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VF2_Tim
03-09-2005, 10:42 AM
This sim is clearly leading the pack. The flight models are complex and challenging. For those with a high-end computer, I'm sure the graphics are stunning. No question about it--this is the number one flight sim.

Unfortunately...

The sim is still broken.

My computer is well within the system requirements of the game. I have all the settings turned down (not quite all the way but as far as can be accepted and still see airplanes on the screen) Yet, I still experience freeze ups of varying lengths both on and off line.

In a sim of split second timing such as aerial dog fighting, freeze ups of ANY length are simply unacceptable.

Before the developers spend one single second of time modeling new planes and conjuring up more processor-halting special effects, they should concentrate all efforts on creating a flight sim experience with a base line of ZERO freeze ups during play. If this means a step backwards on the graphics, then so be it.

Processor speeds continue to grow. In their zeal to produce a sim with the most eye-popping graphics, developers have consistently pushed on the processor speed bubble. In every instance this has created a sim that looks great but plays so-so. Why not let the technology get ONE step ahead of the creativity and put emphasis (for once) on playability instead of graphics?

There has been alot of growing pains and much discussion about IL2. Access to the sim developers has been unprecedented and admirable. Latitude has been allowed as the sim matured. However, it is my estimation that the sim has come of age and must now live up to its obligations. To model a whole new stable of planes for the battle of britain theatre and plop them down on the current sim engine is simply wrong.

From the original IL2 to present (with all add-ons) plus the many hardware periferals adds up to hundreds of dollars U.S. Flight sim enthusiasts the world over have invested in this sim. Now it is time for the software to work.

If I were the developers, I'd reference the minimum system requirements for PF, buy exactly that system for every employee and testor of the sim and start building according to THAT user's experience. Build to THAT base line, then everyone above that line can only have a MORE satisfactory experience. The current line of thought seems to be to cater to high-end systems (costing thousands) and let those with lesser systems put up with the short-comings. My guess is that there are way more mid to low range systems compared to high-end. If maddox is having money woes, they may consider aiming at the bigger target.

All the eye candy in the world is IRRELEVANT if it means frame freezes. A simulation that stutters, freezes and locks up is a simulation of NOTHING.

From nothing but the minds of men, this magnificent sim has grown to what it is today. It is PROOF that anything is possible in the virtual world. Perfection is within its grasp. Will it reach its full potential or will short sightedness and marketing hold it back?

Sir-Tiedeman
03-09-2005, 10:50 AM
*Yawn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif *

horseback
03-09-2005, 11:13 AM
I had similar issues with the merged version of FB/AEP and PF for almost a couple of months, until I found the major cause of the problem: I thought had been getting driver updates via Windows Update, set to automatically detect what I needed.

Well, on my new, high-powered Hyper-Threading 3.0GHz P4 with 1 Gb of RAM and a 9800 Pro, the Via 4-in-One drivers for my motherboard were no longer getting updates from Windows, and neither were the drivers for my ATI video card. I had to go to the MB's manufacturer homepage for the Via drivers and to ATI for the best drivers for my card (make sure that you delete the old drivers and clean your registry-ATI has instructions on how to do so at their site). My BIOS also needed to be updated.

Once these were in, I also made sure that there were no conflicts with my soundcard, and voila! The game runs like a top at Excellent settings. There are still occasional problems, due to the ATI drivers, but a reset every 6-8 hours of play seems acceptable to me.

You may want to take a look at your drivers and how recent they are, and check out Luckyboy's guide for optimizing your rig. It's quite useful, and nothing there is particularly geek-centric.

You can also check in with the Community Help forum; the guys there are quite knowledgable, and almost pathetically eager to show off their skills.

There is hope.

cheers

horseback

Blackdog5555
03-09-2005, 11:15 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

crazyivan1970
03-09-2005, 11:19 AM
Well within system specs... can you tell us what type of setup you have?

System requirements that on the box are rather laughable..IMO.

johann63
03-09-2005, 11:38 AM
ya know

gorilla glue or five minute epoxy can fix just about anything thats broken http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

and if they cant fix it, maybe it aint really "broken"

LilHorse
03-09-2005, 11:47 AM
Hmmm....

