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View Full Version : Dora vs Anton question for Fw buffs



Grey_Mouser67
09-02-2005, 10:27 PM
In game, the Dora out turns an Anton pretty handily...but the data I have indicates that the Dora was heavier than an A-6 for example by a few hundred pounds typically and had slightly less wing are...net effect higher wingloading.

There were not technological changes that I am aware of in terms of wing design to explain this so should the Dora turn better than the Antons first of all and why or why not?

I can't find any real life data or even anectotal evidence that it should out turn an Anton, but it does out turn it for me...particularly those A-8's and such

VW-IceFire
09-02-2005, 10:57 PM
I'm not the expert on aerodynamics but I think in this case it was down to the position of the engine and the power of the engine. The new inline Jumo that they installed gave it more power and more ability to pull itself through turns that the Antons could not.

Also the removal of the outer wing guns probably had some consideration.

faustnik
09-03-2005, 12:50 AM
Lt. Heinz Ossenkop, JG 26:

Takeoff and climb were rather better than the A-8. It was possible to make tighter turns before the onset of flow seperation. In a dive, the D-9 was far superior to the A-8 with its drag producing radial engine.


So, I guess the more streamlined nose gave the Dora better airflow over the wings when turning????

p1ngu666
09-03-2005, 01:55 AM
the excess thrust the extra roc indicates means it would bleed less speed

tigertalon
09-03-2005, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by faustnik:
So, I guess the more streamlined nose gave the Dora better airflow over the wings when turning????


Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the excess thrust the extra roc indicates means it would bleed less speed

What the guys say. IMO Dora and Anton have approx. same elevator response, but dora bleeds less E during turn, that's why it has better sustained turn.

BBB_Hyperion
09-03-2005, 04:50 AM
Note the longer tail .)force x forcearm .)

Grey_Mouser67
09-03-2005, 08:53 AM
The higher power/thrust makes sense to me at high altitudes because powerloading has a big effect on sustained turn rates at high altitudes...I'm just having a hard time understanding why the tight turning in thick air...I know, historically speaking, the Dora was much better and it was a plane that most challenged the Mustang...I think the Luftwaffe was looking for something to defeat the Mustang ever since it was introduced....but wasn't able to find any data or any specific evidence.

horseback
09-03-2005, 11:26 AM
From MONOGRAM Close-Up 10: FW 190D, by J. Richard Smith & Eddie J. Creek, copyright 1986, pages 10 and 11:

"Early in October, 1944 the first Fw 190 D-9s were delivered to III/JG 54 (the third group of jagdgeschwader- fighter wing- 54)based at Oldenburg. At first the pilots, led by Hptm. (Hauptmann) Rudolf 'Basi' Weiss, were not particularly impressed by the "Dora 9" as the fighter instantly was dubbed, considering that the in-line engine had little increase in power over that of the BMW 801 and that the longer nose would detract from the fighter's excellent maneuverability.

"This feeling was heightened when Kurt Tank arrived at the airfield to tell the pilots something of the new variant. "The Fw 190 D-9" he said "is an emergency solution until the Ta-152 comes into production...I'm sure you will reconcile yourselves to the new version as you are all experienced pilots..."

"Although Tank's speech gave an oversimplified view of the thinking that went into the Fw 190 D-9, it did nothing to overcome the pilots' disquiet. However, as they became accustomed to their new charges they began to revise their opinions. They discovered that the Dora 9 was faster, with better accelleration and maneuverability than the BMW-engined Focke-Wulf. Eventually they agreed that it would not only out-turn the Fw 190 A-8 but the Bf 109 G as well. In fact, most pilots who flew the new variant considered it the best piston-engined fighter to enter Luftwaffe service during the Second World War."

cheers

horseback

FritzGryphon
09-03-2005, 11:54 AM
Comparing A5 to D9 in the game, full fuel, 1000m, A5 has better sustained turn time. 23 versus 24 seconds.

Dunno about A6 or A8

JSG72
09-03-2005, 12:01 PM
Doras only had wing root cannon.
Apart from the few D-11s.( Fitted with outboard 30mm 108s)
This would induce a better turning momentum.
Note: that many Anton pilots had the outboard MG FFs/151s.removed for just such a reason.

horseback
09-03-2005, 02:09 PM
There has to be some reason that the Western Allies had more respect for the FW-and especially the longnose- than the 109, and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the Blaupunkt sound system...

cheers

horseback

JSG72
09-03-2005, 02:27 PM
To be honest. It wasn't until we were able to capture Japanese technology. We were capable of confirming through DVD playback and editing.
That we were. Sure of the fact. That our Kill ratios were ****. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif