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Leetfoo
08-06-2007, 09:32 AM
Forgive me if this has been asked before...
I've searched around a bit and I'm not finding any info on this.

I've seen many mentions that AC is going to support 720p resolution natively.
As one of the many PS3 owners with a 1080i TV (that does not suport 720p), I am often forced to play these supposed "next gen" games on my "next gen" system in last gen's resolution (480p). Sony blames the devs- and the devs blame Sony (and idiot fanboys blame the TV owners). In the meantime, we play our games in low def.

There have been software scaling SDKs released by Sony that have been used succesfully by many devs to give 1080i/p support to 720p games. If AC supports this, we'll all be able to play the game in hi def. Many 1080 users boycott the low def games altogether.

So.... has anyone heard anything regarding 1080i/p support for AC and/or scaling for the PS3?

For general info on the subject (for those interested), you can find a wealth of info here:
1080 issue on PS3. (http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=1543758#M1543758)

-Foo

P.S. I'm fully aware that if I bought a 360 or a brand new TV it wouldn't be an issue, but neither is an option for many people, so that kind of flame isn't going to help anything.

BikerBeast
08-06-2007, 02:03 PM
Just go download the latest update for your PS3 at there web site.

Leetfoo
08-06-2007, 02:14 PM
Just go download the latest update for your PS3 at there web site.

Uhm.. yeah... that doesn't actually tell me anything about AC's resolution support, and there is not an update to fix this issue globally on the ps3 as of yet... so... I have no idea what you are trying to say.

-Foo

katz_bg
08-06-2007, 02:57 PM
first off last-gen isn't 480p it's 480i. (p - progressive, i - interlaced. the PAL,NTSC and other analogue signals are all interlaced)
secondly why not try running the games at 720i instead of 720p if there is such a feature ?

personally i'm 150 euro away from a PS3, so i'll just have to wait.

Phreaky_McGeek
08-06-2007, 03:00 PM
There's been no official news of this sort, so you won't get a real answer until later. Don't be expecting an answer from the devs, either.

Leetfoo
08-06-2007, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by katz_bg:
first off last-gen isn't 480p it's 480i. (p - progressive, i - interlaced. the PAL,NTSC and other analogue signals are all interlaced)
secondly why not try running the games at 720i instead of 720p ?

Don't know about you, but my xbox1 and PS2 played many games in 480p... so to me, that's last gen, and it is definitely not high def (low def, enhanced def, you say tom-A-to I say tom-at-o.)

My TV does not support 720i... nor does the PS3... in fact I've never actually heard of anything that suports 720i...

My TV does support 1080i, which is what I'm hoping I'll eventually be able to play AC in. I'm wondering if the AC devs are aware of the issue (which affects many PS3 owners) and might implement scaling to help us out- or better yet, make the game 1080p native. (1080p native games can be played in any resolution).

You can learn everything you could need to know about the issue if you click the link in my first post.

-Foo

Leetfoo
08-06-2007, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Phreaky_McGeek:
There's been no official news of this sort, so you won't get a real answer until later. Don't be expecting an answer from the devs, either.

Well, there's the answer I was looking for (not the one I wanted perse), but an answer none the less.

So are the devs real tight lipped about the project? Is the best way to send them information via the ubisoft technical support contact form? I'd just like to know that they know about the issue.

Thanks!
-Foo

Lordgrunty11
08-06-2007, 03:28 PM
http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1552/Assassins-Creed/ this may be right or it may be wrong but its a good sign for you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

katz_bg
08-06-2007, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Leetfoo:

My TV does not support 720i... nor does the PS3... in fact I've never actually heard of anything that suports 720i...

-Foo To tell you the truth I don't really know if anyone ever bothered with 720i since p is more widespread, but in theory supporting 1080i and not supporting 720i is like having your winamp play 48KHz mp3s, when it doesn't want to play 44.1KHz ones.

Leetfoo
08-06-2007, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Lordgrunty11:
http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1552/Assassins-Creed/ this may be right or it may be wrong but its a good sign for you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If only I had a 360- the 360 scales universally, so every game plays in 1080i- so, that link doesn't apply to my situation (but thanks!). In other words, just because the xbox version supports 1080 doesn't mean the ps3 will.

The PS3 does not scale universally, so we have to beg and plead with the devs to take the time to support 1080 in their actual code (natively or via the scaling SDK). Wether Sony will ever address this universally or not has been up in the air since the PS3 release (seems unlikely)- so we are at the mercy of the devs to help us out.

Sony tells us it is the devs fault, and the devs tell us it is Sony's fault, and we're caught between.


Originally posted by katz_bg:
To tell you the truth I don't really know if anyone ever bothered with 720i since p is more widespread, but in theory supporting 1080i and not supporting 720i is like having your winamp play 48KHz mp3s, when it doesn't want to play 44.1KHz ones.


A bit off topic, but 720i doesn't exist because of the way everything fell historically. 1080i was the first spec, then years later they wanted to reduce the bandwidth required (and support progressive scan) so they developed 720p. At that point, making a 720i spec as well would have been a waste of time (worst of both worlds), so it never materialized.

-Foo

myuniquenick
08-07-2007, 06:46 AM
Leetfoo,

I mean this as a sincere question so please don't take it the wrong way. I don't understand why you consider this "problem" is the fault of either Sony or the devs.

Why isn't it your fault for not having the proper hardware? If the PS3 is supposed to be a next-gen HD games console then isn't it reasonable for Sony to expect that it will be used with a full HDTV?

My understanding of the technical requirements of PS3 games is that they must support at least 720p and optionally 1080i/1080p.

Don't all 1080p TVs also support 720p resolution? If that's right then anyone who uses the PS3 with a 1080p TV will always be able to experience the game in the highest supported resolution.

Leetfoo
08-07-2007, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by myuniquenick:
Leetfoo,

I mean this as a sincere question so please don't take it the wrong way. I don't understand why you consider this "problem" is the fault of either Sony or the devs.

Why isn't it your fault for not having the proper hardware? If the PS3 is supposed to be a next-gen HD games console then isn't it reasonable for Sony to expect that it will be used with a full HDTV?

My understanding of the technical requirements of PS3 games is that they must support at least 720p and optionally 1080i/1080p.

Don't all 1080p TVs also support 720p resolution? If that's right then anyone who uses the PS3 with a 1080p TV will always be able to experience the game in the highest supported resolution.

You aren't the first to see it that way. The reason it is Sony's problem, in my mind, is that every other piece of HD hardware ever supports scaling. I challenge you to find me a tuner, cable box, upconverting dvd player, hd dvd player, blu ray player, or any other HD device that does not support scaling. Amusing side fact- up until a few patches ago, the ps3 was also the only blu ray player to not scale 1080 down to 720.

So... this has never been an issue with anything... ever... until the PS3 came out. The large number of users with 1080i only TVs have never been affected by this issue before.

You also use the word "Full HD" as though that means something... and no, it is not reasonable for Sony to expect a certain TV be used with their system. They should have followed the path of every other HD device ever made and included scaling.

I'd rather not debate this here though, this is all kind of way off topic for this forum, though. If you are really interested, I've expounded upon it in great detail at the link in my first post- you'll find all this info and more there. My purpose here is to hopefully raise awareness here in the hopes that Ubisoft will address it on their end (since Sony has been silent on the issue since december).

-Foo

katz_bg
08-07-2007, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by myuniquenick:
Leetfoo,

Don't all 1080p TVs also support 720p resolution?

They do, but he has a 1080i TV that does not support 1080p.
1080p TVs are considerably a lot more expensive than the rest, which are also not available to the yearly budget of many. Especially in eastern Europe and Asia.

Leetfoo
10-22-2007, 09:07 AM
Been a few months... Any news on this? I sure hope AC will scale.. otherwise saying that the 360 and PS3 version are equal will be a lie.

-Foo

ParanoiD84
10-22-2007, 09:48 AM
Whats best to play 360 games on 720p or 1080i.

Leetfoo
10-22-2007, 09:56 AM
"Best" is always the native resolution of your TV. That's why every hd device ever made besides the PS3 has scaling. Your 360 should be set up to display your content in your TVs native resolution.
In other words, On a 720p TV, 720p will look better.... on a 1080i TV, 1080i will look better. Anyone who tells you otherwise just doesn't get it.

-Foo

TIMMYAAH
10-22-2007, 09:59 AM
I am not going to read all posts, but to the question:
Do you see the BIG Tvs which christoph and others played the AC demo on?
They are big as hell, so I think they will support 1080pi.

AirRon_2K7
10-22-2007, 10:03 AM
Dude, you so need to get rid of your sig with a naked man...

I reckon AC will probably support 1080i, maybe 1080p..

Leetfoo
10-22-2007, 10:16 AM
I reckon AC will probably support 1080i, maybe 1080p..


As far as the PS3 is concerned, the two are the same. You can't support one without the other. The ps3 internally creates a 1920*1080 picture, then displays it in either an interlaced or progressive format. That's why you'll never see a ps3 game that can display 1080i and not 1080p or vice versa.

Personally, I doubt AC will support even scaled 1080 (due either to programmer laziness or the fact that they don't know/understand the issue), but history has made me a pessimist on the issue.

-Foo

MASTEROVERLORD
10-27-2007, 12:47 AM
Anyone have any info yet about this? I would've just gotten the game for the 360, but it died again tonight for the second time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Now I'm stuck with playing the game on PS3 in 480p unless the game will support us 1080i users.



Off topic: Howdy Leetfoo. Funny seeing you were the one who started this thread after I did a "1080i" search. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I've posted in the 1080i support thread at the Playstation forums is how I know you.

katz_bg
10-27-2007, 06:52 AM
Speaking of 1080p again I believe there's a reason for AC to have a 1080p version of one of it's trailers. They probably thought they could pull it off. Let's hope they did.

anyway that really old news in the issue is outdated because of firmware updates that fixed it.

davo81
10-27-2007, 08:16 AM
Has anyone even bothered to go into a games store and look at the back cover of Assassin's creed? i did and it said "Features 720P high definition support" same on the 360 box too

MASTEROVERLORD
10-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by katz_bg:
anyway that really old news in the issue is outdated because of firmware updates that fixed it.


If you're talking about the 1080i issue with PS3 games...firmware updates didn't fix the problem with PS3 games. An update did however allow PS1/PS1 games to be upscaled. There's still no fix for the problem unless game developers specifically code the game for 1080i support.

MASTEROVERLORD
10-30-2007, 09:52 PM
1080i support? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

rahul911
10-31-2007, 12:09 AM
I've rea about a lot of ppl with this problem. But recent software update, plus SOny's devkits sent out should hopefully patch this up

Leetfoo
10-31-2007, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by rahul911:
I've rea about a lot of ppl with this problem. But recent software update, plus SOny's devkits sent out should hopefully patch this up

Yes, they released a newer SDK that allowed scaling, but the devs have to specifically use it- which most of them don't since they don't even know about the issue. Naughty Dog learned about the issue at the last minute and were able to incorporate scaling into Uncharted with very little work. Evan Wells later said he was embarassed they they didn't already know about the problem.
The real kick in the teeth is that Sony themselves keep releasing games that don't even use their scaling sdk, so pretty much any internally produced game they release is 480p for us.
There are a lot of us really hoping AC will scale (or better yet, be 1080p native).

If anyone cares to learn more, you can find a wealth of info at the link in my first post.

-Foo

Leetfoo
10-31-2007, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by davo81:
Has anyone even bothered to go into a games store and look at the back cover of Assassin's creed? i did and it said "Features 720P high definition support" same on the 360 box too

You cant trust the boxes- there are lots of 720p native PS3 games that will scale to 1080i, and lots that don't... but they all only say "720p" on the box.

-Foo

MASTEROVERLORD
11-03-2007, 12:37 PM
Bumping in hopes that someone may know the answer now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

MASTEROVERLORD
11-09-2007, 01:39 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


I'm thinking that a lack of a definite answer usually means that us 1080i users aren't gonna be happy.

simulacra
11-09-2007, 02:50 PM
Uhm, computer graphics have always been rendered progressive, it's up to the tv to interlace progressive material.
And also, there is no such thing as 720i, the HDtv standars only allow for 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

And from what I know, it's up the ps3 to scale the game to whatever res you can handle, just make sure that the resolution of 720p is not tacked in the settings menu and the ps3 should scale the game to the highest possible res, try untacking 280p aswell to really force your res of choice on the machine...

b-busher
11-09-2007, 02:59 PM
hmmmm......interesting... now what exactly those tacking mean...?

simulacra
11-09-2007, 04:09 PM
The little "v"-sign in the settings menu where you set the different res:es the display can handle...
there is a more correct word for it, but I've seem to have a brain lockout right now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

b-busher
11-09-2007, 04:12 PM
Thx BTW how come it says you have been a member since 2002 when they only started development in 2004?

MASTEROVERLORD
11-09-2007, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by simulacra:
And from what I know, it's up the ps3 to scale the game to whatever res you can handle, just make sure that the resolution of 720p is not tacked in the settings menu and the ps3 should scale the game to the highest possible res, try untacking 280p aswell to really force your res of choice on the machine...


The PS3 does NOT upscale PS3 games. Because of this, if a game is natively rendered at 720p only, the PS3 will default to 480p on a TV that only does 1080i and 480p/i. That's the problem we're having here. It's not like the 360 where it will scale the signal to whatever you want your TV to do by checking whatever resolution you want in the dashboard. Developers have to actually implement other resolutions in the game...and that's why the question is being asked. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

MASTEROVERLORD
11-09-2007, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by b-busher:
Thx BTW how come it says you have been a member since 2002 when they only started development in 2004?


Because this forum has been around before this game was ever announced and this section of ubi forums was even created. I registered here in 2004 when there were many problems with Prince of Persia: Warrior Within.

simulacra
11-09-2007, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by MASTEROVERLORD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by simulacra:
And from what I know, it's up the ps3 to scale the game to whatever res you can handle, just make sure that the resolution of 720p is not tacked in the settings menu and the ps3 should scale the game to the highest possible res, try untacking 280p aswell to really force your res of choice on the machine...


The PS3 does NOT upscale PS3 games. Because of this, if a game is natively rendered at 720p only, the PS3 will default to 480p on a TV that only does 1080i and 480p/i. That's the problem we're having here. It's not like the 360 where it will scale the signal to whatever you want your TV to do by checking whatever resolution you want in the dashboard. Developers have to actually implement other resolutions in the game...and that's why the question is being asked. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, sounds like you're in a very peculiar situation, your tv can handle 1080i but not 720p, is it a crt "HD"tv? Or some older backprojection model?

But what would happen if you unselect every other res than 1080i in your ps3 settings?

MASTEROVERLORD
11-09-2007, 07:42 PM
Well, I have 2 HDTV's. One is a 32" Samsung CRT bought in 2001 or 2002. The other is a 47" Panasonic rear projection TV bought in 2004. I have all resolutions unselected except 1080i. If I have 720p enabled, it shows no image at all when a game loads. It's not just me, it's everyone with 1080i only HDTV's.

MASTEROVERLORD
11-13-2007, 06:47 AM
Anyone have any info about this yet? I'm gonna pick mine up this afternoon and want to be sure before I buy it. I'm getting the 360 version for sure, but I'll pick it up on PS3 if it has 1080i support.

Katatonia.
11-13-2007, 08:31 AM
Well it looks like Ubisoft Tech Support answered the question AC on PS3 does support 1080i

http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/end...dp.php?p_faqid=12110 (http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=12110)

Leetfoo
11-13-2007, 08:44 AM
yay!

MASTEROVERLORD
11-13-2007, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Katatonia.:
Well it looks like Ubisoft Tech Support answered the question AC on PS3 does support 1080i

http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/end...dp.php?p_faqid=12110 (http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=12110)



Thanks for the link. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

simulacra
11-13-2007, 10:07 AM
Good for you, but I would like to advise you to get a fully digital tv/panel as soon as you can afford it, progressive scan really is the future, and crts have problems with those resolutions...

Leetfoo
11-13-2007, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by simulacra:
Good for you, but I would like to advise you to get a fully digital tv/panel as soon as you can afford it, progressive scan really is the future, and crts have problems with those resolutions...

My CRT is beautiful and has never given me an issue with any peice of hardware besides the PS3. Everything else I play or watch displays in 1080i without issue. I should throw it away why again?

simulacra
11-13-2007, 02:56 PM
Because all material will be progressive in a few years?
Bluray/HD-DVD is progressive, PS3/X360 games are progressive and most importantly, the quality of interlaced material is worse than progressive...

Leetfoo
11-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by simulacra:
Because all material will be progressive in a few years?
Bluray/HD-DVD is progressive, PS3/X360 games are progressive and most importantly, the quality of interlaced material is worse than progressive...

I'm sorry, but I believe you simply have no understanding of what you speak of. It's off topic and pointless anyway, so I'll just let it drop, and we'll agree to disagree on this one.

simulacra
11-13-2007, 04:26 PM
http://www.matthiasm.com/PAL2NTSC/interlaced.jpg

I WORK in this field, interlacing was important in the analogue CRT days, luckily, these days are gone.
No matter how "good" the interlaced material is, there will ALWAYS be tearing, like if compressed material wasn't suffering from artifacts as it is...