I run the game on a rig with 1gig PIII, 512meg and a vid card that is from the stone age. I have no freezes offline and only have 'em online depending on connection or other ppls pings. Well okay, also if there's lots of a/c over cities or flak filled bases, but then very few don't have some problems with those things. My overall settings are medium.

I think what might be broken is your computer.

Obi_Kwiet
03-09-2005, 11:50 AM
You might try getting adaware and spybot. What exactly are your system specs? Are you running the latest drivers?

jarink
03-09-2005, 01:30 PM
About the only time I ever get dropped frames is when there's lots of a/c spawning (like the first few seconds of a mission) and when there's lots of smoke/explosions occuring simultaneously.

Athlon 2600+, (only)512MB RAM, 128MB FX5700LE, WinXP Pro. I run the game in OpenGL at 1024x768/32bit with fairly high settings and still get framerates in the 30-50s during missions. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'd second what others have said and suggest you try cleaning up and optimizing Windows before blaming the game.
1. Defrag your hard drive regularly.
2. Run the Disk Cleanup tool to remove leftover temp files. Also clean up Recycle Bin and IE Temp files and History.
3. Shut down any unnecessary background processes - launchers sitting in the system tray, autoupdaters, etc. (there's tons of this crud on most PCs.)
4. Keep your drivers and Windows up to date.
5. Scan for and remove viruses and spyware. Microsoft's new Anti-spyware does an admirable job at cleaning up, and includes real-time protection. (Be sure to disable this before playing - see #3.)
6. Check out Black Viper's page for optimizing Windows XP. One of the better guides out there, IMO.
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/supertweaks.htm

RedDeth
03-09-2005, 01:57 PM
there are literally THOUSANDS of reasons your getting freezes. and none of them are the games fault.

if u have a screaming system and no spyware on your puter and your isp doesnt fluctuate or get packet loss...have you tested that? then you shouldnt get freezes all the time.

sometimes the syncing up of dialup users with your highspeed can always cause problems.

in essence dont hate the game, hate the player

oh and by these responses you may be able to see you are in the minority and that you are wrong. the game runs great.

Chuck_Older
03-09-2005, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF2_Tim:
This sim is clearly leading the pack. The flight models are complex and challenging. For those with a high-end computer, I'm sure the graphics are stunning. No question about it--this is the number one flight sim.

Unfortunately...

The sim is still broken.

My computer is well within the system requirements of the game. I have all the settings turned down (not quite all the way but as far as can be accepted and still see airplanes on the screen)I have all the settings turned down (not quite all the way but as far as can be accepted and still see airplanes on the screen) Yet, I still experience freeze ups of varying lengths both on and off line.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tim-

You've been around over a year on the boards. I would have thought by now you'd know that instead of announcing you're the expert and that nothing can be done to eliminate your gameplay issues, all you have to do is ask "How can I solve my problems?"

Also this part:
"I have all the settings turned down (not quite all the way but as far as can be accepted and still see airplanes on the screen)"

Tells me a lot- you are just not willing to make the sacrifice graphics and sound-wise to eliminate the stutters. I am sure to you, there is a level of graphics and sound quality that is 'unacceptable', but you can't tell me with a straight face that there is actually a setting that makes the airplanes on-screen undetectable. All that means is simply that you refuse to lower your graphics past a certain point.

Why don't you just ask for help in fixing the problems?

Charlie901
03-09-2005, 02:16 PM
I think the sim plays very well as is. However, we have to give up some things for playability. Being stuck on 1600x 1200 rez with 8x AA and 8x AF with all the graphics options on max will bring any PC to its knees.

I've learned that just because you can max all the aforementioned settings its best to accept some humble pie and trade off for playability. I only do 1600 x 1200 with 8x AA and 8x AF when I'm taking screenshots and I haven't minded the slight drop in beauty at all.

Charlie901
03-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Hey johann63,

I love your signature, LOL.....

EnGaurde
03-09-2005, 02:30 PM
hmmm

any pc tech or diy individual will know first hand that freezes, lockups, stuttering etc can be anything but software.

its really disappointing to read the freeze/lockup/blah posts... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif i could safely bet one of two body parts very dear to me that it simply isnt pf or its variants causing the problem.

why? cause mine runs like a charm. I play opn perfect, I dont get freezes or lockups. I just dont. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

hows the power supply into your house? spikes? brownouts?

load every scrap of spyware you can find that ends up resident in memory?

use your pc in a thunderstorm and the memory has been hit with an overload?

is the power supply dodgy or on the blink?

is your windows install so old and clogged up with installed and uninstalled programs its about to fall over?

is your cdrom / dvd dodgy so that it keeps th pc polling for response from it and nothing happens for minutes at a time?

is your virtual memory set too low?

is your disk space running out?

is your pc fan full of dust?

does your cpu have ANY thermal compound on it?

are you a terminal fiddler that unplugs everything on a daily basis?

is the motherboard grounding out on the case?

are any of your expansion cards causing the instability?

dammit this list could take PAGES to go thru.
and yet you blame software, instantly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

aargh is so hard not to dub people that ignore their system and without due dilligence automagically blame the software, as clueless "experts" that tut tut and shake their heads, pointing the finger at anything but their own system. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

pf is fine. I have no problems with it whatsoever. Never frozen, ever. You must have a different PF than what i do.

mortoma
03-09-2005, 02:31 PM
I have an elderly computer ( XP-2100/TI-4600 ) and I also have to set my settings low to middling. However, I do not get any freeze ups to speak of, more like just an occasional micro-stutter due to sound, such as an aircraft exploding on the ground. So really I'd have to say that my gameplay experience is smooth and close to flawless. So you ( original poster ) must have something wrong with your PC or hardware that is causing that. It's not the game, at least I doubt it.

I did have severe stutter/pause about every 5 to 15 seconds a while back but found out that it only happened when I have my new Linksys wireless USB adaptor plugged into the USB port. I had just moved in with a roommate that had a cable broadband connection and going wireless to her connection was my only solution to get on the internet.

So unfortunately, for now I can't play online but I rarely played online anyway. But my point is there's usually an underlying reason you get stutters and it's usually not the games fault.
If not hardware, it could be some program running in the background that you should shut down before you play. It's amazing how many people run other stuff in the background of their PCs when they play games!! Even Virus scanners, which is totally faux paux and verboten!! I have my PC so I run nothing that is not absolutely neccessary, besides Windows itself and the game.

EnGaurde
03-09-2005, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I did have severe stutter/pause about every 5 to 15 seconds a while back but found out that it only happened when I have my new Linksys wireless USB adaptor plugged into the USB port. I had just moved in with a roommate that had a cable broadband connection and going wireless to her connection was my only solution to get on the internet <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

a classic example of a hardware solution to a software problem.

investigate OS first, hardware next, pf last, its not a knee jerk fanboy reaction but the result of at least 10 long, long years as every level of tech support for rather large companies. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Weather_Man
03-09-2005, 02:54 PM
What's broke? I missed that part.

steve_v
03-09-2005, 03:41 PM
Its Happy Hour!

http://home.earthlink.net/~viner45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/fosters.jpg

mortoma
03-09-2005, 03:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by steve_v:
Its Happy Hour!

http://home.earthlink.net/~viner45/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/fosters.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It may be but that little guy doesn't look too happy!! Maybe one more Foster's will do the trick??

crazyivan1970
03-09-2005, 03:49 PM
Looks like little guy admiring the taste http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EnGaurde
03-09-2005, 03:57 PM
ack geezuz chroist...

fosters??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

only reason its exported is noone drinks it here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

dont get me started on that flat, stale sputum that passes as Tooheys New... lets strain some of the algae and assorted cr@p out of a brackish estuary backwater, put bubbles in it, and sell it as beer.

id rather drink out of that damp patch in my backyard that smells kinda bad, but the grass grows well in.

europe owns Oz as far as beer is concerned. Frankly dont come to OZ to drink beer.

Griffon_25th
03-09-2005, 04:04 PM
Most of the freezes online are due to different planes loading in thus making your game pausing to load them... Wisht there was a way to play and load at the same time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

JunkoIfurita
03-09-2005, 04:09 PM
Us Australians can't claim to have the best beer in the world (although if you think Tooheys New is good Oz beer than you have a screw loose...that stuff is bilge water), we just claim to have good strong beer and a culture that consumes a lot of it.

Some Euro beer is fantastic, other Euro beer is decidedly average.

Best international beer I've ever tried surprised the h3ll out of me - 333 Lager, from Vietnam. That stuff is Ambrosia.

----

EnGaurde
03-09-2005, 04:25 PM
no no no fresh cold Tiger, in Singapore.

Prolly has something to do with the 35 degree C 83% humidity, the chilli stingray and more satay sticks you can jump over, but until I sampled that i thought id found the best.

actually kirin and asahi are excellent too... what is it about these asian beers? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

VF2_Tim
03-09-2005, 05:13 PM
Looks like the jury is in. Zero supporting views. Guess I'm in error.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

bigchump
03-09-2005, 05:30 PM
VF2_Tim, pour yourself a Budweiser.
Then post your dxdiag on the Community Help forum.
Major stuttering problems can be fixed.
And those little hiccups too.

Good Luck
bigchump

EnGaurde
03-09-2005, 05:47 PM
arrgh noooooo tim its not about supporting views.

20000000 people all thinking the wrong things, doesnt make it right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

its about finding the truth. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

mulder...? Hmmm too old methinks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

i just dont consider PF is THE cause. It would be the cause if you had eliminated every other reason, including your whole pc.

i can say this as i simply dont have an issue, but i have hand picked every major component in my pc, its not an off the shelf special.

DHC2Pilot
03-09-2005, 06:25 PM
First of all, as a PC tech of almost 8 years I can give you A LOT of good suggestions on how to minimize or eliminate lock ups. Here's my list:

1.) If you use the PC primarily for gaming, ensure that it is not connected to the internet and that your antivirus application is disabled (TEMPORARILY) - perform a full scan daily (with current signature files) before playing. Internet or lan connections tend to slow down the PC depending on your connection and network/internet traffic to and from your PC. Of course you're at the internets mercy when playing online.
2.) If you're running Win98 or ME, UPGRADE to 2000. XP is fine, but has too much fluff in my opinion. XP has too much unnecessary nonsense running in the background that takes up memory bandwidth.
3.) Defragment, Defragment, Defragment. I'll say it again. Defragment.
4.) Update your drivers and motherboard BIOS to the latest (or the latest available that doesn't cause you problems. NOTE: The latest and greatest is NOT always the best in every situation.) Make sure you have the "correct" drivers for your hardware - windows oftentimes will install generic, one size fits all drivers for hardware that it doesn't recognize 100% (i.e. Default monitor, some sound cards, etc).
5.) Run MSCONFIG and see what's been placed into your startup - oftentimes there are apps running silently in the background that you don't need. If you're running 2000 you'll need to get a copy of MSCONFIG.EXE (from an XP installation) and copy it into the System32 folder.
6.) Run a full spyware check using AdAware, Spybot, SpySweeper, and HijackThis. Get rid of it all. Turn off scanners while playing.
7.) Stick as much memory as you can afford into your PC (duh!). For this game I recommend a minimum of 1GB.
8.) Of course faster GPU's and CPU's are only going to help. That's a no-brainer.
9.) Check your running services and turn off things that you don't need (messenger, automatic updates, etc.)
10.) Her's one few people think about - make sure your power supply is capable of putting out plenty of power - with all the cooling fans, drives, (some people like colored LED's, etc in their cases), etc. it is easy to place heavy demand on your p/s. If you're not running at least 450 watt p/s and have all the bells and whistles on your rig, then your output voltages may fluctuate as much as 10% or more. It will cause problems during peak usage. Trust me. I've proved it numerous times.
11.) Turn off screensavers.
12.) Clean your cooling fans and make sure they're moving smooth and free. If they're not, even one can cause electronic "noise" to filter back through the power supply, and be fed into your motherboard, hard drive, etc. There are capacitors that are designed to filter out the noise, but if the frequency is out of the range that they're designed for, they become inefficient.

Ok, so if you've given these things a try and you still have lockups then it's time to do one of two final things:
1.) Reimage the PC and start fresh.
2.) Go out into the garage and find the biggest, heaviest sledgehammer you have and smash that PC to bits.
(#1 is recommended over #2 by a wide margin).

Hope that helps!

Treetop64
03-09-2005, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by johann63:
ya know

gorilla glue or five minute epoxy can fix just about anything thats broken http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, and don't forget the duct tape, either!

