PDA

View Full Version : Major problems with calibration



HarrisonTX
03-24-2009, 08:27 PM
Hi,
I just bought IL2:1946 today, along with a Logitech Extreme 3d pro. ( i know its a cheapy, but all i could find)

My problem seems to be with calibration.
If im sitting on the runway, as soon as the plane starts to roll, it pulls hard LEFT.
If i start a mission that is already in progress, it pulls left, if i can hold it straight, as soon as i pull back, it barrel rolls hard left.
When the plane is sitting on the ground, the rudder (i dont know the real term) is straight, not turning left or right

The joy stick was sitting still when the game started.
The in game calibration is fine, and the green square is sitting center.
I installed the CD that came with the joystick, and did the calibration, and it is fine also.
I have exited the game 3 times, and restarted my computer.

Any ideas, im dying to play.

Stiletto-
03-24-2009, 08:38 PM
Your are dying to play.. And you are! That is how most of these WWII planes handle with all the torque from their powerful engines.. What you need to do is input some rudder trim to counter-act the aircrafts torque. I forget the keys they are in the option menu, I have mine set to a rotary on my X52. Also there are alot of unmapped keys in that menu you will have to use. trimming the plane up should make things quite a bit easier, but if you change speed and power settings you will have to retrim. Elevator trim is very important too, to keep the nose level.

I'd maybe try some of the more docile aircraft to start out with that dont have as harsh of flight characteristics.. For some reason the Hurricane is coming to mind.. But why dont you try the P-38, it's engines have counter rotating props to wash out the others torque effects.

Also, before Bearcat comes in here and posts this, read the nuggets guide for all your newbie related issues. Should help clear some things.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/9121094645 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645)

HarrisonTX
03-24-2009, 08:57 PM
I thought thats what it may be, i saw that mentioned in the training videos.
So, to test it, i started a mission that was already flying. I killed my engine in mid air with plenty of airspeed, and pulled back slightly to see what happened. I know what a stall is, and the aircraft didnt stall, it barrel rolled wildly to the left. How can the torque from the engine cause that, if the engine is off?

I see what your saying about "trim"
would it really have this much of a dramatic effect?
I mean as soon as the plane starts to roll, it pulls left, even if i kill the throttle to 0, it still pulls hard.

Do i need a freakin pilots license to play this?


BTW, i dont have an expansion pack, i couldnt find any p38's

danjama
03-24-2009, 09:03 PM
can u record this for me? record a track and send it to me

I suggest testing this with a twin engine like the P38

That plane should pull strait up

danjama
03-24-2009, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
BTW, i dont have an expansion pack, i couldnt find any p38's

If you have bought il21946 then P38's are stock

HarrisonTX
03-24-2009, 09:07 PM
i bought
IL-2 Sturmovik 1946
And im just clicking "single mission" and not seeing p38's
But, i did just try it with a jet, and it did the same thing. I started rolling, and had to twist the joy stick slightly to keep it straight.
When i got altitude, it barrel rolled.

What plane do you want me to use to make a vid?

HarrisonTX
03-24-2009, 09:14 PM
btw, On the runway, is your brake set by default?
In keys it reads "brakes - B"
I press b, and it says nothing, so i assume they arnt set. When the aircraft is vearing left, if i take off, it continues to pull in the same manner, so i dont think it is brakes

Stiletto-
03-24-2009, 10:08 PM
Yes B is brakes by default, no little icon will pop up that your brakes are on like when you turn your engines on and it says "ENGINE ON" so yeah I am sure those are working ok and not part of your problem.. Hmmm..

I just loaded up the ME-262 and flew with the keyboard, my joystick was plugged in but I made sure that it had neutral rudder trim. The thing was very easily fly able with the keyboard to keep relatively level, it's hardly rotating at all almost perfectly straight. As you stated, you tried a jet or two and the same problem.. Dunno if you tried the ME-262 but I think they all are pretty docile when it comes to rolling when in level flight..

