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flyingscampi
12-02-2004, 06:31 AM
Just read this book and it was great reading!

It's a fictional account of a british Lancaster raid on the Ruhr told in documentary style.

Deighton has done some meticulous research to tell the story of the raid and it's effects from both the British and German points of view.

JG52-6High
12-02-2004, 10:05 AM
You might also want to read "Fighter" by Deighton, although more of a novel...

6

73GIAP_GSXR1000
12-02-2004, 11:20 AM
hi, i have the BBC radio book version and i can say it adds alot more feeling to it, although it does get a bit confusing because the germans dont have german accents

Woof603
12-02-2004, 02:04 PM
Try Deighton's "Good Bye, Mickey Mouse" about a pair of P51 pilots in WW2. Good read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Medvedya
12-12-2004, 05:47 PM
I remember when they broadcast the BBC adaptation, they played the episodes according to the time of day it was set. E.G, the first episode was put on in the early evening, when the Lancasters were still at Warley Fen, and so on, until the final episode, which was played at 3 in the morning when the (fortunate) Lancs would be coming back. I thought it was devastating, and would make a terrific film. It would be on a par with 'Stalingrad' for brutality though.

p1ngu666
12-12-2004, 07:18 PM
ive been readin alot of books on lanc/bomber command http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

pretty scary stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

altstiff
12-13-2004, 12:04 AM
I would describe Lens book "Fighter" more as a in depth documentuy.

Fantastic book.

Abbuzze
12-13-2004, 02:32 AM
Very nice book, I read it in german.
Some faults but a great story.
No german nightfighterpilot would aim at the belly if the target is a full loaded Lanc! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AFJ_Skyghost
12-13-2004, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Woof603:
Try Deighton's "Good Bye, Mickey Mouse" about a pair of P51 pilots in WW2. Good read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is a great book, with lots of important issues of the war, like the relations beyween the americans and the british population or the human side of the pilots. A great book indeed

73GIAP_Milan
12-13-2004, 01:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFJ_Skyghost:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Woof603:
Try Deighton's "Good Bye, Mickey Mouse" about a pair of P51 pilots in WW2. Good read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is a great book, with lots of important issues of the war, like the relations beyween the americans and the british population or the human side of the pilots. A great book indeed <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree on that, it's one of the best books i have in my collection, written in a realistic way although, i find it a bit weak on how all the flying action is described.
Still it's a good read, and i'll be reading it many more times before i head off to Jaffa http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif the big glass mountain..

NorrisMcWhirter
12-13-2004, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Abbuzze:
Very nice book, I read it in german.
Some faults but a great story.
No german nightfighterpilot would aim at the belly if the target is a full loaded Lanc! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

I've not read the book so I don't know what Deighton described but German nightfighters did use a tactic called 'Schr├┬Ąge Musik (slanting music)' where they did just this...firing a cannon into unprotected belly of bombers.

I read about in while flicking through a book in Waterstones the other day..I think it was 'Luftwaffe Aces and their tactics'

See: http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/general/tactics/nightfighting/schraege.html


Cheers,
Norris

falling-bird
12-13-2004, 03:44 PM
BOMBER BBC adaption of Len Deighton's book. Very involving especially when heard over the proper timescale.

Available at BBC Shop <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/0563523557&bklist=icat,5,,7,417,6065</pre>

Not sure if I've got that link working http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/0563523557&bklist=icat,5,,7,417,6065

Oh, just Google BBC+bomber and get the online BBC shop site.

Good Luck and I wish I was going with you.

flyingscampi
12-13-2004, 03:55 PM
That looks tempting - is the German dialogue handled well?

Medvedya
12-13-2004, 04:09 PM
Well, thankfully nobody tried to put on a Von Klinkerhoven accent, so I'd say so.

flyingscampi
12-13-2004, 04:21 PM
Phew

Medvedya
12-13-2004, 04:28 PM
I'd say to get the maximum effect, listen to it on a long motorway journey at night. Brrr!

Waldo.Pepper
12-14-2004, 02:27 AM
Shrage Misik (Jazz Music - Not slanted)

Yes it pointed up (30 degrees)... but that does not mean that they fired into the bombay. Often their aimpoint was the wings (where the fuel tanks are/were).

Two reasons - it is safer, and more effective. Also if you believe that a Luftwaffe pilot could be chivalrous (and some were). it gave the RAF crews a better chaince of bailing out.

There are several excellent books on the subject.

NorrisMcWhirter
12-14-2004, 06:18 AM
Hi,

From the sounds of it, I don't think it's possible to say that they wouldn't have fired into the bomb bay bomber; it wouldn't have been that precise to hit a dark target (even a big one) moving around above you. I don't disagree that it would it unadvisable to shoot the bomb bay but I imagine that just hitting the opponent would have been the basic objective.

And yes, it is jazz music which is also known as slanting music.

Cheers,
Norris

Abbuzze
12-14-2004, 06:39 AM
Cause of the missing ballturret RAF Bomber didnÔ┬┤t saw the nightfighters, so they had a lot time to aim. No of them would volunteery risk a explosion of the bombload, if you are close to your target...
Beside the Lanc was the worst bomber in the RAF to bail out if it was hit... only 7% of the crew survived... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

p1ngu666
12-14-2004, 06:43 AM
lancs carried 14,000lbs of bombs normaly. would include a 4000lb cookie and iceduries, aswell as iron bombs, good chance ull be hit by that..

as for the vunrablity of the underside due to no guns, its partly true. some had guns there, also the rear turret was rather good...
90 degrees + side to side, 60 up, and 45 down. packed with 4 303 (4800 rounds a minute) and some vast amount of ammo.

but its harder to see a aircraft against the ground at night, and it would take longer to get in position todo the slanting music

front turret could also drop down to 45 degrees http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SkyPiggies
12-14-2004, 07:32 AM
The Schr├┬Ąge Musik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%E4ge_Musik) thing was a mystery to British airmen for a long time, because bombers would just blow up at random for apparently no reason

AFJ_Skyghost
12-14-2004, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medvedya:
Well, thankfully nobody tried to put on a Von Klinkerhoven accent, so I'd say so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sit down Helga. Take your clothes off. Where is the Modonna of the big bubbies?? ...

Allo,Allo now that was a funny tv show, do you guys remember the french police who was a aenglish spy?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Medvedya
12-14-2004, 03:30 PM
You mean Crabtree - as in "Good moaning, I have a massage for Rene...."