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Lipfert_5JG52
12-10-2004, 09:44 AM
Kameraden,

Is anyone else having ground handling issues? We are creating an AVG campaign and the P-40B and Hawk are doing some crazy wobbling thing when taking off.

Using a Saitek X-45 here, even with very gradual application of Throttle the aircraft rolls or wobbles back and forth like crazy.

And it is not gyroscopic progression.

El Turo
12-10-2004, 09:58 AM
Everyone in the squadron? Every time?

You sure you're not taking off with wind gusts or on bumpy grass?

JG53Frankyboy
12-10-2004, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lipfert_5JG52:
Kameraden,

Is anyone else having ground handling issues? We are creating an AVG campaign and the P-40B and Hawk are doing some crazy wobbling thing when taking off.

Using a Saitek X-45 here, even with very gradual application of Throttle the aircraft rolls or wobbles back and forth like crazy.

And it is not gyroscopic progression. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep. the early P-40s arw wobbling from sode to side like hell !
we lost already half squadrony while starting in coops !
the only< solution so far, bring up the tailwheel as soon as possible !
also no flaps and fix tailwheel help a little bit.
fortunatly the P-40 can only be used on Hawaii so far http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

didnt flew Desert map ore Moskau41/42 maps a lot on the past http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jesters-Ink
12-10-2004, 10:45 AM
Yup she shakes her *** all over the place, only quick rudder and the such will get you up safe.

Chuck_Older
12-10-2004, 10:54 AM
This is an known issue since PF came out, I'm surprised some folks still don't know about it.

Supposedly, this is a bug. try to take off in a P-40B on a Soviet airfeild, for example. Sure seems easier

There is no "only" way to approach the problem.

Once the tail wheel is off the ground, there is no wobbling.

My advice is to get the tailwheel up, pronto

Historically, the early P-40s had some handling quirks on the ground. I agree this is extreme, but it has at least some basis in fact; I am still hoping that it gets attention

VVS-Manuc
12-10-2004, 10:59 AM
I can confirm bouncing P-40 B and P-40 C. (anyone tested the Tomahawk I and II already??

mortoma
12-10-2004, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
This is an known issue since PF came out, I'm surprised some folks still don't know about it.

Supposedly, this is a bug. try to take off in a P-40B on a Soviet airfeild, for example. Sure seems easier

There is no "only" way to approach the problem.

Once the tail wheel is off the ground, there is no wobbling.

My advice is to get the tailwheel up, pronto

Historically, the early P-40s had some handling quirks on the ground. I agree this is extreme, but it has at least some basis in fact; I am still hoping that it gets attention <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not much basis in fact, because the P-40 had tendency to ground loop if you weren't careful with the throttle. But a ground loop and a severe side to side wobble are two completely different things. And no, not all Soviet ( eastern front ) maps alleviate the wobble. Crimea and Kuban are examples of maps where the wobble is exactly the same as PF maps. Also, I think Balaton maps have wobble. If you want to take off these planes without wobble, try Finland, Lvov, Smolensk and Stalingrad to name a few.

Oleg and Luthier have never responded to my inquiries on this issue and seemingly are pretending it doesn't exist. But I get emails from Oleg on other issues. For example he wrote me the other day to tell me there will be no more Grumman, Vought or Republic planes included in the sim from now on. So much for the P-47M/N or the F4U-4!!!

mortoma
12-10-2004, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VVS-Manuc:
I can confirm bouncing P-40 B and P-40 C. (anyone tested the Tomahawk I and II already?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, they all do it because they are really about the same plane except for armament and other small details.

Maj_Death
12-10-2004, 11:35 AM
It is a known bug but there are things you can do to survive it. First of all is to get the tail up as soon as possible. Locking the tail wheel is also very helpful (shift+T by default I think). A third thing that helps is standing on the breaks until the engine revs up.

Lipfert_5JG52
12-10-2004, 11:47 AM
Hola,

Thanks for the response. We normally fly Luftwobble and I did fly the P-40B in a Dogfight server without this behaviour.

We are using Kuban to simulate Burma and folks who were not ready for it had issues. I doubt a P-40B should be harder to rotate than a Bf-109.

Something is wrong for sure. Airstarts anyone? LOL.....

Lipfert_5JG52
12-10-2004, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Turo:
Everyone in the squadron? Every time?

You sure you're not taking off with wind gusts or on bumpy grass? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

El Turo,

Try taking off in a P-40B using a grass strip in Kuban. We were near G-Town base lastnight.

LilHorse
12-10-2004, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
For example he wrote me the other day to tell me there will be no more Grumman, Vought or Republic planes included in the sim from now on. So much for the P-47M/N or the F4U-4!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to veer this thread off course but, I'm actually glad about this. More planes= more problems. I've always been in favor of a smaller number of planes or at least a finalized number and getting all the bugs worked out of 'em. The more you demand of the developers the more of the kinds of problems like those being discussed in this thread crop up.

