PDA

View Full Version : Please make the game backward compatible for online, or the community will be split



Tipo_Man
04-07-2006, 09:05 AM
Well, considering the appraoching addons, I'm afraid that the online servers will become less populated.

Let me explain my point.
The upcoming Pe-2 addon looks tempting to me, but I'm very sceptic about the percentage of people who will buy it.
Let's face it:
A great majority of players is not interested and never flies bombers.
A great majority of players is not interested and never flies russian planes.
Don't forget the fact that we received several other bombers absolutely for free...

Now combine these , and you'll see that probably a lot of people will stick to the current 4.04.
Not to mention the other 2 addons which will be playable only if you have installed previous ones....

Probable Pe-2 and the following addons will sell well in Russia, but I'm very sceptical about the rest of the world.
And since the russian community is maybe 40% or more of all online players, they will certainly miss us.

Very soon, when trying to connect we will see: "Connection refused, server uses diffrent version of the game 4.06".

Yet it has been noted, that IL-2 is not registry "connected", so you can have multiple copies of the game on your PC.
So you can have 4.04 copy(the current one). 4.05(Pe-2), 4.06(year-46), 4.07(IL-10)
But it will be quite of a mess to keep four copies of the same game on your HDD, copy and rename them just to be able to connect to specific server.

This question is already being asked on russian forums from peaple who have installed Pe-2 addon but want to play online.
The solution seems to be to exchange only FILES.SFS file, but this has not been officially confirmed.

So can you please incorporate this into the code.
If you are running a higher version of the game, 4.06 for example, and want to join a 4.04 server, make the game switch to 4.04.

It has been noted several times that the biggest problem of luring new players into the community is the inability for them to find all the needed versions and addons to be able to play online.
We've just received the long awaited ALL-IN-ONE DVD, and are awaiting the fresh blood,

But it looks like these addon approach will spoil the effort.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

WWMaxGunz
04-07-2006, 09:17 AM
Will addons include changes to FM engine or changes to planes already present?

jurinko
04-07-2006, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Will addons include changes to FM engine or changes to planes already present?

Yes.

Tipo-man, if you realize that in Pe-2 addon you are paying also for 3.0X+4.0X free patches, prepared by 1C often despite UBI forcing them to concentrate on BoB solely, you are funny saying "I am not buying some russian bomber".

I am working on the 3rd party map almost 1 1/2 year, all my spare free time, for free.

JG53Frankyboy
04-07-2006, 09:44 AM
wasnt there the same "fear" before PF release ?!?!?!

Chuck_Older
04-07-2006, 10:01 AM
Please read carefully-

every few months there is another 'community split' panic. It will not happen. The sky will not fall, and the Il2 community will not have a great schism. That is all, have a nice day

Tipo_Man
04-07-2006, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Please read carefully-

every few months there is another 'community split' panic. It will not happen. The sky will not fall, and the Il2 community will not have a great schism. That is all, have a nice day

How do you know that this already hasn't happened? Let me explain it simpler for you:
There is a kid John,13, who is attracted by aircrafts. His mother is buying him IL-2 in a buy-and-go-to-play-online-DVD for his birthdaty.
Now we have a chance to attract this John to the community. He receives his DVD, installs the game and starts playing online

What will happen actually will be.
He receives his DVD, installs the game and tries to connect. The connection is refused. If he does not give up at this moment, he will certainly forget about this game when he learns that he has to buy THREE more add-ons just to be able to play.


Jurinko, are you going to call him, or his mother personally to explain that:"in Pe-2 addon you are paying also for 3.0X+4.0X free patches"?


Don't you think that the mere fact that there are so limited sales of PF in the US and so few players online means that maybe a lot of possible players have been lost?

And now, when the solution is here, namely the
buy-and-go-to-play-online-DVD, everything will be spoiled with these next addons...

crazyivan1970
04-07-2006, 10:54 AM
Tipo,
I would be conserned if Pe-2 and other addon were release in russia only, as was originally planned. Now, since it will be release world wide, why are we talking about split? You example about kid John is a bit off too mate, sorry. We chose hobbies we can afford. If we cant, we stay away. That`s life. Not everyone drives porsche you know.

Troll2k
04-07-2006, 10:59 AM
The same thing exists now.If a guy buys PF and gets online he finds there are hardly any players for the standalone and to play where all the people are he needs to buy Forgotten Battles and the Ace Expension Pack.Or from the other end someone get Forgotten Battles and gets online only to find he needs AEP and PF to play with the most people.

Tipo_Man
04-07-2006, 11:21 AM
Ivan,
Maybe my topic name is not the most appropriate one.

IL-2 has always had the reputation of being "for maniacs" only. You have to know you want to get it , then go to buy it, then spend some time to make it run.
Just compare the sales of CFS and IL-2 in the US for example... I simply can't imagine how people can buy an inferior product at a higher price!
I think it's not Oleg's fault for such bad marketing of such an exceptional product.


We are a closed community, sorry to say it, but I don't think a lot of new players are joining us lately. The number of online players is constant fom several years.

Now with this buy-and-go-to-play-online-DVD we have the chance to get some fresh blood. If it didn't existed, I wouldn't complain...

WWSensei
04-07-2006, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Troll2k:
The same thing exists now.If a guy buys PF and gets online he finds there are hardly any players for the standalone and to play where all the people are he needs to buy Forgotten Battles and the Ace Expension Pack.Or from the other end someone get Forgotten Battles and gets online only to find he needs AEP and PF to play with the most people.

