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Treetop64
01-30-2005, 09:00 PM
...does there seem to be a epidemic of friggin' whiners of late? I mean, come on, man!

- "The plane that I want to fly isn't included, so the whole game sucks!"

- "All the planes don't have reflective textures, so they all suck!"

- "The bullets are all over-modeled, thus the game sucks!"

- "The cockpits in some of the planes are ugly, so they suck!"

- Plus the multitude of other nit-picky boo-hoos posted in the forums of late.

I know I'm a relatively new guy here, but jee-SUS!! I'm just sick of seeing all of the inconsequential b*tching!!! And yes, I understand the difference between constructive criticism and incosequential b*tching - it just seems that the latter has propagated in great abundance lately...

I remember when Microprose's F-15 Strike Eagle came out on the Amiga many, many years ago (you know, all vector graphics and bitmaps with HUGE pixels, FPS rate was about one frame every two seconds, etc.) Hell, even back then the game was ugly, but you had to look extremely hard to find anyone to complain about it! The game won rave reviews worldwide. Same goes for the original Microsoft Flight Simulator, LucasArts Battle of Britain series (fantastic sim back then), and numerous others too impractical to count here.

Now we enjoy a current crop of simply oustanding sims, whether it be the CFS series, the IL-2 series, the latest Microsoft flight sim, and others - sims that have achieved a level of realism and beauty we could not have imagined possible just a few short years ago. Yet, there still seems to be those that can post a subject in the forums to do nothing but complain about them.

Really, please have some appreciation and enjoy what you have for what they are. All things are flawed, but their greatness is measured in the quality of the good things they posess.

"Treetop"

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
...does there seem to be a epidemic of friggin' whiners of late? I mean, come on, man!

- "The plane that I want to fly isn't included, so the whole game sucks!"

- "All the planes don't have reflective textures, so they all suck!"

- "The bullets are all over-modeled, thus the game sucks!"

- "The cockpits in some of the planes are ugly, so they suck!"

- Plus the multitude of other nit-picky boo-hoos posted in the forums of late.

I know I'm a relatively new guy here, but jee-SUS!! I'm just sick of seeing all of the inconsequential b*tching!!! And yes, I understand the difference between constructive criticism and incosequential b*tching - it just seems that the latter has propagated in great abundance lately...

I remember when Microprose's F-15 Strike Eagle came out on the Amiga many, many years ago (you know, all vector graphics and bitmaps with HUGE pixels, FPS rate was about one frame every two seconds, etc.) Hell, even back then the game was ugly, but you had to look extremely hard to find anyone to complain about it! The game won rave reviews worldwide. Same goes for the original Microsoft Flight Simulator, LucasArts Battle of Britain series (fantastic sim back then), and numerous others too impractical to count here.

Now we enjoy a current crop of simply oustanding sims, whether it be the CFS series, the IL-2 series, the latest Microsoft flight sim, and others - sims that have achieved a level of realism and beauty we could not have imagined possible just a few short years ago. Yet, there still seems to be those that can post a subject in the forums to do nothing but complain about them.

Really, please have some appreciation and enjoy what you have for what they are. All things are flawed, but their greatness is measured in the quality of the good things they posess.

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, how dare people actually want the entire product they purchased...they should be happy with just two-thirds of it.

F4U_Flyer
01-30-2005, 09:32 PM
This is the result of making something great and above the current crop of games available at the time , then expecting greater the next time!

Seems to me the biggest gripe is about the torpedo planes but this is only because people who wanted a new , great pacific fighter/bomber/torpedo sim expected something that came with previous pto games. Whining and griping seems to be what has worked in the past to get the builders to include what the whiners want , trained behavior has worked in the past. ( The squeeky wheel gets the grease ).

The last big gripe came from the acceleration problems and the board was awash in complaints! It got fixed and you dont hear a peep about it now , so you see what i mean! Did it get fixed because of all the whiners or would it have been fixed without them? I guess what im saying is dont sweat the whiners because if you come across a problem that gets under your skin about the game , you will become a whiner too!

Now i agree about the rude or obnoxious ones but i think whiners are just fine as long as they are civil and keep to the subject and not make it personal. Its up to you whether you let it get to you or not! I've got no problem with them!

Hi...my name is flyer and i'm a whiner! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

fordfan25
01-30-2005, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
...does there seem to be a epidemic of friggin' whiners of late? I mean, come on, man!

- "The plane that I want to fly isn't included, so the whole game sucks!"

- "All the planes don't have reflective textures, so they all suck!"

- "The bullets are all over-modeled, thus the game sucks!"

- "The cockpits in some of the planes are ugly, so they suck!"

- Plus the multitude of other nit-picky boo-hoos posted in the forums of late.

I know I'm a relatively new guy here, but jee-SUS!! I'm just sick of seeing all of the inconsequential b*tching!!! And yes, I understand the difference between constructive criticism and incosequential b*tching - it just seems that the latter has propagated in great abundance lately...

I remember when Microprose's F-15 Strike Eagle came out on the Amiga many, many years ago (you know, all vector graphics and bitmaps with HUGE pixels, FPS rate was about one frame every two seconds, etc.) Hell, even back then the game was ugly, but you had to look extremely hard to find anyone to complain about it! The game won rave reviews worldwide. Same goes for the original Microsoft Flight Simulator, LucasArts Battle of Britain series (fantastic sim back then), and numerous others too impractical to count here.

Now we enjoy a current crop of simply oustanding sims, whether it be the CFS series, the IL-2 series, the latest Microsoft flight sim, and others - sims that have achieved a level of realism and beauty we could not have imagined possible just a few short years ago. Yet, there still seems to be those that can post a subject in the forums to do nothing but complain about them.

Really, please have some appreciation and enjoy what you have for what they are. All things are flawed, but their greatness is measured in the quality of the good things they posess.

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

close your eyes. if no body ever pointed out problems then thay may never get fixed. I bet youv downloaded every patch hu? or were you looking for a smack on the back and a "nice job you tell those whiners" if that the case then hear is your cookie. enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

HeibgesU999
01-30-2005, 09:58 PM
If you want to see some real whining you should take part in the subsim community.

You have people crying that because lifeboats, which would be strictly eyecandy and have no tactical purpose, won't be included in SH3.

This is despite the fact we only get a new wwii subsim every 5 years.

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 09:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
If you want to see some real whining you should take part in the subsim community.

You have people crying that because lifeboats, which would be strictly eyecandy and have no tactical purpose, won't be included in SH3.

This is despite the fact we only get a new wwii subsim every 5 years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We get the same one every five years...SH.

Jester_159th
01-30-2005, 10:00 PM
I fully agree with you Treetop....And the second post proves your point beautifully.

A certain small group of people seem to have decided that they are special enough to set themselves up as the conscience of the forum. Apparently stating the same thing over and over and over gain in multiple threads is going to get that extra content faster.

I would think (judging by what I've seen) that they're definately the minority. For whatever their personal reason they suddenly seem to think that Oleg has turned into an evil Bill Gates-esque being who is going to rob us all of what's promised. They also seem to believe that all the reasons for the delays that have been stated are some type of huge conspiracy theory. Well they say it takes all sorts to make a world don't they?

Personally any sympathy they may have expected for what (in most cases..such as that hinted at in the second post) started as genuine and understandable gripes with the game, went out the window due to the way they've been behaving (ie: starting threads with usually pointless rants....Then getting all offended and accusing everyone of being Fan Boys when they get pulled up on it, or hijacking real topics at the slightest oppertunity).

The unfortunate thing is, if they would simply have behaved in a more rational manner, they would have probably found a higher level of understanding amongst the rest of us for their opinions. As it is now, as soon as certain names appear, you know what to expect before you even read it. And pretty soon people won't even bother doing that. That will be the greater pity, because a couple of those people are obviously intelligent and could become valuable contributors to this forum.

As to why this is happening at the moment, well it's not the first time. The above does seem to be some type of internet culture that panders to certain types of people. The thing is, from the start of the IL2 series, Oleg set his standards at a very high level. There have always been bugs (but that applies to most software) most of which have been sorted out. Oleg made it obvious in the early days that he was here for the commuity, often responding in person on the forums etc. Then we got an extended period of what we are seeing now. Oleg got sick of it and stopped posting in person as much as he had.

Ironically the very people that drove him away are the first to site his abscence as supposed proof that he doesn't care anymore.

Basically we've been spoiled by a developer commited to his product and willing to listen to the community. The recent debacle with the PF packaging and ridiculous promises made in the readme file (all Ubi's doing...Oleg apparently didn't even want the Betty mentioned on the box) have simply inflamed the situation and made the vocal minority more vocal than ever.

Hopefully soon we'll see that promised content, then those who feel they have a genuine gripe will quieten down and those who are nothing more than trolls with no life and nothing better to do with their time will find something else to start moaning about.

My bet is that it'll be the lack of flyable torpedo planes (that were never promised in the first place)....But tehy assumed they'd get them since CFS2 had them. You have to pity some people.

Jester_159th
01-30-2005, 10:02 PM
Deleted. Thought better of it.

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:


A certain small group of people seem to have decided that they are special enough to set themselves up as the conscience of the forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And some have apparently taken up speaking for the other end of the forum.

Treetop64
01-30-2005, 10:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:

close your eyes. if no body ever pointed out problems then thay may never get fixed. I bet youv downloaded every patch hu? or were you looking for a smack on the back and a "nice job you tell those whiners" if that the case then hear is your cookie. enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence the distinction I made between "constructive criticism" and "b*tching", or did you not read that part?

Oh, and thanks for the cookie, it was delicious! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

actionhank1786
01-30-2005, 10:11 PM
Dont forget that one guy that pissed and moaned about the fact that we couldnt see the big forest trees from the side.

Jester_159th
01-30-2005, 10:12 PM
I sdhouldn't have deleted my earlier post. Was was dead right. I knew you'd be the next reply. You're obviously just sitting there waiting to pounce aren't you?

Seen the sun recently?

And yes. I am. Fortunately I'm speaking from the point of view of the majority. You on the other hand I suspect have nothing better to do with your time and are just looking to get your jollies by arguing on an internet forum.

Now we've crossed swords before (and will undoubtedly continue to do so). You haven't addressed a single point in my thread. You seem to like your (supposedly) witty one liners.

Trouble is your one liners aren't very funny and make about as much sense as your behavior. Your opinion has been stated so many times it's just getting boring now. It's not worth going over again and again and again.

We all have some content missing from PF. Who exactly appointed you as everyone's spokesman?

I certainly didn't vote for you.

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 10:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>



I certainly didn't vote for you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you didn't...I was critical of the fact that by their own words the game was shipped missing a whole CD worth of data. Then when people are upset with that fact folks like you are quick to start threads like this saying everyone should be satisfied...then get all morally outraqed when someone points out that not only the emperor, but you, are wearing very little.

heywooood
01-30-2005, 10:21 PM
pffff...have you ever done anything positive in your life before....or is pi$$ing in everyones cornflakes considered a favor in your world.

Jester_159th
01-30-2005, 10:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>



I certainly didn't vote for you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you didn't...I was critical of the fact that by their own words the game was shipped missing a whole CD worth of data. Then when people are upset with that fact folks like you are quick to start threads like this saying everyone should be satisfied...then get all morally outraqed when someone points out that not only the emperor, but you, are wearing very little. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, being mid winter and all, I'm wearing quite a lot!

And you're putting words in my mouth. I have never said that everyone should be satisfied with what they've got. There you must be getting me confused with another poster who's taken offence not so much at what you say, but more at the way you've gone about saying it. Can't say I'm suprised at that. There are a lot of us.

Go back and actually read my original post. Until it's obvious you've read it, it's pointless talking to you. Afterall. I actually say in that post that you in particular had a genuine reason for your gripes with the game.

Let me stress I have no problem with what you say. I take offence at the way you say it. Try changing your attitude and you might start to see a different response from the majority of posters.

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>



I certainly didn't vote for you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you didn't...I was critical of the fact that by their own words the game was shipped missing a whole CD worth of data. Then when people are upset with that fact folks like you are quick to start threads like this saying everyone should be satisfied...then get all morally outraqed when someone points out that not only the emperor, but you, are wearing very little. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Let me stress I have no problem with what you say. I take offence at the way you say it. Try changing your attitude and you might start to see a different response from the majority of posters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! And you have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the words of the original post on this thread that calls everyone who complains about the missing data whiners.

Seems you not only have little clothing, you have double standards.

EnGaurde
01-30-2005, 10:31 PM
my point entirely.

whiners sicken me to the point of anger, physical palpable teeth clenching disgust.... Solely due to the fact i can well imagine in my minds eye what these professional anti everything serial whiners carry on like off the pc... most likely the focus of a sound drubbing at the hands of people largely fed up with their constant **** who have been forced to put up with them.

there is a dwindling ratio of worthy posts to endless wailing by paper experts armed with nothing more than an opinion and someone elses data.

what puzzles me is that all these problems are well known, but still the whiners whine, and laughably try to JUSTIFY THEIR WHINE using some feeble excuse ie they need to know i bought this sim blah blah.

Dont like it? SELL IT !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Didnt get your monies worth ? SELL IT !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Frankly the forum mods have to shoulder some of the blame. When does freedom of posting start poisoning the thread and driving interested players away?

dammit moddys place a sticky thread that says "complaints in here" so the rest of us can read worthy posts in peace.

how long will it take?

rome burned...

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 10:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
my point entirely.

whiners sicken me to the point of anger, physical palpable teeth clenching disgust.... Solely due to the fact i can well imagine in my minds eye what these professional anti everything serial whiners carry on like off the pc... most likely the focus of a sound drubbing at the hands of people largely fed up with their constant **** who have been forced to put up with them.

there is a dwindling ratio of worthy posts to endless wailing by paper experts armed with nothing more than an opinion and someone elses data.

what puzzles me is that all these problems are well known, but still the whiners whine, and laughably try to JUSTIFY THEIR WHINE using some feeble excuse ie they need to know i bought this sim blah blah.

Dont like it? SELL IT !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Didnt get your monies worth ? SELL IT !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Frankly the forum mods have to shoulder some of the blame. When does freedom of posting start poisoning the thread and driving interested players away?

dammit moddys place a sticky thread that says "complaints in here" so the rest of us can read worthy posts in peace.

how long will it take?

rome burned... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, if you do a quick check of this thread...and many like it...it seems like the most whinning is coming from those whinning about the so-called whinners.

Jester_159th
01-30-2005, 10:34 PM
Jackson,

That is just pathetic. Unlike you I'm prepared to see both sides of an issue.

Stop trying to bore me to death and actually say something useful will you?

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Jackson,

That is just pathetic. Unlike you I'm prepared to see both sides of an issue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! As you have so adequately demonstrated on this thread...hardly.

Jester_159th
01-30-2005, 10:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Jackson,

That is just pathetic. Unlike you I'm prepared to see both sides of an issue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! As you have so adequately demonstrated on this thread...hardly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only person round here that needs to prove anything is you.

I agree with the SENTIMENT of the original post, in the same way I have conceded the vailidity of some points you've raised in other threads. Of course that doesn't fit with your perverted little view of the world so you ignore that.

You, on the otherhand have yet to prove your ability to behave in an even handed and rational manner. You have stated the same thing over and over and over again ad nausia. You seem to believe that if you say it enough that everyone will agree with you. When they don't you start throwing insults around from the safety of your PC. Why not take that attitude down the pub on a Friday night. Unless you live in a town full of nancy-boys you'll get all the attention you could possibly want by about 11:30pm.

You've shown before now you're capable of holding a debate. At the moment though you're just acting like a moron.

Goodnight.

cwojackson
01-30-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Jackson,

That is just pathetic. Unlike you I'm prepared to see both sides of an issue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! As you have so adequately demonstrated on this thread...hardly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only person round here that needs to prove anything is you.

I agree with the SENTIMENT of the original post, in the same way I have conceded the vailidity of some points you've raised in other threads. Of course that doesn't fit with your perverted little view of the world so you ignore that.

You, on the otherhand have yet to prove your ability to behave in an even handed and rational manner. You have stated the same thing over and over and over again ad nausia. You seem to believe that if you say it enough that everyone will agree with you. When they don't you start throwing insults around from the safety of your PC. Why not take that attitude down the pub on a Friday night. Unless you live in a town full of nancy-boys you'll get all the attention you could possibly want by about 11:30pm.

You've shown before now you're capable of holding a debate. At the moment though you're just acting like a moron.

Goodnight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I do get a kick out of reading the terms "even handed" and "rational" in a post with some much anger and some interesting personal issues in it.

fordfan25
01-30-2005, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:

close your eyes. if no body ever pointed out problems then thay may never get fixed. I bet youv downloaded every patch hu? or were you looking for a smack on the back and a "nice job you tell those whiners" if that the case then hear is your cookie. enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence the distinction I made between "constructive criticism" and "b*tching", or did you not read that part?

Oh, and thanks for the cookie, it was delicious! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ah but what IYO is constructive criticism and what is b*tching? if i see something i think may be wrong with this game and bring it up is that whining. iv seen alot of people call guys like gibbage a whiner wene the whole .50 cal spead issue was going on. thay said OH just play the game and stop whining yet there the same people i seen raising so much he!! about the cockpit of the FW190. please dont take it personle but i think the people who whine about whiners are just as bad. if you dont agree with what some one says is wrong with the game that does not mean thay are a "whiner". thay may love the game just as much as you and the thing thay are bringing up may not seem like a problem to you but it may be to them. i didnt mean to rip into you or any thing. i might have been a bit to abrasive.

ps im glade you liked the cookie i made it my self. i added my own ingredeant. ill give you a hint watch the movie "harild a kumar go to wight castle" LOL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

camped69
01-30-2005, 11:30 PM
Just get on with the downloading already.

