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Bearcat99
01-20-2006, 06:31 AM
You have got to see this..... If BoB can have the lighting and graphics effecs of this thing.. and the updated AI, mission building, FM/DM stuff..... Oooooo baby!!! I know this is a console but..... WOWZERS!! I cant imagine a PC NOT being able to do this.XBOX 360 Video (http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_2062_en.html).

Bearcat99
01-20-2006, 06:31 AM
You have got to see this..... If BoB can have the lighting and graphics effecs of this thing.. and the updated AI, mission building, FM/DM stuff..... Oooooo baby!!! I know this is a console but..... WOWZERS!! I cant imagine a PC NOT being able to do this.XBOX 360 Video (http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_2062_en.html).

jds1978
01-20-2006, 06:34 AM
i'll second that "WOW"..
righteous stuff

Deedsundone
01-20-2006, 10:33 AM
Nice but nothing beats GT Legends http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

knightflyte
01-20-2006, 11:13 AM
I've enjoyed GTR for about 8 months now.....(Llove Imola Track).... and look forward to the US release of GTL

SeaFireLIV
01-20-2006, 11:15 AM
I don`t think you`ll be dissappointed, bearcat.

carguy_
01-20-2006, 12:09 PM
Uhuh kinda looks like GT5.

As always stunning graphically.The cockpit is not so nicely textured though I`m happy they finally put it in those silly arcade races.

Too bad that in reality the guy would be dead after making so many mistakes at cornering.I`m a long time GTR racing fan(left it two years ago) and NOBODY races like in this game.

Also something tell me those cars are made of titanium.Such behaviour on the tracks costs at least two digit $ money.


All of that makes those games "fun".After two weeks of intense gaming they are forgotten.


I`m pretty pissed that PC got a looooong way to reach such graphics.



Oh and ROFLMAO at gamepad racing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

JSG72
01-20-2006, 02:41 PM
Having just not long bought GTL.
Have to say that these type of graphics are obtainable within IL2/FB/AEP/PF.
It is just that the balancing netween IQ and playability is the crucial factor.
It's one thing having a car cirulating round a track and getting a couple of dents in 2D.
When you Fly in 3D and get Whole plane destruction. It would then come down to modelling. I would think?
BTW GTL is back in its Box
uch as I love these cars. IL2/FB/AEP/PF Rules! in my mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

danjama
01-20-2006, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knightflyte:
I've enjoyed GTR for about 8 months now.....(Llove Imola Track).... and look forward to the US release of GTL </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

GTL is amazing, much better IMO than GTR! Get is ASAP!

BSS_CUDA
01-20-2006, 03:00 PM
wow the graphics rock, wonder if it has a damage model? didnt look like it from the replay

nodevotion
01-20-2006, 03:01 PM
It looks nice but who was it who said "every time you buy a console game a flight sim dies".

I'm waiting another year before I buy new hardware because I think the tech advances in that time are going to be outstanding.

ploughman
01-20-2006, 03:06 PM
As a tie in to the whole aviation world, if you look to the left just after the race starts you'll notice an Obelisk set between two bronze lions on the embankment. The Obelisk is Cleopatra's needle, the bronze lion's actually have damage caused by the first ever bombs dropped on London by German Zeppelins during WWI!

Total Flight Sim Fusion! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Xiolablu3
01-20-2006, 03:57 PM
Great stuff, but as a;ways, the Console world jumps ahead for a few months, but the PC world soon catches up.

I am sure the PC could do those grpahics now, but they optimise games for lower end comps.

jolly_magpie
01-20-2006, 04:34 PM
Consoles are lame. Why make it look pretty when it has the same gameplay as Pole Position.

Badsight.
01-20-2006, 05:14 PM
come on people - its just PGR 3

the game has been hyped for the last 6 months & is now out

you dont need a PC with a high end graphics card like you do with GT:Legends , you need a console to play this game

the X360

seriously - if you like sims more than acrade games (PGR3 is a fun game) then youll be looking out for "Forza-2" sometime later this year . & GT5 on the PS3 ought to be awesome as well

SeaFireLIV
01-20-2006, 07:50 PM
maybe I`m too jaded, but I didn`t find the graphics such an amazing leap really (sorry bearcat99). It`s pretty much expected by now on a next-gen console.

As others have said, I would not be too happy if BOB had such great graphics, but allowed you to rip around corners unrealistically and bump into cars at 150mph without getting so much as a scratch... Those cars are clearly overmodelled!

Troll2k
01-21-2006, 12:38 AM
I did not see any damage from the bumping going on.Nor spin outs from nudging.But worst of all I did not see any triggers on the steering wheel.

Gibbage1
01-21-2006, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
maybe I`m too jaded, but I didn`t find the graphics such an amazing leap really (sorry bearcat99). It`s pretty much expected by now on a next-gen console.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well first, no first gen game on a colsole will show the full capabilities. 2nd, do you have a 360? No. I do!!! One of the lucky few. I can say first hand that the graphics are STUNNING! You can only tell first hand as the video above is low resolution.

The graphics are not the only feature that is great about the 360. The Xbox live is something again that must be experanced. I talk with my friend using the wireless controller and mic as I play my own game. If we want, I can jump into a game with him, or invite others to just talk with us! As we play, we compair each others score live. Also see what accomplishments the others made.

Also, one thing Xbox has that PC does not yes is the ablility to display HOUNDREDS of VERY high detail charactors on the screen AT ONCE! In Kameo, there is a massive battle between trolls and humans. Each charactor in this massive battle is VERY detailed.

What does that mean for us flight simmers? Simple. Think of a B-17 formation over Berlin. Not 30 or so, im talking 1000. Your in a FW-190, and you see these 1000 bombers in view, along with the 300 or so P-51 escorts. All in full detail, streaming con trails. Now what if your the P-51? After you dispatch the Fw-190's, you go down low and see what there is too straif. You see hundred of panzer tanks, hundreds of shirman tanks, and a few THOUSAND troops fighting it out.

All this without ever pausing to load.

The Xbox 360 is an increadable peace of hardware. The first few titles dont truly show its capability. Wait to see the real power in the next line of series.

Gibbage1
01-21-2006, 12:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Troll2k:
I did not see any damage from the bumping going on.Nor spin outs from nudging.But worst of all I did not see any triggers on the steering wheel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No car company will allow any publisher to show there car damaged or allow there car to be damaged in a game. Its a simple fact of tradmarks. Any game that shows damage on a car is a fictishious car like Carmageddon.

Aaron_GT
01-21-2006, 01:16 AM
I'd be happy enough if flight sims ran on the Xbox 360 or PS3 (I would imagine the MS FS series would be Xbox only) provided the extra bits or convertors were also available (Track IR, support for FF sticks, etc). I could reserve my PC for more 'serious' stuff then, and not upgrade it so often. Might save me money overall.

Gibbage1
01-21-2006, 03:39 AM
The Xbox 360 has 3 USB ports. My X-52 did not work http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I heard wheels from Logitech and such do. Maybe my old Sidewinder in the closet would? Who knows. But the OS is upgradeable, so they can release a patch on Live to add support for devices as they see fit. Im sure if flight sims made it to the 360, they would add stick support.

carguy_
01-21-2006, 03:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
No car company will allow any publisher to show there car damaged or allow there car to be damaged in a game. Its a simple fact of tradmarks. Any game that shows damage on a car is a fictishious car like Carmageddon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


*cough*cough*NFS III/IV/V*cough*

SeaFireLIV
01-21-2006, 04:23 AM
Just gotten up this sunny saturday morning and before I go out I saw gibbage`s responses. Well, the 360 sounds impressive, we`ll see how the next series of games turn out then...

Carguy is right, btw, i`m a big fan of NFSII and III and they allow car damage on all cars from porches to ferrari. Although there was a time once when car manufacturers would not allow this, I know ferrari wouldn`t allow its car to be involved in games where you broke the law (speed limit) and had police chasing you.

Maybe the new title of an XBOX 360 console has once again caused car manufacturers to get cold feet, whatever, it`s an easy cop out for programmers then (they just concentrate on graphics) and I really hate driving cars that don`t suffer consequences to bad driving except slowing down a bit.

Gibbage1
01-21-2006, 04:52 AM
I have NFS MW on my 360 (Looks 10X better then the PC) and I can crack windows and scratch paint, but not dent the name brand cars. I ran a Porche GT (Carbon fiber body) into a semi truck at 220MPH and nothing bad happened. On the otherhand, the generic passanger vehicles crumble like crazy and so do the generic cop cars. The Corvet ZR1 cop cars dont crumble.

P.S. I have my 360 hooked up to my Dell 20.1" wide screen monitor with a VGA cable. Great combo!!! To bad my dell is not capable of 1080, but the Xbox detected my monitor and I am running WELL over 720I (1380x786 or something). I also have a Logitech 5.1 system with OPRICAL connection to the Xbox.

Its a great little system and I am NOT a console guy. I dont like them to be honest. I have only had 3 consoles in my life. Attari 2600, Nintendo (original) and a Gamecube. I was impressed with my friends 360 for just the Xbox live content. The ability to talk to friends, watch others play games, compete in not only live games but scores and "Gamer points" and all that jaz. Great stuff. This type of inter connectivity is the future. Gone are the days of playing games with just yourself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Capt.England
01-21-2006, 05:30 AM
Just wait until PS3 comes out. I've heard it's at least twice as powerful as the XB360, and it's already run linux OS. Maybe PC days are slowly coming to an end?

DuxCorvan
01-21-2006, 06:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.England:
Just wait until PS3 comes out. I've heard it's at least twice as powerful as the XB360, and it's already run linux OS. Maybe PC days are slowly coming to an end? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Show me a console that can write a letter, catalogue my CD collection, play Silent Hunter III and Rome: Total War, make a skin with Photoshop, browse the web and post in this forum, see a model in GMAX, make an Amazon purchase, read my e-mail, work in a net database, rip a CD for my portable MP3 player, see TV, edit a movie, play 1978's classic 'Space Invaders', play a DVD, scan and OCR a book, program an utility, store a collection of recipes, play a massive online rol game, grab some mystery EVP sounds from a recorder and edit them to sound clearer, see how's last Playmate, print a music score, upload to an FTP your last digital camera pic, update a blog page, calculate a logarythm and run FB/PF with different control devices, all in a week, and, yes, PC days may be coming to an end.

Deedsundone
01-21-2006, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
No car company will allow any publisher to show there car damaged or allow there car to be damaged in a game. Its a simple fact of tradmarks. Any game that shows damage on a car is a fictishious car like Carmageddon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmm,Richard Burns Rally....and many many more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

major_setback
01-21-2006, 09:42 AM
This was my favorite clip from that site. It shows side views and distant buildings better than the first ones.


gothamtv_2.avi


Notice how the objects the whiz by, or that the cars pass at speed are motion - blurred. I wonder if this might help with rendering...not having to replicate much detail. Close objects that are moving fast might just load pre-blurred textures in the same way that distant objects are rendered at lower quality?

Bearcat99
01-21-2006, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
maybe I`m too jaded, but I didn`t find the graphics such an amazing leap really (sorry bearcat99). It`s pretty much expected by now on a next-gen console.

As others have said, I would not be too happy if BOB had such great graphics, but allowed you to rip around corners unrealistically and bump into cars at 150mph without getting so much as a scratch... Those cars are clearly overmodelled! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To the former.... be all that as it may be .... I know this is expected in consoles.. but so far we dont have anything in a decent WWII sim that comes close to that level of graphics.... did you note the realtime shadows and reflections on the skins? (With something capable of that could dynamic weathering be introduced in a sim where each time you use a skin it is slightly degraded.... unless you do "maintennce on it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif) Thats my point.... The purpose of this thread was not to spark the PC vs console debate... and frankly.. I think that anything a console can do a PC can do.. if you put enough into it.... I just hope that there are some advances in technology that will allow us to have those kinds of graphics, with FMs and DMs more accurate than in this sim.... with a few hundred planes in the air at once.... and stuff on the ground.... I just was impressed and wanted to share.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The latter goes without saying..... if nothing else 1C has created a base of ultra nitpicky (thats a good thing.... even if some of us do get kind of anal about it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) consumers with high expectations and a pretty good idea of what to expect. The flight sim bar has been raised so high by 1C as to be taken for granted. This sim did for flight sims what The Matrix and Star Wars did for sci fi movies.... Before that we accepted what had been the norm. I remember flopping around in the sky in CFS1 and saying..."This is fun.. but this cant be right...." but it was what it was. I am looking forward to BoB in a big way.... I also read an article in PC Pilot I think it was.. either that or Computer Pilot... and it was talking about the new Gennadich thing coming out in the fall, being released by 1C. They said that it uses the IL2 engine (which we knew) but that it was modified and improved.... I am curious as to what that will bring, since the standards in a WWI sim would be sligtly simpler than in a WWII sim or a jet sim... as far as FMs & DMs go... So I am wondering where all the "extra" stuff will go... I am looking forward to that too.

