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PapaSmurf630
02-16-2004, 08:22 PM
Been playing Lock On:Modern Air Combat and it features something called Self Casting shadows.

In other words, things like the pylons, missiles and even things like the airbrakes cast their own respective shadows onto the fuselage.

This feature implemented into the IL2 engine would be a first in WWII simulation and does make the game look twice as good.

Might not work as much as it does in IL2 because their arn't as many parts too cast shadows but it was just a thought...

What does the community think if this?

PapaSmurf630
02-16-2004, 08:22 PM
Been playing Lock On:Modern Air Combat and it features something called Self Casting shadows.

In other words, things like the pylons, missiles and even things like the airbrakes cast their own respective shadows onto the fuselage.

This feature implemented into the IL2 engine would be a first in WWII simulation and does make the game look twice as good.

Might not work as much as it does in IL2 because their arn't as many parts too cast shadows but it was just a thought...

What does the community think if this?

adlabs6
02-16-2004, 08:30 PM
Why it'd be great of course! I wish we could have self casting shadows in the cockpits... talk about immersion!

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aerick2
02-16-2004, 08:41 PM
It would look cool I'm sure, but it would also be just one more thing to strain precious system resources...

IAFS_Painter
02-17-2004, 01:54 AM
Yes it would be great - but would involve ray-tracing from the lit subject to the (in shadow) object.

{thinking out loud}

Ray-tracing is needed for casting shadows. Ray-tracing is expensive on cpu time.

It could be simplified by tracing just a few rays per subject, toward shaded objects, though that would lead to (visual) errors.
Use a similar algorithm to the very early gunnery/laser/collision-detection algorithms (does ray pass close to the object).


Hmmm, use a projected shadow, with umbral and pen-umbral regions. Change the shadow form every 0.s seconds (where s is a small fraction of a second), to handle rotation of the subject with relation to the light source.

Recast the shadow to handle edges, and plane angles on (shaded) object.
Calculations are required in the pen-umbral region (edge detection). We know the umbral region from those pen-umbral calculations.

It might work for a (current) high end machine, with spare capacity, and a good graphics card.


{speculation}
The next generation of mother boards are due to start selling within the next three to six-months. These will have much faster data transfer speeds.
If the graphics card takes on the calculations, the main cpu can be released to handle the flight model.

Yep - there's hope http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Unless I've corrected it here

Gibbage1
02-17-2004, 02:01 AM
Well that would be nice, but that will never happen in IL2. Not even in the IL2/Pacific thingy because I dont think Oleg will compleatly re-write his rendering pipeline thats hidden away somewere inside his 3 million lines of code he calles IL2. But maybe BoB will have it. Now that LOMAC "broke" self-casting shadows for flight sims, im sure any new flight sim will have it, or be left behind. There are a lot of graphic features in todays FPS shooters that would be GREAT in flight sims! Like the self-casting shadows, Dot-3 bump mapping and other cool things you can see in Half-Life 2 and Doom III that would have a welcome home in the next-generation of flight sims.

PapaSmurf630
02-17-2004, 04:47 AM
In LoMac, I know they're totally different engines, turning the shadows onto full doesn't hardly touch the performance of the game. I wish I had the link to the post that told us about it....

Would it really mess the performance up?
Another thign is that it only works with Dx9 compliant cards....Shame really

Rajvosa
02-17-2004, 04:51 AM
HE HE! And then you ask your self why LOMAC is so resource hungry! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://stu.wccnet.org/~ecrnovrs/inp150/finalp/sarajevo1/images/sarajevo.jpg

AIRMIKEY
02-17-2004, 06:09 AM
Self shadows in Lomac still leave alot to be desired - the edges are so mushy...It will be cool when they get it right, but I'd hate to lose fps for mushy shadows..

Airmikey

Capt.LoneRanger
02-17-2004, 08:33 AM
Didn't Oleg promise BoB to be close to photorealism? There'll be a lot of eyecandies in BoB and, honestly, I'd trade LOMACs shadows anytime, for a campaign system like FB has and some working avionics, online-statistics, anti-cheat-security, visibility ranges, shareable skins, etc, etc, etc...


greets
Capt.LoneRanger

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clint-ruin
02-17-2004, 09:07 AM
LO:MACs self casting shadows are [I think] render targets - most games that use this method have 'blocky' shadows that seem to be low resolution.

Definitely not an easy thing to juggle into an existing engine without major work, I would think.

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Lunix
02-17-2004, 09:34 AM
I do not like the self casting shadows in lomac and turn them off. I am looking forward to seeing Carmacks shadows when Doom3 hits, especially in combination with bumpmapping and per pixel lighting.

Someones suggestion of self shadowing in cockpit would be so cool! Having shadows running around your cockpit oposite of your roll direction. It would almost be a spacial awareness aid.

Myself I really really hope Oleg puts some bumpmapping into BOB. All the extra detail you could put into the planes with no requirment for extra polys would be worth it. Rivets and panels oh my!

See the example here: http://www.crytek.com/images/gallery/polybump/PBPreviewer19.jpg image one with 58910 vertices compared to image 2 with 434 vertices. This would really go far towards making beautifull airplanes.

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99th Obsidian
02-17-2004, 01:37 PM
I agree with Lunix quote:
"Someones suggestion of self shadowing in cockpit would be so cool! Having shadows running around your cockpit opposite of your roll direction. It would almost be a spacial awareness aid."

I would much rather have shadows in the pit than on the plane. Outside the shadows are just eye-candy for externals. However, it would be WAY cool to see the shadows from your canopy running around your pit. Better yet, imagine the shadow from a plane above alerting you to its presence. Heads up warning from those sun pouncers.

I flew with shadows on in LOMAC for a couple of weeks while I made external screenshots. After that I turned them off to save FPS and because they do nothing for increasing SA in ACM.

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1.JaVA_Razer
02-17-2004, 01:44 PM
Maybe we can save it for BoB?
because raytracing takes a lot of system recourses as it was said before me, he alsos aid that the next generation of motherboard and so. But that isn't really from interest because no one I know will simply buy a new Motherboard and others after having his computer for 4 months http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dash_C.
02-17-2004, 02:57 PM
Who remembers Crimson Skies? Cockpit struts cast shadows on the panel. Pretty cool, but I've never seen it in any other game.

As for LOMAC shadows, they are volumetric and apparently have little impact on performance. I think it adds a photorealistic quality to the sim. Those heat effects are cool too, even on my system.