Treetop64
01-30-2005, 11:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:ah but what IYO is constructive criticism and what is b*tching? if i see something i think may be wrong with this game and bring it up is that whining. iv seen alot of people call guys like gibbage a whiner wene the whole .50 cal spead issue was going on. thay said OH just play the game and stop whining yet there the same people i seen raising so much he!! about the cockpit of the FW190. please dont take it personle but i think the people who whine about whiners are just as bad. if you dont agree with what some one says is wrong with the game that does not mean thay are a "whiner". thay may love the game just as much as you and the thing thay are bringing up may not seem like a problem to you but it may be to them. i didnt mean to rip into you or any thing. i might have been a bit to abrasive.

ps im glade you liked the cookie i made it my self. i added my own ingredeant. ill give you a hint watch the movie "harild a kumar go to wight castle" LOL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't EVEN want to know what you mean by your own "ingredient"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Allow me to clarify:
First, I never said - nor do I imply - that all who have complaints are whiners. That's a grossly oversimplistic viewpoint. Also, as in the original post, I elude to making a distinction between constructive criticisim and rampant b*tching. I did not feel the need go into describing the differences between the two as it is self-expanatory. However, I will indulge you.

Contructive criticisim: When you notice somthing wrong with a product/service (that can be reasonably addressed), raise it to someone's attention (with either a happy or scowling face), and most important - offer an appropriate, educated, and realistic solution, desired result, or change. Also, it never hurts to offer some compliment to the same product/service, at least show that the issue being raised does not totally and completely destroy your experience with the product/service.

The b*tching part: When you notice somthing wrong with a product/service (that can be reasonably addressed), and go on descibing about how you feel cheated, personally taken advantage of, how the developers don't know how to do their jobs, are too lazy, etc. etc... Also, issuing especially virulent complaints (particularly of the highly specific variety, as well as asthetic ones) without offering any sort of solution is, in many books, invalid and not worthy of notice.

Hope that clears that up...

"Treetop"

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 12:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:ah but what IYO is constructive criticism and what is b*tching? if i see something i think may be wrong with this game and bring it up is that whining. iv seen alot of people call guys like gibbage a whiner wene the whole .50 cal spead issue was going on. thay said OH just play the game and stop whining yet there the same people i seen raising so much he!! about the cockpit of the FW190. please dont take it personle but i think the people who whine about whiners are just as bad. if you dont agree with what some one says is wrong with the game that does not mean thay are a "whiner". thay may love the game just as much as you and the thing thay are bringing up may not seem like a problem to you but it may be to them. i didnt mean to rip into you or any thing. i might have been a bit to abrasive.

ps im glade you liked the cookie i made it my self. i added my own ingredeant. ill give you a hint watch the movie "harild a kumar go to wight castle" LOL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't EVEN want to know what you mean by your own "ingredient"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Allow me to clarify:
First, I never said - nor do I imply - that all who have complaints are whiners. That's a grossly oversimplistic viewpoint. Also, as in the original post, I elude to making a distinction between constructive criticisim and rampant b*tching. I did not feel the need go into describing the differences between the two as it is self-expanatory. However, I will indulge you.

Contructive criticisim: When you notice somthing wrong with a product/service (that can be reasonably addressed), raise it to someone's attention (with either a happy or scowling face), and most important - offer an appropriate, educated, and realistic solution, desired result, or change. Also, it never hurts to offer some compliment to the same product/service, at least show that the issue being raised does not totally and completely destroy your experience with the product/service.

The b*tching part: When you notice somthing wrong with a product/service (that can be reasonably addressed), and go on descibing about how you feel cheated, personally taken advantage of, how the developers don't know how to do their jobs, are too lazy, etc. etc... Also, issuing especially virulent complaints (particularly the highly specific variety, as well as asthetic ones) without offering any sort of solution is, in many books, invalid and not worthy of notice.

Hope that clears that up...

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>1CMaddox itself plays a role in the whole situation when it comes to PF. Several weeks after the two weeks following the U.S. release date, there were several threads started and posted directly to 1CMaddox, asking for an official update on the missing data and other issues from someone in authority; no speculation or rumor.

Those threads were met with silence from 1CMaddox and righteous flames from part of the community. Yes, we've had some patches but we also still have English Battleships in Pearl Harbor and nothing from 1CMaddox regarding the rest of the missing data, aircraft, maps, etc.

Myself, I don't even want to know the specifics regarding any legal action. For instance, if there will be no flyable Avenger simply tell the community there will be no flyable Avenger.

What is the status on the Betty, maps, U.S. and Japanese naval vessels, etc? A periodic update is far better then nothing at all.

Treetop64
01-31-2005, 12:27 AM
Jackson,

I totally agree, man. I especially don't like the fact that there are no American and Japanese battleships (especially the Yamatos), and none of those uber-cool Japanese heavy cruisers. However, PF-FB-AEP is still one hell of a kit, and there is enough in the game to keep me happy and busy until additions (hopefully) come. Knowing Oleg's and his crew's track record in addressing these sorts of issues, I'm not too worried that some additions/fixes won't come. Even if they don't, what is already there is first-rate, and is much enjoyed and appreciated.

"Treetop"

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
Jackson,

I totally agree, man. I especially don't like the fact that there are no American and Japanese battleships (especially the Yamatos), and none of those uber-cool Japanese heavy cruisers. However, PF-FB-AEP is still one hell of a kit, and there is enough in the game to keep me happy and busy until additions (hopefully) come. Knowing Oleg's and his crew's track record in addressing these sorts of issues, I'm not too worried that some additions/fixes won't come. Even if they don't, what is already there is first-rate, and is much enjoyed and appreciated.

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm glad that you are happy with what you received, there are some who aren't and we don't see any real information coming from 1CMaddox regarding the issues that concern us.

Their track record does nothing to explain their current silence and refusal to respond to polite and direct questions on their own forum. A simple periodic update, and some direct answers regarding the future of some aircraft, would end the speculation.

Treetop64
01-31-2005, 12:45 AM
Maybe they're busy making the actual changes and additions requested by the community. Maybe they're busy fighting lawyers so that they may include certain, highly desirable aircraft in the sim. I really don't believe they'll just completely leave everyone in the dark. The updates and answers (good or bad) will almost certainly come, though maybe not quite as rapidly as some of us would like.

fordfan25
01-31-2005, 12:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:ah but what IYO is constructive criticism and what is b*tching? if i see something i think may be wrong with this game and bring it up is that whining. iv seen alot of people call guys like gibbage a whiner wene the whole .50 cal spead issue was going on. thay said OH just play the game and stop whining yet there the same people i seen raising so much he!! about the cockpit of the FW190. please dont take it personle but i think the people who whine about whiners are just as bad. if you dont agree with what some one says is wrong with the game that does not mean thay are a "whiner". thay may love the game just as much as you and the thing thay are bringing up may not seem like a problem to you but it may be to them. i didnt mean to rip into you or any thing. i might have been a bit to abrasive.

ps im glade you liked the cookie i made it my self. i added my own ingredeant. ill give you a hint watch the movie "harild a kumar go to wight castle" LOL. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't EVEN want to know what you mean by your own "ingredient"! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Allow me to clarify:
First, I never said - nor do I imply - that all who have complaints are whiners. That's a grossly oversimplistic viewpoint. Also, as in the original post, I elude to making a distinction between constructive criticisim and rampant b*tching. I did not feel the need go into describing the differences between the two as it is self-expanatory. However, I will indulge you.

Contructive criticisim: When you notice somthing wrong with a product/service (that can be reasonably addressed), raise it to someone's attention (with either a happy or scowling face), and most important - offer an appropriate, educated, and realistic solution, desired result, or change. Also, it never hurts to offer some compliment to the same product/service, at least show that the issue being raised does not totally and completely destroy your experience with the product/service.

The b*tching part: When you notice somthing wrong with a product/service (that can be reasonably addressed), and go on descibing about how you feel cheated, personally taken advantage of, how the developers don't know how to do their jobs, are too lazy, etc. etc... Also, issuing especially virulent complaints (particularly of the highly specific variety, as well as asthetic ones) without offering any sort of solution is, in many books, invalid and not worthy of notice.

Hope that clears that up...

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok fair enough. my problem is all the guys who think its there place to correct someone else on every little thing. thats what mod's are for. im not talking about you. all im saying is iv been in this forum for what 2 almost 3 years now if im not mistaken. i was hear long befor thay changed the sites lay out and erased my real join up date. back when Rayban was the terror of the sky's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. in fact this is the first forum i had ever been to. and iv seen a good size chunk of the people who post hear attack others because thay say something is wrong hear or there. some think just because something is not important to them than it doesnt need to be fixed. iv noticed this alot and normaly i dont say anything. "cause im such a awsome, kool, rad, good looking, nice guy " "shut up haywooood lol" but just because Joe Hoe says the speed on the hellcat may not be right or Sally fourfingers says the dive rate is to fast on the Zero does not make them a whiner. it just something that has agravated me for awhile and i gusse i took it out on you. sorry but hay atleast for a short time you had a real purpose in life. .... my target ....the safest place to be hahah

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 12:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
Maybe they're busy making the actual changes and additions requested by the community. Maybe they're busy fighting lawyers so that they may include certain, highly desirable aircraft in the sim. I really don't believe they'll just completely leave everyone in the dark. The updates and answers (good or bad) will almost certainly come, though maybe not quite as rapidly as some of us would like. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The problem with maybes is they swing both directions. If they are so busy, since the U.S. release of PF, to provide some quick and simply updates, maybe the problems at 1CMaddox are far greater then we know.

What isn't a maybe is that they ARE leaving everyone in the dark.