Chuck_Older
12-10-2004, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
This is an known issue since PF came out, I'm surprised some folks still don't know about it.

Supposedly, this is a bug. try to take off in a P-40B on a Soviet airfeild, for example. Sure seems easier

There is no "only" way to approach the problem.

Once the tail wheel is off the ground, there is no wobbling.

My advice is to get the tailwheel up, pronto

Historically, the early P-40s had some handling quirks on the ground. I agree this is extreme, but it has at least some basis in fact; I am still hoping that it gets attention <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not much basis in fact, because the P-40 had tendency to ground loop if you weren't careful with the throttle. But a ground loop and a severe side to side wobble are two completely different things. And no, not all Soviet ( eastern front ) maps alleviate the wobble. Crimea and Kuban are examples of maps where the wobble is exactly the same as PF maps. Also, I think Balaton maps have wobble. If you want to take off these planes without wobble, try Finland, Lvov, Smolensk and Stalingrad to name a few.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know I said it had ground handling quirks that were based in fact, right? Not that this wobble was based on fact? You read that part, I assume

mortoma
12-10-2004, 04:17 PM
I know Chuck but you didn't make it crystal clear one way or another. It is easy to read waht you said and think you meant that the wobble was part of the historical ground handling problems. No big deal though.

-HH-Dubbo
12-10-2004, 06:22 PM
A secondary problem caused by this is that because I tend to take a while with the B to get speed up (due to wobble) the AI behind you slams into the back of you just as you are getting over past the problem.

heywooood
12-10-2004, 06:27 PM
nope - you gotta pop the brakes with full manifold on this machine... and make the tail fly asap. Then hold it on the runway til you have used it up...then pop it into the air...that gets you a better initial climb rate..(basically do a carrier style takeoff initially)

The P40 was heavy so the sustained climb performance was poor. But if you use this method you can get to a decent alt. and then 'porpoise' or zoom climb much better.

LeadSpitter_
12-10-2004, 07:31 PM
I wish they would fix it, oleg said its like that because its nose heavy which it was but so was the 109 yak lagg spit basically all taildraggers especially spit 109 p40 mig with narrow landing gear. while the 190 p47 and p51 had wider landing gear but the 190 bounces around like its got pogo sticks as landing gears too but not as bad as the p40b but close.

I flown alot of campaigns and online coops with the p40b more then half the people flip over which is bad for long wait to rdy up coops.

mortoma
12-10-2004, 09:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
I wish they would fix it, oleg said its like that because its nose heavy which it was but so was the 109 yak lagg spit basically all taildraggers especially spit 109 p40 mig with narrow landing gear. while the 190 p47 and p51 had wider landing gear but the 190 bounces around like its got pogo sticks as landing gears too but not as bad as the p40b but close.

I flown alot of campaigns and online coops with the p40b more then half the people flip over which is bad for long wait to rdy up coops. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oleg said that?? If it's the nose heaviness, then why does the wobble go away for the wobble prone planes on quite a few maps?? Did you ask Oleg that?? Try to fly any of the wobble prone planes on the Finland 1 or 2 map and you'll see what I mean. No wobble at all!!
I'd seriously like to hear an explaination from Oleg as to why it's only on certain maps. That would make for some good reading. Hmmm, I wonder how he'd correlate this 'nose-heavy' stuff and the maps??? I think the nose heavy stuff is just a load of junk.

Wobble ( severe ) prone planes are:
Both I-153s
Both I-16s
All four new P-40 variants
P-11C
( Many others will wobble at some slow speed but with those it does not affect take off or landing, only slow taxi. )

Wobble maps are:
All PF maps
Balatons 1 and 2
Crimea
Kuban
( and possibly a few more I forgot about )

Sgt.Waite
12-11-2004, 09:20 AM
The only real problem I've encountered with the `40 is it's tendency to nose into the ground if you whacked the throttle too hard and touch the brakes too quickly. If there was a wobble, I can only assume that I picked up on it and compenstated, but after the near disasterous take off in that ****able I-16 (my coop wingmen give me a wide berth on take off, like a two county berth).

Chuck_Older
12-11-2004, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sgt.Waite:
The only real problem I've encountered with the `40 is it's tendency to nose into the ground if you whacked the throttle too hard and touch the brakes too quickly. If there was a wobble, I can only assume that I picked up on it and compenstated, but after the near disasterous take off in that ****able I-16 (my coop wingmen give me a wide berth on take off, like a two county berth). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take a Hawk 81A-2 out on a PF map, or on Kuban, and take off.

Now take a P-40E to the same field and take off.

You <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">have got to</span> notice a difference. the H-81A-2, P-40B and P-40C exhibit this trait, and I assume the Tomahawk I and II do as well. The P-40E and later variants do not exhibit these traits, in my experience, so if that's all you've flown, you definitely haven't seen the problem being discussed