Seriously, it sounds like your PC may be doing too much stuff at the same time while you are running PF. It's a good idea to shut all everything you can while running PF, and I mean everthing! If you are playing offline, log out and shut down your browser - that can be a big source of the "freezes" you mention.

The more "junk an' stuff" showing on your taskbar, the worse...

DHC2Pilot
03-09-2005, 07:28 PM
Oh, one more VERY important thing to consider: If your PC has had the operating system upgraded from say 98 to 2000 or 2000 to XP using an "upgrade" CD, your best bet is to reformat the drive and get a copy of the FULL original OS install. I can't tell you the number of problems that OS "upgrades" cause.

Hiriyu
03-09-2005, 08:27 PM
Great advice from DHC2Pilot above. If you follow his regimen, you WILL see marked performance improvement and greater stability, no matter what you're running.

I second his observations about Win2k and XP - 2k makes a great cheap OS solution with [most] all the functionality and much less of the fluff, and can be run very lean on system resources. Highly recommend if you're on the upgrade path from 98/ME.

Tully__
03-10-2005, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF2_Tim:
Looks like the jury is in. Zero supporting views. Guess I'm in error.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Post your dxdiag in the Community Help forum, perhaps you'll find out why you're still getting freezes....

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-10-2005, 09:08 AM
Well, if there are not too many ground objects, I can run Il-2/FB/AEP/PF with perfect settings.

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-10-2005, 09:10 AM
Ow and my PC is now 0,5year old and the only thing I've done to it is to upgrade the RAM from 512Mb to 1024Mb.

AlmightyTallest
03-10-2005, 09:28 AM
VF2_Tim Go to the Community Help forum and post a copy of your DX Diagnostics, as well as a copy of your Pacific Fighters Config.ini for the guys to look at.


I had bad stuttering and microstutters myself for months, until recently, a guy at the community help forums actually solved all that for me. I only needed the NVidia 71.24 drivers turned out. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crashmaster4000
03-10-2005, 09:29 AM
I used to run this sim on a P4 1.3Ghz with 512mb and a 128mb fx5200. Poor gaming rig but the sim ran just fine on excellent settings. You should Post a dxdiag as suggested...Might be something on your end thats giving you troubles? There's plenty of tech-oriented people here who could offer some insight.

mortoma
03-10-2005, 12:38 PM
Whoa, some of you guys are running Win2000?? That is the absolute worse OS for gaming ever made!!!
I remember back about 4 years ago my sister-in-law got a PC from a dude that is in the IT business. The PC he gave her had Win2K on it and my sis-in-law wanted to give it to her daughter ( my niece ) to play games on. Well, it would not run any games at all that they tried, so I took it home and wiped out the Win2K and put a new install of Win98SE on it. It then played EVERY game they put on it!!! My niece still loves me to this day for doing that for her. They still have that computer with the same install of Win98 on it and it runs like a charm.
Win2K was not in any way, shape or form made for gaming. It was intended for business/corporate networking, as was WinNT before it. One is lucky to get Win2K to run Solitaire!!!

R_Mutt
03-10-2005, 12:58 PM
I agree this game sucks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Hiriyu
03-10-2005, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Whoa, some of you guys are running Win2000?? That is the absolute worse OS for gaming ever made!!!
...One is lucky to get Win2K to run Solitaire!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. XP was built on the same basic (NT) architecture as 2K, just with more 'features' added (most of the more dubious features in XP can be turned off if the user desires). The two are more similar in their operation than they are dissimilar (kind of like '95/'98, but stable :P). 2K just needs to be configured correctly for your intended use. It works fine.

jarink
03-10-2005, 10:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Whoa, some of you guys are running Win2000?? That is the absolute worse OS for gaming ever made!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You apparently have forgotten about Windows ME. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Jex_TG
03-11-2005, 05:23 AM
Yeah well this game sux cos I've got a p66mhz pc and it's always locking up on me. I mean it takes 10 minutes to start the frikkin propellor!!

flyingscampi
03-11-2005, 07:23 AM
I agree with Jarink. Windows ME is the worst Microsft OS ever http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Greatest cause of stutters is lack of RAM. At least 512MB needed for PF (plus 256MB for Windows XP and stuff).