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StG2_Schlachter
07-05-2006, 09:22 AM
I just stumbled upon this fine example of American propaganda:

http://www.schrottgelacht.de/showcontent.php?cid=67

Your comments please http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 09:51 AM
Ha ha ha, I have a few of these. Disney made enough of them.

Propaganda is an interesting science.

Fritz

huggy87
07-05-2006, 10:25 AM
Yep. That's about right. Pretty accurate.

StG2_Schlachter
07-05-2006, 10:38 AM
Can I get those here in Germany? They are hilarious http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Airmail109
07-05-2006, 10:53 AM
The funny thing is, thats actually like my history lessons. Albeit heavily simplified.

joeap
07-05-2006, 12:16 PM
My favorite is "Donald Duck in Nutsiland" ... Donal Duck saying "Heil Hitler" in his voice... surreal.

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
Can I get those here in Germany? They are hilarious http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PT me. Perhaps I can send some to you.

Fritz

panther3485
07-05-2006, 12:24 PM
The most successful and effective propaganda always has elements of truth or factual content, which are then covered with layers of half-truth and distortion, topped off with a sprinkling of total bull$hit.

Some of our governments today are pretty good at it!


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by panther3485:
The most successful and effective propaganda always has elements of truth or factual content, which are then covered with layers of half-truth and distortion, topped off with a sprinkling of total bull$hit.

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

The above post is carefully planned propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

joeap
07-05-2006, 02:17 PM
Actually the Donald Duck cartoon was "Der Führer's Face"

Donald Duck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7-jEsNaPus&search=donald%20duck%20WWII)

Or this one Bugs Bunny, with a familar fellow to blue flyers, and one fellow familiar to red (and I mean RED) flyers.

Herr meets Hare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDlZPTM6GRY&search=bugs%20bunny%20goering)

They don't make propaganda like they used too, between Walt Disney, Leni Riefenstahl, and Sergei Eisenstein propaganda could be artistic and fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 02:55 PM
I've a couple of documentaries on Riefenstahl and I've yet to see where she made any propaganda supporting the Nazis other than what was made before the war. IIRC, the last one she did was the Nuernburg Address and that was in 37' or 38'. After that, she refused to do any further work for them even though Hitler practically begged her.

Tator_Totts
07-05-2006, 03:45 PM
War time all sides use propaganda.

Herr_Falke
07-05-2006, 04:53 PM
Theses types of posts always end up being 'locked' so I'll add my 2 cents before that happens.

"American propaganda"?

Where was the "propaganda?" Seemed pretty accurate to me. The who€s, what€s, where, whys and how€s of the "Hitler Youth" are pretty much historical fact and the film hits it pretty much right on the head, barring the humorous portions that were added to €œridicule€ the nazis.

It's not just the nazis. Similar indoctrinations of youths continue today in places like North Korea and some Middle Eastern countries and to those who don't believe it than I'd have to say you€re a bit naive.

james_ander
07-05-2006, 06:13 PM
Actually this cartoon is not propoganda, but is one of my favorites. It's a Warner Brother's cartoon about a guy with a frog that sings ragtime. I would love to find a link to that cartoon.

SkyChimp
07-05-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by james_ander:
Actually this cartoon is not propoganda, but is one of my favorites. It's a Warner Brother's cartoon about a guy with a frog that sings ragtime. I would love to find a link to that cartoon.

You mean the guy that finds the frog in a time capsule? LOL

-HH-Dubbo
07-05-2006, 08:07 PM
I love the portrait of Goebbels in the classroom

Aesuai
07-05-2006, 09:05 PM
Disney put out a treasures box that includes most of disney's war-time propeganda stuff called "On The Front Lines"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000BWVAH/qid=1152154...=UTF8&v=glance&n=130 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000BWVAH/qid=1152154906/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0517565-0828138?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130)
I think it's out of print, but I recently found a copy at my local "Fry's" electronic store.
It includes the very well done "Victory Through Air Power"
Pick it up if you get the chance! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

panther3485
07-05-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by panther3485:
The most successful and effective propaganda always has elements of truth or factual content, which are then covered with layers of half-truth and distortion, topped off with a sprinkling of total bull$hit.

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

The above post is carefully planned propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good to see you are up to your usual form, Fritz. I find it somehow..... warmly reassuring.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-05-2006, 10:01 PM
But.. I thought to be propaganda it had to contain some un-truths?

CornbreadPattie
07-05-2006, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Herr_Falke:

It's not just the nazis. Similar indoctrinations of youths continue today in places like North Korea and some Middle Eastern countries and to those who don't believe it than I'd have to say you€re a bit naive.

You can dutifully add the United States of America to that list. The citizens are now gears which have been tooled to turn a certain way. Especially in this time of "war." I wouldn't feel so bad about US propaganda influences, and other state lies if we weren't in a state of war right now.

huggy87
07-05-2006, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by CornbreadPattie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Herr_Falke:

It's not just the nazis. Similar indoctrinations of youths continue today in places like North Korea and some Middle Eastern countries and to those who don't believe it than I'd have to say you€re a bit naive.

You can dutifully add the United States of America to that list. The citizens are now gears which have been tooled to turn a certain way. Especially in this time of "war." I wouldn't feel so bad about US propaganda influences, and other state lies if we weren't in a state of war right now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The very fact that you have the ability to freely and without fear of retribution express that opinion is proof that we in the US are not "gears".

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by panther3485:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by panther3485:
The most successful and effective propaganda always has elements of truth or factual content, which are then covered with layers of half-truth and distortion, topped off with a sprinkling of total bull$hit.

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

The above post is carefully planned propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good to see you are up to your usual form, Fritz. I find it somehow..... warmly reassuring.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

joeap
07-06-2006, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I've a couple of documentaries on Riefenstahl and I've yet to see where she made any propaganda supporting the Nazis other than what was made before the war. IIRC, the last one she did was the Nuernburg Address and that was in 37' or 38'. After that, she refused to do any further work for them even though Hitler practically begged her.

I did not know that Fritz, still "Triumph of the Will" was great art and great propaganda. LIke Eisenstein's stuff, Saw "Ivan the Terrible" recently and loved it...can see why Stalin idolised the guy lol. Democratic propaganda is the most effective as it is so subtle and doesn't look like it (aformentioned cartoons excepted). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-06-2006, 05:48 AM
"Triumph of the Will" was made in 36' to glorify the 36' Olympics. There were no efforts to hide Germany's losses during the games. It was quite unbias as a matter of fact. It was later used by the Allies as propaganda. Maybe it can be thought of as anti-propaganda propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

What Leni did at the Nuernburg Address was nothing short of brilliant. She used a flag pole to hoist the camera slowly to give the audience the impression of just how grand the event was.

It's a shame that only those in the film industry appreciate her work. Either way, she did nothing for the war effort and refused to do anymore for the Nazis before the war started.

During the majority of the war she hung out in the Alps making movies. After the war, due to public percecution, she went underground. She only passed away a few years ago. She had been working making underwater footage. Nice stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

raaaid
07-06-2006, 08:02 AM
i think most banned cartoons like this one are brilliant

im still laughing at hitler as a medieval knight carrying the fat lady of germany, hilarant

PikeBishop
07-07-2006, 02:33 PM
Dear All,

Don't EVER kid yourselves......there is not a country in this world that will not attempt to silence ANYONE when they do not like what is being said. Democracy come out of the barrel of a gun I'm afraid.
Best regards,
SLP

OACWyo
07-07-2006, 03:48 PM
Hey-I've seen that a while back


I think it acually got banned from TV, now i have a copy of it on my computer

its pretty disturbing stuff

ploughman
07-07-2006, 04:00 PM
I thought "Triumph of the Will" was of the 1934 Nuremburg rally. Anyway, it was released in 1935.

Pirsch. The end of the 1st, 1977 Star Wars film is pure Leni, as is one bit of the Flash Gordon film from 1980ish that has Ming the Merciless' troopers descending the stairs just like the SS in "Triumph." It's a shame her skills were wasted on the Nazis, but how do you come back from a gig like that?

Tusseladden
07-07-2006, 05:20 PM
Anyone have the Popeye vs the Yamato? :P Also there is a bugs bunny vs the japanese. I saw them somewhere once, quite funny!

I'd love a link or two http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

panther3485
07-07-2006, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by PikeBishop:
Dear All,

Don't EVER kid yourselves......there is not a country in this world that will not attempt to silence ANYONE when they do not like what is being said. Democracy come out of the barrel of a gun I'm afraid.
Best regards,
SLP

So...... the levels of personal freedom, freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of speech etc are the same everywhere in the World, right? No differences?

HerrGraf
07-07-2006, 10:44 PM
PikeBiship, would you please inform me how many newspaper editors have been arrested, much less jailed for the crime of treason in the U.S.?

While many are talking about this being "1984", I have not seen any methodical sweeps to arrest those opposed to Pres. Bush. As unpopular as he currently is you would think that at the very least he would have the right wing armed militias out on every steet corner stopping the coming revolution!

To be sure there has been a real backslide on liberties over the last 30 years. The left is just as guilty of it as the right. However the Pres. has not done much of anything to attack those who have opposed him. (Yes, I hear that he is so dumb that he has others do everything for him [a Harvard graduate].)

I suppose that the left does not put out propaganda? They only try to tell everyone that it is the truth. They are on 100% propaganda all the time. Just listen to "Air America".

Propaganda is by definition "anything that tries to sway others to your point of view". Especially ridiculing those who oppose you.

fabianfred
07-08-2006, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
"Triumph of the Will" was made in 36' to glorify the 36' Olympics. There were no efforts to hide Germany's losses during the games. It was quite unbias as a matter of fact. It was later used by the Allies as propaganda. Maybe it can be thought of as anti-propaganda propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

What Leni did at the Nuernburg Address was nothing short of brilliant. She used a flag pole to hoist the camera slowly to give the audience the impression of just how grand the event was.

It's a shame that only those in the film industry appreciate her work. Either way, she did nothing for the war effort and refused to do anymore for the Nazis before the war started.

During the majority of the war she hung out in the Alps making movies. After the war, due to public percecution, she went underground. She only passed away a few years ago. She had been working making underwater footage. Nice stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

yes...I used to have a nice coffee table book of her underwater pics... called 'Coral Gardens"

PikeBishop
07-08-2006, 02:04 AM
Dear Herr Graf,

There are more ways than one to silence the opposition. If public opinion seems to still be in a leader's favour he will not act. The point is that there comes a point where action will be taken...all in the name of protection or public safety. Either by obvious arrest or by stealth....discreditation, humiliation, releasing dirt (or even arresting someone for tax evasion). I cannot speak for the USA but I do recall when Thatcher (right wing) passed a law on public disorder when trade unions struck. It stated that (amongst other things)you were only allowed to have a maximum of 6 people as a collective on the street at any time. This law was never repealed by Blair (Left wing) and is still in place to be used when necessary. What I am saying is that there will always come a point when the leaders will act and freedom will be removed simply because they can and will do it when it suits them......how do you think civil wars come about? When a large enough group of people say "No this is wrong" and the government try to force them. But it depends at what level it is at that will decide the method used. You are never entierly free and never will be despite what you are told and believe. (BTW I agree with your definition of propaganda)
Best regards,
SLP
P.S. Panther.....with regard to personal freedom...I don't think that even Sadaam Hussain bothered about what some villager in the countryside of Iraq was saying about him but was more concerned about what the BIGGER boys were saying with their guns shells and bombs. Because THEY had some power and support from other countries.

Pirschjaeger
07-08-2006, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
I thought "Triumph of the Will" was of the 1934 Nuremburg rally. Anyway, it was released in 1935.

Thanx for pointing that out. I was thinking of Olympia. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


Originally posted by Ploughman:

Pirsch. The end of the 1st, 1977 Star Wars film is pure Leni, as is one bit of the Flash Gordon film from 1980ish that has Ming the Merciless' troopers descending the stairs just like the SS in "Triumph." It's a shame her skills were wasted on the Nazis, but how do you come back from a gig like that?

It really is a shame. I haven't seen "Triumph of the Will" in it's entirety yet. I've been trying to find it but have had no luck. IIRC, it was made to inspire and also to celebrate Germany's coming back to power. Leni claimed she didn't know just how bad the Nazi's were before the war but in the same interview she said she refused to do anymore for Hitler. It seems she thought they were a little on the crazy side.

I have a 4 dvd set documentary on her that I feel could not have been more appropriately titled:

"The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl"

Fritz

Chuck_Older
07-08-2006, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
My favorite is "Donald Duck in Nutsiland" ... Donal Duck saying "Heil Hitler" in his voice... surreal.

It's actually called "Der Fuehrer's Face" but I can see how the stupid Politically Correct (redundant) climate could have had that changed. It's hard or impossible to find that cartoon today

~edit, never mind, you already knew

Pirschjaeger
07-08-2006, 06:20 AM
About two years ago a Chinese official was quoted as saying that "you can say anything you want in China,... as long as no one listens".

I've always thought that what he had said was very honest and interesting since it not only applies to China but also most of the world.

All too often we get on the subject of "freedom" but I never see anyone defining it. It always seems to go to "We have more freedom than you" discussions, a term used loosely. "My freedom is better than yours".

Do you guys ever stop to ponder the possibilities of varies sorts of freedom? I come from Canada and have lived in Egypt and Germany and currently live in China. I've seen different versions of freedom. I think freedom can not be difined with one definition. In China I enjoy a special sort of freedom you cannot get in a western nation.

At this point the hillbillies are already labelling me as a "pinko commi". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

In Canada and Germany I find a totally different sort of freedom from that of China. But I guess it depends on what your priorities are. I'll also point out that Germany has much more freedom than Canada or the USA in regards to being liberal. Germans complain (daily) they have too many rules. They should try living in Canada.

I've never seen a country with so many rules as Canada. Sure, you have freedom of speech and freedom of expression but if your priorities are other than giving opinions or expressing yourself, then Canada is not the place to be.

I know most can not understand what I am talking about since many of you have never lived abroad but those who have lived under various types of governments will understand me.

So, in short, those who love to defend "freedom of speech" as the ultimate freedom can continue doing what makes them happy. I will simply keep jumping around our little world, when and where ever I choose, and enjoying my idea of true freedom.

Ironic, I just exercised my freedom of speech to the group I wanted to and still have my own version of freedom besides that,.....all from pinko commi China.

Freeeeeeedoooooooommmmmm! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

ElAurens
07-08-2006, 09:13 AM
http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/kickme.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

heywooood
07-08-2006, 09:23 AM
..looks like a farmer, admiring a bumper crop of the damned...his scarecrow was the culprit.

"..some people without brains do an awful lot of talking...don't they?"

a lot of wasted lives every time one of them pops up...Kim and Ahmadinajad are sowing.

panther3485
07-08-2006, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by PikeBishop:
Dear Herr Graf,

There are more ways than one to silence the opposition. If public opinion seems to still be in a leader's favour he will not act. The point is that there comes a point where action will be taken...all in the name of protection or public safety. Either by obvious arrest or by stealth....discreditation, humiliation, releasing dirt (or even arresting someone for tax evasion). I cannot speak for the USA but I do recall when Thatcher (right wing) passed a law on public disorder when trade unions struck. It stated that (amongst other things)you were only allowed to have a maximum of 6 people as a collective on the street at any time. This law was never repealed by Blair (Left wing) and is still in place to be used when necessary. What I am saying is that there will always come a point when the leaders will act and freedom will be removed simply because they can and will do it when it suits them......how do you think civil wars come about? When a large enough group of people say "No this is wrong" and the government try to force them. But it depends at what level it is at that will decide the method used. You are never entierly free and never will be despite what you are told and believe. (BTW I agree with your definition of propaganda)
Best regards,
SLP
P.S. Panther.....with regard to personal freedom...I don't think that even Sadaam Hussain bothered about what some villager in the countryside of Iraq was saying about him but was more concerned about what the BIGGER boys were saying with their guns shells and bombs. Because THEY had some power and support from other countries.


Not too sure exactly what the situation would have been in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. You will also notice that I tried to cover a number of different kinds of freedoms, that might be used as indicators (not just freedom of speech).

You are right to say that all governments (or rather, those in power - not necessarily of a government), will take certain steps to silence, or restrict, or discredit their opposition. It is also fairly obvious that freedom will nowhere be 'complete' - whatever that means. Matters of freedom are more comparative than absolute, I feel.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that the degree of freedom varies signifcantly, depending on what part of the World you live in. Pirschjaeger has also alluded to different kinds (or concepts) of freedom and I think this is valid as well.

What is certainly clear to me is that there have been, and still are, some regimes in the World that are so oppressive, I can be truly thankful not to have lived/be living in them, compared to where I live now. Could where I live now be better? Sure it could, but it could also be a heck of a lot worse.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

joeap
07-08-2006, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
My favorite is "Donald Duck in Nutsiland" ... Donal Duck saying "Heil Hitler" in his voice... surreal.

It's actually called "Der Fuehrer's Face" but I can see how the stupid Politically Correct (redundant) climate could have had that changed. It's hard or impossible to find that cartoon today

~edit, never mind, you already knew </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup but as you saw, you CAN find it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Great post Fritz, you know apropos to freedom, if we expand to talk about human rights, I've never understood why the right to food, shelter and a decent health care always has to be opposed to free speech, freedom of worship (or not) etc. Man must have bread to live...yet Man cannot live on bread alone.*

*To any radical feminist etc., I am paraphrasing the poetic english translation of the bibilical phrase. I refuse to say personkind (non-gender, sexual orientation or speciesist) so buzz off.

Snuffy Smith
07-08-2006, 12:49 PM
"But.. I thought to be propaganda it had to contain some un-truths?"

No, not at all. Effective propaganda must avoid un-truths at all costs. It uses spin, characterization and truthiness to avoid un-truths to be effective.

[Truthiness is the quality by which a person comes to know something emotionally or instinctively, without regard to evidence or to what the person might conclude from intellectual examination.]

heywooood
07-08-2006, 01:08 PM
propaganda is a manipulation of the common perception of what is happening...not lies necessarily...it is most effective on the lazy.

Intelligent people are misled daily, if they are detached or distracted (alcohol, drugs, other entertainments aid the spinners)...diligent people, with a modicum of wit are more difficult to manipulate.

panther3485
07-08-2006, 10:55 PM
Curiosity compelled me to check my three newly acquired dictionaries (also, gotta justify the expense somehow!)

Dictionary definitions of propaganda :


Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th Edition, 2004:

(1) [ P- ] R.C.Ch. A committee of cardinals, the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith, in charge of the foreign missions.
(2) Any systematic, widespread dissemination or promotion of particular ideas, doctrines, practices, etc. to further one's own cause or to damage an opposing one.
(3) Ideas, doctrines, or allegations so spread; now often used disparagingly to connote deception or distortion.

Obviously, it's (2) and (3) in the Webster's that are relevant to us in this discussion.


New Oxford Dictionary of English, Second Edition, 2003:

(1) Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.
* The dissemination of such information as a political strategy.
(2) (Propaganda) A committee of cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church responsible for foreign missions, founded in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV.

Guess we're looking at (1) in the Oxford.


Macquarie Dictionary, Revised Third Edition, 2001:

(1) The systematic propagation of a given doctrine.
(2) The particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organisation or movement.
(3) Dissemination of ideas, information or rumour for the purpose of injuring or helping an institution, a cause or a person.
(4) Doctrines, arguments or facts spread by deliberate effort through any medium in order to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause.
(5) A public action or display aimed at furthering or hindering a cause.
(6) (College of) Propaganda - A congregation originally established as a committee of cardinals in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV, to supervise foreign missions and the training of the priests for them.

Suppose we can consider (1) through (5) in the Macquarie.


The other references in each dictionary (to the Roman Catholic Church) may give some hint as to origin of meaning?


Dictionary definitions aside, in common usage I believe most peoples' understanding of 'propaganda' in modern times would usually involve an intent to manipulate at least partly by deception, distortion or exaggeration. At its worst, this would include playing on existing fears and insecurities within a given population, as well as inflaming hatred to justify hostilities.


Best regards to all, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

P.S. - Above information presented to assist with definition of the word in modern usage. No inflammatory comments about religion, please!

Pirschjaeger
07-09-2006, 05:23 AM
Panther, I always enjoy your posts. Informative and indepth. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

You also pointed out, unknowingly, that Webster's is not so dependable; but then again, their definition might be propaganda. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Does CNN own Webster's? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I watched a movie the other night;"V for Vengence". Everytime I open this thread I think of that movie. While I was watching it I figured the writer took the situation in the US today, regarding propaganda and the public, and made it extreme, but in England.

Of course it's nothing to be taken seriously. It's simply a movie.

Last year I was in Hannover and visited the museum. They had an exhibit about propaganda, worldwide, both modern and historical. Some of it was shocking, another part thought provoking, and some was simply amazing.

One piece I found really interesting was a picture of soldiers helping a captured enemy soldier drink water. The photo looked so humanitarian. Then they showed the uncropped photo and infact it was one soldier holding the enemy, one soldier holding a gun to his head, and the other using water torture. It was all very clear. By simply cropping the photo it changed the message and content 100%.

Another was a famous photo of two coldwar leaders meeting in the USSR. Behind them was a huge crowd with signs of peace and welcome. Then they showed the real pic. All the signs were threats and discontent of the president's visit.

Propaganda is an evil art, but no less an art.

panther3485
07-09-2006, 06:16 AM
Yeah, Fritz. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Regarding the cropping (or 'enhancing') of photos to dramatically change the overall impression - yes, I've seen examples of that.

I've also seen tricks performed with news reports and press releases. Amazing how the deletion or insertion of just one word can change the whole meaning of a sentence, or even of a paragraph.

I agree that there is definitely an art to propaganda. Some of it is very clever and subtle stuff, some more 'sledgehammer' in nature - depending on the intended audience!


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

jamesdietz
07-09-2006, 10:24 AM
I've got a buddy Barrett Tillman ,aviation author,who is looking for the Disney wartime cartoon (s) about weather...does anyone have a clue about this & where it can be seen? Thanx!

WWMaxGunz
07-09-2006, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Tusseladden:
Anyone have the Popeye vs the Yamato? :P Also there is a bugs bunny vs the japanese. I saw them somewhere once, quite funny!

I'd love a link or two http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Popeye title is "You're a Sap, Mr. Jap" and is circulated.
Also look for "Blitz Wolf", IIRC Warner Bros.
I've got archives with those in them.

My favorites are the Three Stooges eps. In one they are sunk merchantmen who climb on a ship
and it's a Nazi raider. The salutes accompanied with "Hang Hitler!" kind of get to me, hehe.
But the best two they did don't mention Germany at all. The boys are picked by industrialists
to take the country over with their backing. The country is Moronia and when the boys got the
job they were hanging wallpaper. Moe did a very good Hitler.