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J_Weaver
01-24-2005, 11:00 PM
I was doing some reading this evening about various battles in the PTO. After reading about the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot I realized that their is no way to recreate some of these battles in PF on a realistic scale. Some battles involved hundreds of aircraft in the air at once. I'm not sure what the point of this post is other than realization of how many aircraft were involved made me stop and say WOW. And made me think about how we as sim pilots can't even begin to imagine what it would have been like to have been there. I don't know why but something about what I read struck a cord in me tonight.

This also lead me to wonder. How many aircraft can PF handle. And more important how many aircraft can most people's rigs handle?

LEXX_Luthor
01-24-2005, 11:06 PM
AthalonXP 1700+
256MB 133Mhz SDRAM
I could do QMB with 32 aircraft and 2x time speed with passable framerate (that would be about 64 aircraft in combat shooting at normal time speed)


Semperon 3100+ (basically, Athalon64 2800+)
1GB DDR400
I can now do QMB with 32 aircraft and 4x time speed with passable framerate (that would be about 128 aircraft in combat shooting at normal time speed).

Note that in a large "mission" simulating battlefield, not all aircraft need to be in combat at one time, some flights can be coming or going. However, a battlefield will also require ground or ship units...ship units are fps intensive.

JG54_Arnie
01-25-2005, 02:29 AM
hmm, I dont think you can reason about it like that Luthor, that would be a little bit too simple. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Beirut
01-25-2005, 04:01 AM
I watched a bit of real Pacific footage the other day. I didn't see that many planes in the air at once, but the amount of flak burts was incredible. Thousands of black puffs hanging in the air while the kamikazes were coming in. Quite a bit of water spray too.

That is almost achievable in PF.

cueceleches
01-25-2005, 04:07 AM
It is achievable, from my point of view. I´m still impressed by the fire power of a carrier group whenever it is attacked. (RN campaign at Iwo Jima). Tracers everywhere, every caliber, black puffs, white puffs, japanese planes trying to bomb or drop torpedoes on the carrier, planes shot down, etc...Wow, it just reminds me of The Battle of Midway movie!

pacettid
01-25-2005, 05:02 AM
They key to "victory at sea" when looking at this simulation is to capture the flavor of combat in the Pacific.

I don't care how many planes were actually involved in a particular engagement, as I can only see what is within a given distance of my aircraft anyway.

As it stands now, the simulation requires too much CPU power to even come close to acurately representing the AAA present over the battlefield at Okinawa, so I try to create missions that have the correct plane sets, the best terrain the sim has to offer, and go as far as possible to capture the flavor of the air battles in the theater represented, without overtaxing average computers and making it an accurate fps "slideshow".

J_Weaver
01-25-2005, 08:52 AM
You guys are right...I just wanted your thoughts on the subject. I was amazed during my USMC Iwo Jima campaign wehn I was scrambled to find 10+ Betties and 20+ Zeros heading my way. The only problem is that my poor rig can't handle all those aircraft.

I've found my rig can handle about 24 aircraft, but when I add ships or flak things start to slow down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-25-2005, 10:13 AM
So you never bothered to post your computer specs, now we see why http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

-------

Yes Arnie, QMB with accelerated time speed gives reliable and reproduceable ("whatable?") measures of sim performance for comparing cpu power, although a hand crafted test mission with hundreds of aircraft and no accelerated time speed may (or may not) be even more reliable (yes, not so simple http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). The problem there is differences in handcraft between different hands.

VW-IceFire
01-25-2005, 10:24 AM
As a mission designer, its definately something to be conscious of. I've tried to be smart building online and offline missions in a way such as you get the impression that larger things are going on but at the same time they really aren't and just enough to give you that feel.

Its illusion and its how you build for video games. We're still in a game, even if its attempting to be very realistic, and you do what you can to make things fun, interesting, and in our case, historically accurate as possible. But its a balancing act.

triggerhappyfin
01-25-2005, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J_Weaver:
I was doing some reading this evening about various battles in the PTO. After reading about the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot I realized that their is no way to recreate some of these battles in PF on a realistic scale. <span class="ev_code_RED">Some battles involved hundreds of aircraft in the air at once.</span> I'm not sure what the point of this post is other than realization of how many aircraft were involved made me stop and say WOW. And made me think about how we as sim pilots can't even begin to imagine what it would have been like to have been there. I don't know why but something about what I read struck a cord in me tonight.

This also lead me to wonder. How many aircraft can PF handle. And more important how many aircraft can most people's rigs handle? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


They had no loss of FPS neither.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Bearcat99
01-25-2005, 03:08 PM
Well consider some of those 100 mile long bobmber streams over Europe in the latter half of te war..... No way to do that right in this sim and not bring just about any PC to its knees.

dcunning30
01-25-2005, 03:13 PM
hundereds of aircraft?

one name: microprose european airwar!

it's an old game. however, it's still on my hard drive. immersion is excellent. and in that game, you truly can have as many as 128 aircraft in the same battlespace with no framerate hits. also, in spite of it's age, the graphics aren't that bad.

i built a mission where i would fly a spitfire xiv and would go against a hundered ju-88's and my challenge was to see how long i lasted.

J_Weaver
01-25-2005, 04:03 PM
One more thing. I don't want you guys to think I'm complaining. Its just an observation that struck me last night. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif My rigs not the greatest but I can run excellent mode without too many problems.

_54th_Target
01-25-2005, 04:15 PM
J_Weaver,
When building missions, I have found that its not so much the number of aircraft (obviously too many can cause FPS drop) but the amount of Flak (and you proximity to the flak) that seems to be a bigger problem. After a point when the flak increases, every thing goes into slideshow mode.
As a side note, it is hard to imagine the 1000 bomber raids over Europe. In addition to the bombers, there were also the large numbers of fighters on each side.

_54th_Target