I think it's a lot of hand wringing for nothing. The serious flight simmers will be aware of the various needs and buy them. The casual gamer won't and will lose interest. Just like the most likely would have lost interest when the steep learning curve is encountered.

Flight sim community has pretty much always been this way.

Sturm_Williger
04-07-2006, 11:43 AM
Besides, when the addons were going to be Russian-only, everyone complained. Polls were made, petitions were launched.

Now all of a sudden it's "I don't fly bombers" ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I'm sure 99.99% of current flyers will be getting all 3 addons ( 'cos we want the new free maps that come after, right ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

We're damn lucky with all we get. What's 60 between friends ?

DuxCorvan
04-07-2006, 12:32 PM
I just hope I can buy them online, here in Spain is hard to find flight simulation games -they are even more 'niche market' than in other countries- not to mention 1C games.

crazyivan1970
04-07-2006, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Tipo_Man:
Ivan,
Maybe my topic name is not the most appropriate one.

IL-2 has always had the reputation of being "for maniacs" only. You have to know you want to get it , then go to buy it, then spend some time to make it run.
Just compare the sales of CFS and IL-2 in the US for example... I simply can't imagine how people can buy an inferior product at a higher price!
I think it's not Oleg's fault for such bad marketing of such an exceptional product.



I might be not up to date on this, but CFS3 did not sell well. And even with what they sold, there was a great return rate. At least that is information i have. Fact is, they went from 44.99 to 34.99 and then even lower in the matter of couple of months.



We are a closed community, sorry to say it, but I don't think a lot of new players are joining us lately. The number of online players is constant fom several years.


There are many aspects in IL2 series that keep people away, starting from hardware requirments to specifics of simulation itself. The reality is, it is truly a small market.



Now with this buy-and-go-to-play-online-DVD we have the chance to get some fresh blood. If it didn't existed, I wouldn't complain...

The reality is, purpose of that DVD is not populating online servers. It was release for that fresh blood in the first place. And if that fresh blood is interested enough in it, and would like to join online community....i dont see big hesitation for them of spending another 20 dollars if they are really got into it.

KG26_Oranje
04-07-2006, 01:07 PM
Man we have ask for many years for the Pe2 and Ju88 and al the ahter bombers.
And now u saying nobady is flying tham????

U most be blind than , sorry if i`m rude.
And for CFS, MS have sayd after the disapoindet sales that there will be never again a MS CFS 4 coming.
And to play CFS3 online u need to patch it and puht a lot of hard work in it to make it playable including a lot of 3e party stuff.

Look around on HL bro and play some coops wiht the us , than u notice that there are many ho like to fly bombers and some only bombers.

S!

Tipo_Man
04-07-2006, 01:47 PM
KG26_Oranje
Who are "we"?! The ones who post here? well they are less than 10% of the online players.

I DO like Pe-2, read carefully. I WILL BUY IT !
But that won't be enough....
The most BLINDED people are these who post here like:
"we will buy it, Oleg has done so much for us, the others are noobs".
Well I also want to support Oleg, and I like to have more sims from him.
But in order for him to create games, he needs people to buy them.
The ones who post here are maybe 1% of the matket he needs in order to be able to pay salaries to his programmers.
He can not afford to work for you "the special ones" only, or he will have to charge you $2000 for an addon....


And Ivan,
If online play was not so important for "fresh blood", they could do with PF only. It's a single product, just like the DVD.

DuxCorvan
04-07-2006, 01:54 PM
Anyway, I don't think the team can make it backward compatible, even if they wanted to.

I don't think the original program structure allows that. They had to remake everything from scratch, and they simply don't have time nor motivation -and they'd need A LOT of time and motivation, believe me.

If they could, they would have done so in the past.

crazyivan1970
04-07-2006, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Tipo_Man:
And Ivan,
If online play was not so important for "fresh blood", they could do with PF only. It's a single product, just like the DVD.

See, you not really aware of the whole story. There were many people who wanted the complete series and they dont play online. But, partially you are right, some with PF only were coming to HL and could not find any servers. As many conversations i`v seen at HL chat, after they were told about remaining parts of IL-2 series they were ready to buy without hesitation. But due to lack of FB and AEP on the shelfs, they could not.

The reality is, you cannot make this sim backwards compatible without major changes. Nobody will do it. To be honest with you, i am not aware of games that backwards compatible. Any examples of those?

PF_Coastie
04-07-2006, 03:11 PM
Guys, its a non issue anyway. The people that buy it will likely know that not everyone will buy it. I for one will buy it and all add-ons available.

However, Before I install any add-ons, I will copy my entire IL2FB+AEP+PF folder and name it (2). Then I will add all add-ons to that copy. It will play just fine on any server in HL. All you have to do is point HL to the version you want to play.

I am sure there are some people good with Batch files that can make one up for each version to switch HL with a click of the mouse.

There will be no problems, trust me!

KG26_Oranje
04-07-2006, 03:16 PM
Time wil tell , Tipo-man.

My opinion is that if u make a Combat flight SIMULATION , than u try to make it all flyable/playable.
That means , Fighters , Bombers , transports , etc etc.
After al its a Simulation of the past.
Buth thats my opinion.

And the We part is many online and offline players.
Look on HL or in the forums , and thats only the GB/US forums.
To many time`s i see the Question "How to use bombside or how cane i enter the Bombside", that most give u a qleu how many online/offline players like to fly wiht a bomber, dive bomber or ground atack aircraft.
Its not the biggest groop buht still there are lots off bomber fans buht not many flyable bombers.

S!

WWMaxGunz
04-07-2006, 05:20 PM
It is not like the servers are special commercial grade items. Anyone can run a server.
So if there is lots of Little Johnnies with their presents and no addons then there will
also be servers set up to run them online even if it is them and their loving parents to
set them up. Broadband is too prevalent for it to not happen.

One thing that UBI should be doing is to include instructions where to go online to find
out how and maybe set up a seperate board for Server Operators with HOWTO stickies. Just
because It Would Be Good For Business To Not Ignore Such Customers. Is anyone from UBI
reading? Then they can put such a message on the cover, Online Help for Online Play or
something reassuring like that.

So there may be more than one or no more FM tunings, good news.

VW-IceFire
04-07-2006, 06:09 PM
A great majority of players is not interested and never flies bombers.
A great majority of players is not interested and never flies russian planes.
Don't forget the fact that we received several other bombers absolutely for free...
You want to know what? (and this is not directed at you) Boo...hoo. These are the same people who refused to buy Pacific Fighters because the "Pacific didn't interest them" and then wondered why they didn't get any more patches. Either pay for the addons so you can continue playing online or let it be. Yes we got lots of free stuff which is yet another positive reason (not a negative) to pay a bit for some new stuff. If we want this genre to survive...at some point we have to pay the guys who make it.

strewth
04-07-2006, 07:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Jaws2002
04-07-2006, 08:13 PM
All I know is that I'll get the Il-10 addon. About the other two I'm not sure yet.


They could add a corect FW-190 forward view and lot of guys will buy them ASAP. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

JG53Frankyboy
04-07-2006, 08:54 PM
well, you will not be able to run the IL10 adon without the Pe adon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

crazyivan1970
04-07-2006, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
well, you will not be able to run the IL10 adon without the Pe adon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bingo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WTE_Galway
04-08-2006, 12:21 AM
sorry to deflate the bubble of anyone that thinks the online community is that important in the big scheme of things regarding product development

but the last figures I saw indicated that only 5% of IL2 users ever go online .. ever

this forum may give you the opposite impression but the vast majority of offline players do not come here regularly because hey guess what .. they are not online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slipBall
04-08-2006, 02:25 AM
I would love to see the Military Channel do a half hour show on flight combat sim's. They have used short flight clip's in some of their documentories. The visual's would certainly spark a interest to many arm chair polot's, who might then get into this addiction

Brain32
04-08-2006, 04:19 AM
I don't fly bombers(JABO only), I transfered myself to western front few months ago, also I don't have much interest in Pacific theater(some goofing around in offline campaign is the most what I did), guess what I plan to buy all add-ons and I know they will be hard to get here, I still don't know how will I get complete edition DVD, (maybe contacting local mafia boss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif).
So esentially I think we will not loose people. Now will we get some n00bs to shot down, I think we will, nobody comes home installs IL2 and goes online immidiatley, you first have to fool around offline, here is the important thing, you are either a complete IL2 nut after that and will do anything to get more and join the fun with others, or you don't like it and wouldn't stay anyway. Just my 2c.
Also theese add-ons are not only plane-add ons, they are complete game updates(new FM,DM) also with this content parts of other theaters are coming(map's are very important to me, also there will be planes from other theaters aswell). Also with that you get atleast one free add-on, just look at Jurinko's Slovakia map http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif I just think there are plenty reasons for present and future IL2 maniacs get all that will be made ASAP.
Ok that's 4c now...

VW-IceFire
04-08-2006, 07:36 AM
Honestly...just the fact that we'll be able to fly new planes like the IL-10 and the Pe-2 makes the whole series all the more intersting. Online scenarios with the Pe-2 sound great! Mosquito of the east! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Kiev and Manchuria maps sounds great...as does access later in a free patch the Norway, Italy Dogfight, Slovakia, and whatever else is in the pipeline sounds great. For Japanese plane lovers the J2M5 and the N1K-2J...superb. There is alot to like here for me...I'll be getting them all. No reason not to. I hope everyone else does as well...at least for online play.

I love the content...I know the game development is essentially over but the content keeps me going.

WWMaxGunz
04-08-2006, 10:20 AM
Extra content will do as it has for say, EAW. I'm hoping for future sims to have more addons
but any and all to be optional with no changes to the game engine. If the planes plug in at
load time then you can play on any server that's using planes and/or maps you already have.

It would allow much more flexibility to addons. It would allow more $ per addon. I would
allow players to buy and use addons at their own pace SECURE knowing what they have will
not become useless and what they buy will be worth it. Eventually I can see that most of
us will have them all anyway.

Such an 'environment' would make for safe business and allow Maddox Games to license out
addon content to commercial 3rd parties or to expand less critical parts of the company.

I'm hoping for the same for the upcoming WWI sim. There are many, many planes and maps
more than can be done by a limited group in a long time but there are also many small
companies that have made extra content for another sim that with proper relationship to
Maddox Games (and Gennadich) this could be worked out.

ElAurens
04-08-2006, 03:31 PM
This whole topic is spurious.

Just look at the number of US flyers who have gone out of their way to purchase the combined DVD. Something that was not even really necessary.

Online flyers will buy all the add-ons. We always have, we always will.

Move along.

Nothing more to see here.

BM357_TinMan
04-09-2006, 05:14 PM
I myself have wondered WTH are they releasing (FINALLY) a DVD with everything so that it is just plug and play, then afterward, releasing two or three more addons.

