PDA

View Full Version : Can't shoot anything down?!



Martin_078
02-06-2005, 07:52 PM
Ok, I started a campaign as a USN pilot, on first mission as a patrol I encounter a zero fighter. He's at my six, so I wanna face him face to face by rolling left and pulling on the yoke, next thing I'm falling (flat spin I guess) into the water. I can't seem to get into the game for some reason.
I remember playing pacific strike and many other sims, but this one seems so different, is it just so much more realistic?
How do I know where to fly to? For now I use autopilot, when I hear someone say enemy I take control. And to stay on course to next waypoint I look up the mini map and fly along the white line. I feel I'm too primitive or something.

Martin_078
02-06-2005, 07:52 PM
Ok, I started a campaign as a USN pilot, on first mission as a patrol I encounter a zero fighter. He's at my six, so I wanna face him face to face by rolling left and pulling on the yoke, next thing I'm falling (flat spin I guess) into the water. I can't seem to get into the game for some reason.
I remember playing pacific strike and many other sims, but this one seems so different, is it just so much more realistic?
How do I know where to fly to? For now I use autopilot, when I hear someone say enemy I take control. And to stay on course to next waypoint I look up the mini map and fly along the white line. I feel I'm too primitive or something.

BSS_CUDA
02-06-2005, 08:24 PM
this flight sim is like no other,the flight models are the most accurate on the market. when I first came here from CFS2 it took me 2 hours of flying just to keep my plane in the air, keep with it you wont be disappointed

EnGaurde
02-06-2005, 08:27 PM
caress the controls like you would your favourite girl. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

dont yank them around like you would your... playstation controller.

Less, Is More.

each plane, despite the write offs by armchair critic micro managing pi to 80,000 place memorising ill-prove-you-wrong-if-it-takes-10,000-decimal-places-in-my-data-to-do-it whiner freaks has differences that must be remembered and followed.

a turning fight, where everyone goes round and round at nigh on stall speed, is not for every plane. ie a fw190 A9 cannot turn on its axis and should not be flown that way. With it, you must keep speed and altitude high, and if you cant get a clear shot zooming down on your frantic enemy, dont crash your plane trying. Keep going up in steep climbs, managing engine revs and temp (thru those keys you mapped out and wrote down in a reference card before you flew http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif) smoothly and continually until you get hits.

guns dont jam, so feel free to fire at any speed or G pull or in bursts.

always, keep speed in your optimum range for what your plane does. Below 250kmh for your Zero, over 400kmh for your FW / Mustang / Corsair etc.

likewise, dont dive a 1940 zero at biblical speeds after that 1944 thunderbolt.

if you are an SBD with a thousand pounder under your belly, you are a BUS ! You are NOT a fighter ! Weight is modelled in this game, and your plane will take longer to respond to control input.

pick a plane and fly it, note speeds and behaviour to stooging around trying different maneouvers out.

its not an arcade game, but takes only a moderate amount of effort to "get in to".

helps if you lurve things that fly.

and shoot other flying things. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

LEXX_Luthor
02-06-2005, 08:31 PM
You may wish to start out in QMB by flying SBD or D3A "Val" dive bombers in air combat against AI G4M "Betty" (not Flyable yet). Don't know if its correct, but these divebombers don't stall out. The later SBD has a normal gunsight, the early SBD and D3A have the telescope sight like Ki~43...hard to use in a dogfight.

If you need help with Quick Mission Builder, ask away.

Sad but true, probably no flight sim comes with a Trainer aircraft. Think of SBD as "T6 Texan." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Do you have rudder pedals? I started out with keyboard rudder and then used joystick throttle for rudder control. I was never successful in air combat. Then I got affordable 40$ racing pedals and *pow* right there I was able to start learning to shoot planes and stuff down and hitting ground targets....never could do even that before I got the racing pedals.

Wellcome to Forgotten Board

Martin_078
02-06-2005, 08:57 PM
My difficulty level has the seperate engine start, complex engine menagement and stalls and spins off rest is on.
Just curious on how the rest of you have it set up.

cwojackson
02-06-2005, 09:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martin_078:
My difficulty level has the seperate engine start, complex engine menagement and stalls and spins off rest is on.
Just curious on how the rest of you have it set up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>While you're just getting used to the game, you might want to consider putting yourself in full blown easy mode to start with then cranking in the realism as you become comfortable with the dynamics of the game.

BSS_CUDA
02-06-2005, 09:04 PM
full switch for me, most difficult settings, I like a challenge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I acctually think flying cockpit evens the playing field, no stupid little blue or red arrows telling your target your getting close http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

LEXX_Luthor
02-06-2005, 09:06 PM
What are your joystick settings in the game? That can make a plane either too sensitive or not enough sensitive to joystick movement.

Once you can get into the air and land okay, turn your Stalls and Spins on right now, unless you don't have a joystick and you fly with keyboard. Do NOT try to "get better" without the stalls and spins or you never will get better.

Basically, go QMB alone in the sky and practice your fighter until you KNOW personally how far you can push your plane in turning before it stalls.

Practice to learn how NOT to stall.

Basically, we are taking you out of the frontline combat zone and putting you through primary combat training. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F4U_Flyer
02-06-2005, 09:17 PM
Just like in RL you need to practice takeoffs , flying , aerobatics and landings to determine the planes capabilities before you go out to fight. then go after bombers of your own side in qmb to practice gunnery . Then you are ready to take on the ai in air to air combat. Then you can go online and find out how bad you really are! But practise makes you a killer in the skies after many meetings with the ground! Just have fun and always remember..... it's just a game!

Martin_078
02-06-2005, 09:22 PM
Thanks guys, now you might think I'm an idiot, what do you mean when you refer to "QMB" and "AI"?
DO you guys too use the mini map as a reference to where the next waypoint is and if you're on course?

F4U_Flyer
02-06-2005, 09:29 PM
Qmb is quick mission builder , it allows you to pick opponents or fly alone. Ai is the computer inteligence which is why the computer planes are pretty good. in qmb there are no waypoints , they only apply to missions and campaigns.I cant help on waypoints since i still don't know how to follow them when they are hidden on the map!I read somewhere there is a place in the insturments that shows direction but i dont remember where and cant find anything on my own. Little help from those in the know on this one?

F4U_Flyer
02-06-2005, 09:30 PM
edit: oops

cwojackson
02-06-2005, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martin_078:
Thanks guys, now you might think I'm an idiot, what do you mean when you refer to "QMB" and "AI"?
DO you guys too use the mini map as a reference to where the next waypoint is and if you're on course? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Quick Mission Builder...one of your main options. It allows you to set up your own scenario: selecting friendly and enemy aircraft, altitudes, type of mission, etc.

You can use it to set yourself up with some easy encourters. AI is nothing more then the artificial intelligence that operates all other aircraft, ships, AA, etc.

GoToAway
02-06-2005, 09:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martin_078:
My difficulty level has the seperate engine start, complex engine menagement and stalls and spins off rest is on.
Just curious on how the rest of you have it set up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>While you're just getting used to the game, you might want to consider putting yourself in full blown easy mode to start with then cranking in the realism as you become comfortable with the dynamics of the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I couldn't disagree more. Those are crutches. This is a flight simulation. The fastest way to improve your skills is through experience. Turning off stalls is only going to teach you how to fly the wrong way.

This isn't reality and you have absolutely nothing to lose by crashing. Failure is the fastest teacher.

John_Stag
02-06-2005, 09:56 PM
Yup. Treat your aircraft like you treat your woman; get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back.


Blackadder is the font of all wisdom; so much for PC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

actionhank1786
02-06-2005, 10:10 PM
Dont worry about doing Full Real and all that just yet. You can make your way to that eventually.
What you can do for now, is just set everything to a comfortable level, and start off with some easier planes (like the Il-2, Gladiator, other gentle planes) and get used to the dynamics of the game.
Then with the Quick Mission Builder, you can set up friendly planes to get used to Gunnery, then you can set up yourself to fight enemy bombers, set them to Empty if you dont want them shooting your plane up.
Then you can give their ammo back after a while, and eventually take on Computer controlled Fighters.
After a while, you'll be downing planes like you dont even know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Good luck

Ijnpilot
02-06-2005, 10:22 PM
The best planes for target practice are enemy C-47s. They are big, slow and can only evade a little bit. Plus you don't have to have the guilt trip of hearing mates screaming, turning the radio to enemy, or seeing negative scores after the mission. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
02-06-2005, 10:34 PM
Use enemy for targets but set them to Empty loadout. They can't shoot back. That's how I always practiced, never could bring myself to fire on a friendly plane...no matter what side I was practicing with. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EnGaurde
02-06-2005, 10:35 PM
most important, is to learn to shoot at where they will be not where they are.

on single player, with the Me323 powered glider set up with empty stores setting and rookie in the quick mission builder, set yourself up with a nose gun fighter like the La5 or any Yak, or indeed the Zero *kiss mmm who loves you baby* ctrl + F1 the cockpit away to the gunsight view, and practice longe range shooting at different approaches and speeds.

yes, flying is important, but bullets on target is essential and much much harder.

when you can nail all engines in one pass each, then you'll be set.

further to the gunnery idea,i was told by an ex navy gunner that a good way for a novice to start is by stitching a line of bullets across the moving target, rather than trying to "stack" each bullet on top of the last as it goes past.

that way you will likely get several bullets across the target relatively easily, as opposed to one or two if you tried to steadily aim.

in other words, take advantage of the repeating nature of the machine gun: pull the nose way ahead of the target using the rudder or even the elevator ie roll and pull, squeeze and hold, the guide the nose thru the target firing all the time.

I suggest light mgs only rather than twin 30mm cannon on the focke wulf purely for fast firing, good ballisticss and ammo supply / survivability of the target.

adjust till you see hits.

narrow the sweep band.

try, try and try again.

LEXX_Luthor
02-06-2005, 10:50 PM
The poster may have PF only

Empty B~29 might work.

papaboon
02-07-2005, 03:21 PM
Even though you may be starting out with the difficulty settings on easy. A pilot‚‚ā¨ôs vision is just as important as his guns. If you can't see the enemy, be d@ng sure he can see you! Keep your head on a shrivel; always keep looking around your field of vision.

Practice using the hat switch on your joystick. (If you don't have one, for God's sake, get one that does) Later on as you get more familiar with the game you will realize that you are scanning the skies in all directions without even knowing it, it will become second nature to you!

Good Luck!

VW-IceFire
02-07-2005, 06:06 PM
Its ok, the first time I took on flying in the old IL-2 demo I managed to spin stall the plane on the first major turn. I learned how to feel for the plane and I learned how to deal with the right amount of control input.

Takes a bit of time but its what really separates a average pilot from a good pilot (not a great one) is the ability to feel the plane and understand how much further you can and can't pull back on the stick, or push to a certain extreme. Once you feel this for one or two planes you start to get really good at it.

Give it time...use the QMB and start working on your scenarios.

cow9th
02-07-2005, 11:53 PM
i didnt manage to learn how to navigate or recover from stalls and so on till i joined a squad, it gets easier when you have a bunch of ppl on teamspeak telling you how to pull out of stalls and telling you where you are.
they can also oblige you by covering your 6 and in training flying straight and level for gunnery practice, try and get some games online with a TS server running, you will learn more than you will in months of playing offline, and have more fun.

dieg777
02-08-2005, 05:13 AM
for help see here http://www.airwarfare.com/ look under guides-
some helpful threads from the other forum
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=9181071422&p=1

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=4901007622&r=9131017622#9131017622

good luck

ClnlSandersLite
02-08-2005, 05:28 AM
Many will disagree with me here but:
For starters I HIGHLY reccomend that you just start with all the difficulty settings on the first page switched to on (the second page to tast). You will learn at the same rate either way. However, if you have to learn to fly and fight 50 times, it will take longer. This especially holds true when you have to unlearn bad habits. Assuming you're old enough, did you learn how to drive with limited difficulty settings? Also, did you immediatly jump into driving on the interstate? The answer to both of those questions, I hope, is no. Just approach this the same way. The only difference is that you won't die or have a huge bill if you do screw it up.

Honestly, altough not necessary, it's best if you have a friend who knows what they're doing so they can walk you through the basics (just like driving). Something I'd do, but some may feel no need to do in a sim, is take a close look at the basic physics of flight.

Since you can airstart, start in the air at first, this is the easiest part (as long as you don't push the aircraft too much). Learn what ALL the controls do. Some of them won't be usefull in a single seat fighter, like the crew positions, but all the rest are necessary.

Once you've got that down, try take offs, then landings, then (if you're so inclined) carrier landings. Dog fighting and aerobatics are basically out until you can do these tasks.

Once you are ready to start drilling on Basic Fighter Maneuvers, BFM, use the internet. You'll be able to find instructions on performing most of the BFMs using nothing but google.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yup. Treat your aircraft like you treat your woman; get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow, another black adder fan, kinda rare. At least here in the US.

Sir-Tiedeman
02-08-2005, 08:53 AM
take her to heaven and back.[/QUOTE]
Wow, another black adder fan, kinda rare. At least here in the US.[/QUOTE]



nothing is rare in the U.S



well, maby Oil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Spudinsky
02-08-2005, 03:16 PM
Concerning stalls, I found it helped a lot when I got myself a force feedback joystick (MS FF2). The stick simulates stall buffeting by vibrating, which warns you to ease off the turn a bit, before you go too far and stall.

It also took me a long time to get out of the habit of always trying to out turn the enemy, losing speed, diving to try to keep some speed up, running out of height, still desparately turning, running out of height even more, and finally getting shot down or crashing. It was a real joy when it finally clicked and I got the hang of "boom and zoom" (staying up high, wide turns to avoid losing speed, diving on the enemy and zooming back up high again).
By the way, although I've posted only a few times, I've been playing IL2 since the demo, but even so it's taken me years to really feel like I'm getting the hang of it.
So the message is - patience is a virtue!!