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raaaid
11-08-2005, 11:21 AM
this idea came after an experiment trying to improve the rotation speed of my yoyo:

i thought that increasing the radius of the axle of the yoyo,its thickness,i would increase the rotation speed but it turn out to decrease the rotational speed caused by gravity in the yoyo

the yoyo increasing the radius of the axle decreases the rotational speed

but put it the other way around, halving the radius of the axle you double the rotational speed of it and double the time it takes to fall down the same distance, is like if time become energy

you can half the radius for ever doubling the rotational speed forever and doubling the time it takes to fall the same distance infinitly

take a 1 ton yoyo that falls down 1 meter with an axle thicknes of 1 micrometer but when is recovered it winds in an axle of 10 cm

wouldnt it end up higher than it started?

by the way did you know that a looping yoyo behaves like a mechanical vortex, it flips(reverses) just as fluids do

x6BL_Brando
11-08-2005, 12:04 PM
Taken from a tangential view - if it's safe to do that without risking a major rupture in the space-time continuum - I'd like to ask if you feel these calculations are safer to consider than flying a fully-loaded Beaufighter at wave-top height across the Mare Serenitatis?

Depending on the answer, do you think that Ubisoft should be issuing a free lifejacket to every purchaser of BoB, or yo-yo's? Answers on the back of a cigarette packet please!

major_setback
11-08-2005, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:


Taken from a tangential view - if it's safe to do that without risking a major rupture in the space-time continuum ....



It won't rupture! The spatial-temporal constant is in fact suprisingly robust.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif



<span class="ev_code_GREY">.</span>

BanaBob
11-08-2005, 12:28 PM
Either you are a genius or you've injested way too much Tetrahydrocannabinol. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Professor_06
11-08-2005, 01:38 PM
Its true. My Yoyo made out of remnants of a black hole and uses inverted chromium muffler bearings in its 2 micron axel and spins at the speed of light. I am thereby able to move forward in time.

x6BL_Brando
11-08-2005, 02:10 PM
I am thereby able to move forward in time

OK, so no lifejackets then? Just some spare string? That's good to know.

*Thinks - here's a real money-spinner, and a really good marketing-strategy.......specialist string-makers, listen up!

"Tired of getting lost in another dimension? Use Minotaur brand self-rolling string-balls to guide you back from the deepest reaches of null-space! Impervious to force-fields, gravimetric shear and even Klingon blood-wine - this is the yarn that everyone is talking about!

Every standard pack carries enough to take you into the 30th Century - while the de-luxe version holds that - plus enough to replace the yo-yo string AND a spare set of axle bearings. And a very big magnifying-glass.

Don't accept any old rope! Only buy genuine Minotaur temporal-connectivity products - you know it makes sense.

Also available in red, blue & green cold-cathode flavours."

Oooh yesss! Imagine the slogan. "I want the world - and I want it then!" I can see it now - or maybe next Wednesday. Spliffing!

Ritter_Cuda
11-08-2005, 02:46 PM
it's called a fly wheel. big mass rotating does not want to stop quickly. but it is far from free.
Cuda

jds1978
11-08-2005, 03:10 PM
ok..granted my last physics class was close to 15 years ago, but..."Energy cannot be created or destroyed"...correct?

doesn't that sort of shoot down the idea of "free energy"? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Waldo.Pepper
11-08-2005, 03:25 PM
Tuuuuuuuulllllyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Zeus-cat
11-08-2005, 04:24 PM
"...caused by gravity in the yoyo."

That's a new one!

Zeus-cat

Speedfellow
11-08-2005, 04:48 PM
MMMM thats a tricky one all I know is BEER>11pints=increase in gravitational force

Zeus-cat
11-08-2005, 05:16 PM
All your "ideas" seem to involve doing something one way for half a cycle, and then making a substition of one of the major parts and "capturing" the free energy during the other half of the cycle.

Why don't you sit down and actually do the math calculations for both halves of your yo-yo cycle. I am certain you will find that it doesn't really work. If you find it does work, ask yourself what did I overlook? Keep asking that last question until you have eliminated every possible thing. That's how a real thought experiment is carried out.

Zeus-cat

LEBillfish
11-08-2005, 06:05 PM
I tried your idea raaid....yet when the yo-yo came back it hit me in the head and knocked me out.....fortunately I remained in the same dimension........There are 12 headed dragon plant like jelly-bean birds in this dimension....right?

Oh wait never mind....just an acid flashback....Back to yo-yo's.

Treetop64
11-08-2005, 06:08 PM
Guys...

How do you spell "C-R-A-C-K P-O-T"?

Just wonderin'...

x6BL_Brando
11-08-2005, 06:17 PM
So it takes a one-ton yoyo to take you down, Billfish?

We'll file that for future reference http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

x6BL_Brando
11-08-2005, 06:35 PM
Stop press announcement: Minotaur are proud to announce their latest discovery - VOID!!!

An add-on to the temporal connectivity string package - these two items will transform your kit into a temporal telephone.....perfect for keeping in touch with your loved ones while visiting your great-great-great grandchildren.

Looking for all the world like a pair of empty dog-food cans, these specially chromed 'cans' are easily fastened using a knot. Anyone having difficulty is recommended to read my latest book, Temporal String Theory and my Grannie, published (and maybe written )by Penguin - only 72.50.

So remember - don't go into the Void without your VOID!

Treetop64
11-08-2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Stop press announcement: Minotaur are proud to announce their latest discovery - VOID!!!

An add-on to the temporal connectivity string package - these two items will transform your kit into a temporal telephone.....perfect for keeping in touch with your loved ones while visiting your great-great-great grandchildren.

Looking for all the world like a pair of empty dog-food cans, these specially chromed 'cans' are easily fastened using a knot. Anyone having difficulty is recommended to read my latest book, Temporal String Theory and my Grannie, published (and maybe written )by Penguin - only 72.50.

So remember - don't go into the Void without your VOID!

WOW!! How do I get one?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Tully__
11-08-2005, 06:38 PM
Raaaid, get yourself a high shutter speed vid camera capable of recording extreme slow motion frame rates and a good chronograph. Measure the rotational speed (in degrees per second, radians per second or revolutions per minute, any will do) of the yo-yo after an drop from standstill with each diameter of spindle. Then come back here with your suggestions of possible causes for any significant differences you might observe between one radius and a thicker or thinner radius.

Chuck_Older
11-08-2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
take a 1 ton yoyo that falls down 1 meter with an axle thicknes of 1 micrometer but when is recovered it winds in an axle of 10 cm

wouldnt it end up higher than it started?


No.

You are asking it to accelerate against gravity with no addition of energy after it stops falling. It has the kinetic energy of the fall, but it spends that energy pulling itself back up and winding the string or cable or what have you. So as it spends energy, it goes slower. It's weight does not decrease as it goes back up, actually, with the addition of string or cable on the axle, the weight effectively should increase. It will not go farther up than it does down.

Plus- and this is a show-stopper- if the string is 5 meters long, that's the maximum it can possible travel down or up. If the yoyo went to the end of travel, which is 5 meters, it can go back up a maximum of 5 meters. You must admit more cable or string length somehow after the fall, even if you could store more energy in the yoyo somehow, to allow it to travel further up than down. So, the big question now is How? And even bigger- how can you anchor this yoyo engine to harness the power, when it must forever grow taller and taller to make the energy? The theory on that one is problematic

If you had some type of cable that stretches, and so provides a type of energy in addition to the fall, you have a different set of problems. Consider that the cable that strecthed now has to expend it's energy while winding up- but the cable is also trying to expand radially (as it contracts), and this will cause a lot of friction as the cable moves against itself, as the cable will not contract all at once. So your energy is lost as the cable rubs itself and also tries to occupy the exact same space that say a .5 metter thick cable took up, but now it's contrating linearly and expanding radially, so now a .6 meter thich cable tries to occupy the same space as the cable did when it was .5 meters thick

Holy ****, I guess I did learn something in college. My mom will be so proud. All that at least sounds good http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


At least that's my take on it, and I still don't subscribe to the theory of Free Energy, at least on terrestrial Earth.

But I gotta give you an A for effort Raaaid, you keep on thinking up new things

Treetop64
11-08-2005, 06:41 PM
Tully, they're right about you: you are too nice!

Dude, I stopped taking raaaid seriously a loooong time ago...

Freelancer-1
11-08-2005, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Professor_06:
Its true. My Yoyo made out of remnants of a black hole and uses inverted chromium muffler bearings in its 2 micron axel and spins at the speed of light. I am thereby able to move forward in time.

Really, Professor_06, you don't need all that to move forward in time.

Here's an example:

Count slowly to ten.

There you go. You just traveled forward in time by ten seconds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers

Tully__
11-08-2005, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Tully, they're right about you: you are too nice!