I'm sorry guys, but this, to me, is kind of "putting the cart ahead of the horse". I think that tipo has the straight of it. The purpose, I thought, of releasing a end all be all DVD was to make the game, at the very least, more "new user" friendly. Now, with these new add ons not included in the DVD coming out, it DOES infact negate some of the aim of the DVD.

VW-IceFire
04-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
I myself have wondered WTH are they releasing (FINALLY) a DVD with everything so that it is just plug and play, then afterward, releasing two or three more addons.

I'm sorry guys, but this, to me, is kind of "putting the cart ahead of the horse". I think that tipo has the straight of it. The purpose, I thought, of releasing a end all be all DVD was to make the game, at the very least, more "new user" friendly. Now, with these new add ons not included in the DVD coming out, it DOES infact negate some of the aim of the DVD.
There is supposed to be a Platinum pack that was proposed that would be sold at a later date with absolutely everything. Not sure if that will happen or not...

BM357_TinMan
04-09-2006, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
There is supposed to be a Platinum pack that was proposed that would be sold at a later date with absolutely everything. Not sure if that will happen or not...

Now THAT would be awesome

by the by, I DO intend to buy every one of these addons that are made available to me. Not because I have any interest in Russian (Soviet) planes, or even for on-line compatablity (as right now, I am so involved in school work I really can't play anyway), but so that I can help 1cMaddox continue developing and add resources for BoB.

AKA_TAGERT
04-09-2006, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
This whole topic is spurious.

Just look at the number of US flyers who have gone out of their way to purchase the combined DVD. Something that was not even really necessary.

Online flyers will buy all the add-ons. We always have, we always will.

Move along.

Nothing more to see here. Exactally.. backeards compatible would be the least of my wories if I was oleg

GR142-Pipper
04-10-2006, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Extra content will do as it has for say, EAW. I'm hoping for future sims to have more addons
but any and all to be optional with no changes to the game engine. If the planes plug in at
load time then you can play on any server that's using planes and/or maps you already have. This is the correct approach. If you own the planes, you get to fly what you have and no more but aren't barred from joining a server.

The most discouraging thing that can occur is for an individual to purchase this game (or receive it as a gift) and not be able to play it on-line. The approach outlined above would side-step that and allow the new flyer to immediately join the community. This is not only how to grow the customer base but it's the only practical way to simplify the patch/add-on matter. It also enables a "pay as you go" strategy to be likewise easily implemented. It's amazing that this approach isn't adopted because its many benefits are obvious.

GR142-Pipper

HeinzBar
04-10-2006, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Not everyone drives porsche you know.

S! Ivan,
I'm still working on getting mine. Just when I think I've got enough cash to buy that 1967 911S, some weiner out bids me. Cut me some slack http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Not all of us can be uber community mod like yourself, while being paid the big bucks by UBI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HB

BTW Ivan,
Is the complete DVD going to be released in the USA via retail stores like Best Buy/Comp USA?

crazyivan1970
04-10-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by HeinzBar:
BTW Ivan,
Is the complete DVD going to be released in the USA via retail stores like Best Buy/Comp USA?

Doesnt look like it HB. Unless UBI is planning something.

Oleg_Maddox
04-11-2006, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Anyway, I don't think the team can make it backward compatible, even if they wanted to.

I don't think the original program structure allows that. They had to remake everything from scratch, and they simply don't have time nor motivation -and they'd need A LOT of time and motivation, believe me.

If they could, they would have done so in the past.

Very correct.

I would also add to all other posts...
If we only would able, we would make some additional plane into Pe-2 add-on... At the time it was decided to go on the western market to add something there was already too late... Say some new fighters or modifications of existed for the interest of fighter's groups.

However we have added a lot more in the folowing Sturmoviks Over Manchuria (there is several flaybel aircraft, not only Il-10) and action takes over Germany, Manchuria and probably Japan.

Also in the 3rd add-on originallywas planned only Russian experiemental and small series production aircraft from 1942 to 1946. It was called VVS 46. But using the time before the release we ordered to make in additional several more as Soviet as German aircaft.
I can say that except one or maybe two planes there - there were no one present on the market in any previous sims. Be sure. You will be very impressed.

As for these who don't like to buy Pe-2 now.... They may continue to play 4.04 version online. But I'm sure with the price for the add-on it will be popular anyway in time.

Also, these new add-ons all are with the good set of missions that are interesting even just to watch in the mode of Autopilot! Be sure! They are way more interesting for the single player than to play dynamic campaigns. They are all with the spirit of war and modelled manually.

JG52Uther
04-11-2006, 04:15 AM
Fantastic Oleg, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stathem
04-11-2006, 04:36 AM
Personally I loved the original missions for the first Il2...I think if I'd had gone straight into FB with the dynamic campaigns I would have been unlikely to be as addicted to this Sim series as I am.

Thanks Oleg, looking forward to all three of the add-ons with open wallet and baited breath.

Oleg_Maddox
04-11-2006, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by stathem:
Personally I loved the original missions for the first Il2...I think if I'd had gone straight into FB with the dynamic campaigns I would have been unlikely to be as addicted to this Sim series as I am.

Thanks Oleg, looking forward to all three of the add-ons with open wallet and baited breath.

You say exactly right things as I thinking myself.
No one dynamic campaign can be done so good and interesting (even in Falcon) than the manually with love made sequence of a bit branched missions. The only one disvantage - not re-playable many times comparing to Dynamic modes. However really way more interesting to play.

If I only would able to do it - I would make the same with BoB and make such type of campaign as in Il-2 (of cource with new features such say as triggers) and to left open for third party all the neccesary source that they need for creation of third party dynamic campaigns.

