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BlackStar2000
09-01-2004, 01:43 PM
There it is

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/109myths/

Everything you wanted to know about the bf 109 but your mother never told you.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
He he he sry guys forgot to post the link http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

[This message was edited by BlackStar2000 on Fri September 03 2004 at 07:58 AM.]

BlackStar2000
09-01-2004, 01:43 PM
There it is

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/109myths/

Everything you wanted to know about the bf 109 but your mother never told you.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
He he he sry guys forgot to post the link http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

[This message was edited by BlackStar2000 on Fri September 03 2004 at 07:58 AM.]

KGr.HH-Sunburst
09-01-2004, 04:25 PM
you nice? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

Xnomad
09-02-2004, 03:18 PM
????
Why is this in ORR?
And what's it all about?

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Xnomad-Sig.jpg

Von_Zero
09-02-2004, 09:03 PM
I'm an 109 fan! But what am I doing here....?

Asus P4P800SE Intel 865Pe/ICH5R
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Mike8686
09-03-2004, 07:47 AM
The 109 is a pimp ride! 1 of my 2 favorite aircraft! But this has to be one of the most meaningless posts I've seen yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BlackStar2000
09-03-2004, 01:55 PM
PLz Guys im sorry i forgot to post the link.

lookatsix
09-03-2004, 06:34 PM
thx m8


very good read and some very good info

FI.Snaphoo
09-04-2004, 03:51 AM
Very interesting stuff... Great site...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

NegativeGee
09-04-2004, 04:39 AM
Thanks for the link......... someone has put alot of effort into putting all that info together!

Good stuff.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

AlexDavies
09-04-2004, 04:45 AM
i only like the 109E series, like i said before, i hate nose cannons.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/T_O_A_D/alexcopy.jpg

NorrisMcWhirter
09-04-2004, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AlexDavies:
i only like the 109E series, like i said before, i hate nose cannons.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/T_O_A_D/alexcopy.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes - the lack of convergence problems makes them a real bummer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Having said that, I prefer the 190 so maybe I have a subconcious dislike for them, too.

Ta,
Norris

================================================== ==========

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Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

WTE_Galway
09-04-2004, 07:56 PM
the pages of comments on high speed dive recovery from actual 109 pilots make good reading .. intersting stuff

JG52_Helgstrand
09-05-2004, 02:53 AM
Cool site. Thanx for sharing. The 109 pilots of JG52 thank you.

Hptm.Helgstrand Staffelfuhrer
JG52 Recruiting Officer
JG52 The Butcherbirds (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v117/Helgstrand/NewSig_JG52.gif

flyingscampi
09-05-2004, 04:10 AM
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm

This is a good site.

_Neveraine_
09-05-2004, 05:15 AM
I like the Emil better to http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif 2 canons are better then one

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-05-2004, 06:32 AM
Some other sources say the 109 was outdated by 1942. Being said that it the cockpit was cramped, not really designed for the task it was intended to do and having few advantages and many disadvantages. Some German aces did amazing things in those aircraft but, they had flown their crates for so long, it almost fitted them like a glove. Germany simply didn't have the human resources to replace war wearry pilots. So, they had no choice. Fight with the men they had, those men would rather take a 109 wich they totally knew, in and out then to take a new aircraft wich they must spend alot of time with before they would fly them with the same 'ace' factor as they did with the 109.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-05-2004, 06:34 AM
p.s. I've flown 109's in the game for quite a long time. Now I am converting to the 190 because I feel that the aircraft has much more possibilities.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

mortoma
09-05-2004, 10:51 AM
Heck we don't need to read that, Oleg does!!!

Franzen
09-05-2004, 11:57 AM
Wow, are we gonna get any of the mentioned 109's in the next patch? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Whenever I read things like this I don't know whether to be happy or sad. It's like someone explaining why things are not physically possible in the sci-fi movie you're watching.

I'll thank you anyways Blackstar, it's definitely an interesting read. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Red_Russian13
09-05-2004, 12:01 PM
Great link. Thanks. I love the 109!

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

TAGERT.
09-05-2004, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar2000:
There it is

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/109myths/

Everything you wanted to know about the bf 109 but your mother never told you.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW The ubar twins have a web sight now?

Got to love the "much debated" statement after every positive aspect of the allied aircraft is noted.. And the total lack of it after every positive aspect of the 109 is noted.. That is just accepted as fact. Yup.. no bias in that report!

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

[This message was edited by TAGERT. on Sun September 05 2004 at 11:13 AM.]

LBR_Rommel
09-05-2004, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar2000:
There it is

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/109myths/

Everything you wanted to know about the bf 109 but your mother never told you.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW The ubar twins have a web sight now?

Got to love the "much debated" statement after every positive aspect of the allied aircraft is noted.. And the total lack of it after every positive aspect of the 109 is noted.. That is just accepted as fact. Yup.. no bias in that report!

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
__TAGERT__

[This message was edited by TAGERT. on Sun September 05 2004 at 11:13 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow and theres nothing UBER on the red side...

http://www.luftwaffebrasil.com/xfiles.jpg

Major LBR=Rommel

http://www.luftwaffebrasil.com
http://www.luftwaffebrasil.hpg.ig.com.br/rommel_ban.jpg

TAGERT.
09-05-2004, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
Wow and theres nothing UBER on the red side...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Got Track?

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

Red_Russian13
09-05-2004, 01:20 PM
There is bias in virtually everything. It's usually up to the reader to sift out the bias and take usable information from a report. Of course, most people can't even identify bias, so kudos to you Tagert.

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

Spartaristos
09-05-2004, 04:11 PM
so kudos to you target???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

LBR_Rommel
09-05-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
Wow and theres nothing UBER on the red side...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Got Track?

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
__TAGERT__
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you proving that germans are?

Major LBR=Rommel

http://www.luftwaffebrasil.com
http://www.luftwaffebrasil.hpg.ig.com.br/rommel_ban.jpg

WTE_Galway
09-05-2004, 07:22 PM
one interesting comment on that site is the finnish guy who said you needed full right rudder on takeoff in a 109. Seems at least one place where the original IL2 was more accurate than the current one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TAGERT.
09-05-2004, 07:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
Have you proving that germans are?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No more than you have provin the Russians are! I simply pointed out the bias on that web sight.. Your the one that said the russians have ubar planes.. To which I asked if you had a trak of it.. No track? Then STHU!

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

LBR_Rommel
09-05-2004, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
Have you proving that germans are?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No more than you have provin the Russians are! I simply pointed out the bias on that web sight.. Your the one that said the russians have ubar planes.. To which I asked if you had a trak of it.. No track? Then STHU!

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
__TAGERT__
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Robban75 said:
posted 03-09-04 11:47
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BlackStar2000:

You are right
What we have is not updated models as it should be, somebody said here once that performance will adopted by the best numbers, i think Oleg said that, not sure, but as you can see La7 have a great performance by the prototype model, no even by regular production.
How many other Russian planes have the same?
Why not give the same to germans, i think this will not change much, as some people are afraid off, i think will be nice let all planes be CORRECTED and competitive, if you guys want to play shooting Duck you always can play Doom .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From my tests, I've concluded that VVS fighters aren't performing according to prototype numbers(except for I-185). The Yak-3 and Yak-9U resemble serial produced machines in terms of topspeed. Climbrates are pretty close to Russian data, the Yak-3 is just slightly overmodelled, but not enough to make that much of a difference. The La-7 on the other hand is much overmodelled in climbrate at all altitudes. I'm guessing the Yak's and the La-7 roll too fast, but as does the majority of the fighters in FB/AEP. The La-5FN rolls according to German data.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
link
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=900101665&p=14

Hey find a Bridge and jump MF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Major LBR=Rommel

http://www.luftwaffebrasil.com
http://www.luftwaffebrasil.hpg.ig.com.br/rommel_ban.jpg

TAGERT.
09-05-2004, 11:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
Hey find a Bridge and jump MF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So what part of "Got Track" No? Than STHU! did you not understand?

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

Kurfurst__
09-06-2004, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
Have you proving that germans are?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No more than you have provin the Russians are! I simply pointed out the bias on that web sight.. Your the one that said the russians have ubar planes.. To which I asked if you had a trak of it.. No track? Then STHU!

__TAGERT__
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pardon, YOU speak of bias ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Then of course you couldn`t point out any of that "bias', just accuse people with them.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/nw2004set7.jpg

We're walking in the air
We're floating in the midnight sky
And everyone who sees us greets us as we fly

TAGERT.
09-06-2004, 02:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Pardon, YOU speak of bias ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Then of course you couldn`t point out any of that "bias', just accuse people with them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As red pointed out.. There is bias in virtually everything. It's usually up to the reader to sift out the bias and take usable information from a report. Of course, most people can't even identify bias.

So with that re-said.. Im sorry that you can not identify it in and on that web sight.

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

WUAF_Badsight
09-06-2004, 02:16 AM
& what does having or not having a track prove ?

you want to come across as everything being correct in FB or something &gt;?

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TAGERT.
09-06-2004, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
& what does having or not having a track prove ?

you want to come across as everything being correct in FB or something &gt;?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Your kidding right? You really don't see how a claim back up by a track file is useful? Ok, let me explain it so everyone can understand.. If you say that XXX plane in Il2 is wrong.. Show me the data and the track where you re-created the same setting that the data came from. If all can agree that the track fits the setting then it would be very helpful in making an argument to Oleg that it needs to be fixed. Anything else is just unfounded opinions IMHO. And I dont care about opinons much.. At least not enough to make a change.. And Oleg is problly the same way?

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

Kurfurst__
09-06-2004, 07:00 AM
Since the site makes a good example how to destroy public myths, here`s my contribution... let`s start with the Myth of all 109 Myths.

"The 109 had short range and pitiful endurance."

Well... 109G-2`s range w. and w/o droptank.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/715_1094475518_109g_range.jpg


I am sorry in advance tag` if that upsets you... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/nw2004set7.jpg

We're walking in the air
We're floating in the midnight sky
And everyone who sees us greets us as we fly

Franzen
09-06-2004, 07:32 AM
You know, all this arguing over who is right and who is wrong is interesting but I don't think anyone should get too excited over it. I always enjoy a debate where as I learn something and no one gets hurt or offended.

Tracks and charts mean nothing to me. Tracks prove too little and charts are only as good as where they came from. No offense Kurfurst but the chart holds no validity unless you say where these figures came from. That makes all the difference.

Tagert, you can catch more flies with honey. Your defensive/offensive replies will only invite the same. Let's try to be more diplomatic for the good of the community. We can all learn from this.

Just my 2 cents. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

TAGERT.
09-06-2004, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
I am sorry in advance tag` if that upsets you... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Upset? What would I be upset? As red pointed out.. There is bias in virtually everything. It's usually up to the reader to sift out the bias and take usable information from a report. Of course, most people can't even identify bias. So, with that re-said.. Im sorry that you cant see the bais.. Which is not to say there is NO usable information at the sight.. Just that it is presented with bias.

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

Red_Russian13
09-06-2004, 11:14 AM
Boy, I don't think I've ever been quoted this much...just for anyone who may care, please don't take my comments and use them for ill-will. That's all I ask. Other than that, quote away...

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg