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View Full Version : How real do you want it?



Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 03:16 AM
After reading the True story of a Hurri pilot switched to spits mkII them vb's then Typhoons you read alot about life in a real squadron. He talks about training and aircraft failures and maintanace and the such. You learn alot sooooo

JtD
11-27-2008, 04:05 AM
I wouldn't want them on random. I'd want them for some reason, say bad maintenance, fouling spark plugs, bad rods, poor riveting etc.

Though this may appear random to the casual player, the engineer and the mechanic wouldn't agree.

Pigeon_
11-27-2008, 04:57 AM
I'm with JtD here.

deskpilot
11-27-2008, 05:16 AM
such realistic mechanical failures etc might seem like a good idea but they would be way too exasperating in practice. Most of us go on IL2 in our precious spare time and want to hav efun as well as improve our skills. i don't wantr to waste my free time crashing due to some uncontrollable mechanical failure that had nothing to do with me. Too much realism would drive me mad. It's been tried in other games and was just as annoying.

jasonbirder
11-27-2008, 06:38 AM
I'd love it as real as possible...
Its only the online dogfighters who would resent jammed guns or a missing cylinder every now & again!

julian265
11-27-2008, 06:49 AM
I'd love the option to turn this stuff on.

I'd like to see more parts fail as a result of bad piloting (ie too high mani pressure for the revs, etc)

Maybe servers should turn off *random* failures though.

triad773
11-27-2008, 07:54 AM
I think it would be nice to have this option. I know that engine failure is something real pilots train for.

Sometimes I have been flying solo, I kill the engine. I turn up the trim, flaps and such to see how far I can get that sucker to go. Then, I restart the engine- which is sometimes surprisingly hard, but rewarding when it works (sometimes it doesn't work in time!). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

general_kalle
11-27-2008, 08:11 AM
voted for the one with most realism but it should be the option to turn different stuff on off in Realism settings..that would be awesome.

especially engine failures and gear would be nice to have

Heliopause
11-27-2008, 08:49 AM
I voted random engine failures. Gear problems are already in game ( I remember a Ki-43 I was flying the other day...).
Guns not firing also happens after being shot up.

Divine-Wind
11-27-2008, 09:51 AM
Random failures and etc would be interesting, but offline only. I'd be kind of ****ed if my engine quit in the middle of a big furball. But offline I probably wouldn't mind that, but I'd have to play it to know.

What I'd like to see, personally, is the ability to disable various systems (engines, gear, guns, etc.) in the FMB. You can do this in MSFS, and it makes for some interesting scenarios. I could do so much with that kind of thing in Il-2...

SeaFireLIV
11-27-2008, 09:59 AM
The whole thing. Absolutely.

I really don`t care if on takeoff (in a co op)my engine fails to start or even catches fire or if my bullets jam cos I`m inverted in a dogfight. If it happened in the real thing then I`m all for it.

I was gutted when I heard that random spark plug failures were in, but got taken out cos people thought it was a bug.

crucislancer
11-27-2008, 01:56 PM
I'm for everything, online or off. Random failures in particular would be fantastic.

tagTaken2
11-27-2008, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The whole thing. Absolutely.

If it happened in the real thing then I`m all for it.


Death was what frequently happened in the real thing, but I don't see that on the list.

As long as random failure can be switched off, who cares?
I wouldn't enjoy it because it's out of my control, nothing I do in the game would make any difference, so why would I bother?

Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 03:46 PM
Imagine your in a fully loaded tempest preparing to attack vehicles in normandy. Your bombed up and your fuel is topped off. You throttle up to head down the runway and as you start to climb, Wham your engine failes. you struggle to keep a wing from dropping as your right on the edge of the stall and 20 feet from the ground you lose and she flips over digging in a wing. you cartwheel and slide to a stop. You survived this time!

This scenario happened alot in the book im reading. several deaths from engine failure on take off and several more from engine failure over the channel. and many more close calls when the authors aircraft failed him and he barely made it.

Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 03:49 PM
Also just little things like the reflector sight bulb burning out happened on occasion. Their are litteraly hundred of minor inconveiniances that could cause problems with your mission, What about an aircraft that just starts running hot etc.

RPMcMurphy
11-27-2008, 03:56 PM
I was attacking tanks in a jug last night and when I pushed the fire button nothing happened. No rockets. My joy stick is old, button was sticky. It made mad angry, but it was realistic I geuss.

I would like a difficulty setting involving random failures.
Also: Wind/crosswind landings,Prop-wash from other planes, and Torpedos that can be destroyed while they are enroute

ElAurens
11-27-2008, 04:20 PM
Some of you old timers may remember in the old days of IL2 that you could foul plugs on startup.

Made no sense online as all you had to do was to hit refly to get a fresh aircraft.

Would be cool in an offline environment though.

WTE_Galway
11-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Galway's recommendations for enhancing immersion:


- wear a flying helmet goggles and mae west

- When flying open cockpit planes like the IL2 place a large fan and position it to blow in your face

- If flying open cockpit in the rain have your spouse/partner/friend spray water into the fan and squirt you with a water pistol.

- Run your PC from a petrol generator and use a large duct to collect oil and petrol fumes and direct them towards your face

- on a rough landing have your spouse/partner/friend hit you with a bat. This will have the added advantage of getting them involved in your hobby

- you may also with to have them blow smoke in your face and set fire to your trousers when you get shot down

SeaFireLIV
11-27-2008, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Galway's recommendations for enhancing immersion:


- wear a flying helmet goggles and mae west

- When flying open cockpit planes like the IL2 place a large fan and position it to blow in your face

- If flying open cockpit in the rain have your spouse/partner/friend spray water into the fan and squirt you with a water pistol.

- Run your PC from a petrol generator and use a large duct to collect oil and petrol fumes and direct them towards your face

- on a rough landing have your spouse/partner/friend hit you with a bat. This will have the added advantage of getting them involved in your hobby

- you may also with to have them blow smoke in your face and set fire to your trousers when you get shot down

That`s all?

I was expecting the inevitable `tie a shotgun behind you and rig it to fire when you`re hit by a shell from an enemy aircraft` or the ` set up your PC to delete your sim when you die in game`... comments. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Divine-Wind
11-27-2008, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
- on a rough landing have your spouse/partner/friend hit you with a bat. This will have the added advantage of getting them involved in your hobby

- you may also with to have them blow smoke in your face and set fire to your trousers when you get shot down
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

HerrGraf
11-27-2008, 06:57 PM
All the above would be interesting in a campaign. Not so interesting in a DF server and definitely no fun in a quick mission envirement.

Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 07:37 PM
Well obviously in a dogfight server all realisms gona anyways. this would be strictly for your career.

Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 07:39 PM
You could foul your plugs? I dont remeber that and Ive been flying "This" sim since the original demo. Of course back then I had difficulty set on "Nancy Boy" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It took me a long time to come around to realistic settings but now I wouldnt look back!

Freiwillige
11-27-2008, 07:41 PM
Okay now im thinking, What exactly did the fouled plugs do? and how would one foul them?

Bearcat99
11-27-2008, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by deskpilot:
such realistic mechanical failures etc might seem like a good idea but they would be way too exasperating in practice. Most of us go on IL2 in our precious spare time and want to hav efun as well as improve our skills. i don't wantr to waste my free time crashing due to some uncontrollable mechanical failure that had nothing to do with me. Too much realism would drive me mad. It's been tried in other games and was just as annoying.

Yes but having the option, just like now you can chooseto have relative realism would be nice.. I do agree that time is tight sometimes.. and I hate being online for 90 minutes and only getting to fly one or 2 coops ....


Originally posted by jasonbirder:
I'd love it as real as possible...
Its only the online dogfighters who would resent jammed guns or a missing cylinder every now & again!

I totally disagree... I think it is more geared towards how much time one has to do this....

Divine-Wind
11-27-2008, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I totally disagree... I think it is more geared towards how much time one has to do this....
I agree. (lol) For someone with time or lots of enthusiasm (As many of here do, although maybe not both at the same time), jamming and failures would be, for the most part, a welcome addition. But for the casual player, I'm guessing they'd be sick of randomly losing an engine or having their guns jam during a furball.

Skoshi Tiger
11-27-2008, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
What exactly did the fouled plugs do?


Fouled plugs stop the cylnder from firing or causes it to fire irregularly. Your engine runs rough, is hard to start and you don't get the normal amount of power.



Originally posted by Freiwillige:
and how would one foul them?

You can have wet fouling and dry fouling. A number of things can cause it. Wrong mixture setting, too lean and you get build ups of a brittle crumbly stuff from the lead and other additives in the fuel, too rich and you get wet oily soot from the unburnt fuel. Oil from the engine can also cause fouling (Most of the radial engines had to be cranked backwards a few rotations before starting because oil would drain into the lower cylnders), as can having the wrong temperature spark plugs.

Here is a short list of fouled spark plugs. It's automotive but the same principles apply in aero engines.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html

Avont29
11-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
What exactly did the fouled plugs do?


Fouled plugs stop the cylnder from firing or causes it to fire irregularly. Your engine runs rough, is hard to start and you don't get the normal amount of power.



Originally posted by Freiwillige:
and how would one foul them?

You can have wet fouling and dry fouling. A number of things can cause it. Wrong mixture setting, too lean and you get build ups of a brittle crumbly stuff from the lead and other additives in the fuel, too rich and you get wet oily soot from the unburnt fuel. Oil from the engine can also cause fouling (Most of the radial engines had to be cranked backwards a few rotations before starting because oil would drain into the lower cylnders), as can having the wrong temperature spark plugs.

Here is a short list of fouled spark plugs. It's automotive but the same principles apply in aero engines.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


DANG! why they take that out? i'd love to have settings like that during a coop or whatever

WTE_Galway
11-27-2008, 10:36 PM
I seem to recall a lot of planes in the early version of the game needed to be warmed up to 40C before takeoff as well. Lagg and 109 come to mind.

If that feature did exist in early versions it certainly doesn't any more.

It would be rather amusing to implement in online furball servers and watch all the blown engines as people spawn and immediately whack in the WEP and take off.

ElAurens
11-27-2008, 10:49 PM
Yup, start a 109 on a cold winter map and immediately go full throttle and the engine would loose power/run rough/etc...

Buzzsaw-
11-27-2008, 10:56 PM
Salute

Engine failure as a result of overheating or poor warmup procedures would be a good thing.

I think a sim which has a required warmup, and realistic overheating on the ground circuit, would be a big addition.

Also, for most of these aircraft, you had a series of checks, magneto, rpm, etc. after the initial start, which usually told you if you had a problem. If you failed to catch something in that check, then you deserve to crash... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And if you stayed on the ground too long with your engine running, you got an overheat, which would cause problems.

The idea of a completely 'random' engine failure is not one I like.

Most of the time engine failures occurred with well used aircraft, which were past their prime. Same with hydraulic failures or oil pressure failures/leaks.

Oleg has already showed us that aircraft in single player campaigns will have their paint jobs weather in the course of the player's campaign, I hope he also models in a greater likelyhood of engine failure in an older aircraft.

Ny feeling is, he will... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WTE_Ibis
11-28-2008, 12:50 AM
If you put all of that on a popular server it would be empty within a week.
Though it sounds good all that work to make it happen would be for nought. You would try it three,four,five times then turn the damn thing off.
We're all here to have fun not try to fly broken aircraft.
Guaranteed a poor waste of Olegs valuable time.
another year or so for nothing. If I want to fly around in a heap of crap I could always drag out my old MS flight sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

.

FatCat_99
11-28-2008, 02:01 AM
I want whole package, those who don't want it can solve the problem with one click of the mouse.
http://img253.imagevenue.com/loc378/th_62473_grab0000_122_378lo.jpg (http://img253.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=62473_grab0000_122_378lo.jpg)

FC

tagTaken2
11-28-2008, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Engine failure as a result of overheating or poor warmup procedures would be a good thing.

I think a sim which has a required warmup, and realistic overheating on the ground circuit, would be a big addition.

Also, for most of these aircraft, you had a series of checks, magneto, rpm, etc. after the initial start, which usually told you if you had a problem. If you failed to catch something in that check, then you deserve to crash... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And if you stayed on the ground too long with your engine running, you got an overheat, which would cause problems.

The idea of a completely 'random' engine failure is not one I like.