Oleg_Maddox
04-11-2006, 06:18 AM
Forgot to say.

The campaigns that made manualy in these add-on created by the same guy, that made previous Russian add-ons for only Russian market and that were sold in the same amount like, say, AEP in Russia! They are interesting. Some time completely done with historical precise (of course not always). The texts are very interesting and Russian community found it in the past that it reads like a book.

In original Il-2 almost half of the missions were done personally by me and 2/3 of texts (for the fighters campaigns of both sides) also by me.

Aeronautico
04-11-2006, 06:21 AM
If I only would able to do it

And... you're not? Why, how comes?

I remember you stating "static" campaigns are better than supposedly "dynamic" ones long before FB was released, and the presence of the latter only being a concession to vocal parts of the community... that now have become silent. Or claim the static ones are better! lol

Amagi
04-11-2006, 06:22 AM
Oleg, thanks for making the new addons available outside Russia.

If you could make one last simple change to IL-2, is it possible to use the existing €˜destruction€ code to boost the defence values of selected map objects- so that they can range form 1000%-0% of their strength rather than 100%-0%?

BoB might be improved by the inclusion of a simple AI editor for mission designers, with its own interface, as well as the triggers you're already adding. These are examples of AI variables which you could allow designers to set:

Return to escort after _ seconds if not under attack or not within _m of an enemy fighter.

Squadron retreat/drop payload if outnumbered by _ fighters ( _m around leader )/ and/if _ losses / and/if in combat for _ minutes.

Maximum aircraft to make simultaneous attack on single enemy fighter _ single bomber _ bomber flight _.

Single unengaged element/flight forced to climb rather than attack when at least _ enemies above and within _m.

Forced RTB when not under attack with _% ammo expended _% damage _% fuel.

Designers had the ability to script events with triggers in CFS2, but not to script AI. An editor might also be useful if the AI pilots are getting 'characters' as well as skill.

Oleg_Maddox
04-11-2006, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Aeronautico:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If I only would able to do it

And... you're not? Why, how comes?

I remember you stating "static" campaigns are better than supposedly "dynamic" ones long before FB was released, and the presence of the latter only being a concession to vocal parts of the community... that now have become silent. Or claim the static ones are better! lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You right, I told such things! Glad to see you remeber it. This measn you play all that time from 2001!!! Thank you very much for that!

Now I can see many speeches what is better. But there is no any conclusion... maybe to make good poll? Of course, in poll should be voting people, who played both.
And if to speak about Dynamic - we can't make the same as in Flacon due to histroical reasons.
You know, one or even ten planes can't change the world war II... But some like this idea due to gameplay... something like arcade inside the simulator...

Oleg_Maddox
04-11-2006, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by Amagi:
Oleg, thanks for making the new addons available outside Russia.

If you could make one last simple change to IL-2, is it possible to use the existing €˜destruction€ code to boost the defence values of selected map objects- so that they can range form 1000%-0% of their strength rather than 100%-0%?

BoB might be improved by the inclusion of a simple AI editor for mission designers, with its own interface, as well as the triggers you're already adding. These are examples of AI variables which you could allow designers to set:

Return to escort after _ seconds if not under attack or not within _m of an enemy fighter.

Squadron retreat/drop payload if outnumbered by _ fighters ( _m around leader )/ and/if _ losses / and/if in combat for _ minutes.

Maximum aircraft to make simultaneous attack on single enemy fighter _ single bomber _ bomber flight _.

Single unengaged element/flight forced to climb rather than attack when at least _ enemies above and within _m.

Forced RTB when not under attack with _% ammo expended _% damage _% fuel.

Designers had the ability to script events with triggers in CFS2, but not to script AI. An editor might also be useful if the AI pilots are getting 'characters' as well as skill.

To change 100% to 1000 isn't possible. In this case we will miss compatibility of all previous missions in where used this function. It will not simply loads... in all cases of static, Dynamic or online missions (including created by third party.

With AI triggers (that would be also triggers) is a problem... for this case we need to make also all the speeches and to try to know all the possible.... AI shoudl be with various, but without changes by users. AI need to decide themselves what to do in each case. And as more complex AI is - more greater hardware you will need... espcially when thewre are more than 100 planes at onec on visible distance.

However you gave me not so bad other idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG52Karaya-X
04-11-2006, 06:59 AM
Oleg, what about the distribution of the DVD and the Addons in the rest of the world

I'm living in Austria and neither online shops nor local retailers (in Austria and Germany) can tell me anything about when and if they are going to sell them...

Another question: Is the UK DVD international meaning that you can install the game in German as well?

Aeronautico
04-11-2006, 07:02 AM
You right, I told such things! Glad to see you remeber it. This measn you play all that time from 2001!!! Thank you very much for that!

All the way from the "leaked" demo in summer 2001, Sir! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And you thank me? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
I thank you for this long term commitment rather, and hope the same will be with BoB... and beyond! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tipo_Man
04-11-2006, 08:31 AM
Mr. Maddox,
Thanks for the efforts and support.

The fact is, that the game IS backward compatible.
You can keep multiple copies of the install folder and copy/rename them when needed.
In fact russian players who play online now already do this, since they have bought Pe-2(4.05) addon, but want to play online(4.04).
On russian forums somebody stated you can only exchange FILES.SFS file to switch versions.

Can you please incorporate this somehow into the game.
It's a feature we can have by manually switching files
What I can do is create a simple BAT file which will ask me which version I would like to run, then copy/overwrite the needed file(s) and then run the game.
Of course an utility from you would be much more suitable for this.

