to operate it so you can't use the two-seaters).

Somebody didn't bother reading the readme...
Don't listen to him, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

There are some bugs, most coming from cfs3, but if you're looking for a WWI sim, this is the best you'll get at the moment.

some different opinions there :

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=19976

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=10557

The-Pizza-Man
06-07-2006, 04:22 PM
I love playing the single player campaign, if you play it full real you always keep an eye of your own lines and you never ever ever fly over enemy airbases. One hole in your fuel tank and your going down in not to long. I love the Se5, and because there are 6DoF you can just look around the head rest to check your six.

leitmotiv
06-07-2006, 06:26 PM
I will correct myself, you can take the rear seat---what I was unable to do was to get my rear gunner to shoot at anything. One of the developers gave me to understand this was a glitch which they were trying to fix, and in the meantime to use the the crib which shows where all the aircraft are and designate a target to the gunner by some means. This was not interesting to me at all. No matter what---and I am a dedicated WWI flying fiend---the CFS3-derived flight model is crude as can be compared to the Maddox one. OFF is charming but, really, it doesn't cut it, and will instantly be a joke when the Third Wire and Russian WWI sims hit the market. By the way, I donated 100 bucks to it because I thought it was a noble, but absurd effort. And, I did read all the documentation.

Slice
06-07-2006, 06:41 PM
Asburd is a little strong many people like this, and many from the RB3D mod developers are now involved.. must have something. Donating $100 is very noble so it must have some merit

If anyone who liked RB3D with mods is interested.. these top guys from RB3D, OvS and Rabu are working on lots of stunning squad and ace skins for example..
http://www.rhoag.com/_OFF_CFS3/Phase%202/evening%20boyau-01.jpg
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=19797
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=18480
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=19092
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=19797

robbruce1
06-07-2006, 07:51 PM
If you can afford CFS3 then go for it. OFF is well worth the download. I have seen many forum posts by many Il-2 users who have initially baulked at using anything to do with CFS3 but who have ended up enjoying OFF. It will certainly fill the gap until KOT is released.

bzhyoyo
06-07-2006, 11:40 PM
cfs3 supports rear gunners and they do shoot : what you didn't get apparently is that some two seaters are NOT finished and will be completed for phase 2 - OFF is pretty much WIP.
Did you try the Biff? I can assure you the rear gunner is pretty efficient!
With TIR and 6DOF, the immersion factor in OFF is quite strong.
About the FMs : some like them (including real life pilots), some don't. I've never flown an aircraft, more so a WWI crate, so I will not comment on this.

PikeBishop
06-08-2006, 04:03 AM
Dear Pizza Man,
Just wanted to ask how you are able to lean around the headrest in the SE5. When I have tried to do it the view moves AWAY. The only way that I can look behind is to set the distance so that I am 'in' the headrest graphics so when I look round I sit up and can see the tail through the headrest. The TIR people say that it is a problem that they are still trying to solve and it would appear that it is a case of trying to reverse the maths once you are past the 90 deg mark. Standing up to look over the headrest is not practical and it often loses the view.
Having said this I think TIR has a lot going for it.......its just the occasional problem like that one, but I'm sure that they will find a way around it over time.
Best regards,
SLP

ljazz
06-08-2006, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by robbruce1:
If you can afford CFS3 then go for it. OFF is well worth the download. I have seen many forum posts by many Il-2 users who have initially baulked at using anything to do with CFS3 but who have ended up enjoying OFF. It will certainly fill the gap until KOT is released.

Count me in that crowd. The FM's seem fine to me.... although I'm not a real pilot..... but comparing them to what we have in IL2/PF, I'd say they are pretty good. Also, the graphics are great. CFS3, and in my opinion, IL2/PF pale in comparison in this department (except for water). The one thing I think OFF has going for it that nothing else does is the immersion factor. The war going on below you is incredible, and feels "alive." Flak going off, stuff blowing up, troops marching. I dig the dog barking when you go into land! I think the campaign rocks too.

Granted it's still a work in progress, and there are a lot of things I'd like to see fixed or added, but it's well worth getting involved in now, and keeping up with.

ljazz

ytareh
06-08-2006, 04:57 AM
Cant get the thing to download....keep getting interupted downloads.Tried both servers

Troll2k
06-08-2006, 12:12 PM
Ytareh:

If you go here someone nearby will send you a cd.
Just post where you are.

http://sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=10310&page=6

RAF92_Moser
06-09-2006, 06:52 PM
It's really a nice sim. And free. Don't take the criticism for CFS3 and OFF seriously. Most of the claims here are biased and unsupported. Give it a try, I liked it.

leitmotiv
06-09-2006, 09:10 PM
Hardly biased. Played it two months and contributed 100 dollars. Finally grew weary of bugs and atrocious CFS3 flight model---believe me, if you love the FM in Maddox sims, this one will seem utterly risible. Also, AI gunnery fantastic unless you do as the developers suggested and reduce it to lowest capability.

tatali0n.
06-14-2006, 03:41 AM
Long time IL2/FB/PF fan myself. Brought CFS3 first, was horror struck, then discovered IL2 in the budget bin, and was rescued. Never looked back. CFS3 was total junk, remains total junk.

Blew the dust off the CDs, however, and reinstalled it last week, just to try OFF. Had horrific problems downloading the OFF install, so tried playing vanilla CFS3 for a while, just to refamiliarise. Quickly remembered why I utterly despised it.

Eventually downloaded the OFF install in installments from Polovski's site (http://www.polovski.com/offdownload.htm). A bit longwinded dl'ing 16 40mb installments in this age of billion-mb+ bandwidth broadband, but worth the half-hour's investment to get a working install.

Installed it, along with their "superpatch". Absolutely fantastic. The immersion is intense. Sure, it's still CFS3 somewhere under the hood, and for the first few flights I found myself missing some of the much loved and familiar features of the IL2 series.

But the change in pace of dogfighting a biplane at 90kts, skipping and dodging at low altitude over the hedgerows of Flanders . . . Utterly superb. The clear attention to detail of the mob responsible for OFF forgives a multitude of sins on the part of the engine underneath. I'd say they've redeemed the irredeemable.

As an aside, if there were problems with the AI gunnery being fantasticly accurate, either I've been terribly lucky or they've patched them.

Personally, and this is just a personal opinion; I'd buy CFS3 just to play the OFF mod if I didn't already have it. Though I'd probably try and get it cheap off eBay or somewhere and donate the difference to the OFF team http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S!

leitmotiv
06-14-2006, 08:41 AM
I was extremely enthusiastic about OFF right after I started playing it, and gushed all over on this forum and OFF's, but, in time, my enthusiasm waned. (1) The AI gunnery is incredible, as the developers have confessed---their solution: downgrade AI to lowest skill level---how will they deal with it in the forthcoming patch? I was aghast to see them accept a completely intuitive solution posted on the forum rather than doing any research on gunfire effectiveness in WWI. (2) Have you noticed how hard it is to shoot down anything other than the zep---even if you close to point-blank range? In my case the novelty of a WWI sim wore off after about a month because I don't like CFS3's cheesy flight model (after IL-2, seeing a red "stall" notification instead of judder is "from need"). I am wary of any bunch who seems to avoid genuine research---it is hard enough to get things right when the developers are doing their hardest to make an accurate simulator.

Deedsundone
06-14-2006, 09:57 AM
FS-WW1 mod vs OFF

FS-WW1 SE5
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/FSin.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/Fsout.jpg
OFF SE5
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/offin.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/offout.jpg
To me the FS-WW1 Mod looks pretty good for a game from 1999.The sound is nice too and the FM feels (to me)better than OFFs.
That OFF shines in is the ground,clouds and wheater effects.I find it very nice.
And that intro music.What´s it called?...that sad tune http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif love it.

Feathered_IV
06-14-2006, 09:16 PM
There is no way to look around with the mouse in OFF is there? I'd probably go get it if it did (no track ir).

RAF92_Moser
06-14-2006, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
There is no way to look around with the mouse in OFF is there? I'd probably go get it if it did (no track ir).

Are you serious?

Feathered_IV
06-15-2006, 04:43 AM
Not often. But I am this time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anybody want to answer this question for free?

leitmotiv
06-15-2006, 05:09 AM
I use the TrackIR---used to prefer the mouse---anyway---you will be forced to use the hat button on your stick with CFS3---another reason I loathed it pre-TrackIR. Paleolithic systems here, no Oleg-style mouse view control. Arga warga.

Feathered_IV
06-15-2006, 05:33 AM
Maybe I'll hang on for KotS. That one will be puterleat http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
06-15-2006, 05:36 AM
Less Trubba let's hope.

The-Pizza-Man
06-15-2006, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
There is no way to look around with the mouse in OFF is there? I'd probably go get it if it did (no track ir).

I use the 2 hats on my X-45 stick to control the view in OFF. I use a hat in Il-2 for that matter as well.

bzhyoyo
06-15-2006, 12:11 PM
I am wary of any bunch who seems to avoid genuine research---it is hard enough to get things right when the developers are doing their hardest to make an accurate simulator.

That's pure slander. You don't read the SOH OFF forums much, do you?
A bit of reading for you then :
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=19406&page=1

The claim that archie should be easier has been researched, not decided on a whim and this thread proves it.

leitmotiv
06-15-2006, 12:30 PM
Hm, can't slander in print. The issue was not Ack Ack. The developer was trying to come to grips with the problem of AI air-to-air gunfire, which was way too deadly in OFF. I suggested a look at the most authoritative work in print on WWI aerial weapons, FLYING GUNS: WORLD WAR I, but he was enthused by a posting which suggested range and effectiveness penalties based on speculative/intuitive guessing. This did not impress me at all. I realize this item has a very loyal group of supporters, but, cut the cake as you will, it is not up to Maddox standards and will quickly be forgotten when the two professionally done WWI sims come out.

bzhyoyo
06-15-2006, 12:52 PM
English is not my native tongue, thanks I've learned something.
I was a member of the OFF team (no longer am) but I can tell you from inside that, though this is the work of amateurs, it has been done with dedication and there are some people in the team who are there only to carry out research. Some things are outside the reach of the team (they can't modify the engine). That may be the case with AA. So work arounds are to be found, but you can't accuse them of not wanting to achieve the greatest realism they can.

As to the future, my crystal ball tells me that there will be some people who will not forgot OFF.

leitmotiv
06-15-2006, 01:06 PM
I make no bad judgments on your labors, bzhyoyo, and the rest of the team may be terrific, but I did communicate with, I believe, Winding Man, under my user name "mcattermole" on the forum, and I thought he was not exactly going in a way that was going to get OFF a reputation for great ballisics or great physics.