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JG52Karaya-X
04-04-2006, 11:43 AM
into an E7/N please?

The E7/Z we have has the DB601N with 1175PS at takeoff and GM1 injection. While this Nitrous-oxide boost is only effective at high alts (>6500m, using it below will cook your engine in a matter of minutes) it makes for a noticeable weight hit of ~200kg. Needless to say that this version of the Emil was very rare at best - especially on the Eastern Front (I doubt its service there).

A normal E7/N with the DB601N but without GM1 on the other hand was a common sight over North Africa and the Russian skies in 1941 and would fill the space between the ordinary E4 and F2/4.
So please dump the GM1 and give us a real "late" Emil http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

joeap
04-04-2006, 12:09 PM
Would be nice indeed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

faustnik
04-04-2006, 12:16 PM
Yes, good idea! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

HayateAce
04-04-2006, 12:26 PM
By all means add another UFO.

Afterall, the game is truly called Bs109:Revisionist Battles.

JG52Karaya-X
04-04-2006, 12:30 PM
BUMP...

Don't feed the trolls

Monson74
04-04-2006, 12:36 PM
Great idea - same 3D-model but different performance. IIRC the E-7/Z was a Channel Front & home defence thingy with not many numbers produced.

Monson74
04-04-2006, 12:46 PM
Maybe even an E-7/Trop with a nice desert camo? (drool)

JG52Karaya-X
04-04-2006, 12:51 PM
I have my skepsis about tropical versions of fighters in IL2 (Spit Vc *cough*)

But a normal E7/N would be suhweet

JG53Frankyboy
04-04-2006, 02:09 PM
actually this wish is a dead horse like a Bf109G6/AS without MW50.............

Ratsack
04-04-2006, 07:32 PM
Good idea with the E7N.

What's wrong with the Spit Vc in your view?

cheers,
Ratsack

waffen-79
04-04-2006, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
By all means add another UFO.

Afterall, the game is truly called Bs109:Revisionist Battles.

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

JG52Karaya-X
04-05-2006, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Ratsack:
Good idea with the E7N.

What's wrong with the Spit Vc in your view?

From the 3D model it has the Vokes filter mounted which in real life resulted in a dramatic loss of performance - speed and climb were drastically reduced and the tropical filter on the british planes also meant a noticeable weight hit.

In IL2 the Vc with 2x20mm (and 4x.303) has EXACTLY the same performance as the normal Vb - the Vc with 4x20mm only has a slightly less climb and turn due to its heavier armament http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

La7_brook
04-05-2006, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
into an E7/N please?

The E7/Z we have has the DB601N with 1175PS at takeoff and GM1 injection. While this Nitrous-oxide boost is only effective at high alts (>6500m, using it below will cook your engine in a matter of minutes) it makes for a noticeable weight hit of ~200kg. Needless to say that this version of the Emil was very rare at best - especially on the Eastern Front (I doubt its service there).

A normal E7/N with the DB601N but without GM1 on the other hand was a common sight over North Africa and the Russian skies in 1941 and would fill the space between the ordinary E4 and F2/4.
So please dump the GM1 and give us a real "late" Emil http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif cool bump http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

JG52Karaya-X
04-05-2006, 02:09 AM
A SpitVb vs E7/N matchup would be a most interesting scenario - BUMP

Tipo_Man
04-05-2006, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
A SpitVb vs E7/N matchup would be a most interesting scenario - BUMP

Yep,

...and a single bomb for 109F , please !

KG26_Oranje
04-05-2006, 08:12 AM
DB601N with 1175 hp?????
And a Bf109E-7N ???? thats just the normal Bf109E-7.
specs from jane fighting aircrafts from WW2.

Specification : Me109E-3
Year : 1938
Type : Fighter.
Crew : One.
Power plant : One Daimler Benz DB601Aa 12-cylinder, inverted Vee, liquid-cooled engine developing 1175 hp.
Dimensions : Span, 32 ft 4.5 in (9.87m) ; length, 28 ft 4.5 in (8.64m) ; height, 8 ft 2-1/3 in (2.50m) ; wing area , 174.05 sq ft (16.17 sq/m).
Weights : Empty weight, 4.189 lb (1.900 kg) ; loaded weight, 5.875 lb (2.665 kg).
Performance : Max speed 348 mp/h (560 km/h) (E-1 570 km) at 14,560 ft (4.440 m) ; cruising speed 202 mp/h at 3280 ft ; climrate, 3280 ft per min ; service ceiling, 34.450 ft ; range 410 mls (660 km).
Armament : Two 20 mm MG FF cannon in wings, two 7.9 mm MG 17 machine guns in upper cowling and engine mounted 20 mm MG FF (not fitted in service)
(E-1 four 7.9 mm MG 17 machine guns).

Specification : Me109E-4/N.(E-4/B)
Year : 1939.
Type : Fighter.
Crew : One.
Power plant : One Daimler Benz DB601N (DB601Aa) 12-cylinder, inverted Vee, liquid-cooled engine developing 1200 hp (1175 hp).
Dimensions : Span, 32 ft 4.5 in (9.87m) ; length, 28 ft 4.5 in (8.64m) ; height, 8 ft 2-1/3 in (2.50m) ; wing area , 174.05 sq ft (16.17 sq/m).
Weights : Empty weight, 4.440 lb (1.996 kg) ; loaded weight, 5.520 lb (2.504 kg).
Performance : Max speed 354 mp/h (570 km/h) (E-4/B 540 km/h loaded with one 551 lb bomb) at 12,480 ft (3.800 m) ; Cruising speed 249 mp/h (400 km/h) at 62.5 percent rated power ; stalling speed 75 mp/h (121 km/h) in landing configuration with flaps down ; range 412 mls (663 km) ; service ceiling, 36000 ft (10973 m) ; Initial climb rate 945 meters/min (3100 ft/min).
Armament : Two 20 mm MG FF cannon in wings, two 7.9 mm MG 17 machine guns in upper cowling.
(E-4/B four one 551 lb/250 kg or four 110 lb/50 kg bombs).

Specification : Me109E-7/Z.
Year : 1940.
Type : Fighter.
Crew : One.
Power plant : One Daimler Benz DB601N 12-cylinder, inverted Vee, liquid-cooled engine developing with GM-1 boost , 1200 hp, emergency power rating of 1270 HP for a 1 min period at 5000m.
Dimensions : Span, 32 ft 4.5 in (9.87m) ; length, 28 ft 4.5 in (8.64m) ; height, 8 ft 2-1/3 in (2.50m) ; wing area , 174.05 sq ft (16.17 sq/m).
Weights : Empty weight, 4.489 lb (2.010 kg) ; loaded weight, 5.525 lb (2.505 kg).
Performance : Max speed 354 mp/h (590 km/h) at 12,480 ft (3.800 m).
Armament : Two 20 mm MG FF cannon in wings, two 7.9 mm MG 17 machine guns in upper cowling.

Summary of variants.

Bf109E-0 : Pre-produktion serie, 10 bild , DB601A engine instaled , two MG 17 in wings mounted and two in upper cowling.
Bf109E-1 :Initial produktion model, Daimler Benz 601A engine, two MG 17 machine guns and two MG FF canons , The engine mounted 20 mm MG FF was not fitted in produktion models, First mdels had four MG 17 machine guns mountaded instead of armament as above.
Bf109E-1/B : Fighter bomber version of the E-1, armament as E-1 but differand in having a ETC 50 bomb rack for a bomb load of four 110 lb/50 kg bombs.
Bf109E-3 : Similar to E-1 apart from having a 1175 hp DB601Aa engine instaled.
Bf109E-3a : Export model, all luftwaffe equipment , removed , DB601Aa engine instaled.
Bf109E-4 : Preceded E-3 in 1940 and introduced new improved MG FF canons.
Bf109E-4/B : Fighter bomber versain of the E-4 with ETC 50 and ETC250 bomb rack.
Bf109E-4/N : Similar to E-4 apart from having a 1200 hp DB601N engine instaled.
Bf109E-5 : Reconnaissance equivalent of E-4 differing in Rb 21/18 camera equipment, wiht DB601Aa engine and two MG 17 machine guns , cannons removed.
Bf109E-6 : Similar to E-5 differing in having the DB601N engine.
Bf109E-7 : Similar to E-4/N.
Bf109E-7/Trop : Tropical version of the E-7.
Bf109E-7/U2 : long range fighter bomber sub-variant, with additionel armour and ETC 250 bomb rack for a bomb load of one 551 lb/250 kg (SC250) or a 66 lmp gal (300 l) drop belly tank., Also known as BF109E-7/B.
Bf109E-7/Z : High altitude fighter With nitrous oxide GM-1 boost
Bf109E-8 : The E-8 had a 1,350 hp DB601E engine and improved pilot armour , armament as E-7.
Bf109E-9 : Reconnaissance versian based on E-8 cannons removed Rb 50/30 camera installation.

JG52Karaya-X
04-05-2006, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
DB601N with 1175 hp?????
And a Bf109E-7N ???? thats just the normal Bf109E-7.