Thanks in advance.

Oleg_Maddox
04-11-2006, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Oleg, what about the distribution of the DVD and the Addons in the rest of the world

I'm living in Austria and neither online shops nor local retailers (in Austria and Germany) can tell me anything about when and if they are going to sell them...

Another question: Is the UK DVD international meaning that you can install the game in German as well?

1. As I know my very good friend from Australia already bought DVD.

2. We did only international version. So it is as always include 3 languages UK/DE/FR. So doesn't matter where you bought it - it will installs Ok in Germany. Just select language from these 3.
If you speak about add-ons, that are only in English: Yes they are compatible with any language version of proper version, except Russian, Russian is "localized" and can be installed only over Russian version.

Currently we compile Czech and Polish language versions DVD, but add-ons also possible to instal over these DVDs installations.

The texts of add-ons content (mostly missions texts ) will be in English, but the rest will be the same - of your language version.

This was designed from the beginning of Il-2 series - compatibility on a low level.... if even some word/text missed in some language, it will be automatically replaced by English.

HuninMunin
04-11-2006, 10:28 AM
Its nice to see you here again, Mr. Maddox. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you had the time to maybe just tell us how many new aircraft do you think we will have after those three addons?

I know that you like to keep the tension and love to surprise us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif , your probably most dedicated customers, but please. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

JG52Karaya-X
04-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
1. As I know my very good friend from Australia already bought DVD.

Not Australia Oleg, Austria! That thingy between Germany and Italy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
http://www.vho.at/_img/austria.en.jpg

Anyway the question remains, are we going to see the DVD in Germany or Austria on the shelves/online stores?


2. We did only international version. So it is as always include 3 languages UK/DE/FR. So doesn't matter where you bought it - it will installs Ok in Germany. Just select language from these


3.
If you speak about add-ons, that are only in English: Yes they are compatible with any language version of proper version, except Russian, Russian is "localized" and can be installed only over Russian version.

Nice to know!

waffen-79
04-11-2006, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Also in the 3rd add-on originallywas planned only Russian experiemental and small series production aircraft from 1942 to 1946. It was called VVS 46. But using the time before the release we ordered to make in additional several more as Soviet as German aircaft.
I can say that except one or maybe two planes there - there were no one present on the market in any previous sims. Be sure. You will be very impressed.

Hi Oleg

Can you please elaborate or clarify more?

I was wondering if you're talking about the russian rocketplane.

Or is there other German Luft'45 planned in that Addon?

THANKS Oleg

crazyivan1970
04-11-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Also in the 3rd add-on originallywas planned only Russian experiemental and small series production aircraft from 1942 to 1946. It was called VVS 46. But using the time before the release we ordered to make in additional several more as Soviet as German aircaft.
I can say that except one or maybe two planes there - there were no one present on the market in any previous sims. Be sure. You will be very impressed.

Hi Oleg

Can you please elaborate or clarify more?

I was wondering if you're talking about the russian rocketplane.

Or is there other German Luft'45 planned in that Addon?

THANKS Oleg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg is talking about both, russian and german experimental planes. Because time allowed more planes were ordered from 3rd party, so in VVS 1946 add-on we will see planes that were not planned initially for the addon. Most of them were never presented in any other simulation, except maybe two.

Willey
04-11-2006, 11:57 AM
http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif

notamuppet
04-11-2006, 12:12 PM
It gets better and better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Kwiatos
04-11-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Also in the 3rd add-on originallywas planned only Russian experiemental and small series production aircraft from 1942 to 1946. It was called VVS 46. But using the time before the release we ordered to make in additional several more as Soviet as German aircaft.
I can say that except one or maybe two planes there - there were no one present on the market in any previous sims. Be sure. You will be very impressed.

Hi Oleg

Can you please elaborate or clarify more?

I was wondering if you're talking about the russian rocketplane.

Or is there other German Luft'45 planned in that Addon?

THANKS Oleg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg is talking about both, russian and german experimental planes. Because time allowed more planes were ordered from 3rd party, so in VVS 1946 add-on we will see planes that were not planned initially for the addon. Most of them were never presented in any other simulation, except maybe two. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm afraid that more ufos will come to game then. If actuallly some common planes have questionable FM what will be with these experimental?

With new addons will come new bombers. Actually in game some bombers have very doubtful DM - for example Ju88 - it is near like flying fortress now and more deadly for attacking planes then even fighters. If in 1940 in Battle of Britain Ju88 were like in these game german bombers wouldn't need escort to protect themself and 1 squadron hurricanes would have problem with single Ju88. If in 1940 German have such Ju88 like we have in game they would actually make tea in London.
All bombers in game have sniper gunners which wasn't change since beginng. So new too tough bombers with sniper gunners will grow these sick situation. I dont have nothing against new planes and bombers but if they will be sensibly moddeled expecilly in FM and DM area. Unfortunately live show something different...

Friendly_flyer
04-11-2006, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
The most discouraging thing that can occur is for an individual to purchase this game (or receive it as a gift) and not be able to play it on-line.


Well, I am fully patched, but I very rarely fly online. From the first time I played it, it took more than two years before I flew online, and I still vastly prefer the campaigns.

So no, it€s not necessarily discouraging at all, though I agree it would be inconvenient.