Start a thread and ask a simple question directly to anyone at 1CMaddox: When can we expect U.S. ships at Pearl Harbor? This isn't simply an astetics issue. Pearl Harbor is where the war started for the United States. The USS Arizona is the last resting place for many of our sailors. To have such a beautifully rendered locale and English ships is ludicrous and should have never even been released like that IMO.

Want to bet on what will happen to the thread? My bet is it will be ignored by 1CMaddox, that it will get flammed unbelievably and locked by a moderator for speaking heresay.

Jester_159th
01-31-2005, 03:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Jackson,

That is just pathetic. Unlike you I'm prepared to see both sides of an issue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! As you have so adequately demonstrated on this thread...hardly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only person round here that needs to prove anything is you.

I agree with the SENTIMENT of the original post, in the same way I have conceded the vailidity of some points you've raised in other threads. Of course that doesn't fit with your perverted little view of the world so you ignore that.

You, on the otherhand have yet to prove your ability to behave in an even handed and rational manner. You have stated the same thing over and over and over again ad nausia. You seem to believe that if you say it enough that everyone will agree with you. When they don't you start throwing insults around from the safety of your PC. Why not take that attitude down the pub on a Friday night. Unless you live in a town full of nancy-boys you'll get all the attention you could possibly want by about 11:30pm.

You've shown before now you're capable of holding a debate. At the moment though you're just acting like a moron.

Goodnight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I do get a kick out of reading the terms "even handed" and "rational" in a post with some much anger and some interesting personal issues in it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Anger? No you totally misread what I've written (assuming you bothered to read it at all...which I doubt). You aren't worth that much effort. It's more the type of irritation you feel when dealing with a petulant little child that you provoke in me.

And personal issues? Hardly. Another typical little jibe that you seem to think so clever, but actually just make you look a fool.

Feel free to come back with one of your (not so) clever one line responses. Or try going back to my original post and refute some of the points made there. Either way, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I'm betting you go with the supposedly witty one liner.

Badsight.
01-31-2005, 04:24 AM
Jester159th , cut off the response supply & they die out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

because this is just he said , she said

ElAurens
01-31-2005, 05:44 AM
Listen up jackson.

All of us are disappointed with the lack of one item or another from PF. All of us had expectations of some sort about what PF should or should not have had in it. UBI in their usual lack of wisdom chose to rush the release, over the objections of the developer, to try to take advantage of the Christmas season. Also they made extravagant claims on the packaging that were not the claims or promises of the developer. We all know this. Oleg knows this. Due to contractural obligation there is nothing Oleg could do about it. Nothing.

Now, if you had been around IL2 for as long as many of us have you would know that in time Oleg has come through for this community, time after time. He will again. The "patch", or "add on" (whichever you perfer to call it) is going to be jaw dropping. Trust me. I will even go out on a limb and predict that it will eclipse anything we have seen so far, at least as far as "patches" go.

So, have some patience jackson. Simply popping into every thread on this board and playing the indignant customer will not make the machinery of development move any faster.

Be sure.

Bearcat99
01-31-2005, 07:10 AM
What BP El said..... besides..... this whole issue has been beaten,shot,stabbed and drowned.. it has become the Rasputin of issues here..... and most of the loudest complainers are some of the newest members who have come here from a sim that was released unplayable..... or its predecessor that was actually better than it... but which still was arcade city upon release.

And yes... at this point all of you little buggers are whiners..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif I suggest you just try to enjoy what you have for the moment, since no matter how much you voice your complaints it wont change anything.... and check out this thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=7871098962) just to see the other side of the coin. But then that thread is probably too positive for you..... not enough moaning, wailing and gnashing of teeth. Be patient..... the journey for the last installment of this series is only about half over. There is more to come believe it. I cant help but wonder though....... if you guys who are complaining so vociferously and feel so cheated by 1C are crying so loud about this... well h@ll you guys must have had anyurisms over CFS huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gifEspecially before the 1% crew and all those other modder fockers... got hold of the thing and actually made it something tolerable. I bet if some of you hadnt dropped dead upon boot up we wpould probably have more of you running around here waving yiour virtual arms and running into walls and what not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BSS_Goat
01-31-2005, 08:40 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and most of the loudest complainers are some of the newest members who have come here from a sim that was released unplayable..... or its predecessor that was actually better than it... but which still was arcade city upon release.
[QUOTE]

****snicker snicker**** http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif
Man these IL2 mods are mean http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Get'em Bear!

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Jackson,

That is just pathetic. Unlike you I'm prepared to see both sides of an issue.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! As you have so adequately demonstrated on this thread...hardly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only person round here that needs to prove anything is you.

I agree with the SENTIMENT of the original post, in the same way I have conceded the vailidity of some points you've raised in other threads. Of course that doesn't fit with your perverted little view of the world so you ignore that.