Dude, I stopped taking raaaid seriously a loooong time ago...
Raaaid's ok, he just has a little trouble accounting for all forces in an energy equation and let's his eagerness for the possibilities overcome a methodical analysis. Given a patient explanation he usually understands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dew-Claw
11-09-2005, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by Professor_06:
Its true. My Yoyo made out of remnants of a black hole and uses inverted chromium muffler bearings in its 2 micron axel and spins at the speed of light. I am thereby able to move forward in time.

That explains so much...
The bearings in mine burnt out and I've been stuck in 1983 ever since.
God the music sucks.

major_setback
11-09-2005, 04:26 AM
"free energy from a yoyo "

Raaaid, you should be careful how you name your threads...this is almost too descriptive...!

arcadeace
11-09-2005, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
You are asking it to accelerate against gravity with no addition of energy after it stops falling. It has the kinetic energy of the fall, but it spends that energy pulling itself back up and winding the string or cable or what have you. So as it spends energy, it goes slower. It's weight does not decrease as it goes back up, actually, with the addition of string or cable on the axle, the weight effectively should increase. It will not go farther up than it does down.

This was my take too and seems almost self-evident when conceptualized.



I just wanna say to everyone who enjoys believing they're above raaaid, I mean truly above the guy... who the hell are you kidding? He's one of the least judgmental in this forum and not out to prove himself over anyone.

As far as his topics go, frankly my knowledge isn't qualified to respond half the time, at best. Its more than revealing how the only member who is consistently qualified has belittled the least, if at all.

Too many here look for an excuse.

joeap
11-09-2005, 04:58 AM
Well said Arcadeace.

raaaid
11-09-2005, 05:19 AM
in a yoyo gravity accelerates a yoyo linearly and rotationally

if you decrease the axle thickness geometrically tending to 0 the linear acceleration decreses as the rotational acceleration increases

but you can decrease the linear acceleration increasing the rotational one by decreasing the radius of the axle and therefore keeping a constant relation so both rotational acceleration and linear acceleration add a constant,the gravitational acceleration caused by earth

the problem is that if you make the axle tend to 0 as in limits but never reaching it the linear acceleration tends to 0, never reaching it,and the rotational energy tends to the gravitation of earth

and now the height lost by the yoyo tends to 0 and the time it takes to fall to infinite but the rotational acceleration remains constant

Flying_Nutcase
11-09-2005, 06:54 AM
Regardless of the content, raaiiid's posts always make a good read.

Mate, I'm always impressed by your constant analysis of mechanics and search for something new.

Good luck and I hope you manage to put A, B, & C together in a way noone has thought of yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

x6BL_Brando
11-09-2005, 08:08 AM
I just wanna say to everyone who enjoys believing they're above raaaid, I mean truly above the guy

I apologise to you Raaaid, and anyone else who thinks that I am setting you up as some kind of virtual village idiot.

I would be as sarcastic (yes, the lowest form of wit) with anyone here who asked me to imagine "take(ing) a 1 ton yoyo that falls down 1 meter with an axle thicknes of 1 micrometer" without mentioning a safety boots and medical insurance.

I'm not so witless that I can't recognise the difference between a scientific hypothesis and a throwaway joke - perhaps I read too many Terry Pratchett novels - but I just couldn't resist the lampoon.

Sorry.

Treetop64
11-09-2005, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
"free energy from a yoyo "

Raaaid, you should be careful how you name your threads...this is almost too descriptive...!

LMAO!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Treetop64
11-09-2005, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Tully, they're right about you: you are too nice!

Dude, I stopped taking raaaid seriously a loooong time ago...
Raaaid's ok, he just has a little trouble accounting for all forces in an energy equation and let's his eagerness for the possibilities overcome a methodical analysis. Given a patient explanation he usually understands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Admirable, Mr. T http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VW-IceFire
11-09-2005, 09:19 PM
I have a hybrid yo-yo...it gets 2 parsecs for every 1000 lightyears. Amazing! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

fordfan25
11-09-2005, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Guys...

How do you spell "C-R-A-C-K P-O-T"?

Just wonderin'...

WhAt? Hu? DiD SoMeBoDy SaY CrAcK!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

L33T-Zoolander
11-10-2005, 12:25 AM
A yo-yo is a good manoeuver to perform, if you blow your shot during attack and have excessive energy. It allows reengagement at a higher level of energy, but with some initial loss.
A yo-yo can also be a good defensive manoeuver if you have a lot of energy and an attacker firing from your six. However, then it's called vertical scissors and unless you have help from above, or your attacker is a dolt, it's usually a 'Hail Mary' manoeuver.

If you have a yo-yo and a lot of magic mushrooms, many things are possible. Beware of the evil scissors. Scissors can make the yo-yo come crashing down and roll across the floor, under the sofa and never to be seen again. Even the enchanted Swiffer will not have the power to retrieve the noble yo-yo and all of the king's horses and all of the king's men will not make the yo-yo string whole again.

And, uhmmm... since I don't think you have the intellectual agility to restring a yo-yo (less even than a small soap dish), you should just go to Wall Mart and purchase a complete new model.
As you move forward through the time continuum, perhaps you will practice the yo-yo and the chewing of gum, during the same instance.

Good Hunting,
Zoo

MrQBerrt
11-10-2005, 09:04 AM
and now the height lost by the yoyo tends to 0 and the time it takes to fall to infinite but the rotational acceleration remains constant

What is 1 + 1/2 + 1+4 + 1/8 + 1/16 ... (follow the pattern to infinity)?

Hint: If you come up with infinity as your answer, you did something wrong.

Hint 2: Look up limits and convergence in a calculus textbook (should be towards the begining of the textbook.


On another subject. I like raiid's posts. I always take time to read them.

raaaid
11-10-2005, 10:04 AM
thats the same story than thales from mileto turtle that never reaches its destination

starting with one meter step and being the next each time of half the anterior it never reaches its destination that would be in two meters

thats exactly the same point with my yoyo, it starts with an axle perimeter of 1 meter but it halfs with each turn so it never gets to drop two meters but gravity aplyes an acceleration torque forever without ever dropping two meters

arcadeace
11-10-2005, 03:31 PM
Raaaid math is essentially a closed system regulated by its own laws. Concepts such as infinity, dimensions greater then 3, division by zero etc. are necessary to bring it together, establishing methodology with predictable results for a workable system. Its not the truth; its to be judiciously applied to real applications in the hope of finding it. The laws of physics, tho understood by math, are separate and reality.

Spinnetti
11-10-2005, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Professor_06:
Its true. My Yoyo made out of remnants of a black hole and uses inverted chromium muffler bearings in its 2 micron axel and spins at the speed of light. I am thereby able to move forward in time.

Thats BRilliant! All this time, I thought you had to have inverted buckeyballs arranged on a 4 micron axel! No wonder I kept hopping to parallel universes where dumb ***es keep posting the same nonesense on this forum! (I seriously wonder if the guy is completely off his nut!)

Freelancer-1
11-10-2005, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
thats the same story than thales from mileto turtle that never reaches its destination

starting with one meter step and being the next each time of half the anterior it never reaches its destination that would be in two meters

thats exactly the same point with my yoyo, it starts with an axle perimeter of 1 meter but it halfs with each turn so it never gets to drop two meters but gravity aplyes an acceleration torque forever without ever dropping two meters

While Zeno's Paradox is an interesting thought experiment, it has no application to real life.

http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/zeno_tort/index.asp

Try this one:

If there is a point source of energy (say, a light of some kind) inside a perfectly reflective sphere and the power is shut off, will the sphere retain the energy forever?

Jumoschwanz
11-10-2005, 07:56 PM
I see what you are trying to say raaaid. It comes down to leverage. On the way down, the yoyo picks up a lot of rotational speed because of the small diameter of the axle. If you had a device to automatically increase the diameter of the axle say ten times at the moment the yoyo started it's trip back up, the string would be pushed away from the center of rotation by half that amount, a factor of five, and this would increase the length of the lever, and decrease the amount of leverage that the energy of the yoyo had to work with to propel itself back up the string. Just like an automobile transmission, when it selects a higher gear ratio, the torque at the tailshaft will go down. YOu are just trading rotational speed for traveling speed. The yoyo accelerates slowly to a high speed on the way down, and on the way up accelerates quickly at a lower rotational speed. (Physicists call any change of speed acceleration, whether from slow to fast or fast to slow). And of course we have frictional loss to the air, and even in a vaccumm, loss to friction between the string and the parts of the yoyo it rubs, as well as the friction of the string winding and stretching against itself. This friction manifests itself in the form of infra-red radiation, invisible to your naked eye, but you could view it with special scopes and or photography.
In steady-state yoyoing, where your hand is providing energy to maintain the yoyo's motion, the automatically ratio-shiftin yo-yo would work as well as a normal one, but would be harder to time your hand inputs correctly because of the different times it took for it to travel the length of the string on the down and up strokes. It would be a novelty at a yoyo convention, with it's unconventional appearance in operation.