RCAF_Irish_403
04-11-2006, 03:51 PM
I'm ready for the add-ons...thanx Mr Maddox http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

waffen-79
04-11-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Willey:
http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif

ditto

@CrazyIvan
thnx for the reply

@Oleg
Can't wait!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

F6_Ace
04-11-2006, 04:36 PM
It makes no commercial sense to make it backward compatible, does it?

You're just going to have to shell out to play online...pay per play is almost here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WTE_Galway
04-11-2006, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Kwiatos:

Actually in game some bombers have very doubtful DM - for example Ju88 - it is near like flying fortress now and more deadly for attacking planes then even fighters. If in 1940 in Battle of Britain Ju88 were like in these game german bombers wouldn't need escort to protect themself and 1 squadron hurricanes would have problem with single Ju88. If in 1940 German have such Ju88 like we have in game they would actually make tea in London.
All bombers in game have sniper gunners which wasn't change since beginng. So new too tough bombers with sniper gunners will grow these sick situation. I dont have nothing against new planes and bombers but if they will be sensibly moddeled expecilly in FM and DM area. Unfortunately live show something different...


I actually have photo's somewhere of a ju88 that made it back to base with over 200 bullet holes in it. I think all the crew except the navigator survived uninjured as well. Against a hurricane with .303 ammo they actually stood up fairly well. Larger numbers of ju88's in tight formation were also very dangerous to attack.

VW-IceFire
04-11-2006, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Forgot to say.

The campaigns that made manualy in these add-on created by the same guy, that made previous Russian add-ons for only Russian market and that were sold in the same amount like, say, AEP in Russia! They are interesting. Some time completely done with historical precise (of course not always). The texts are very interesting and Russian community found it in the past that it reads like a book.

In original Il-2 almost half of the missions were done personally by me and 2/3 of texts (for the fighters campaigns of both sides) also by me.
Fantastic...I'm looking forward to seeing what these hand crafted missions look like. I especially want to know how I compare upto that level so I can improve myself. I very much look forward to this!

BigSkill
04-12-2006, 06:02 AM
Hey Oleg nice to read ur words.
I think u made the best WWII simulator with IL2, but i have only 2 question.
1)Why many planes have a bad flying model?D u think to change this in the next patches?

2)Planes as B17, B29 , and TBM Avenger hvnt a cockpit, and isnt flyable.
Is possible to add in the next patches?
Avenger is very important fot PF maps, actually there isnt a substitute og Avenger, and this is a very Big problem, and a Limitation on Pacfic War.

I knoe there wasnt some problems with Grumman, but i think u can add a fictional cockpit for replace them, come on i dont think is si difficult =/.
Anything these changes i think PF is Dead.....

Thx for attention Oleg i hope to see a reply soon.

Big http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VVS-Manuc
04-12-2006, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by BigSkill:
Hey Oleg nice to read ur words.
I think u made the best WWII simulator with IL2, but i have only 2 question.
1)Why many planes have a bad flying model?D u think to change this in the next patches?

2)Planes as B17, B29 , and TBM Avenger hvnt a cockpit, and isnt flyable.
Is possible to add in the next patches?
Avenger is very important fot PF maps, actually there isnt a substitute og Avenger, and this is a very Big problem, and a Limitation on Pacfic War.

I knoe there wasnt some problems with Grumman, but i think u can add a fictional cockpit for replace them, come on i dont think is si difficult =/.
Anything these changes i think PF is Dead.....

Thx for attention Oleg i hope to see a reply soon.

Big http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Please give a definition for: "bad flying model" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Sintubin
04-13-2006, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aeronautico:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If I only would able to do it

And... you're not? Why, how comes?

I remember you stating "static" campaigns are better than supposedly "dynamic" ones long before FB was released, and the presence of the latter only being a concession to vocal parts of the community... that now have become silent. Or claim the static ones are better! lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You right, I told such things! Glad to see you remeber it. This measn you play all that time from 2001!!! Thank you very much for that!

Now I can see many speeches what is better. But there is no any conclusion... maybe to make good poll? Of course, in poll should be voting people, who played both.
And if to speak about Dynamic - we can't make the same as in Flacon due to histroical reasons.
You know, one or even ten planes can't change the world war II... But some like this idea due to gameplay... something like arcade inside the simulator... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I play to from 2001 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Thax to IL/2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

WWMaxGunz
04-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
It makes no commercial sense to make it backward compatible, does it?

You're just going to have to shell out to play online...pay per play is almost here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Really? What is stopping YOU from running a 4.04 server? You know, just for yourself and the
great handful of others who feel the same? What stops anyone from running such a server?

F6_Ace
04-13-2006, 05:54 PM
Nothing..except bandwidth costs, time, hassle, dwinding interest. The usual.

But, it sounds like you're more interested - maybe you could host a 4.04 server for everyone 'left behind'?

carguy_
04-13-2006, 06:05 PM
So if I understood correctly
if I go to Russia/Belarus and purchase the addon I will not be able to run the game with west servers because localised Russian version is not low-level compatible meaning it HAS to have Russian updates.

So I have to buy for 30$ from the West instead of 15$ from the East.That kinda sux http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-13-2006, 08:01 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Oleg_Maddox (page 3)::
...to left open for third party all the neccesary source that they need for creation of third party dynamic campaigns.
That is what we ask for!! http://www.boardy.de/images/smilies/ylflower.gif

Its so hard in FB/PF to program a good dynamic campaign generator.

Oleg you hate dynamic campaign. The customers like dynamic campaigns made by developers who like dynamic campaigns -- Lowengrin likes making dynamic campaigns -- customers like Lowengrin's dynamic campaigns, and keep buying Maddox sims to play them.

This is how opening the Offline version of the sim -- but no aircraft modding http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif -- works to Maddox profit and the customer buying more Maddox sims.

Letting the customers build upon your work is how you build the Olegarchy that will Rule over all World War 2 combat flight sims.

---

just a PluGG...

Lowengrin ~> http://www.lowengrin.com/news.php

Aguila_Azteca
05-03-2006, 06:54 PM
hello oleg, i just want to ask you if u could add a new comand...

it shuld be called "drop your bombs" we already have "drop fuel tanks" the diference would be that instead of fuel tanks it would drop the bombs... finaly a way to lead a level bomb run... sir please add this how hard could it be?

Retrofit
05-03-2006, 07:20 PM
I feel we owe something to 1C on their surperb job in creating such a well respected sim. 10 UK pounds which is what in un $US? 25.00? Anyway, For all of that hard work, here's my coin!

WWMaxGunz
05-04-2006, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Nothing..except bandwidth costs, time, hassle, dwinding interest. The usual.

But, it sounds like you're more interested - maybe you could host a 4.04 server for everyone 'left behind'?

With my 45k dialup?

No need, there is a very few like 2 files to switch between 4.04 and 4.05 (you DID backup
before upgrade?) and you are running either version. The SFS files at least......

What split? Run either version. This is very good indeed. Plus Value!

Tipo_Man
05-04-2006, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:

No need, there is a very few like 2 files to switch between 4.04 and 4.05 (you DID backup
before upgrade?) and you are running either version. The SFS files at least......

What split? Run either version. This is very good indeed. Plus Value!

Yep,
That was what I was asking about.
Instead of having the user mess with the sfs files, make some external utility which does this file switching. It can even be done with a BAT-file.

WWMaxGunz
05-04-2006, 02:39 AM
Different version files to switch can be stored in folders named 4.04 and 4.05.
Then make two icons with the copy commands right in the properties (you can still do this, yah?)
to copy *.* from the right folder to . (current folder).
Or do the batch files and set up icons to those.
Or open folder, select all, drag and drop to main folder. More work but you can see better and
it's easier for people with the Windoze-Only handicap. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Okay, I am a mean bastage.

Tipo_Man
05-04-2006, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Different version files to switch can be stored in folders named 4.04 and 4.05.


Soon we will have 4.06 and 4.07...

So we have to keep four installs of the game.
Furthermore before joining any online server running 4.06 for example we will have to rename/move the appropriate folder.
It's too much pain I think. It can be done much more gracefully by Oleg programmer's. It won't take more than a few hours I think

FI-Skipper
05-04-2006, 12:04 PM
I don't see why they didn't wait and put all 3 addons on one disk which we could buy for say 20-25...Atleast then we wouldnt have all this different version nonsense and I wouldnt have to pay 10 soley for an aircraft I rpobably won't ever fly!

I've also heard that the Pe2 is a bit "overmodelled" which I guess depends on your point of view.I hear it flies like the mossie should so why no spend time getting this plane right!I would happily of paid 10 for the mossie if it had been modelled better than it is now!

Skipper

Nubarus
05-04-2006, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Kwiatos:
I'm afraid that more ufos will come to game then. If actuallly some common planes have questionable FM what will be with these experimental?

Since there are no test trails done for most of these planes since they never got passed the drawing board I really would like to see someone make a case here to get the "questionable" FM corrected.

If that would happen though I would most likely swallow my keyboard when I inhale the much needed oxygen after a hysterical laughing spree.

WWMaxGunz
05-04-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Tipo_Man:
So we have to keep four installs of the game.


Right now one install and two extra sets of SFS files to swap in and out.

The SFS files are a few 10's of megs, the whole game is a few gig installed of backed up.

If I can have 4 different versions for a couple hundred meg overhead then that is better
than perhaps 10G or so?

I'm sure it won't happen as the suits at UBI will have panic attacks at the thought.

VMF-214_HaVoK
05-04-2006, 02:33 PM
Personally I dont care if it is spit or not. I only care to fly with those who are willing to support the sim by spending a few dollars for these excellent addons. If you dont want a spit then buy the addon. If you dont want the addon then fly with the 4.04 crowd. After all from every one swears in the lobby...hardly anyone will buy the Pe-2 addon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif We shall see.

JG53Frankyboy
05-04-2006, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kwiatos:

Actually in game some bombers have very doubtful DM - for example Ju88 - it is near like flying fortress now and more deadly for attacking planes then even fighters. If in 1940 in Battle of Britain Ju88 were like in these game german bombers wouldn't need escort to protect themself and 1 squadron hurricanes would have problem with single Ju88. If in 1940 German have such Ju88 like we have in game they would actually make tea in London.
All bombers in game have sniper gunners which wasn't change since beginng. So new too tough bombers with sniper gunners will grow these sick situation. I dont have nothing against new planes and bombers but if they will be sensibly moddeled expecilly in FM and DM area. Unfortunately live show something different...


I actually have photo's somewhere of a ju88 that made it back to base with over 200 bullet holes in it. I think all the crew except the navigator survived uninjured as well. Against a hurricane with .303 ammo they actually stood up fairly well. Larger numbers of ju88's in tight formation were also very dangerous to attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

anyway, the BoB Ju88s were not of the A-4 variant !
there were A-1 and some A-5 (build BEFORE the A-4) over England in the summer of 1940......

our in game A-4 is representing most propably a version of summer 1941 , the time of Barbarossa . this game is not programmed to simulate the BoB !!