German PS and English hp do not translate 1:1 - an english horse power is slightly more than its German equivalent. So 1200PS = 1175hp

As you yourself posted DB601N with 1175hp (look at the E4/N which has the same engine; /N for DB601"N") and no our E7/B is not a "normal" (i.e. clean) E7 - it has the bombrack mounted as default and barely achieves the same speeds and climbrate as the E4 (but with worse turnrate)

A clean E7/N should achieve ~575km/h at rated altitude and climb better than an E4 as well - which neither the E7/B nor the E7/Z fulfill

3.JG51_BigBear
04-05-2006, 09:48 AM
This sounds like a cool idea but there are so many planes that need work, I really whish 1C would focus on those before adding anymore stuff.

KG26_Oranje
04-05-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
DB601N with 1175 hp?????
And a Bf109E-7N ???? thats just the normal Bf109E-7.


German PS and English hp do not translate 1:1 - an english horse power is slightly more than its German equivalent. So 1200PS = 1175hp

As you yourself posted DB601N with 1175hp (look at the E4/N which has the same engine; /N for DB601"N") and no our E7/B is not a "normal" (i.e. clean) E7 - it has the bombrack mounted as default and barely achieves the same speeds and climbrate as the E4 (but with worse turnrate)

A clean E7/N should achieve ~575km/h at rated altitude and climb better than an E4 as well - which neither the E7/B nor the E7/Z fulfill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

S! Bro, to clear it up its in HP not PS , read again , the data that Jane used for the E serie is from Messerschmitt , captured test data , from RAF test , VVS test data and US test data.
Its all in HP not PS to avoid mixing data up.
And the have keep the factory origenal Varianst name`s.
So a Bf109E-7/n dont exist`.
Just like the Bf109E-7/B , on paper its a BF109E-7/U2.

If u like a model chanced by oleg u most prove its existens by facts.
Come wiht correct factory or/and field data.

I dont say that in many book the name Bf/Me109E-7/N is not exist , its just not correct and a DB601N give 1200 HP clean wiht out boost.

Hope its clear it up a bit and help it wiht the type u like to coming to the game or u like to have chanced.

JG52Karaya-X
04-05-2006, 10:46 AM
DB601A-1
Up to 1,100 PS (809 kW) at sea-level at 2,400 rpm, up to 1,020 PS (750 kW) at 2,400 rpm and 4.5 km altitude, B4 fuel

DB601Aa
Up to 1,175 PS (865 kW) at sea-level at 2,500 rpm, up to 1,100 PS (809 kW) at 2,400 rpm and 3.7 km altitude, B4 fuel

DB601B-1/Ba
Same as DB601A-1/Aa for use in Me 110 and/or bomber aircraft (different prop/engine ratio, 1:1.88 instead of 1:1.55)

DB601N
Up to 1,175 PS (864 kW) at sea-level and at 4.9 km altitude with 2,600 rpm, C3 fuel
Up to 1,270 PS (934 kW) at 2.1 km altitude with 2,600 rpm

PS: I refer to the E7 with DB601N as E7/N because not all E7s actually received that engine. Early models retained the older DB601A of the E3/4.

ELKASKONE
04-05-2006, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
DB601N with 1175 hp?????
And a Bf109E-7N ???? thats just the normal Bf109E-7.

Here are Documents from DB601A & DB601Aa & DB601N!

DB601A

http://img138.imagevenue.com/loc171/th_45311_DB601A__Leistungsblatt_1937.jpg (http://img138.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc171&image=45311_DB601A__Leistungsblatt_1937.jpg)

http://img127.imagevenue.com/loc248/th_45522_DB601A__Hoehenleistungen.jpg (http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc248&image=45522_DB601A__Hoehenleistungen.jpg)


DB601Aa

http://img13.imagevenue.com/loc269/th_45317_DB601Aa__Leistungsblatt_1937.jpg (http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc269&image=45317_DB601Aa__Leistungsblatt_1937.jpg)

http://img133.imagevenue.com/loc239/th_45525_DB601Aa__Motorleistung.jpg (http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc239&image=45525_DB601Aa__Motorleistung.jpg) [/B]


DB601N

http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc248/th_57046_DB601N__Leistungsblatt_1939.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc248&image=57046_DB601N__Leistungsblatt_1939.jpg)

http://img21.imagevenue.com/loc48/th_58666_DB601N__Hoehenleistungen_2.jpg (http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc48&image=58666_DB601N__Hoehenleistungen_2.jpg)

JG52Karaya-X
04-05-2006, 11:35 AM
Thank you Elaskone! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I was searching for these documents on my comp but couldn't find them... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Megile_
04-05-2006, 01:43 PM
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/9286/100534542gh.jpg

JG52-6High
04-06-2006, 01:27 PM
This one needs a BUMP!

S! Du Schniitzl ;-)

6

J_Weaver
04-06-2006, 03:56 PM
This is kinda OT for this thread, but which of teh Emil's is the best?

