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GH_Klingstroem
08-08-2005, 04:26 PM
How would it be if the blacking out effect, depended on ur experience? Say that I, as a new pilot, with no experience will black out much earlier than an experienced pilot. That way, when im flying a spitfire vs an experienced 109 he would actually be able to outturn me for example(cause i black out faster) or be able to pull up sharper from a dive for example...
would this be hard to implent into a game? depending on the amount of hours in the air my career pilot has, the game can just work out how much G that certain pilot can pull.
Ive read many times that what decided who would win a turnfight depened who could pull most G without blacking out. Maybe this can be implented online somehow as well, depending on the number of kills one has got?

i think this would increase the level of realism alot!
what do u guys think?

Dexmeister
08-09-2005, 11:05 AM
This was implemented in CFS3. Not a bad idea IMO.

LEXX_Luthor
08-09-2005, 12:49 PM
Good idea for Offline play. As a pilot career advances, you can pull more Gees. This is one of many ways one may model Newbie combat pilots. Another is restricting Newbie combat pilot vision by restricting visual Zoom levels. Lack of wide angle view would model Newbies' lack of experience in watching the sky and lack of situational awareness. For Online Dogfighter gaming, everybody will join the server as "JG_Hartmann," and pull 20 Gees.

GH::
Maybe this can be implented online somehow as well, depending on the number of kills one has got?
Major Boyington (Black Sheep) regularly out-turned and out-Gee'd all other Marine pilots in training before the war, and none of them had any kills. Something else is going on here.

LEXX_Luthor
08-09-2005, 01:51 PM
I am thinking that these Offline Newbie restrictions in effectivness could be modeled for the computer AI pilots. Or, maybe they are best abstracted, and included in the traditional flight sim "AI skill level" concept.

GH_Klingstroem
08-09-2005, 04:16 PM
yeah the online would be a problem unless the server can remember how many kills u have. Somethig like some of the online wars at hyperlobby. But i agree that some pilots like Boyington could pull more Gs naturally and its unfair to them, but how else could this be done?

Stigler_9_JG52
08-09-2005, 04:52 PM
G-force resistance has nothing to do with pilot experience. It has to do with training (which is PRE-kill experience, an important distinction), and it has to do with physical makeup and conditioning. It also has to do with the plane you're in and the posture that imposes on the pilot.

You don't gain "extra Gs" by painting decals under your canopy...

LEXX_Luthor
08-09-2005, 05:11 PM
I *think* G-force resistance has some relation to pilot experience -- the body and mind adapts to the stress. But, this is something to ask our "real life" aerobatic pilots, as they pull as much Gees as the WW2 combat pilots, and far more often, although everything else about their planes, training, and operating environment are worlds apart.

GH::
but how else could this be done? I don't think it can Online. Although it may be of interest to look for a way.

GH_Klingstroem
08-09-2005, 05:40 PM
Of course Stigler G force tolerance comes with experince!!! The more u are exposed to it the better u can handel it. U learn how to deal with and handle it to not black out. Of coure ur fitness plays a big deal!

Obviosly the amount of kills u have doesnt really change ur tolerance to G force but how can u measure it in a game otherwise? Maybe the amout of hours u have played in that certain campaign is a better way of dealing with it...

Wolf-Strike
08-09-2005, 07:42 PM
stigler:::You don't gain "extra Gs" by painting decals under your canopy...
Lmao http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

FritzGryphon
08-09-2005, 07:42 PM
Might as well have a player creation screen, with points allocated for constitution, eyesight and fitness, and experience points awarded for various accomplishments.

But seriously, especially for online, I'd much prefer everynone being on the same level. Deliberately punishing noobs with handicaps, seems counter-inuitive. Takes the focus away from skill to stat building.

Plus, the ingame pilot and the player should be one and the same thing. You are not directing around a pilot from the 3rd party, you are the pilot. His abilities are yours.

JG7_Rall
08-09-2005, 11:47 PM
How about we all submit a doctors physical to Oleg and he'll punch the data in and send us back custom G profiles. That way, all the lazy computer WWII armchair experts will only be able to pull 2 G's, and then the whinning can REALLY start.

Jetbuff
08-10-2005, 12:19 AM
I'd much rather see pilot 'effort' modelled. i.e. pull 3 G's for a while and you progressively get more and more tired and less able to pull on the stick. The cue for the player might be heavier and heavier breathing sounds signifying exertion perhaps?

GH_Klingstroem
08-10-2005, 05:23 AM
sounds like a good idea Jetbuff!

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 08:34 AM
Kill Score and Physical Fitness.

Georges Guynemer, France's 2nd leading WW1 ace, was a sickly "little girl."

M. Preddy, the top scoring USAAF pilot before being killed by friendly AA machine gun fire on Christmas day 1944, "could not punch his way out of a paper bag" according to one of his commanding officers before he shipped off to Europe.

Daiichidoku
08-10-2005, 10:03 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Georges Guynemer, France's 2nd leading WW1 ace, was a sickly "little girl." [QUOTE]


what frenchman, excepting Obelix, of course, ISNT a sickly "little girl"?


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

stubby
08-10-2005, 10:14 AM
pilot experience or the concept of it has always been an issue in gaming. I fly 'dead-is-dead'. When my pilot dies, I start new 'rookie'. Problem is, I still fly as a rookie with thousands upon thousands of combat hours under my belt. I would love a robust sytem that could somehow (artificially) negate all my cockpit time. I would be awesome to have a pilot age and mature and different aspects of the game change to reflect his growing prowess. Stuff like visibility, ability to deal with mental and physical stress, etc.. As it stands now, it's not done. I'm not convinced a system can be created to allow for such a circumstance. It would be cool.

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 10:32 AM
It would revolutionize Online simming. No arcade Instant Refly that's one good thing. It may work for a structured Online War, which should be Brutally strictly structured to begin with. You hope to Bail out successfully and into your own lines -- or you start out as simulated Newbie (or gunner even). Strafing parachuting simmers/simmerettes floating down over their own friendly lines would become "the practical thing to do" for the first time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif But, maybe that could cost something, what I don't know. It may be better to disable parachute strafing, making parachutes transparent to shells. Using cheap obsolete fighters for Ramming attacks against large bombers with experienced aircrew would be Awsum -- the aircrew having to Bail over enemy lines, and start out again as Newbie or bomber gunner again -- assuming multiple human bomber aircrew.

Grey_Mouser67
08-13-2005, 02:00 PM
Sounds and aweful lot like CFS3...interesting concept but I never liked the outcome.

The ability of a pilot to pull G's was not necessarily a function of experience...but rather physical fitness first and techniques second...heck, we can't get G suits modelled in this game yet!

What I'd rather see is the game actually model the time it takes for flaps to be deployed or raised...and when a pilot is cranking on his trim wheel, he can only use one hand on the stick so the stick force he can use to manuever decrases...I'd think that would be fairly simple code if the developer put it in from the beginning.

I'd also like to see a cumulative affect whereby control effectiveness decreases as planes manuever and G's are pulled....a real pilot gets tired...never to tired to manuever totally but reflexes and the speed of manuevering will decrease as fatigue increases. Maybe it will stop that endless jinking and those negative G manuevers that would just about make your eyes pop out of your head in real life! You can do them, but there is a price to pay!

All this stuff would be pretty tricky I think and be something that would be a little controversial perhaps...especially if aircraft with large pits allowed pilots more stick force than those in cramped quarters etc...