In a normal yoyo anyway, you will note that as the string winds and unwinds, and has to wrap around itself, it wraps around a spool of string that has a small diameter at the bottom of the stroke, and at the top with many wraps of string, a larger diameter. So actually all normal yoyos DO have an infinitely variable automatic transmission that is constantly altering the ratio of leverage they have between their rotational energy and the winching action of the axle and string. This is why the yoyo can be seen to spin very fast at the bottom of the stroke, and more slowy, but at the same speed at the top of the stroke!

You have invented somethng that already exists!
Your resident god and genius,

Jumoschwanz

Treetop64
11-10-2005, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Spinnetti:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Professor_06:
Its true. My Yoyo made out of remnants of a black hole and uses inverted chromium muffler bearings in its 2 micron axel and spins at the speed of light. I am thereby able to move forward in time.

Thats BRilliant! All this time, I thought you had to have inverted buckeyballs arranged on a 4 micron axel! No wonder I kept hopping to parallel universes where dumb ***es keep posting the same nonesense on this forum! (I seriously wonder if the guy is completely off his nut!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now this is the most fun I've had reading these forums in a long, long time!

lairdperkins
11-10-2005, 09:43 PM
Hrm.... am I the only one that read the topic of this post and assumed the thread was going to be about flaws in the 4.02m flight model wherein a bouncing glass uber-190 being flown by Rudolph Hess with an unknown Japanese ace on his lap over the Slot all in glorious fully supported triple head Matrox Goodness... would actually gain energy by manuvering in the vertical to decrease angle off target...

Boy was that a mother of a run on sentance.

Zeus-cat
11-10-2005, 10:08 PM
lairdperkins said

"Hrm.... am I the only one that read the topic of this post and assumed the thread was going to be about flaws in the 4.02m flight model..."

The short answer - yes.

The long answer - The rest of us are used to raaaid and his... um... unique ideas. The one months ago about the giant spinning balls in space that were pulled in and pushed out to create free energy was particularily interesting.

Zeus-cat

lairdperkins
11-10-2005, 10:14 PM
See... now that was a joke and you took ME seriously... I've got to work on that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Treetop64
11-10-2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:

The one months ago about the giant spinning balls in space that were pulled in and pushed out to create free energy was particularily interesting.

Zeus-cat

"Amusing" would be the word I'd choose...

redfeathers1948
11-11-2005, 09:34 AM
......
Rudolph Hess with an unknown Japanese ace on his lap over the Slot all in glorious fully supported triple head......

What the h**l was a Jap ace doin in his lap!!?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

actionhank1786
11-11-2005, 11:16 AM
I left my regrigerator magnet somewhere around here...it was that one i really love...anyone seen it?
It's got a duck on it i think...not positive...but pretty sure...
yep.
Just checkin'
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Old_Canuck
11-12-2005, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Tully, they're right about you: you are too nice!

Dude, I stopped taking raaaid seriously a loooong time ago...
Raaaid's ok, he just has a little trouble accounting for all forces in an energy equation and let's his eagerness for the possibilities overcome a methodical analysis. Given a patient explanation he usually understands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But he has hope. And he still has the ability to get excited about an new possibility. We shouldn't kill hope in anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jds1978
11-13-2005, 05:35 AM
But he has hope. And he still has the ability to get excited about an new possibility. We shouldn't kill hope in anyone

without a doubt...raaaid, keep on tinkering and posting!

CRSutton
11-13-2005, 01:58 PM
Rotation! I am just happy if my yo-yo stays hard for longer than 15 minutes at a time......Oh wait, you are talking about airplanes.

JunkoIfurita
11-13-2005, 10:16 PM
LeBillFish posted:
Oh wait never mind....just an acid flashback....Back to yo-yo's.

KNEW I'd met you somewhere before. Woodstock 2215, remember? It was during that crazy awesome set where the re-incarnated Jimi Hendrix's head-in-a-glass-jar played the guitar with his teeth (not having any other appendages available to him) and played an awesome jam-out of 'Lightyear Tripper' with Zombie John Lennon.

You sold me some wicked acid, but then I had to leave early because my yo-yo powered time-car was already spinning back upwards and I didn't want to miss my ride.

----