Kurfurst__
04-07-2006, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
DB601N with 1175 hp?????
And a Bf109E-7N ???? thats just the normal Bf109E-7.

Yes and no. Yes, both the DB 601Aa and the DB 601N had 1175 PS at Sea Level (at 1,45 and 1,35ata respectively).

However this 1175 PS was a special low altitude/takeoff power for the 601Aa, usable for 1 min only and at low altitudes. The normal 5-min WEP was 990 PS. As opposed to this, the 601Ns peak 1175 PS is a true 5-min WEP, and is usable at all altitudes. Briefly, the /N powered Emils have about 200 PS plus and better altitude performance.

The 601N had redesigned pistons and used 100 octane fuel, appeared in June/July 1940 on the E-4/N. Bf 110s however had priority over the Emils for a few months for the new engine. The basic Emil made 570 kph at 5000m with the basic DB 601Aa engine, I would presume the 601N one was 10-20 kph faster - somewhere between the 109F2 and the ordinary Emils. Quite a good match for Spit Vs.

WWMaxGunz
04-07-2006, 09:09 AM
And available sometime 1940, before the Spit V. Before Barbarossa. Before fuel shortages.

JG53Frankyboy
04-07-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by J_Weaver:
This is kinda OT for this thread, but which of teh Emil's is the best?

in game the Bf109E-4.
the worst is the Bf109E-4/B.

CUJO_1970
04-08-2006, 11:10 AM
BUMP!

Would love to have another Emil.

jurinko
04-08-2006, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
... our E7/B is not a "normal" (i.e. clean) E7 - it has the bombrack mounted as default and barely achieves the same speeds and climbrate as the E4 (but with worse turnrate)

E-7/B is just as fast as E-4, climbs the same and should turn worse (il2compare v3.0.1 based on patch 4.05). In 3.04, E-4 was much slower and E-4/B very much slower than E-7.

JG52Karaya-X
04-09-2006, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by jurinko:
E-7/B is just as fast as E-4, climbs the same and should turn worse.

Uhm, that's exactly what I said... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Monson74
04-09-2006, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
And available sometime 1940, before the Spit V. Before Barbarossa. Before fuel shortages.

I thought the E-7/N was an early '41 bird?!?

Kurfurst__
04-09-2006, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by Monson74:
I thought the E-7/N was an early '41 bird?!?

Not entirely sure when the E-7/N appeared exactly, but there were dozens of it in service by Jan 1 1941... The precedessor E-4/N appeared in early July 1940, and was not much different : the /N variants were simply the basic stock but the new 601N engine. The stock E-7 appeared in early August as well, so I guess the E-7/N is probably autmomn 1940.

Monson74
04-09-2006, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monson74:
I thought the E-7/N was an early '41 bird?!?

Not entirely sure when the E-7/N appeared exactly, but there were dozens of it in service by Jan 1 1941... The precedessor E-4/N appeared in early July 1940, and was not much different : the /N variants were simply the basic stock but the new 601N engine. The stock E-7 appeared in early August as well, so I guess the E-7/N is probably autmomn 1940. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr - so the E-7/N is just an E-4/N with the new spinner & fuel tank?

Kurfurst__
04-09-2006, 03:55 PM
Yep, perhaps there are some nitty differences in detail, but performance wise, the two are the same.

butch2k
04-10-2006, 11:12 AM
An E-7/N is basically an E-4/BN with the additional piping to accomodate a droptank.
An E-4/N can't carry the ETC, only the /B were modified so as to accomodate a bomb release system (additional wirings).

JG52Karaya-X
04-14-2006, 06:46 AM
BumP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Monson74
04-14-2006, 08:26 AM
What about the cockpit?

Scen
04-14-2006, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
By all means add another UFO.

Afterall, the game is truly called Bs109:Revisionist Battles.

LoL

Where do you come up with this ****

JG52Karaya-X
04-15-2006, 02:40 PM
He's HayateFarce - his agenda is only made up of bashing everything axis...

Copperhead310th
04-19-2006, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
He's HayateFarce - his agenda is only made up of bashing everything axis...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Sadly...that used to be my job.

Well i've sure left the shop in capable hands! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifI gave up. can't beat em..join em!

JG52Karaya-X
04-21-2006, 01:50 AM
I'd like to see Hayatetroll fly a Bf109G10/K4 on Warclouds against the new Spit25lbs and get his *** handed to him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

But then again WW is more his style...

Seriously, I fly all sides if need be. If in a Pacific theatre there are too many reds I'll take a Zero, if it's other way around I'll take an F6F or F4U. I fly Russian, British or USAAF planes as well if sides are unbalanced - what is it with people who only seem to fly one side? Hello, you're missing 'bout 75% of this sim...