Most of the time engine failures occurred with well used aircraft, which were past their prime. Same with hydraulic failures or oil pressure failures/leaks.

Oleg has already showed us that aircraft in single player campaigns will have their paint jobs weather in the course of the player's campaign, I hope he also models in a greater likelyhood of engine failure in an older aircraft.

Ny feeling is, he will... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

+1

If I'm screwing up, should be a cost. Random... ptooie.

Sturm_Williger
11-28-2008, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

Engine failure as a result of overheating or poor warmup procedures would be a good thing.

I think a sim which has a required warmup, and realistic overheating on the ground circuit, would be a big addition.

Also, for most of these aircraft, you had a series of checks, magneto, rpm, etc. after the initial start, which usually told you if you had a problem. If you failed to catch something in that check, then you deserve to crash... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And if you stayed on the ground too long with your engine running, you got an overheat, which would cause problems.

The idea of a completely 'random' engine failure is not one I like.

Most of the time engine failures occurred with well used aircraft, which were past their prime. Same with hydraulic failures or oil pressure failures/leaks.

Oleg has already showed us that aircraft in single player campaigns will have their paint jobs weather in the course of the player's campaign, I hope he also models in a greater likelyhood of engine failure in an older aircraft.

Ny feeling is, he will... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I certainly hope so. If it can be switched off, then that's fine for the furball servers, but think how awesome it would be to have tracked aircraft ageing in an online war for example... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
11-28-2008, 04:34 AM
EAW had bullet jam failures if you fired while throwing the aircraft around too much. Your parachute could also fail to open. Didn`t stop people going online. As long as it`s OPTIONAL, it`s not a problem.

Of course, it`s due to the naysayers here and there why more and more so called `simulations` are really arcade games where people pretend to themselves to be flying a simulation then think they`re on the same level as their heroes afterwards. The Users want all the GOOD bits, but none of the bad bits because it would no `fun`. A lot of developers, especially for consoles, but even for some PCs now, don`t even include options any more because they reckon people don`t want to have to `think` through them.

Some games even give you a white line to everything and explain everything like you`re a small 2 year old because of whiners claiming discovering things for yourself is no `fun`. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I fly for the experience. That means if I shoot down a 109 and return to base, great, but it also means if my engine fails in mid flight, great too. For me, the experience of emulating a WW2 fighter pilot is also the `fun`. Once again, one person`s fun is not another person`s `fun`. There are different meanings to what `fun` is for each person.

I worry about the outcome of SOW with the likes of some of you users.

Codex1971
11-28-2008, 05:05 AM
I would like to have the whole kit in the sim but have it selectable.

So DF servers could select limited options to suit the map / mission, while offline and COOP pilots could fly with the whole Sha-Bang. Re: those who don't want it due to limited time I surely sympathise but if your prepared to fly a COOP mission or offline campaign mission you would have had to have known before hand your time restraints.

Player_43
11-28-2008, 06:13 AM
I want it as real as silicone **** ! Better than reality for a reasonable price even if you know that it's fake.

Blood_Splat
11-28-2008, 06:49 AM
I want it so realistic that when I get my girlfriend pregnant I'll have to marry her before the parents find out.

rnzoli
11-28-2008, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
We're all here to have fun not try to fly broken aircraft. Ermmm... I see a lot of broken aircraft being flown...with smoking engine, jammed flaps, holed wings...what's the difference? Some people in CO-OP missions love the challenge to get them back to the airfield in one piece. In DF, you can just quit-->refly as usual http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Jex_TE
11-30-2008, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:

Yes but having the option, just like now you can chooseto have relative realism would be nice.. I do agree that time is tight sometimes.. and I hate being online for 90 minutes and only getting to fly one or 2 coops ....



But i'd rather play 1 or 2 great coops than 3 or 4 rubbish ones.

Aaron_GT
11-30-2008, 01:04 PM
So DF servers could select limited options to suit the map / mission, while offline and COOP pilots could fly with the whole Sha-Bang. Re: those who don't want it due to limited time I surely sympathise but if your prepared to fly a COOP mission or offline campaign mission you would have had to have known before hand your time restraints.

It would be nice to have the option of quitting a coop and have AI then control your plane such that if real life intrudes the others in the coop can continue.