You, on the otherhand have yet to prove your ability to behave in an even handed and rational manner. You have stated the same thing over and over and over again ad nausia. You seem to believe that if you say it enough that everyone will agree with you. When they don't you start throwing insults around from the safety of your PC. Why not take that attitude down the pub on a Friday night. Unless you live in a town full of nancy-boys you'll get all the attention you could possibly want by about 11:30pm.

You've shown before now you're capable of holding a debate. At the moment though you're just acting like a moron.

Goodnight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I do get a kick out of reading the terms "even handed" and "rational" in a post with some much anger and some interesting personal issues in it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Anger? No you totally misread what I've written (assuming you bothered to read it at all...which I doubt). You aren't worth that much effort. It's more the type of irritation you feel when dealing with a petulant little child that you provoke in me.

And personal issues? Hardly. Another typical little jibe that you seem to think so clever, but actually just make you look a fool.

Feel free to come back with one of your (not so) clever one line responses. Or try going back to my original post and refute some of the points made there. Either way, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I'm betting you go with the supposedly witty one liner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! I'm having a difficult time decided which is more entertaining, your double standards or anger issues.

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Simply popping into every thread on this board and playing the indignant customer...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The ignorant customer? That would be the person who simply accepts a two-thirds completed product and is not only happy with it, they expect everyone to be happy with them.

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
this whole issue has been beaten,shot,stabbed and drowned.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, about the only thing that hasn't been done with the issue is 1CMaddox actually addressing it.

Jester_159th
01-31-2005, 04:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/Jester_159th/MinorityWanted.jpg

Guess we all know who the successful applicant for this one was now don't we?

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jester_159th:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v185/Jester_159th/MinorityWanted.jpg

Guess we all know who the successful applicant for this one was now don't we? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Looking for a job? I hear the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders are short a couple on their squad.

Treetop64
01-31-2005, 05:04 PM
Seriously, Jackson, don't you think you've played the devil's advocate long enough? It's getting old, man. Your entire string of responses in this thread show a pattern. It doesn't matter who says what about anything, you will find a way to put a negative spin on it.

Frankly (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) if your forum name is anything to go by, that is, if you really are a "CWO", then you are making a bad example of yourself. I personally would not want to serve alongside a fellow officer, commissioned or otherwise, who continuously makes it a point to find the bad side of everything. VERY bad for morale...

"Treetop"

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
Seriously, Jackson, don't you think you've played the devil's advocate long enough? It's getting old, man. Your entire string of responses in this thread show a pattern. It doesn't matter who says what about anything, you will find a way to put a negative spin on it.

Frankly (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) if your forum name is anything to go by, that is, if you really are a "CWO", then you are setting a bad example for yourself. I personally would not want to serve alongside a fellow officer, commissioned or otherwise, who continuously makes it a point to find the bad side of everything. VERY bad for morale...

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! For the most part my reponses have been far more civil then the posts they respond to but I have notice how adopting and defending double standards on this forum often takes the place of substance.

Treetop64
01-31-2005, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
LOL! For the most part my reponses have been far more civil then the posts they respond to but I have notice how adopting and defending double standards on this forum often takes the place of substance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not certain as to what "double standards" you are referring to, sir, but what you said is purely a matter of opinion, as that is your right. However, if what you say has anything to do with your simplistic assumption that I labled all who complain as whiners, then scroll back a bit to find my clarification on the matter - please read, understand, and comprehend what was written.

This is my last response to you. There is no point in continuing this with you any further.

Good day, sir.

"Treetop"

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treetop64:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
LOL! For the most part my reponses have been far more civil then the posts they respond to but I have notice how adopting and defending double standards on this forum often takes the place of substance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not certain as to what "double standards" you are referring to...

"Treetop" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That would be the one you keep trying to ignore while defending it. No wonder your ideas regarding morale and leadership seem so....cyber.

Chivas
01-31-2005, 06:01 PM
Oleg will patch Pacific Fighters eventually. Those people with the patience of a knat will have to remind us with endless posts of how outraged they are.

heywooood
01-31-2005, 06:02 PM
ufff - still at it, eh?... well your mom called - she says if you dont stop doing that, your palms are gonna grow hair...whatever that means....
so why dont you run along and find a new game to play jackson, the grownups are getting cranky.

cwojackson
01-31-2005, 06:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
ufff - still at it, eh?... well your mom called - she says if you dont stop doing that, your palms are gonna grow hair...whatever that means....
so why dont you run along and find a new game to play jackson, the grownups are getting cranky. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A classic example of what I've been saying all along...thanks for reinforcing the image. Pssssst. It's hardly "grownup".