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View Full Version : Would this freak you out...



roybaty
02-11-2008, 11:37 AM
You go to grab something to eat in your local town and you see armed soldiers patrolling the streets.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=66e_1202719698

I guess this was routine training in Toledo OH until this year.

Don't we have training centers for this, the idea just makes me nervous. Aside from the ominous overtones imagine if there was some sorta accidental discharge of live ammo, I understand that they would only have blanks but mistakes can occur no matter how well trained.

berg417448
02-11-2008, 11:52 AM
They have had that type training in my city before.It is low key and hardly noticed by anyone.

SeaFireLIV
02-11-2008, 11:57 AM
Funny. I was just telling my daughter how strange it must be (and even off putting for some) to have soldiers walking on your streets, even if they`re friendly.

But were I training men to get used to patrolling foreign streets I`d get them used to the basics on my own land first.

roybaty
02-11-2008, 01:07 PM
Weird I have never heard of training like this in the U.S.

I do know the guard does practice para drops/repelling in the more rural areas and parks where I live (I have a friend in a guard unit).

But seeing troops in a city or town center would be a bit spooky.

Loco-S
02-11-2008, 09:00 PM
grew up in Peru at the high time of terrorism ( I spit on the floor just thinking about those commie pinkos)there was curfews at least six times a year and one that lasted a couple of years. no driving after 10 pm, if you HAD to drive, the car inside lights on and a white flag out the window, tanks everywhere, machine gun nests, arbitrary detainment to verify your identity, car bombs, shootouts, black outs due to high tension towers blown, no water at least once a week, kidnapping, murders, etc, you guys have it so nice.

Esel1964
02-12-2008, 11:43 PM
I used to ride dirt bikes at Ft. Hood,TX,and they,ve got several small fake cities for urban training,but I guess they're not big enough for large scale training.

And I'd rather see U.S. soldiers in the streets than the 'crackheads',and meth freaks that I usually see.
Not to mention the fact that any nation should want their military to have the highest quality,most realistic training they can get.

Stop listening to the shortwave,'black helicopter','Bohemian Grove',crowd-they're far too alarmist!
But,you can bet they're ready to quarantine areas if terrorists manage to release a viable strain of smallpox.

Pirschjaeger
02-13-2008, 02:06 AM
A: Sir! Walters is down!!!

B: What the hell happened?!!

A: Another tricycle left on the sidewalk sir.

B: That's the forth man this week!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

horseback
02-13-2008, 12:42 PM
roybaty, you really have to think things through. While US military personnel are extremely well trained, they are hardly brainwashed. They are all still guys and gals from the old neighborhood, who actually believe in the Constitution and the rule of law.

I mean, after all, they joined up to protect those things. Really.

30 years ago, I was part of a 'bull session in the CIC of a Navy ship at sea wherein a young lieutenant(jg) asked whether we would ever consider taking part in a military overthrow of the government (this was during the Carter Administration, and we were b1tching about its shortcomings, having narrowly missed being torn apart in the streets while on liberty in Taiwan, afer Mr. Carter stabbed Nationalist China in the back by recognizing the People's Republic as the legitimate government of China). The compartment went dead quiet, until our EW Chief spoke up and said that there wasn't a man in the compartment who wouldn't toss the lieutenant's sorry arse over the side if we thought for one moment that he was even half serious.

There was a literal chorus of "damn straight" from the guys in dungarees. Most of the enlisted and commissioned members of the military are there to serve for a short period, and for all intents and purposes are civilians 'on loan' to the professional military. No amount of training will change that, or remove their ability (and inclination)to 'check' a potential military takeover (as if the professional core were anything but dedicated to civilian rule).

From the sound of the newsbyte you linked, I gather that the Marines had been doing this exercise for a few years before the local mayor decided to play to the antiwar/pacifist crowd.

