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BigKahuna_GS
03-27-2005, 01:28 PM
S!

Along with taking a ride in the backseat of a WW2 Warbird to get a feeling of what is was like to fly these planes(P51, T-6 trainer). Try flying AirCombat USA. It's not the same as real air combat because the loser obviously does not die, but you get a good feeling for what airplanes could actually do during combat along with pilot limitations.

It is as close as we will ever get to dogfighting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.aircombatusa.com/index.html

THE AIRCRAFT

SIAI MARCHETTI and EXTRA 300L

http://www.aircombatusa.com/images/kill.jpg

The SIAI Marchetti SF-260 Aircraft


The SF-260 was designed by the Italian Dott Ing. Stelio Frati: SF stands for SIAI Marchetti (builder) and Frati; 260 denotes the hp. The aircraft was certified in April 1966. Twenty-seven Air Forces fly approximately 1000 SF-260's and the USAF has considered the aircraft for its new EFS (Enhanced Flight Screener). Less than 100 (some new, some ex-military) have been imported to the U.S. Others have been used as fighter trainers by NATO forces.

Under wing hard points can be equipped to carry rockets and guns. Although it is a piston single, it flies like a small jet with small wings and speed. Like a jet's wings, the 260's are machete thin and perfectly taper in chord and thickness. With small laminar flow wings it doesn't leap off the ground so every takeoff is made with 20 degrees of flap. It is flown from the right seat with your left hand on the throttle and your right hand on the stick; fighter-jock-style if flying alone.

It is capable of doing aerobatics with full fuel (tips and mains) and two people wearing parachutes. Most 260's are painted military gray and matte black. With flush riveting, swept fin, sharp wings, tip tanks, sliding canopy and potent cowl it proclaims some sort of aeronautical aristocracy. If you load up too many g's in a steep turn the wing signals with a sharp buffet, relax the back pressure a fraction and it's flying again, smoothly and instantly. 30-degree bank turns can be made via aileron, and feet on the floor. Stall and spins are classical with clean straight breaks.

The 260 is either flying or it's not flying, with no hint of mush or slop separating the two. The wing loading, coupled with the geometry of the stabilizing surfaces, gives it a faultless response to turbulence. Many an airplane stays flustered for a second or two after an encounter with bumps, with a swift jolt that passes instantly, due not to any form of artificial stability augmentation but the superb design of Frati at the drawing board 26 years ago.

Note: The above was based on an article in "Flying" magazine September 1991. For more details refer to this article. R. M. Garrett, 22 July 1992 The SF-260 was also featured in "Plane and Pilot" Magazine, Sept. 1996; article titled The Sexiest Italian. Current Price tag (new) $450,000. Performance and Speeds:

Marchetti SF-260
AIRCRAFT SPECIFICATIONS
Wingspan 27.4 ft
Length 23.3 ft
Height 7.9 ft
Wing Area 108.7 sq ft
FAA Cert. Load Factor -3 / +6 g's
Engine Lycoming O-540-E4A5
Horsepower 260HP
Propeller Hartzal 2 Blade,. Constant Speed

http://www.aircombatusa.com/images/extra300l.jpg
The Extra Flugzeugbau 300L Aircraft
AIR COMBAT USA TAKES DELIVERY OF TWO EXTRA 300Ls

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_sml/AC0302-0003.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_sml/AC0402-0006.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_sml/AC0302-0001.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_sml/AC0302-0004.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_sml/AC0302-0002.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_sml/AC0504-0007.jpg

BigKahuna_GS
03-27-2005, 01:43 PM
S!

Pics came out to small, I'll try again.

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_lrg/AC0402-0006.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_lrg/AC0302-0003.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_lrg/AC0302-0002.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_lrg/AC0302-0001.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_lrg/AC0302-0004.jpg

https://www.kahunaprints.com/images/img_lrg/AC0504-0007.jpg

_____

Von_Zero
03-27-2005, 03:10 PM
nice, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
am i the only one that thinks the plane in the last pic resembles a Fw? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
03-27-2005, 04:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Zero:
nice, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
am i the only one that thinks the plane in the last pic resembles a Fw? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nope looks more like a hellcat or even a wildcat to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
03-27-2005, 04:50 PM
The Bearcat was heavily influenced by the Focke Wulf. Bob Hall flew the Focke Wulf in England and did his best to influence Grumman designers to create something smaller and more manueverable than traditional navy fighters to come up with a carrier plane with the impressive speed and manueverability of the Focke Wulf. The wing design is the same NACA 230 airfoil that Grummand used on the Hellcat but I'd imagine the overall configuration of the plane was based as much as possible on the Focke Wulf given how much Bob Hall liked it and how highly regarded Bob Hall was at Grumman.

BaldieJr
03-27-2005, 08:48 PM
I always thought someone should do a combat sim featuring SF.260's/Extra 300's/Pitts S's.

FI_Willie
03-27-2005, 09:54 PM
Been there and done that. It's a hoot. That plane is FUN.

