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flyingdane
04-08-2005, 09:35 PM
Did we not help you during WWII?....Why do you hate us so?
Did we not help save you from the evils of WWII?
Is the fact that we helped you in WWII degrading to you and you country? (If so why?)
I read all over the internet that how Americans were so bad to the British people in WWII. "Is this true?" Did we take your land,your money,your woman,your pride,your freedom, your country from you? We were there to help you fight for democracy and freedom and that's all.
No matter what you might think we are still the good guys here.... (God bless America and our allies in this time of world crises). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

blue_76
04-08-2005, 09:43 PM
starting a political thread is generally not a very good idea..

Dr.Trespasser
04-08-2005, 09:44 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Cheese is good....

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 09:49 PM
"True" but why so mutch animosity toward the US.? (WHY) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif.
What have we done for christ sake?
I want to be friends with everyone.

Dr.Trespasser
04-08-2005, 09:51 PM
I live in Lexington, South Carolina, no animosity here.

Lovo_Kasistan
04-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Is this naivety or flamebait? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 09:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingdane:
Did we not help you during WWII?....Why do you hate us so?
Did we not help save you from the evils of WWII?
Is the fact that we helped you in WWII degrading to you and you country? (If so why?)
I read all over the internet that how Americans were so bad to the British people in WWII. "Is this true?" Did we take your land,your money,your woman,your pride,your freedom, your country from you? We were there to help you fight for democracy and freedom and that's all.
No matter what you might think we are still the good guys here.... (God bless America and our allies in this time of world crises). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not sure what brought this about, however...

I can't remember who it was, but I do remember a British historian talking about the U.S. presense in England during WWII. Keep in mind, while we were building up our forces in England, much of Englands men were scattered around the world, many were already dead or prisoner, the Brits were living on VERY restrictive rationing, and the average enlisted man was paid in the neighborhood of $6 U.S. a month.

Our privates were paid ten times that amount, they had ready access to very cheap cigarettes, candy and food, were very well fed and they were THERE and looking for a good time. At the same time, the birth rate in England did not falter with the absence of such a large part of Englands manhood.

In that regards there is probably a significant portion of one English generation that has much to be grateful to America for, but it was the English men who came home after the war that ended up raising them.

NaturalBornGoth
04-08-2005, 09:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
starting a political thread is generally not a very good idea.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. They tend to escalate pretty fast without serving any real purpose.

But while we are at it, just let me say this: Being German i'm very grateful for what the Brits, the US or any member of the Allied Forces did 60 years ago. They freed Germany from one of the worst dictators and regimes that ever saw the face of the Earth. Sure, they also did some things they can't really be proud of, like flattening whole cities full of innocent civilians. Just because Hitler started it by bombing London, it doesn't mean that it justified to strike back with the same merciless brutality. But that's how it was, and no one can change that now.

Anyway, stopping Hitler and his Nazis was the best thing that could happen back then. Who knows how the world would be like today, if it would have turned out differently? I don't wanna know, really.

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 09:56 PM
Nope" just a question lol.

Lassen
04-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Maybe it's we are the fu**ing dogs balls at everything attitude?

Maybe it's the fact you contribute to the most amount of global polution but chose do do jack about it..

Maybe it's the we dont like your attittude so we're gonna .....

actually.. this thread is NOT a good idea

Lassen
04-08-2005, 10:02 PM
Seen the office with ricky jarves? see how he thinks that everything is right? THAT is how the world sees USA.

Lassen
04-08-2005, 10:05 PM
maybe it's becuase your president is the most arrogant MOFO we've ever had the displeasure to watch...

AGHH ok, I better shut up... (watches as the GM's delete this thread)

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 10:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
maybe it's becuase your president is the most arrogant MOFO we've ever had the displeasure to watch...

AGHH ok, I better shut up... (watches as the GM's delete this thread) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"I'm sorry but WHAT did you say" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
please say again.

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaturalBornGoth:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
starting a political thread is generally not a very good idea.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. They tend to escalate pretty fast without serving any real purpose.

But while we are at it, just let me say this: Being German i'm very grateful for what the Brits, the US or any member of the Allied Forces did 60 years ago. They freed Germany from one of the worst dictators and regimes that ever saw the face of the Earth. Sure, they also did some things they can't really be proud of, like flattening whole cities full of innocent civilians. Just because Hitler started it by bombing London, it doesn't mean that it justified to strike back with the same merciless brutality. But that's how it was, and no one can change that now.

Anyway, stopping Hitler and his Nazis was the best thing that could happen back then. Who knows how the world would be like today, if it would have turned out differently? I don't wanna know, really. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I totally agree with you, but I want to add something that is often overlooked when discussing Allied air operations over Germany...the winter of 1945/6.

The winter of 45/46 in Germany was a bad one; for a nation that had little remaining infrastructure, who's young men were still scattered around the world and was incapable of caring for itself. The Allies (basically the U.S. and England) did a pretty good job at getting food and supplies to the German populace that winter; much of it brought in by aircrews who had previously been flying bombs not food.

That effort was pretty much overshadowed by a better known, but often forgotten, operation called the Berlin Airlift when British and American airmen were again making around the clock sorties to Berlin...some of whom died in the process.

On balance, I wonder how many German lives were actually saved by Allied aircrews?

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
maybe it's becuase your president is the most arrogant MOFO we've ever had the displeasure to watch...

AGHH ok, I better shut up... (watches as the GM's delete this thread) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly why I voted for him.

Lassen
04-08-2005, 10:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
maybe it's becuase your president is the most arrogant MOFO we've ever had the displeasure to watch...

AGHH ok, I better shut up... (watches as the GM's delete this thread) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly why I voted for him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly why the world hates America

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
maybe it's becuase your president is the most arrogant MOFO we've ever had the displeasure to watch...

AGHH ok, I better shut up... (watches as the GM's delete this thread) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly why I voted for him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly why the world hates America <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Is that the current excuse for some?

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 10:17 PM
Must be!!

Lassen
04-08-2005, 10:18 PM
What? that the majority of Americans voted for an arrogant president who wants to USA kick ***??

Erm yes.. it is.. Explain to me WHY you voted for that knobend again?

Lassen
04-08-2005, 10:22 PM
I love how you think you saved the UK in WWII.

You have neither the intelect or foresight to realise that had you not intervened, the USA would be speaking German today and we'd all be saluting the swastika. But given your race relations history, that may not have been a bad thing for you all

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
What? that the majority of Americans voted for an arrogant president who wants to USA kick ***??

Erm yes.. it is.. Explain to me WHY you voted for that knobend again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Two answers really. To people like you, who spout your kind of BS, I say I voted for him simply to tick them (you) off.

To people who aren't so blinded by their ignorance and idiology I discuss the real reasons.

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 10:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
What? that the majority of Americans voted for an arrogant president who wants to USA kick ***??

Erm yes.. it is.. Explain to me WHY you voted for that knobend again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because no one wants to change presidents in the middle of a war!!

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 10:27 PM
But back to my original question why do the british people dislike americans?

NietzscheMadMan
04-08-2005, 10:35 PM
Man, I swore I wouldn't do political posts anymore...But swearing is bad so I will anyway...

Besides, the guy who started this thread can't be serious.

I'm an American. A veteran of her mighty Infantry as are three generations of men before me in my family were.

Having said that, it goes without saying that my family sacrificed much in the name of freedom (from tyranny) and global security. I have no less than 10 uncles who are forever buried on Iwo Jima, Tinian, Saipan, and Normandy; three of my uncles won the silver star for bravery.

Sure, America has made some mistakes in the past and in recent times. But I voted for our current president because he had a vision. That vision was one shared by me and all of my countrymen (that aren't liberal idiots anyway) and that vision is low taxes, dead terrorist, and a reaffirmation of America's resolve to lead the world into a new era of human rights and economic prosperity.

I love my country and what it stands for. If you don't agree...That's fine, it's your prerogative. However, no one in the world should ever forget the sacrifices made by my nation on their behalf.

There will always be those people who hate America and I'm fine with that. However, what you don't hear people complaining about when they complain about my country is all of the nice things that they have because of our economic power and our ability to deliver everything that anyone could want.

I don't begrudge any one from any nation that hates the US. This is mainly because there is very little they can do about it but complain. My nation is the strongest in the world and it is that way because of our resolve as citizens of this country.

Having said all of this...I still think the guy who started this thread is yanking us.

By the way, I strongly suggest that you all read Hannah Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism" . Since it is popular these days to draw parallels between the US and Nazi Germany, I found this book to be quite enlightening.

Also, all you Europeans...Go out and hug an American. Don't be shy...But keep your hands visible at all times because most of us have guns and we're a nervous lot because of all the animosity that most Europeans have towards us for some reason.

Poacher886a
04-08-2005, 10:41 PM
Its funny being British,the whole world hates us except the Americans...and we hate them aswell!!

NietzscheMadMan
04-08-2005, 10:41 PM
Yeah, it's a mixed up world!

CCIP
04-08-2005, 10:42 PM
Guys, stop the naive generalizations!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, the British don't hate you. I mean, REALLY, they don't! They've been allies with the US ever since WWI, and noone in their right mind in Britain, or Canada, or even France, wants to make US anything but a strategic partner.

BUT!

But then - I understand why some Americans may not see it, as they're led to believe that all is in their country's self-interest, but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics. Really. He's already setting some pretty outrageous precedents and getting away with them.

There are many Brits angry with the Iraq war, and there should be many angry Americans, too - it was a costly and still questionably successful war the justification for it has now been several times proven to be ILLEGAL, period.

***

Now please, I request a lock on this thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Bob_Gilroy
04-08-2005, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingdane:
But back to my original question why do the british people dislike americans? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lassen answered that one.

NietzscheMadMan
04-08-2005, 10:44 PM
No...

I request the thread be locked...

That way I get the last word!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this.

Bob_Gilroy
04-08-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that time the dollar will be so devalued that the UK may own the USA...

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Poacher886:
Its funny being British,the whole world hates us except the Americans...and we hate them aswell!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You forgot the Canadians, they love you...well, the one's outside of Quebec do.

As for me, I've never hated the English. Now I do hate what you do to a perfectly good piece of beef, but for the most part the English people I've met and known were pretty decent types.

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 10:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that time the dollar will be so devalued that the UK may own the USA... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, but you will own a lot of U.S. merchandise. That's the nice thing about a weak dollar, consumption of U.S. goods in Europe have been steadily increasing...at the expense to European goods.

Bob_Gilroy
04-08-2005, 10:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that time the dollar will be so devalued that the UK may own the USA... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, but you will own a lot of U.S. merchandise. That's the nice thing about a weak dollar, consumption of U.S. goods in Europe have been steadily increasing...at the expense to European goods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering that Britain is a major holder of US bonds due to the US gov's need to finance the federal deficit, I am not far off the mark.


And I have heard the opposite concerning consumption of US goods in Europe, the US doesn't make many goods (consumer electronics etc..) , and many Europeans are now avoiding American brands.

Major-Wes
04-08-2005, 10:58 PM
" maybe it's becuase your president is the most arrogant MOFO we've ever had the displeasure to watch...

AGHH ok, I better shut up... (watches as the GM's delete this thread) "


Yea you better shut up you british *****. I should gut you like a trout. I cant stand when people outside our area make fun of our leader, when they dont know half of it. Sure hes a little dence headed, but so is the idea of having a queen with no power! But I dont critisize that now do I? ( Technicully I just did, sue me )


Be warned I love meh country more than my own self. So be ready to get kicked right back in the *** if you talk trash.

**** I love a good flamewar.

Wes, North Carolina, USA

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that time the dollar will be so devalued that the UK may own the USA... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, but you will own a lot of U.S. merchandise. That's the nice thing about a weak dollar, consumption of U.S. goods in Europe have been steadily increasing...at the expense to European goods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering that Britain is a major holder of US bonds due to the US gov's need to finance the federal deficit, I am not far off the mark. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, the Japanese used to think the same thing. It almost cost them their economy a few years back.

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy: "...and many Europeans are now avoiding American brands." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, that would explain why U.S. exports to Europe have been steadily increasing.

Major-Wes
04-08-2005, 11:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
I love how you think you saved the UK in WWII.

You have neither the intelect or foresight to realise that had you not intervened, the USA would be speaking German today and we'd all be saluting the swastika. But given your race relations history, that may not have been a bad thing for you all <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, but what your basicly saying is " Had the USA not gone in, they would have lost later in the war like everyone else "

That still does not disprove the fact we helped you people, just admit it ya royal *****.

( people plz dont think I hate brits, I respect most of them, the ones I disprespect are the ones who sadly think their better than everyone else. )

Wes

Holly-Woods
04-08-2005, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
I love how you think you saved the UK in WWII.

You have neither the intelect or foresight to realise that had you not intervened, the USA would be speaking German today and we'd all be saluting the swastika. But given your race relations history, that may not have been a bad thing for you all <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So your point is that only because we intervened by sending our troops and materiel half way around the world, we are not speaking German today and you are not saluting the swastika? Boy, it sure is a good thing we did that because we wouldn't have been able to produce all of that war materiel just to defend ourselves. I mean what without having to build all those Liberty ships we never would have known what to do with all that steel and without the lend-lease program, all those tanks and airplanes we built would have just sat around and gotten dusty. Phew! Thank Heavens we intervened!

Wee doggies! I shore am glad them natzies over there went after them thar other kuntrees 'fore us cause we just wouldn'ta knowed what ta do if'n they got cheere first.

BTW, foresight is defined as the act of looking forward. Since you are writing in the past tense and addressing events that already occurred, the correct way to insult us, you know the people without intellect (note the correct spelling there, junior), would be "You have neither the intellect (two Ls, yo) nor the hindsight to realise blah blah blah"

Excellent point you made, though. I look forward to more of your astute observations.

flyingdane
04-08-2005, 11:17 PM
OK now I see (DAM) I thought maby it was because we americans did something very bad to you brits" in ww2, maby we should have stayed out of world war 2 "you think"

Major-Wes
04-08-2005, 11:17 PM
" sniff "

That was beautiful holly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Wes

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major-Wes:
" Had the USA not gone in, they would have lost later in the war like everyone else "

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You should never lend credibility to that tired old argument. Admiral Yamamoto knew the fact of that. America may not have been ready for WWII and may have wanted to avoid another European conflict, but that in no way made her vulnerable...as he well knew.

He discovered that fact when he crossed the United States by train...for five days, looking at the great expanse of land, farms, people and industrial capability...protected by two oceans.

HeibgesU999
04-08-2005, 11:24 PM
Didn't America starve 1,000,000 Germans to death in the winter of 1945/46? At Eisenhauer's orders?

America just does exactly as its British father has taught them to do.

Britain pillaged India and massacred its people.
Britain kept China addicted to opium for how many hundreds of years?
Britain has spread extreme racism around the globe as is evident by South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia.

Everything America has done in the last 50years they learned by watching England for the last 300.

NaturalBornGoth
04-08-2005, 11:25 PM
Why is it that there can be no discussion about politics without tossing around insults? Can't you guys just talk about your different opinions in a calm fashion? Why does it always have to get personal, even though it is about larger things, really?

Calm down. Step away from the computer, take three deep breaths, count to 10, come back and think before you say something you might (or sometimes might not) regret later on.


@cwojackson

I'm aware of the support flights, they were called "Rosinenbomber" (raisin bombers) over here. But fact is, they didn't bring the people back to life who died in the bombings of Dresden and other major German cities, no matter how much they helped afterwards. All i'm saying is: no side in World War 2 can have a clear conscious. Bad things happened on both sides.

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
Didn't America starve 1,000,000 Germans to death in the winter of 1945/46? At Eisenhauer's orders?

America just does exactly as its British father has taught them to do.

Britain pillaged India and massacred its people.
Britain kept China addicted to opium for how many hundreds of years?
Britain has spread extreme racism around the globe as is evident by South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia.

Everything America has done in the last 50years they learned by watching England for the last 300. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does that include the Marshall Plan? I thought that was purely an American idea.

HeibgesU999
04-08-2005, 11:29 PM
But the English had their eye firmly on the Romans, so they can pass the buck too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaturalBornGoth:
Why is it that there can be no discussion about politics without tossing around insults? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually I don't think there ever was a political discussion, but there were insults towards the U.S. President and the nation in general.

Interesting.

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
But the English had their eye firmly on the Romans, so they can pass the buck too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The English had a Marshall Plan for the Romans?

Major-Wes
04-08-2005, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Major-Wes:
" Had the USA not gone in, they would have lost later in the war like everyone else "

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You should never lend credibility to that tired old argument. Admiral Yamamoto knew the fact of that. America may not have been ready for WWII and may have wanted to avoid another European conflict, but that in no way

Ok heres an idea, let's post a quote without reading the whole post. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Look back, I said " So what your basicly saying is " blah blah blah "". I never said that myself.

I know dang well we could have beat the germans on our own, mabe not at the same time with the japs, but after we had the atom bomb, it was over no matter what anyone said.

Wes

Wes

cwojackson
04-08-2005, 11:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major-Wes:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Major-Wes:
" Had the USA not gone in, they would have lost later in the war like everyone else "

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You should never lend credibility to that tired old argument. Admiral Yamamoto knew the fact of that. America may not have been ready for WWII and may have wanted to avoid another European conflict, but that in no way

Ok heres an idea, let's post a quote without reading the whole post. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Look back, I said " So what your basicly saying is " blah blah blah "". I never said that myself.

I know dang well we could have beat the germans on our own, mabe not at the same time with the japs, but after we had the atom bomb, it was over no matter what anyone said.

Wes

Wes <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Easy there Major...I knew what part was yours. I simply edited your post down to the original argument.

As for handling Germany and Japan at the same time, yes, I think it could have been done even without the A-Bomb. Neither of those nations had the ability to actually launch and sustain an attack on the U.S.

German didn't have the amphibious capability and Japan's capabilities weren't up to the task/distance. All we would have needed would have been a holding operation in the Pacific while we mobilized the strategic war effort against two enemies built around tactical capabilities.

jfink252
04-09-2005, 01:38 AM
Bah....what a load of ****. It's got nothing to do with what country you're in....it's all about human nature. Those that fall into the "have nots" category are always envious of those that fall into the "have" category. It happened to the Roman Empire, it happened to the British Empire, and it'll happen again. It does no good for people from any country to sit around and point fingers at any other particular country....The US has only been around for 229 years, which is barely a twinkle in the grand scheme of things. Every country in history has things they're ashamed off, be it racial relations, religious relations, attitudes towards the opposite sex, child labor, environmental exploitation, class vs. class systems, etc. Do Americans come off as arrogent to the rest of the world? Sure. But no more so then when Napoleon set off to take over the world, the Germans tried to make a Third Reich, the British when they spanned the globe, the Spanish when they exploited South America, the Japanese and their Co-Prosperity Sphere, heck, I could go on and on and on. American citizens need to pay more attention to how their actions play on the world, but no more so than residents in any other country in the world. And as far as those from outside America who like to throw stones, they would do well to remember the histories of their own country....it's just that America is the target of opportunity this time around.....and the global media and internet make it easier to throw those stones than at any point in history.......

PS...its attitudes that some that are displayed on this thread that cause all this strife throughout time, so just chill out and quit causing **** to have something to blab about.

Sorry the post was so long.

Hertston
04-09-2005, 01:43 AM
What on earth has any of this got to do with a U-Boat simulation? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Gouldjg
04-09-2005, 01:46 AM
There€s only one group of people that I hate, being a true Brit.

The Judean peoples front or was that the Peoples front of Judea?

This thread is stupid like Hmmmmmmmm

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 01:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hertston:
What on earth has any of this got to do with a U-Boat simulation? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not really sure but I guess you and I are expected to hate each other. Unless you're the over weight lady who stole my parking spot last week I may not be up to it though.

Pentallion
04-09-2005, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh, but if we'd had that amendment, which we should, we'd still have Clinton. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 02:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pentallion:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh, but if we'd had that amendment, which we should, we'd still have Clinton. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah yes, what a difference a President can make in European opinion.

It seems like just yesterday that Clinton answered the Euro plea to get involved in their backyard messes of Kosovo and Yugoslavia...and they loved us even when our planes were accidentially bombing refuge columns from 16,000' because of White House orders.

Do you really think Hillary would have let him run again? Or would she have challenged him herself for the nomination?

reumatiib
04-09-2005, 02:12 AM
Silly American Swine! Only German U-boat captains here....
There are other BBS where you can air your hollow skull.

SPLASHONEBOOGER
04-09-2005, 03:44 AM
Ooooer Missus, some twot opened a can of worms ere didn't they?

Been P'ing meself laughing at this thread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As a Brit now living in Igloo land <--- (The founders of the UN - Thats enough to bomb the **** out of em!) I have realised one major flaw that is present in ALL human beings no matter where they are or where they go; we all consider ourselves better than anyone else...

Basically all you narnah's who replied to the muppet's original thread post are right taters. Didn't anyone here realise that the real enemy is Canada! Blame them! "With their beady lil eyes and their heads so full of lies..."
Don't worry ol love's dear old Blighty has it covered, we are gradually infiltrating the frozen White North to avert another Napoleon (Quebec)...

Anyhow before I sign off I have to put the record straight; to the **** that posted a complete compost heap of total & utter bollocks about the US learning from the faults of the UK's past here goes:

a) the US is big enough & ugly enough to make its own F-ups both in the past , present & future; pretty much as we (UK) did by voting in Mr. Tony B Liar and look like to do again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
b) The Brits DID NOT slaughter any Indians, Pakistanis or otherwise! They did however defend themselves only and I repeat ONLY when they (Indian's)were riled in protest concerning religious matters, the Pakistani's sued for a more peaceful solution to self rule & government.
The Brits opened up such countries with trade & commerce and assimilated their culture into our own & vice versa and if they hadn't then someone with less respect and ethics woudl had done so in their place (Cough! French!) and goodness knows where the world would be today!
c) South Africa... Umm last time I read a History book the Brits got their Royal Botties whupepd by a band of Dutch brigands and were kicked out of SA way back when so these Afrikaan's are masters of their own past's I am afraid. Australia, NZ... Umm no comment apart from "Who won the Rugby world cup then eh? :P" LOL! Sorry couldnt resist. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
d) China, what planet are you from monkey boy? The Chinese had the Brits & the rest of the world hooked on Opium as part of her historic & on going move for world domination... Oh you think I jest... In reality the Brits were exporting the substance OUT of China as it was considered by the worlds populace, civilised & non , to be a health drug of all things!

Chappies who wrote this BS as mentioned above, my old **** sparra's, go get some real world education - stop trying to be clever, it really doesnt suit you- then come back & attempt to write some more utter twoddle for our entertainment.

To you American guys out there; a hearty "what o" and "slap on the old back" for showing great restraint on thsi thread, whilst I do not hold with the "We won the war" baloney nor do I entertain the Yank bashing that seems so prevalent these days I must say bloody well done lads for holding off from going to DEFCON 1 on this here thread. Top Hole!

"oooh Canada..."

Hertston
04-09-2005, 03:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reumatiib:
Silly American Swine! Only German U-boat captains here....
There are other BBS where you can air your hollow skull. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I recommendend this one. Open debate, but prepare to be slapped down if you get out of line.

Mad Cow's Steakhouse (http://prochelo.com/stl-web/bulletin/bb/index.php?sid=9279f3c05f57b733011e014f948e016a)

Poacher886a
04-09-2005, 04:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SPLASHONEBOOGER:
Ooooer Missus, some twot opened a can of worms ere didn't they?

Been P'ing meself laughing at this thread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As a Brit now living in Igloo land <--- (The founders of the UN - Thats enough to bomb the **** out of em!) I have realised one major flaw that is present in ALL human beings no matter where they are or where they go; we all consider ourselves better than anyone else...

Basically all you narnah's who replied to the muppet's original thread post are right taters. Didn't anyone here realise that the real enemy is Canada! Blame them! "With their beady lil eyes and their heads so full of lies..."
Don't worry ol love's dear old Blighty has it covered, we are gradually infiltrating the frozen White North to avert another Napoleon (Quebec)...

Anyhow before I sign off I have to put the record straight; to the **** that posted a complete compost heap of total & utter bollocks about the US learning from the faults of the UK's past here goes:

a) the US is big enough & ugly enough to make its own F-ups both in the past , present & future; pretty much as we (UK) did by voting in Mr. Tony B Liar and look like to do again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
b) The Brits DID NOT slaughter any Indians, Pakistanis or otherwise! They did however defend themselves only and I repeat ONLY when they (Indian's)were riled in protest concerning religious matters, the Pakistani's sued for a more peaceful solution to self rule & government.
The Brits opened up such countries with trade & commerce and assimilated their culture into our own & vice versa and if they hadn't then someone with less respect and ethics woudl had done so in their place (Cough! French!) and goodness knows where the world would be today!
c) South Africa... Umm last time I read a History book the Brits got their Royal Botties whupepd by a band of Dutch brigands and were kicked out of SA way back when so these Afrikaan's are masters of their own past's I am afraid. Australia, NZ... Umm no comment apart from "Who won the Rugby world cup then eh? :P" LOL! Sorry couldnt resist. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
d) China, what planet are you from monkey boy? The Chinese had the Brits & the rest of the world hooked on Opium as part of her historic & on going move for world domination... Oh you think I jest... In reality the Brits were exporting the substance OUT of China as it was considered by the worlds populace, civilised & non , to be a health drug of all things!

Chappies who wrote this BS as mentioned above, my old **** sparra's, go get some real world education - stop trying to be clever, it really doesnt suit you- then come back & attempt to write some more utter twoddle for our entertainment.

To you American guys out there; a hearty "what o" and "slap on the old back" for showing great restraint on thsi thread, whilst I do not hold with the "We won the war" baloney nor do I entertain the Yank bashing that seems so prevalent these days I must say bloody well done lads for holding off from going to DEFCON 1 on this here thread. Top Hole!

"oooh Canada..." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well said old chap,except one minor detail if your allow me...

The dutch in Africa you refer to,be the boer's and the boer war was most certainly won by us old bean,you hardly expect us to have allowed any different now do you!!

Also on a side note it is interesting to note that Britian did gain its empire by and large from trade..and was the first country to abolish the slave trade!!

Messervy
04-09-2005, 06:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingdane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
What? that the majority of Americans voted for an arrogant president who wants to USA kick ***??

Erm yes.. it is.. Explain to me WHY you voted for that knobend again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because no one wants to change presidents in the middle of a war!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It looks like we are all stuck with him now since US will allways be involved in some sort of a war.
They remind me of a Roman Empire and in due time they will overstretch themselves just as Roman Empire did.
Good thing about Empires is that they all have a capacity to decline.

CapnAJ
04-09-2005, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingdane:
Did we not help you during WWII?....Why do you hate us so?
Did we not help save you from the evils of WWII?
Is the fact that we helped you in WWII degrading to you and you country? (If so why?)
I read all over the internet that how Americans were so bad to the British people in WWII. "Is this true?" Did we take your land,your money,your woman,your pride,your freedom, your country from you? We were there to help you fight for democracy and freedom and that's all.
No matter what you might think we are still the good guys here.... (God bless America and our allies in this time of world crises). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No hatred towards Americans here in Lincoln, England.

CapnAJ
04-09-2005, 06:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyingdane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
What? that the majority of Americans voted for an arrogant president who wants to USA kick ***??

Erm yes.. it is.. Explain to me WHY you voted for that knobend again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because no one wants to change presidents in the middle of a war!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It looks like we are all stuck with him now since US will allways be involved in some sort of a war.
They remind me of a Roman Empire and in due time they will overstretch themselves just as Roman Empire did.
Good thing about Empires is that they all have a capacity to decline. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard that the impending pensions crisis will be what brings the US grinding to a halt, as the aged population continues to out grow the young.

subzero1944
04-09-2005, 06:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaturalBornGoth:
Why is it that there can be no discussion about politics without tossing around insults? Can't you guys just talk about your different opinions in a calm fashion? Why does it always have to get personal, even though it is about larger things, really?

Calm down. Step away from the computer, take three deep breaths, count to 10, come back and think before you say something you might (or sometimes might not) regret later on.


@cwojackson

I'm aware of the support flights, they were called "Rosinenbomber" (raisin bombers) over here. But fact is, they didn't bring the people back to life who died in the bombings of Dresden and other major German cities, no matter how much they helped afterwards. All i'm saying is: no side in World War 2 can have a clear conscious. Bad things happened on both sides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WELL SAID SIR !

KaosxMeach
04-09-2005, 06:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaturalBornGoth:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
starting a political thread is generally not a very good idea.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. They tend to escalate pretty fast without serving any real purpose.

But while we are at it, just let me say this: Being German i'm very grateful for what the Brits, the US or any member of the Allied Forces did 60 years ago. They freed Germany from one of the worst dictators and regimes that ever saw the face of the Earth. Sure, they also did some things they can't really be proud of, like flattening whole cities full of innocent civilians. Just because Hitler started it by bombing London, it doesn't mean that it justified to strike back with the same merciless brutality. But that's how it was, and no one can change that now.

Anyway, stopping Hitler and his Nazis was the best thing that could happen back then. Who knows how the world would be like today, if it would have turned out differently? I don't wanna know, really. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said. Best post I read in a long time.

Happy Birthday tomorrow too!

jagtigermk2
04-09-2005, 06:51 AM
A very good ww2 book called (the Other side of the hill).

It is the about the German generals accounts of the war. I cant remember what general it is, but in the book he goes on and explains the diffrence he found fighting the British/Americans.

Basicly he says that fighting the British troops were allot harder than there American counterparts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Gouldjg
04-09-2005, 07:02 AM
26 weeks basic training in UK Basic training.

10 in USA Basic Training.

Crappy old equipment in UK

Smart equipment in US

1 Full english breakfast in UK make the men what they are.

200 different vitamin supplements with food in USA make you guys weird as hell.

The English bottle up there emotions,

The Yanks go too far with all this phycology and theropy banter then get depressed and shoot each other.

All this is urban myth and I think we should get of our high horses at each other and pick on someone else:- The Judean peoples front cos their a right bunch of Tos**rs.

Lassen
04-09-2005, 07:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Poacher886:
Its funny being British,the whole world hates us except the Americans...and we hate them aswell!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You forgot the Canadians, they love you...well, the one's outside of Quebec do.

As for me, I've never hated the English. Now I do hate what you do to a perfectly good piece of beef, but for the most part the English people I've met and known were pretty decent types. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You see, this is a prime example.. The most crazy thing about 'MOST' americans is they have no real concept of the world beyond it's borders.

Firstly, here's a geography lesson. England is not Britian, it's part of Britain. Scotland, England, Ireland & Wales all make up what we call the UK, United Kingdom, or GB, Great Britian. Our forces combine all these great nations so stop talking about England as though it's Britain. London is the capital of England, and england is part of the UK ... ok?

I remember a holiday I had in Cancun. That's Mexico to all you Americans btw. We flew over NY the day B4 9/11, so pre-the attack.. THe place (Cancun) was dominated with Americans, and despirte my previous posts, I actually find Americans interesting. What amazed me was how little these guys knew about the world. EVERY single couple we met had NOT heard of Toni Blair. We foudnt that so **** funny. ONE american had never heard or Route 66 which is in America.

I should point out, I dont actually hate America or Americans, but your attitude towards the rest of the world is really starting to get on my tits. But hey, I aint gonna argue with you. You've got FAR too many Nuclear weapons for that. At least I know it's only a deterant right? *cough* Nagasaki *cough*

Mjollnir111675
04-09-2005, 07:19 AM
" your attitude.....is really starting to get on my tits."

Classic!
I can just hear my wife sayin' that to me!!
I couldn't be mad if she came @ me with that one!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

HelpfulParadox
04-09-2005, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
I love how you think you saved the UK in WWII.

You have neither the intelect or foresight to realise that had you not intervened, the USA would be speaking German today and we'd all be saluting the swastika. But given your race relations history, that may not have been a bad thing for you all <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, ownage.

CapnAJ
04-09-2005, 07:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gouldjg:
All this is urban myth and I think we should get of our high horses at each other and pick on someone else:- The Judean peoples front cos their a right bunch of Tos**rs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha, love that bit of the film.

HelpfulParadox
04-09-2005, 07:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NietzscheMadMan:
Man, I swore I wouldn't do political posts anymore...But swearing is bad so I will anyway...

Besides, the guy who started this thread can't be serious.

I'm an American. A veteran of her mighty Infantry as are three generations of men before me in my family were.

Having said that, it goes without saying that my family sacrificed much in the name of freedom (from tyranny) and global security. I have no less than 10 uncles who are forever buried on Iwo Jima, Tinian, Saipan, and Normandy; three of my uncles won the silver star for bravery.

Sure, America has made some mistakes in the past and in recent times. But I voted for our current president because he had a vision. That vision was one shared by me and all of my countrymen (that aren't liberal idiots anyway) and that vision is low taxes, dead terrorist, and a reaffirmation of America's resolve to lead the world into a new era of human rights and economic prosperity.

I love my country and what it stands for. If you don't agree...That's fine, it's your prerogative. However, no one in the world should ever forget the sacrifices made by my nation on their behalf.

There will always be those people who hate America and I'm fine with that. However, what you don't hear people complaining about when they complain about my country is all of the nice things that they have because of our economic power and our ability to deliver everything that anyone could want.

I don't begrudge any one from any nation that hates the US. This is mainly because there is very little they can do about it but complain. My nation is the strongest in the world and it is that way because of our resolve as citizens of this country.

Having said all of this...I still think the guy who started this thread is yanking us.

By the way, I strongly suggest that you all read Hannah Arendt's "The Origins of Totalitarianism" . Since it is popular these days to draw parallels between the US and Nazi Germany, I found this book to be quite enlightening.

Also, all you Europeans...Go out and hug an American. Don't be shy...But keep your hands visible at all times because most of us have guns and we're a nervous lot because of all the animosity that most Europeans have towards us for some reason. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For anyone who has actually read history, its a well known fact that the Commies, the stinking red,was the ones who carried the brunt of WW2. Something which is reflected in their casualities. Ever considered why the nazis had almost double the number of troops on the east front in 1944?

RoughRaider1
04-09-2005, 07:25 AM
It's only ignorant generalizing punks that hate Americans, same with the American punks that talk trash about other countries as well.
There good people and bad people around the world. It's mostly the youngsters that start this ****.

HelpfulParadox
04-09-2005, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bob_Gilroy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but your president is an absolutely criminal abomination in world politics.( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason number one why we need a Constitutional Ammendment so we can re-elect him for twenty more years...to anger people who make silly arsed comments like this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that time the dollar will be so devalued that the UK may own the USA... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, but you will own a lot of U.S. merchandise. That's the nice thing about a weak dollar, consumption of U.S. goods in Europe have been steadily increasing...at the expense to European goods. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering that Britain is a major holder of US bonds due to the US gov's need to finance the federal deficit, I am not far off the mark. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, the Japanese used to think the same thing. It almost cost them their economy a few years back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that the american economy with its 4 trilion dollar debt is VERY impressing.

mickalos
04-09-2005, 07:31 AM
Come now, it's just the stupid ones that give the majority of them a bad name, mainly because the stupid ones are so unbelievably stupid. The american friends I have don't think we all live in London and know their friend John who came to England once, although one of them is convinced that world war 2 started in 1941.

Anyway they do give us a good laugh, when you're having a night on xbox live with a few mates one of the best things you can hear is "Duuuuuude are you French?".

Oh and...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>new era of human rights and economic prosperity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You not heard of Guantanimo bay?

HelpfulParadox
04-09-2005, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
Didn't America starve 1,000,000 Germans to death in the winter of 1945/46? At Eisenhauer's orders?

America just does exactly as its British father has taught them to do.

Britain pillaged India and massacred its people.
Britain kept China addicted to opium for how many hundreds of years?
Britain has spread extreme racism around the globe as is evident by South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia.

Everything America has done in the last 50years they learned by watching England for the last 300. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does that include the Marshall Plan? I thought that was purely an American idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The marshall plan was a good thing that helped many people after WW2. The reason however, is the crippling effect the versaille treaty had on germany after WW1, causing a hunger catastrophy and a feeling of great resentment. This paved the way for exstreme groups like the nazists. luckily usa (which was the country who pushed hardest to break germanys back economically in versailles) learned from their prior mistakes, thus creating the marshall plan. I could only wish the current administration could be as foresightfull as the post WW2 administration was in usa.

Lassen
04-09-2005, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
" your attitude.....is really starting to get on my tits."

Classic!
I can just hear my wife sayin' that to me!!
I couldn't be mad if she came @ me with that one!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL, Fan bloody tastic.

What now? Time to invade my country? Which is scotland, north of England should you need directions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lassen
04-09-2005, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Oh and...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>new era of human rights and economic prosperity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You not heard of Guantanimo bay? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, Probably not.. It falls out side USA borders

Major-Wes
04-09-2005, 07:48 AM
" A very good ww2 book called (the Other side of the hill).

It is the about the German generals accounts of the war. I cant remember what general it is, but in the book he goes on and explains the diffrence he found fighting the British/Americans.

Basicly he says that fighting the British troops were allot harder than there American counterparts. "

Now is that seriosly needed? All you can come up with is " The British Fight Harder than the US ".

Well congrats, you tried to make yourself look better!

And failed horribly.

Wes

Lassen
04-09-2005, 07:51 AM
http://www.gwjokes.com/pictures/binoculars.jpg

Nuff Said

LW_lcarp
04-09-2005, 07:58 AM
Theres 2 things one should never discuss and thats religion and politics. No 2 people have the same thoughts on either.

As far as this thread goes all I can say is what a bunch of rubish being spouted from both sides. Come on people everybody and every country has skeletons in there closet and will add more in there lives.

And what alot of europeans think of the U.S. is what they see on TV with the hollywood crowd. What the europeans need to do is come talk to us working people that live from day to day and could care less what some other country thinks of us.

Now if you will excuse me im hooking my boat up to my truck and going fishing

Lassen
04-09-2005, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
Theres 2 things one should never discuss and thats religion and politics. No 2 people have the same thoughts on either.

As far as this thread goes all I can say is what a bunch of rubish being spouted from both sides. Come on people everybody and every country has skeletons in there closet and will add more in there lives.

And what alot of europeans think of the U.S. is what they see on TV with the hollywood crowd. What the europeans need to do is come talk to us working people that live from day to day and could care less what some other country thinks of us.

Now if you will excuse me im hooking my boat up to my truck and going fishing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok, I'm just having a laugh. Love the yanks really.

stereophobia2
04-09-2005, 08:04 AM
http://gprime.net/video.php/reallifevsinternet

Gouldjg
04-09-2005, 08:23 AM
Scotts Scotts lol

I have never met a Scott pull out his own ***s in a pub unless he goes into his wifes handbag.

Scotts are as tight as tights goes. They just aint as bad as the Welsh cos they are the pitz.

Lol

We all love to hate someone. I mean I am from Manchester and I hated Scoucers as it is known that Scoucers hte Mancs.

Then we have the shandy drinking southeners or the northern Monkies.

mickalos
04-09-2005, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I mean I am from Manchester and I hate Scoucers as it is known that Scoucers hte Mancs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, completely true...****ing mancs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Gouldjg
04-09-2005, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mickalos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I mean I am from Manchester and I hate Scoucers as it is known that Scoucers hte Mancs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, completely true...****ing mancs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A scoucer interested in subs Hmmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

You can't pinch wheels of a sub lar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

In fact I dread to wonder how far a Submarine full of scoucers would get before needing to call the milkcow for New rudders, torps, athletes foot cream and practically a replacement of everyhting that held any sort of value.

I can Imagine the Atlantic and all ships sailing to the scoucers sub rubbing their hands for the up and comming flee market.

Get a ship within 50 miles of a scouce sub and your guaranteed it has no anchor, rudder or propellers left. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Poacher886a
04-09-2005, 10:05 AM
GOLD!

Lassen
04-09-2005, 10:43 AM
Why **** the yanks when we got enough material at home lol!

Booshka
04-09-2005, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
A scoucer interested in subs Hmmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can You Imagine it...

Depth Charges in the Water!!

CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! ringing through the sub

Lucasite
04-09-2005, 11:18 AM
"Theres 2 things one should never discuss and thats religion and politics. No 2 people have the same thoughts on either"

I hate that statement so much. Talk about being scared to have a conversation. Isnt it far better we talk and debate stuff?

anyway...

My grandfather served in the ww2. and he told me once there was a very common saying:
"You never know who to be more afraid of, the Germans or the Americans!"

SPLASHONEBOOGER
04-09-2005, 11:32 AM
Well there was more than one Boer War. Now as to who "Won" the war's then that is still very speculative if your looking at a numbers game, it depends who's books your reading; on a strategic military stance then yes I guess one could say the Brits kicked bootie but on a more subversive & very clever manipulation of politics with a defined end result then I am afraid the Boers won hands down .
Remember the British Army in those years never lost an engagement, rather they retired for tiffin with the intention of having another jolly bash in the evening just before supper and after the usual round of polo & cricket. The truth of the matter is that PM Gladstone officially recognised the existance of the Transvaal & other independant Boer states after the first Boer War was called for for Tea. IE: The Brits recieved a right Royal thrashing at Cape Colony, then again in the second Boer war at Mujaba Hill & many other battles, they then decided to have a few pots at a number of other Brit colonies & effectively over stretched themselves. The Brits did not have the ability to deal with them so called on its colonies to assist, Australia, Canada, New Zealand. Ceylon et all all came to her aid and managed to beat em back. Huzzah! The Boers then resorted to a few years of guerilla war fare and then gave up as it was a tad boring after all.
However, this was a shallow victory for the Brits. With the signing of the Treaty Of Verenniging in May, 1902 all the Boers thus became British subjects, the clincher is that we paid 3 million franks to bring them into line then inside of 9 years South Africa became a self-governing dominion (led by former Boer generals). We won the war?

The Boers were as mentioned Dutch by birth nation but by self proclomation they were referred to as Afrikaan's or Boers much as Americans were liked to be know as such after a few years tenure.

Now then look you, who's trashing the Welsh is it? Thats not the ticket now, bog off ya troggs or I will set "Ivor" on you see...(those old enough to appreciate the Welsh Gem that was Ivor the Engine) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif Now as for those Scousers...
Brothers, brothers let us mock not the afflicted; as I say lets blame Canada, the last colony... (Still got this thing about the UN http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif)

Teurastaja_Gleb
04-09-2005, 12:27 PM
I'm surprised that this thread didn't explode into total hate flaming. Actually there's a small amount of understanding even, and this thread may have actually done a bit more good than bad to some.

It would be better if people would try to look this allways on bigger scale. Be less selfish. