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Zapages
05-03-2006, 03:06 PM
I was browsing around and found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassassin

I was wondering is this the basis of the storyline for the upcoming game... Its very interesting history that I never knew about as they went after both parties of the Crusades.

-Zapges

Yog1243
05-03-2006, 03:59 PM
I think that it could be in fact partly based on it. It appears that the Assassinas are Islamic ,because they in the trailer are killing Crusaders though. I think that they might also be killing like in the Wiki. article about selected targeting.

The game will be based in two Crusader cities of Jerusalem and Damascus. There will probably be other cities in this game that it will be based in.

My guess is that the Assassian is for hire ,and whatever he can get the most loot from killing a person he will go for it. I have a feeling that he or she will kill enemies on both sides ,or that you can choose the side you want to be on.

The meaning of the word Creed is of interest too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creed

I have a feeling that the Assassian is like a secret order ,and that are rules and stuff that the Assassians follow. The main rule is probably, "Do what is right no matter what" or something like that.

knife_X
05-03-2006, 04:12 PM
well so the game is based upon real history, many games are. But this info is more then I really needed but good find http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and get a life lol

princeofyo
05-03-2006, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Yog1243:
I think that it could be in fact partly based on it. It appears that the Assassinas are Islamic ,because they in the trailer are killing Crusaders though. I think that they might also be killing like in the Wiki. article about selected targeting.

The game will be based in two Crusader cities of Jerusalem and Damascus. There will probably be other cities in this game that it will be based in.

My guess is that the Assassian is for hire ,and whatever he can get the most loot from killing a person he will go for it. I have a feeling that he or she will kill enemies on both sides ,or that you can choose the side you want to be on.

The meaning of the word Creed is of interest too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creed

I have a feeling that the Assassian is like a secret order ,and that are rules and stuff that the Assassians follow. The main rule is probably, "Do what is right no matter what" or something like that.

Hmm I don't think they assassinate for money. I think that their goal is to end the cruasades by killing off head generals of both armies and whatnot.

Since Creed is a religous belief I think the assassin's are killing for a better cause then just for cash...

FireEmpress
05-03-2006, 11:45 PM
yeah but, why have they formed their...err, cult?
What is the reason behind it

UnDead_Knight1
05-04-2006, 02:07 AM
I agree with princeofyo, they propably just want the war to be over, propably their main reason for forming their association

capteenix
05-04-2006, 08:49 AM
Their Dark Brotherhood from Elder Scrolls IV: oblivion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif very same...

DarK_PhoeniX_22
05-05-2006, 10:50 AM
or the brotherhood in thief games

Zapages
05-05-2006, 05:35 PM
Check Penny-arcade out:


I've read things recently to the contrary on some of the particulars, but the etymology of Assassin is entered in Merriam-Webster as (essentially) Muslim Terrorists, and before I read the press release carefully I didn't know if Ubisoft had gone crazy or had balls of steel or what, but a game where - through through a combination of cleverness, physical culture, and brutality - you dispatch the agents of The West (proper noun) seemed like what you might call an odd market proposition.

Politicians really need no help homing in on the aspects of the medium that will get them the most play. Imagine a placard like this on the floor of the House:

September 11th, 1191?
to see what message they might take from such a game. A closer, which is to say complete and entire, reading of the press document reveals that you play as a representative of some ahistorical "third party" in the Crusades dedicated to the Holy City of Jerusalem itself, in the way that "The (ahem) Brotherhood Of The Cruciform Sword" of Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade fame is dedicated to the preservation of the Grail.

I can connect any topic to Indiana Jones. I'm great at parties.

(CW)TB out.

Interesting thoughts for sure...

Source: http://www.penny-arcade.com/

Taurevanime
05-05-2006, 07:32 PM
From what you read of the wiki article the assassins mainly focused on killing highly placed sunni muslims. And only two Christian deaths are accounted to them, one of which was likely paid for by another Christian. Heck they even showed the (reputably) greatest muslim general wouldn't be safe from them.

And from what I've heard at the point where they were crumbling apart, many assassins tried to convert to Christianity at one point or another. But that would be half a century after the game.

I think the game will draw heavilly upon this for it's inspiration but won't base itself upon it. Judging from what I've seen so far the assassins might be both Muslim and Christian, or they might even be Jews, I think whatever religion(s) they follow is going to be a minor point of the game.

I doubt Ubisoft would like to tick anyone off with it's games, so it'll be as politically correct as murdering people can be.

Nbrez911
05-05-2006, 07:48 PM
click here if you want to find out some history of assassins, especially in the crusades (http://lexicorient.com/e.o/assassins.htm)

Stormin_Mormon
05-07-2006, 03:42 PM
hm. I thought i had read somewhere that Shakespeare had coined the word. I'll have to go do some research on that.

Yog1243
05-07-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by FireEmpress:
yeah but, why have they formed their...err, cult?
What is the reason behind it I been thinking ,and I think the reason that they formed their cult is that both sides want the holy land as theirs. They want to assinate generals from the Crusader sides in order for them to retreat ,and they probably want to kill fellow Islamic generals is due to the fact they want the war to end on both sides.

If they killed on both sides it would demoralize both sides enongh they hoped to stop fighting. The assassians I belive will favor one side over the other in the game depending on the events and such through the game.

The assassians might not like how Saladin was in control of Jerusalem at the time ,and how often the city is being swiched form one side to another very often. Durning the time of this game Muslims controled Jerusalem.

ShadowBurne
05-08-2006, 10:13 PM
I really must clarify...the creed is not a cult its an organization "hell-bent" on saving the holy land...well liberating it at the very least, from the oppression of both Saladin and the Crusaders. I saw a number of soldiers in the trailers and I'm pretty sure I saw the emblam of the Knights Templar in some of the scenes, and I can kind of gather that Altair is probably given objectives every now and then to take out key targets, other than Generals or Warlords, but maybe even political members or even leaders of smaller groups that work with either Saladin's forces or the Knights Templar, and those Knights did a fair bit of corruption during the Crusades. These Holy Wars were directed by the Pope to free the Holy Land from the Muslims, but after a while when the Knights kept losing and gaining ground against the Muslims, it eventually turned into a war for land and wealth and the religious purpose was eventually watered down by their greed. So to speak...

AssassinsCreed
05-12-2006, 04:11 PM
I don't have any previous knowledge about these assassins so I'll leave that aside for now.

I can see there's some misconception about the actual context of the game, which is the third crusade. I'm sure you guys are aware the overall goal of this assassin 'Altair' is to 'stop' the 'third crusade from happening' or what I think Jade meant is to stop it from 'succeeding'.

So what is the third crusade? Who is really responsible for it?

Let's go back to history-

Muslim leader Saladin (the Sultan of Egypt & Syria) advanced to Jerusalem from Damascus with a vast army in response to the ongoing massacre of innocent Muslims. The templar knights who were mainly responsible for the gruesome killings of Muslims also attacked Saladin's caravans, most likely to provoke Saladin into war. [I'll skip history a bit...] He killed the templars in war, then he fought Balian [defender of Jerusalem] who denied the city to be taken by force. After negotiations Balian agreed to surrender Jerusalem in return for the lives of innocent inhabitants which included Christians and Jews, and Saladin kept his word despite knowing crusaders mass-murdered innocent Muslims when they occupied the city.

The THIRD crusade started as Richard I the "Lionheart" (King of England) came to retake Jerusalem, but after years of battle he failed. However he invaded a nearby town 'Acre' and took Muslim inhabitants captive. In return for their lives he demanded Saladin for the surrender of Acre, which Saladin denied. Before setting out for another town 'Jaffa', Richard killed the Muslim captives because he 'felt' that Saladin was not honoring the terms of Acre's surrender.

Even though Richard was successful on those battles, he failed to defeat Saladin which ultimately brought an end to the third crusade.

On September 2, 1192, Richard and Saladin finalised a treaty by which Jerusalem would remain under Muslim control, but also allowed unarmed Christian pilgrims to visit the city. Richard departed the Holy Land on October 9. Richard praised Saladin as being a benevolent ruler, as being both just and wise.

Here's a bit more aftermath from Wikipedia:

Richard was captured by Duke Leopold, his pride having been wounded when Richard tore his standard from the walls of the Acre, and who, more seriously, suspected him of murdering his cousin Conrad of Montferrat. It took a ransom of one hundred fifty thousand marks for Richard to be released. Richard returned to England in 1194 and died of an arrow wound in 1199 at the age of 42.

Shortly after Richard's departure, Saladin died, leaving behind only one piece of gold and forty-seven pieces of silver; he had given the rest away to his poor subjects.


As history suggests-

Were the crusaders ruthless? The 2nd crusade was, as far as I'm concerned.

Was Saladin an oppressor? No.

Was the third crusade successful? No.

Were there really any assassins? There must have been, but I don't know anything about their involvement in the third crusade to actually 'stop' it. Jade Raymond said the team had to do a lot of research, so I guess I'll do the same.

The third crusade was basically an attempt by King Richard to retake Jerusalem, but in fact he never came close to it. However he did take over nearby towns as I explained earlier. So this was 'third crusade' already in progression, so how were the assassins supposed to stop it? It would make sense if assassinations take place during the war, in the other towns that Richard occupied but not Jerusalem itself. So this means the crusaders are obviously Richard's army, the guards are those occupying the towns, the captives are innocent Muslim inhabitants, the Arabs supposedly assassinated must also have some link with the crusaders.

In the game's trailer they showed the crusaders hanging people who appeared to be Arabs/Muslims, most likely civillians. The developer said the assassin killed people on both sides, meaning Arabs also, who I feel were the 'traitors'. Saladin had executed 'Shawar' the former sultan of Egypt who had treacherous alliances with the Christian forces. Now, I'm not sure what method was used in his execution (whether it was even an execution or an assassination), but what I understand is there must have been more Arabs involved who were assassinated due to alliance with the crusaders.

I hope this clarifies some confusion and also raise questions. The storyline of this game is already so sophisticated and intense, I can't wait to get my hands on it!

tlemcani
05-12-2006, 07:00 PM
Hello Zapages , long time no see.
Actually the hashashine were the disciples of the Ismailite Sect ( One of the Sects of the Shiite branch of islam ). The assasins`sect was founded by Hassan Al Sabbah. His story is related in Samarcande (Amin Maalouf), Alamut (Vladimir Bartol) and Le Vieux de la Montagne ( Freidoune Sahebjam ).

One thing though their assinations were not specifically targeting crusaders, they also went after several sunni scholars as well as ottoman officials and so on.


They are however rumored to have been behind cover assasinations as well as infiltration methods.

godman00
05-12-2006, 08:24 PM
I recently read a great article about the Assassins in Military Heritage magazine. I'm not sure if you can still find it online, but this is the site of the guy who wrote it.
WWW.MARKLONGO.COM (http://WWW.MARKLONGO.COM)
Page down through his Historical Writing section to the article entitled "Blood in the Sand: The Rise and Fall of the Assassins." If you can get your hands on a back issue of the magazine, or perhaps find it online, I highly recommend it.

s137846
05-12-2006, 09:32 PM
Not to get off topic, but I see that there are a lot of fellow pop fans on this forum. I can see why.

This should be an awesome game. Another middle eastern setting with another super algile middle eastern person (assuming the assassins were in fact the islamics that wanted to stop the 3rd crusade). I've got to ask, are middle easterns really so quick and ninja-ish, or does Ubi just have a fetish for making quick and ninja-ish middle eastern characters?

I've got to ask,

kredmond14
01-21-2007, 03:21 PM
Their motto is actually: nothing is real, everything is allowed. Said by Hassan, their leader.


Originally posted by Yog1243:
I think that it could be in fact partly based on it. It appears that the Assassinas are Islamic ,because they in the trailer are killing Crusaders though. I think that they might also be killing like in the Wiki. article about selected targeting.

The game will be based in two Crusader cities of Jerusalem and Damascus. There will probably be other cities in this game that it will be based in.

My guess is that the Assassian is for hire ,and whatever he can get the most loot from killing a person he will go for it. I have a feeling that he or she will kill enemies on both sides ,or that you can choose the side you want to be on.

The meaning of the word Creed is of interest too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creed

I have a feeling that the Assassian is like a secret order ,and that are rules and stuff that the Assassians follow. The main rule is probably, "Do what is right no matter what" or something like that.