TX-EcoDragon
03-27-2005, 11:20 PM
I would most highly recomend Fighter Combat International from an equipment, as well as instructor/pilot standpoint, though ACUSA has more locations. (FCI is in AZ)

FCI is also a good place to go to get Emergency Maneuvers Training (Based on Rich Stowell's methods), spin training in all types of spins, and basic acro as well.

See them here:

http://www.fightercombat.com

or at their site geared for pilots:

http://www.fcitraining.com/

LStarosta
03-28-2005, 08:53 AM
Pssshhh . . . I've done it in a Piper Cherokee...

horseback
03-28-2005, 09:27 AM
Note on the Bearcat:it could turn a lot better than the FW, and the top speed & accelleration were said to be phenomenal. By all accounts, it was one of the fastest and most maneuverable piston engined fighters ever built.

The one in Kahuna's sig is a heavily modified racing plane; the bubble top is much lower than the stock version, and most racers have had the wings clipped even shorter. You can clearly see the higher sight lines for the pilot than on the FW, with the cowl line sloping sharply downwards from the cockpit.

It was actually built as a lightweight fighter using a similar philosophy as the contemporary P-51F and H models. If there is any FW influence, it is reflected in the compact lines and the bubble canopy, the first in the Grumman line to have one. Even so, its range on internal fuel was still over 1,100 miles, approximately double that of the FW 190A-8.

cheers

horseback

badbeat2005
03-28-2005, 09:47 AM
I was watching the movie €œThe Aviator€ and when I saw the scene with the Hughes racer I realized immediately that Kurt Tank based the FW-190 on it. In fact seen from a low front quarter view they look almost identical. So if Bob Hall was influenced by Kurt Tank and Kurt Tank was influenced by Hughes. Who was Hughes influenced by? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS: I€ve also read that the Hawker Fury design was influenced by the 190

Jungmann
03-28-2005, 09:52 AM
ACM with an instructor is fun, but beware of any outfit that flies T-34s. I refer to an article in last month's Flying--check it out. There were three fatals in the last few years with T-34s due to structural failures. The airframes are boucoup old, many of the spar fittings are non original with the a/c, and they are being flown beyond their G limits. The FAA first required spar x-rays, then a spar reinforcing cap, and as of now, because of the rash of accidents, the entire fleet has been grounded.

But there's 400 or so of them in private hands, and the pressure of so large an owners group may get them flying again. My advice--avoid them. And this is from someone who flew 100 hours on a T-24 in the Civil Air Patrol, and considered it one of the most fun airplanes he ever flew.

And yeah, the S-M is one great airplane. Got a buddy who's had one for years. The Ferrari of airplanes. Grab a ride, if you ever can.

Cheers,

LStarosta
03-28-2005, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by badbeat2005:
I was watching the movie €œThe Aviator€ and when I saw the scene with the Hughes racer I realized immediately that Kurt Tank based the FW-190 on it. In fact seen from a low front quarter view they look almost identical. So if Bob Hall was influenced by Kurt Tank and Kurt Tank was influenced by Hughes. Who was Hughes influenced by? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS: I€ve also read that the Hawker Fury design was influenced by the 190 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I dunno, it looks to me more like a birdcage Corsair without the bent wings...

T_O_A_D
03-28-2005, 12:03 PM
Well the next time you come up my way bring your video. I would love to see it. Been contemplating this very thing myself. Although its a few years away. Got to use funds now to raise the kids.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI_Willie:
Been there and done that. It's a hoot. That plane is FUN. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ploughman
03-28-2005, 12:10 PM
Yeah, us Brits weren't sold on radials untill the Fw-190 showed what could be done with them. The result of that 'education' was the Fury.

badbeat2005
03-28-2005, 12:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by badbeat2005:
I was watching the movie €œThe Aviator€ and when I saw the scene with the Hughes racer I realized immediately that Kurt Tank based the FW-190 on it. In fact seen from a low front quarter view they look almost identical. So if Bob Hall was influenced by Kurt Tank and Kurt Tank was influenced by Hughes. Who was Hughes influenced by? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS: I€ve also read that the Hawker Fury design was influenced by the 190 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I dunno, it looks to me more like a birdcage Corsair without the bent wings... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the side it does look something like an early corsair. From other angles it looks more 190 like to me.

http://www.wrightools.com/hughes/pictures/early_pix.JPG

http://www.wrightools.com/hughes/

IV-JG51_L.Z
03-28-2005, 12:18 PM
gotta question about AirCombat USA:

If my opponent gets on my 6, and I chop throttle and drop flaps, and he bounces off my plane and into the ground, do I get credit for the kill?

LStarosta
03-28-2005, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IV-JG51_L.Z:
gotta question about AirCombat USA:

If my opponent gets on my 6, and I chop throttle and drop flaps, and he bounces off my plane and into the ground, do I get credit for the kill? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To answer your question:

Yes, and as a token of appreciation from them, you get to replace both aircraft!

Blutarski2004
03-28-2005, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IV-JG51_L.Z:
gotta question about AirCombat USA:

If my opponent gets on my 6, and I chop throttle and drop flaps, and he bounces off my plane and into the ground, do I get credit for the kill? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Only if he hits the ground before you do.