Dash_C.
01-21-2006, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
This was my favorite clip from that site. It shows side views and distant buildings better than the first ones.


gothamtv_2.avi


Notice how the objects the whiz by, or that the cars pass at speed are motion - blurred. I wonder if this might help with rendering...not having to replicate much detail. Close objects that are moving fast might just load pre-blurred textures in the same way that distant objects are rendered at lower quality? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm fairly certain this is not quite how it works. The world is rendered in full detail, and postprocessing takes care of the blur effect. If anything, this increases render time.

major_setback
01-22-2006, 03:07 AM
I realise this...I was suggesting an alternative to that method, one that would reduce render times.
Blurring does give amore realistic look to motion...just look at the way Tochy uses blurring in his CGI films, it shows up well if you freeze-frame during the film clip '1945', half of the film is blurred! It just gives that sense of speed...

http://www.angel.ne.jp/~tochy/ (http://www.angel.ne.jp/%7Etochy/)


Sorry, I didn't express myself very clearly in that earlier post. I have often reflected on the fact that my computer stutters when planes come close and fast with excellent object detail set, when really all that detail wouldn't even be seen (due to blur). Lower quality detail would work just as well when blurred!

Gibbage1
01-22-2006, 05:02 AM
Motion blur is a needed process to make motion video all that more realistic. CGI without looks odd and too clean. The problem is motion blur is EXTREAMLY processor intensive. When doing 3D animations at work, I dont use motion blur till the final product! It will make you sceen that renders at 15 seconds a frame render at 1 min a frame.

Motion blur is faked in games using post processes. NFS MW so far is the best use of MoBlur I have seen yet, and the most convincing. As your speed picks up, the objects on the side start to blur as they wiz by. Once you top 150MPH+, you start to get a sort of tunnel vision. Only objects in front of you are very clear! Everything on the side is a big streak of blur!!!! This adds a LOT too the immersion! In fact if freaks me out! Very cool stuff.

Also real-time reflections is very expensive. In the CGI world, we use ray trace reflections. Again, enabling it will add 20x the time to render. I dont know how they do it in the Xbox. I can only speculate, but they did a VERY good job. The reflection is very clean and you can tell what its reflecting. Reflections in games today are typically faked using cube mapping. The reflective material you see in CFS3 or FS2004 is a normal image reflecting off the surface, not the enviornment. This image is typically sky or something. This type of reflection renders very fast, but will only reflect whats in the texture map. There is also mirror mapping, but thats only for flat surfaces. You see this on mirrors of floors in shooters often.

In the CGI world, motion blur, live reflections, anti-aliasing, and all these nice tricks on an HD animation takes 1 hour plus per frame using some heavy hardware. The 360 is able to simulate that at 30 frames per second.

I should know. I do the modeling for all of the Monster Garage TV show on the Discovery Channel. The models in NFS MW look better on the 360 rendered live then what I can do at work rendered at a few minutes a frame using dual Xeon systems. Its truly impressive.

tagTaken2
01-22-2006, 06:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.England:
Just wait until PS3 comes out. I've heard it's at least twice as powerful as the XB360, and it's already run linux OS. Maybe PC days are slowly coming to an end? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Show me a console that can write a letter, catalogue my CD collection, play Silent Hunter III and Rome: Total War, make a skin with Photoshop, browse the web and post in this forum, see a model in GMAX, make an Amazon purchase, read my e-mail, work in a net database, rip a CD for my portable MP3 player, see TV, edit a movie, play 1978's classic 'Space Invaders', play a DVD, scan and OCR a book, program an utility, store a collection of recipes, play a massive online rol game, grab some mystery EVP sounds from a recorder and edit them to sound clearer, see how's last Playmate, print a music score, upload to an FTP your last digital camera pic, update a blog page, calculate a logarythm and run FB/PF with different control devices, all in a week, and, yes, PC days may be coming to an end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Absolutely. I don't own a stereo, tv, dvd player etc.

And with the gift of USB, I can now toast bread and warm my coffee.