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JRJacobs
09-18-2008, 08:46 AM
Somewhere out there guys is a functional, crated, working WWII Me-262. Who will find it? Dr. Jones?

Fm American Raiders the race to capture the Luftwaffe's secrets by Wolfgang Samuel

"The first Me-262 was delivered to the fighter evaluation section at Wright Field on May 22 (1945). It was the aircraft Hans Fay had flown to Frankfurt on March 31, which was disassembled by one of McDonalds ATI teams and shipped by "fast boat" to the ZI (United States).

It was not the only Me-262 in the United States at the time. Another, also in a disassembled state, arrived in the belly of the U-234 submarine which surrendered (while enroute to Japan with test versions of secret weapons) at war's end and dropped anchor in Portsmouth harbor on May 17.

The fate of that Me-262 remains a mystery. There are no records showing that this aircraft was ever flown at Wright Field, nor does Colonel Ken Chilstrom, a Wright Field test pilot and then chief of the fighter test section, remember such a plane."

Dah duh duh dah.... dah duh dah (Insert Indiana Jones theme music here)

waffen-79
09-18-2008, 10:16 AM
Howard Hughes? anyone?

spare parts for it's racing ME-262???

ElAurens
09-18-2008, 10:49 AM
It's in the same warehouse as half a dozen new in crate military Harley Davidson motorcycles, 20 brand new Willys MBs, and about 1500 M1 Garands, still in the cosmoline.

sw25th
09-18-2008, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
It's in the same warehouse as half a dozen new in crate military Harley Davidson motorcycles, 20 brand new Willys MBs, and about 1500 M1 Garands, still in the cosmoline.

well that solves it.

PanzerAce
09-18-2008, 12:03 PM
Never going to find it. Why? Because if you could find it, you could find all of the OTHER stuff that was on U-234, like the Uranium oxide that just kind of disappeared.

Also, the sources I've read stated that there were two -262 jets on board, not one *shrugs*

JRJacobs
09-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Never going to find it. Why? Because if you could find it, you could find all of the OTHER stuff that was on U-234, like the Uranium oxide that just kind of disappeared

I'm sure you're right but I've read two sources that say the US processed the Urainium oxide and used it to make the nukes used against Japan
so theres hope still whaahahahahaha

jayhall0315
09-18-2008, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Never going to find it. Why? Because if you could find it, you could find all of the OTHER stuff that was on U-234, like the Uranium oxide that just kind of disappeared.

Also, the sources I've read stated that there were two -262 jets on board, not one *shrugs*

What about those dead alien bodies from that 1940 flying saucer crash in the Bavarian Alps? It was probably their technology which allowed the Germans to even invent the ME 262.

Hee hee

Wizzleteets
09-18-2008, 02:06 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7620890100890480

PanzerAce
09-18-2008, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by JRJacobs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Never going to find it. Why? Because if you could find it, you could find all of the OTHER stuff that was on U-234, like the Uranium oxide that just kind of disappeared

I'm sure you're right but I've read two sources that say the US processed the Urainium oxide and used it to make the nukes used against Japan
so theres hope still whaahahahahaha </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure that's what happened as well, since the mining records and the previous pace of US nuclear weapon R&D doesn't really jive with when the nukes were actually detonated. We had a hard time getting the stuff for CP-1, but then all of a sudden we have enough refined radiologicals for three bombs.

Basically only the government is trying to hide what happened to a half ton of radiologicals (I think they officially reported like 50kg total, instead of the 500+ that was loaded on board)

Col.BBQ
09-18-2008, 09:39 PM
You should read the Dirk Pitt book, "Dragon". He found 22 working Me-262 jets although the officials only cataloged 21.

WTE_Galway
09-18-2008, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Col.BBQ:
You should read the Dirk Pitt book, "Dragon". He found 22 working Me-262 jets although the officials only cataloged 21.

The Australians had a flyable one that had clearly seen combat as they found 0.50 cal inside the wing cavities. Unfortunately it was not seen as having any real value at the time and they gave it to RAAF apprentices to pull apart for practice.

It sat around in pieces for years in storage until a few people got a campaign going to do something with it. Eventually it was placed (unrestored) on display at the Australian War Memorial Museum.

Heliopause
09-19-2008, 12:59 AM
a bit of info (http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj00/fal00/scalia.html)

PanzerAce
09-19-2008, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
a bit of info (http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj00/fal00/scalia.html)

Lol, I'd way what was more interesting than the presence of over a half ton of uranium was the fact that the navy only cataloged about 100lbs of it has having been officially removed.