When you are at the joystick menu screen and you move the joystick around are the movements smooth? Or do they spike? Do you have any other game controllers hooked into your computer like a gamepad or a racing wheel? Anything sitting on the floor or shelf that could be giving inputs into the game?

As a test I would unplug your Logitech so it isnt connected at all.. Load up a quick mission in the Me-262 at 3000 meters high and see if you get the crazy uncontrollable banking as persistant as before. You should hardly have to tap the keys to keep this bird flying level, just put up the throttle to 80 or 90 percent and it should be flying almost by itself.

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
I thought thats what it may be, i saw that mentioned in the training videos.
So, to test it, i started a mission that was already flying. I killed my engine in mid air with plenty of airspeed, and pulled back slightly to see what happened. I know what a stall is, and the aircraft didnt stall, it barrel rolled wildly to the left. How can the torque from the engine cause that, if the engine is off?

I see what your saying about "trim"
would it really have this much of a dramatic effect?
I mean as soon as the plane starts to roll, it pulls left, even if i kill the throttle to 0, it still pulls hard.

Do i need a freakin pilots license to play this?


BTW, i dont have an expansion pack, i couldnt find any p38's

A pilots' license wouldn't hurt, neither would reading some ground school info though most players don't.

As to torque, if the word means all kinds of effects rolled into one then okay, torque.

The prop going around makes a spiral of air around the plane that hits the wings and tail which are offset/twisted slightly
to accommodate that at certain speed, usually cruise speed. This is the biggest part of 'prop torque' I know of though
there are others. On the ground it is the most effect it will be, the slower the plane is going the tighter the spiral.
You kill the engine and the twist to deal with propwash is still there, powered prop plane is not a straight glider.
In fact, below and above the design speed you have to trim opposite ways for propwash, the spiral of air. Just know it
since now you have a sim that actually models that.

The Macchi 202 is a Macchi 200 with more powerful Bf109 engine, they added length to the left wing to counter the wash
on that one, handled poorly it will bite back as was noted in history. Of course the trained pilots did not handle it so
but that didn't stop a lot of gamers who never read the full docs. It's okay, they learned or at least many did.

Something else you've -got- to deal with is "the ball" or in some cases a slip needle (Spitfires at least). Rudder use
is essential and you'll never shoot straight if you fly with slip. In time you won't have to check it very often, like
the speedometer in your car. You'll never make full speed flying in slip and all accelerations will take longer too.
Do you know where that is and what slip is?
Older sims, even IL2 before versions 4.x had auto-rudder to some extent so what didn't use to be important now is.
Believe it, that caught a lot of players napping.

Trim is and always has been crucial to handling and speed. One thing that being a pilot won't prepare you for is the
stick interface but then that's always been true. PC stick is not like the real thing except maybe in FBW planes.
The IL2 system is strength-based, not position-based. You command the pilot arm which has limited strength. Your
pull on your joystick says how hard he is to pull his only you pull far less.
Trim as on a real plane changes the force on the real stick to hold it at one place. On your joystick the center is
no force while on his the no force position may be anywhere depending on trim and flight condition.
So if you are flying along holding your stick off center for some time, use trim to trim that out while you loosen up
on your joystick. In a real plane you hold the control to hold the plane and turn trim until the control is no longer
pressing on your hand or feet (rudder trim which btw some planes like the 109's did not have). With PC hardware it is
not possible except maybe FFB but with short PC joystick throws it's not desirable anyway.

The closer to center you keep your joystick the better IL2 planes fly. One 'remedy' to the default curve of the pitch
axis sliders is to have all the sliders at or near the same value, like all at 100. Done it but since 1946 I run a
straight line from 100 at right and 6 less each step going leftwards (44-100) though sometimes only 3 or 4 less each.
It depends on your hardware, the plane you choose and yourself, you need to experiment with the sliders.

When setting sliders, if you can keep the deadzone at zero or very low. Only a loose stick needs any deadzone and it sucks.
One thing I find beneficial is using FILTER. It keeps stick spiking, digitizer flip-flops, small stick friction judders and
the like from causing control vibrations. Use a LOT, like 40-50%, it smooths your moves and you may see improvement.

If you don't know "the ball" then sing out, okay? You might as well start out well and save yourself time.

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
btw, On the runway, is your brake set by default?
In keys it reads "brakes - B"
I press b, and it says nothing, so i assume they arnt set. When the aircraft is vearing left, if i take off, it continues to pull in the same manner, so i dont think it is brakes

On the runway, get the thing pointed straight, hold the brake and lock the tailwheel.

jamesblonde1979
03-25-2009, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:


Do i need a freakin pilots license to play this?




No, but a basic understanding of the forces act opun an aircraft in flight will help you shorten the learning curve.

IL2 is not an arcade style shoot em up, it's a simulation. The flight models have been programmed to accurately represent the behaviour of their respective aircraft.

Take into account the fact that your stick inputs are translated by this modelling as pilot strenght applied to stick. This means that the slightest movement of your hands on your stick actually represents many pounds of force being applied to the stick of the modelled aircraft.

Try learning by manoevering with just two fingers when airborne, it wont take you long to get a feel for a particular aircraft and you will be able to handle it more confidently.

(and kick some butt)

general_kalle
03-25-2009, 04:26 AM
of course make sure your joystick is calibrated first.

HarrisonTX
03-25-2009, 08:26 AM
Alright, so i loaded a me262 mission, on the runway.
With the joystick sitting away from me, and completely neutral. I started the engines, slowly increasing throttle. As soon as the jet started to move forward, it veered left.
I did it several times.
same with the p-38, which i tried the same thing in mid flight.

Whenever i pull back on the stick, and go into a climb, ill gain about 75 feet (never completely straight up) it will pull left and go into a violent spin that i cannot pull out of, no matter what altitude, or what i press.

Im having the same problem even with just the keys.

Ritter_Cuda
03-25-2009, 08:50 AM
check your stick in the game under hardware. make sure that the green square tracks close to the red square. when you tried the p-38 with keys was the stick connected?

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-25-2009, 09:05 AM
So when you go into windows control panel, then game controllers and go to the test screen for your joystick all is well there? You pull back in the stick and the curser moves in a straight line? Windows game controllers screen should be the ultimate tell of weather it's a hardware problem or if it's a game issue.

HarrisonTX
03-25-2009, 10:45 AM
So, i guess i cut the joystick option out of the mix. I calibibrated it just like Urufu said in windows control panel, still problems.
I unplugged it (USB) from the computer, and still the same problem.
Where does it save videos.
Im in mid flight, press ESC, then hit start recording, save the file as something, hit "save" Record my little bit, then i hit "stop recording" and i cant find it in my Ubisoft folder.

I think that would would be the best way to show whats happening

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 11:00 AM
From what you wrote in post #1 there may be nothing wrong with your game or stick.

In game, in the Controls section with the sliders is a box on the left.
It has red and green squares inside (if one is on top of the other, you won't see both) that when the stick is centered
should be in the box center. One square shows the position the game thinks your joystick is and the other shows where
after your sliders, deadzone and filter add in it is translated to. What happens there?

Again, engine off, the plane that was built adjusted for flying straight with torque effects will not without.

Oh BTW, tracks go in the records folder.

Heliopause
03-25-2009, 11:24 AM
Some info on my behalf:
You are not starting your take-off with full power (110%) straight away? (I hope)

Best way is to begin with say, 50% and build up the power as the speed builds up. Then it only needs moderate rudder correction to keep it straight.

When you fly and pull the stick to much you can start a stall. Easy does it. Keep the movement calm and see how that goes....(if you aren't already that is).

Disconnect joystick - restart PC - insert joystick.

Hope any of this will help, cheers!

HarrisonTX
03-25-2009, 11:41 AM
This is getting frustrating.
Heli-no matter how i take off the plane will steer itself.
if i go from 0% throttle, to 20%, just enough to get the aircraft rolling, it will IMMEDIATLY veer left or right.

I have made several videos, and viewed them in the game by clicking "play track" and finding my saved videos.
If i do to my C: drive, and open the UBIsoft/IL21946, my videos are not in the "records" folder. All the other ones, that came with the game are there, but the ones i made are now (even if i refresh)

M-Gunz- I know the box you speak of. When i move my joy stick, a red square follows the green one, when sitting still, the red one is covered. It all looks well

rnzoli
03-25-2009, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
When the plane is sitting on the ground,
Type? Good to know.

The in game calibration is fine, and the green square is sitting center.
Which green/red pair? This is important detail.


Any ideas, im dying to play.
Perfect recipe to die playing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Ease up, and try something simple:
unplug your joystick, start IL-2 and start a Quick Mission Builder e.g., with the default A-20 aircraft, then come back and report: did your plane roll anywhere?

Aviar
03-25-2009, 12:13 PM
HarrisonTX,

I really don't mean to offend you, but it looks to me like you are new to flight sims and simply don't understand how these planes are expected to handle.

For instance, you state..."if i go from 0% throttle, to 20%, just enough to get the aircraft rolling, it will IMMEDIATLY veer left or right."

This is perfectly normal for many of the planes in IL-2. (Have you tried to lock your tailwheel for any of these takeoffs? This is a must for many planes with strong torque...the Tempest, for instance. Most planes will require rudder input to roll straight on takeoff. I don't see anything in your posts that mention you using rudder...except for maybe this one--> "I started rolling, and had to twist the joy stick slightly to keep it straight.)

Also, it would really help if you gave more information. The exact mission and the exact plane you are flying is very important. For instance, some missions have extreme weather and even veteran players have a difficult time taking off in certain conditions.

With all that being said, it can sometimes be frustrating solving problems through the forums, especially if you are brand new to IL-2. The ideal situation is to actually talk to someone who can help you.

So, if you have or can set up a TeamSpeak account (it's free and simple), I would be happy to get on with you and hopefully resolve your issues. You can send me PM if you are interested. Good luck.

PS-Just a couple of items you may be interested in:

-The brake button needs to remain PRESSED if you want the brakes to be activated (just like the brakes on a car). Just pressing the button once and releasing it won't do anything but activate your brakes for one second...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-You wanted to fly a P-38 but said you couldn't find any P-38 missions. Are you aware that all the flyable planes can be very easily flown through the Quick Mission Builder? It's right there on your Main Menu.

Aviar

danjama
03-25-2009, 12:31 PM
Hey listen to this

I notice both the planes you tried are TWIN ENGINE and you are throttling strait to 100 then banking uncontrollably left. I think you are only throttling one engine.

Have you mapped both of the engines? You control the engine throttle seperately!!! So, it sounds to me like your only controlling the throttle to the left engine. Go into controls and select a key to SELECT ALL ENGINES then press this key and you will apply all throttle changes to both engines.

This is how it sounds to me anyway. Just select both engines together and give equal throttle.

Finally as Aviar said, use the quick mission builder for quick airstarts to sort this quicker.

Aviar
03-25-2009, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
I thought thats what it may be, i saw that mentioned in the training videos.
So, to test it, i started a mission that was already flying. I killed my engine in mid air with plenty of airspeed, and pulled back slightly to see what happened. I know what a stall is, and the aircraft didnt stall, it barrel rolled wildly to the left. How can the torque from the engine cause that, if the engine is off?

This is simply a limitation of the IL-2 FM. All IL-2 planes will roll to one side or the other when they stall. The IL-2 stall model is not realistically accurate.

Aviar

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Aviar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
I thought thats what it may be, i saw that mentioned in the training videos.
So, to test it, i started a mission that was already flying. I killed my engine in mid air with plenty of airspeed, and pulled back slightly to see what happened. I know what a stall is, and the aircraft didnt stall, it barrel rolled wildly to the left. How can the torque from the engine cause that, if the engine is off?

This is simply a limitation of the IL-2 FM. All IL-2 planes will roll to one side or the other when they stall. The IL-2 stall model is not realistically accurate.

Aviar </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That used to be true before 4.01. You can stall and hold it straight provided you don't let speed drop too far since.
It does require doing the rudder dance though, always rudder away from the wing that starts to drop.
There was a very good thread about that trend to always spin back around 3.2-3.4, it may have been a point of pride that
caused Maddox Games (1C is the Russian publisher, not the devs) to adapt the SOW FM to the IL2 engine.

And yeah, you can hold a stall level since FM 4.01 provided you don't push it too far.

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
This is getting frustrating.
Heli-no matter how i take off the plane will steer itself.
if i go from 0% throttle, to 20%, just enough to get the aircraft rolling, it will IMMEDIATLY veer left or right.

I have made several videos, and viewed them in the game by clicking "play track" and finding my saved videos.
If i do to my C: drive, and open the UBIsoft/IL21946, my videos are not in the "records" folder. All the other ones, that came with the game are there, but the ones i made are now (even if i refresh)

M-Gunz- I know the box you speak of. When i move my joy stick, a red square follows the green one, when sitting still, the red one is covered. It all looks well

Alright, one step at a time and we'll all troubleshoot this. Your joystick at center, the colored squares are at center?

Also let's get you into one plane, you pick or something easy like a Hurricane or P-40 or Yak 7B perhaps?
The high power to weight planes or just high power jobs are worse for torque effects.

HarrisonTX
03-25-2009, 02:46 PM
Well, Aviar, i guess your right. I turned off some of the options once i found them, and it seems to be quiet a bit more flyable. I still find i very difficult to put down another aircraft, but thats not the games fault.
I do still have to steer with the rudder on the ground to get off, but nothing like i was.

I guess the game is far more realistic than i had anticipated. I fell into love with flying games when i played Jane's "WWII fighters"
Very fun, yet nothing where this one is.

I hate that i wasted peoples time.
Sorry

foxfire1941
03-25-2009, 02:47 PM
I think his problem is he needs to go to the HOTAS section of the controls and assign the joystick movements to the proper axis and joystick ID's.

The HOTAS section at the bottom of the controls section. For elevator move the joystick forward and backward, for ailerons move the joystick side to side, for rudder twist the stick left and right. Once this is done correctly you will be able to fly.

(ps. You can also assign brakes and trim to the rotaries there if your joystick has rotary wheels.)
-Rudo

rnzoli
03-25-2009, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
I hate that i wasted peoples time.
Sorry No worries, good that you see the way out now.

Ritter_Cuda
03-25-2009, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:

I do still have to steer with the rudder on the ground to get off, but nothing like i was.

I hate that i wasted peoples time.
Sorry
the only way to steer on the ground is with the rudder. just like in real life.

Aviar
03-25-2009, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
Well, Aviar, i guess your right. I turned off some of the options once i found them, and it seems to be quiet a bit more flyable. I still find i very difficult to put down another aircraft, but thats not the games fault.
I do still have to steer with the rudder on the ground to get off, but nothing like i was.

I guess the game is far more realistic than i had anticipated. I fell into love with flying games when i played Jane's "WWII fighters"
Very fun, yet nothing where this one is.

I hate that i wasted peoples time.
Sorry

No problem. Il-2 can be quite hard to master, initially.

Try this link to get started:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/9121094645 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645)

Aviar

HarrisonTX
03-25-2009, 03:43 PM
how come the b-17s outrun my p51?
Also, final question, what kinda plane is in stiletto's sig?

Aviar
03-25-2009, 03:48 PM
If you can't catch a B-17 with a P-51, you're in much worse shape than I thought... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Aviar

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
Well, Aviar, i guess your right. I turned off some of the options once i found them, and it seems to be quiet a bit more flyable. I still find i very difficult to put down another aircraft, but thats not the games fault.
I do still have to steer with the rudder on the ground to get off, but nothing like i was.

I guess the game is far more realistic than i had anticipated. I fell into love with flying games when i played Jane's "WWII fighters"
Very fun, yet nothing where this one is.

I hate that i wasted peoples time.
Sorry

You didn't and at some point should turn the torque back on and find out what was wrong. Were you only flying 2 engine planes
and only running the right engine is a dead simple fix, assign a key to "select all engines", hit it and then start up, badabing!
If you didn't lock the tailwheel, it's like a shopping cart with a bad wheel, hit the key, badaboom!

One thing to learn is making simple missions with the full mission builder. You can put them in any folder, open one up and
change the plane(s) takes seconds, save as another mission with the plane name in it and you have your own training/practice
setups. If it's just your plane to get familiar with, take up and fly around then one waypoint on the airstrip (pick a
concrete strip, Crimea map has good ones easy to find from air) and one a ways out and you're done.
If you don't care to start with takeoff then the quick mission builder is even quicker the first time, but saved full missions
are quicker once they're done.

Lowengrin has a great campaign/mission maker for free. (http://www.lowengrin.com)

You don't need to get to everything at once but habits picked up with things switched off end up needing to be un-learned.

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by HarrisonTX:
how come the b-17s outrun my p51?
Also, final question, what kinda plane is in stiletto's sig?

You might have left your flaps or gear down or be running with a ton of slip.
In most plane you also need to learn what heights to change the supercharger gear and maybe the fuel mixture if Complex Engine
Management is on or the engine runs like c-r-a-p as it would for real.

And BTW, this-all is still far less than the real pilots had to learn. Way far less. There's a site called Zeno's Warbirds
where you can get the real training movies and man oh man it's way beyond IL2 all the stuff they had to do!

Seriously, do you know what that smiley-curved tube on the instrument panel with the black ball in it is for?
If you want to fly fast or shoot straight then you need to know "the ball".

Here's the Wiki on it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_indicator)

If you are in slip or skid, your plane is not pointing where it's going. There's times that will throw a pursuer's aim off but
otherwise it only hurts you.

ElAurens
03-25-2009, 04:27 PM
You might also try flying some of the Japanese aircraft at first. The Ki 43 I or the A6M2 Zero.

These are relatively low powered and easy to fly, and will help you gain a basic understanding of flying in this simulation.

This sim takes time, but it is very rewarding when you start to "get it".

Stiletto-
03-25-2009, 05:03 PM
The plane in my sig is a the F2A-2 Brewster Buffalo.. While one of the best handling American planes with lower power and fairly docile flight characteristics, I wouldn't recommend trying it just yet. It requires more pilot work as far as trimming the aircraft to fly level, besides rudder and elevator it really requires the ailerons trimmed so it doesn't start a slow roll where most other aircraft this is not such an issue.

As to the 2 engine thing, I am pretty sure he was controlling the power to both engines, anytime you load up in a quick mission builder mission and start mid-air, both engines are automatically selected.

I used to play janes WWII Fighters myself, it was pretty good for the time and the graphics have aged pretty well, there are some things in the game that still look better than IL-2, unforunately the flight model is not one of them.

Hopefully you will get used to the more difficult handling of these planes and start turning more of the realism options back on... Once you figure out the controls to trim your aircraft and read corresponding flight gauges it should start getting easier and more fun.

But yeah, definately pick one of the more docile aircraft and stick with it for awhile until you get it down pat.

Fehler
03-25-2009, 06:09 PM
Make sure your RUDDER inputs are correct.

I dont think your problem is the stick.

I think it is rudder.

What exactly are you using for rudder input?

And, if you are unable to catch a B17 in a P51, you probably have an extreme amount of side slip. (rudder input to far left or right) which would also account for your problems on the ground....

M_Gunz
03-25-2009, 06:23 PM
Logitech 3D is a "twisty stick". Rudder is the stick twist. I had one once.