While there are small mockup towns located at places like Camp Pendleton, Fort Irwin, and Ft Hood, they can be NOTHING like a real urban environment, with streets, houses, cars & buses filled with real innocent civilians. And a big part of the urban training is building an awareness that you dare not shoot at anything that moves.

Oh, and by the way: there is next to NO chance that there is any ammo in those guns or magazines those guys were carrying. Not even blanks. It just isn't done, unless you're going into a combat zone. Ammo is distributed at the firing range, and patially because it's so expensive, closely monitored.

cheers

horseback

leitmotiv
02-13-2008, 12:55 PM
I saw British soldiers on horseback with rifles looking mean and dead serious while the IRA was bombing London in '75-6, and loved every mother's son. A post office went up a few minutes after I mailed a letter---arrived in the U.S. with scorch marks. Sometimes I wondered if a tube of toothpaste was worth possibly being distributed over London like Yank confetti.

LEBillfish
02-13-2008, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Funny. I was just telling my daughter how strange it must be (and even off putting for some) to have soldiers walking on your streets, even if they`re friendly..

Sadly, domestic nor foreign soldiers patrolling "your" streets are not there to protect "you" from outsiders, yet to protect the government in power and their interests from you.....Never known it to be any different. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Pirschjaeger
02-13-2008, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Sadly, domestic nor foreign soldiers patrolling "your" streets are not there to protect "you" from outsiders, yet to protect the government in power and their interests from you.....Never known it to be any different. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Fritz

Ob.Emann
02-13-2008, 01:33 PM
"We're the government and we're here to help"


Words that strike fear into the hearts of mankind like no other. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

DuxCorvan
02-14-2008, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Loco-S:
grew up in Peru at the high time of terrorism ( I spit on the floor just thinking about those commie pinkos)there was curfews at least six times a year and one that lasted a couple of years. no driving after 10 pm, if you HAD to drive, the car inside lights on and a white flag out the window, tanks everywhere, machine gun nests, arbitrary detainment to verify your identity, car bombs, shootouts, black outs due to high tension towers blown, no water at least once a week, kidnapping, murders, etc, you guys have it so nice.

Yep. Sendero Luminoso was such a cr*p.

roybaty
02-14-2008, 04:02 PM
I don't like it, and don't understand how patrolling stable, peaceful (relatively) American streets is giving troops "real world" experience that's any better than a tactical range in the desert somewhere with other troops acting as civilians and opfor.

Any Iraq vets around here, can you guys (or girls?) explain how it is applicable, or better than training in a mocked up city, or actual experience?

And lastly lets keep this a cool civil debate.

berg417448
02-14-2008, 04:19 PM
They do it for the same reason that police SWAT teams and Hostage Negotiation teams do real world training exercises with the assistance of schools and/or businesses. Role players don't give you the same reaction or response as real citizens or students will.

When I took some training at FLETC in Ga many years ago they had an exercise is trying to conduct surveillance on a suspect without being detected. The guy playing the suspect drove and walked through areas of the nearby towns and business districts. He stopped for a meal...went for a bit of shopping. It put the training in a real environment that could not be simulated otherwise.

roybaty
02-14-2008, 04:57 PM
I read some old coverage of the Toledo exercises and civilians were advised to remain 30 yards away from troops, do Iraqi civilians stay 30 yards away from troops; that seems to take civilian interaction out of the equation.

Plus they were supposed to practice street patrols not surveillance. From I can see in clips from Iraq, soldiers point weapons at possible threats (as they should), I don't think they could do that in these exercises, I have to believe pointing an M16 even unloaded at an American civilian is not allowed.

crucislancer
02-14-2008, 04:59 PM
If memory serves, these training sorties are put to the public before it happens, in order to keep from alarming the population or getting in the way of something.

If I was average guy, had no clue what was going on, I might be a little concerned, I guess, expecially if I didn't know about it.

I'd only freak out if the flag on their shoulder was something other then the Stars & Stripes.