Blottogg
09-19-2008, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
a bit of info (http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj00/fal00/scalia.html)

From the above link: "The 12 passengers included the new air attaché to Tokyo, General of the Air Force Ulrich Kessler, who had directed the air attack on Poland in 1935..." Since hostilities were not declared until 1939, this caused a bit of a stir. However Herr General was nothing if not a political opportunist, and recovered enough of his prestige (not to mention his security clearance) to be: "implicated in a plot against Hitler in 1944." STILL not willing to admit career defeat, his treachery was apparently overlooked (or perhaps punished) by assigning him to be the new air attaché in Japan during the closing days of the war (I can hear his military court deliberating now... "We could execute him, or we could just send him to Tokyo. The fire-bombing will save us the firing squad ammo."). Now that's some resume, encapsulated in only one sentence. I'm guessing Capt Sheila-Llyn Van Nederveen was under a bit of time pressure when writing her synopsis.

So is this the thread where all the WWII conspiracy theorys go to be aired out? The U-235 for Little Boy was actually confiscated by the U.S. from the Germans? Good thing we had that whole Oak Ridge project in Tennessee handy to use as a cover story.

As to the eventual fate of the mystery 262, if it wasn't parted out to keep the other war prizes flying for a few more hours, it was probably bulldozed into a pit at either Wright-Patt or at the aux field in Indiana, and buried. They found a buried T-33 on base while I was still working there. The EPA and OSHA weren't around at the time, and such methods were common (if environmentally unsound.)

JRJacobs
09-19-2008, 06:10 PM
as much as i saw the humor in you post and laughed - i do want to point out that oak ridge (and hanford for that matter) was uranium PROCESSING plants, and we're joking about the enriched ore not the finished product. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Now the missing 262 story is just that a story, one i found interesting AND funny which is why I entitled it Indiana Jones. I work at an airport that was an ex-military base and I KNOW the stuff that's dozed under, we find it all the time (FYI old fuel and chemicals usually)

The BEST debunking of the uranium oxide (which by the way came from captured Belgian sources from the Congo is by Robert S. Norris and you can read his rebuttal here... http://www.amazon.com/review/R21A16KUN28TYE/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

But I'm NOT a big conspiracy buff. I DO believe we walked on the moon, I DO believe Oswald was the lone gunman - if not for any reason other than I don't think MY government is CAPABLE of keeping a secret 25 years or more

ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM. "Don't let the bastards grind you down."

Blottogg
09-19-2008, 07:59 PM
Sorry if I came off too harsh, but after a while the conspiracy theories start to grate on my nerves, though some (like the one in your post) are definitely entertaining. We'd have people write in to our PA guy at NAIC asking us to "release the aliens from Roswell, because it had been fifty years, and their families missed them." We all had a good laugh, and the nuts help deflect attention from what we're actually up to.

The PA officer was also the unit historian, so hanging out with him I learned a few things about "Watson's Whizzers" and the origins of NASIC (nee NAIC, FTD, etc.) I gotta admit though, if he told me about a 262 from U-234 I've forgotten about it. It's certainly more plausable than the aforementioned warehouse full of Harley's/Jeeps/Garands, or my favorite, the bunker under Berlin full of fighters and spare parts.

But like you, when the conspiracy nuts start attributing engineering achievements to aliens, happenstance, or other fanciful circumstances, rather than try to understand how they actually were accomplished, it hacks me off (thanks for the link to that review BTW, that was great). The folks at NASA, NAA, Grumman, and the Manhattan project worked their butts off to get a man on the moon, or two separate nuclear weapon designs to work, respectively. To attribute their accomplishments to a hackneyed conspiracy theory is like rewarding their hard work with a slap in the face and a mocking laugh.

No worries, your post was intended to be funny, and it was. It hit one of my raw nerves, but that's my fault, not yours. And don't even get me started on astrology, pet psychology, herbal medicine, or other pseudo-sciences.

woofiedog
09-19-2008, 10:33 PM
Interesting story... but it seems they cared little for the Me-163 & the two Me-262 that were on board the sub. The U-234 is laying in the waters off from Cape Cod. And there is also a DVD out about the U-234. U-234: Hitler's Last U-Boat (http://www.ihffilm.com/840.html)

http://www.uboatarchive.net/704673.jpg
Greenfish torpedoes U-234 in a trial 40 milies northeast of Cape Cod 20 November 1947.

U-234: Hitler's last submarine (http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/i-m/lastdays1.html)

"Japanese Passengers
The depressed atmosphere inside the black-flag-flying U-boat was disrupted by an incident involving two passengers, Imperial Japanese Navy Lieutenant Commander Hideo Tomonaga, a leading Japanese submarine designer, and Lieutenant Commander Genzo Shoji, an aircraft expert, who had come along to study German weaponry.(Whether they also knew of the atomic cargo remains one of the unsolved mysteries of U-234.)

Fehler explained to the Japanese that he had to surrender because he had to obey his high command just as they would have to follow theirs.

An officer later recalled, "They returned to their bunks where they took Luminol, a very powerful barbiturate, lay down and pulled the curtains and we knew they were killing themselves, and that was their right. They took more than 36 hours to die. Then we buried them at sea, as we would do for any one of our own."

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-234SuttonCapture2.jpg
A chief prepares to raise the American Ensign aboard U-234 - LCDR Thomas Nazro, CO of USS Sutton looks on

"Second Officer Karl Ernst Pfaff was taken to what he believed to be a top-secret Navy installation in Virginia and into a room in which U-234's cargo was being stored. There he was ordered to oversee the opening of a metal container.

The military watchdogs stood back, out of harm's way. The reluctant American with the cutting torch pleaded with Pfaff: 'He begged me not to let both of us get blown up, and I assured him that I too did not want to die young. Why would these boxes be booby-trapped? They were on their way to our ally Japan. Why would we want to blow them up?'

When the big container had been opened and they saw that it was safe, the military came out of hiding. Pfaff was then asked to open the little cigar box-shaped containers that held the uranium oxide."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/U234_KptLt_Fehler_USS_Sutton.jpg
From the USS Sutton. U-234 surrendering.

Other Trips . There were at least 98 different U-boat or I-boat attempts to travel between Germany and Japan. Some German and Italian boats made it and were commissioned into the Japanese Navy. Several I-boat suceeded in the round trip. Most subs, and their cargos, were lost.3.

The Italian sub "Amiraglio Cagni" capitulated at Cape Town South Africa on 8 September 1943 with a load of "Mercury" aka Uranium-oxide.

The last two transport U-boats to reach Jakarta in November 1944 (U-195 & U-129) between themselves carried 12 V-2 disassembled rockets.

U-859 wrecked in the northern Straits of Malacca. U-boats carried Mercury in zinc cannisters inside the flooded keel and ballast tanks. Mercury when mixed with uranium oxide forms a paste which resists the hydrostatic crushing of U-boat dives and can later be separated from the Uranium quite easily.

Blottogg
09-20-2008, 09:35 AM
Informative post Woofie, thanks.

Getting hypocritical and going back to JR's original theme though, you wonder if the 262 was packed into a warehouse (next to the Arc of the Covenant) after being looked at by "top people". I never let hippocracy stand in the way of humor.

Fehler
09-21-2008, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by JRJacobs:
I DO believe Oswald was the lone gunman

You are correct. In Oklahoma, there exists a munitions plant. Well it once existed. I remember my grandfather taking me to see it when I was just a lad.

There they made wonderful advances in ammunition technology. My grandfather headed the experimental department. It was sort of a "Skunk works" for bullets.

At this factory, they invented magic bullets. Some found their way into the guns of P-47's. These special planes were used to kill Tiger Tanks during WWII.

But one such magic bullet made it all the way to Dallas Texas where a man named L.H.Oswald used it to kill the President.

Because of this, the factory was shut down. My Grandfather lost his job and eventually became an alcoholic.

WTE_Galway
09-21-2008, 06:39 PM
Surplus military equipment at wars end was seen more as a disposal problem than anything else.

For example one of the conditions of lend lease US equipment was it was paid for at the end of the war if you kept it. But the US did not want it back.

Hence Australia had a regular flotilla of cargo ships heading a few miles out to sea in 1946 and 1947 dumping brand new crated American motorcycles, jeeps, tanks and trucks into the sea.

Tab_Flettner
09-21-2008, 11:58 PM
Because of this, the factory was shut down. My Grandfather lost his job and eventually became an alcoholic.

Funny, the last time you posted this story, you said he went back to space because his home planet needed him....

WTE_Galway
09-22-2008, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Tab_Flettner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Because of this, the factory was shut down. My Grandfather lost his job and eventually became an alcoholic.

Funny, the last time you posted this story, you said he went back to space because his home planet needed him.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe that was his OTHER Grandfather.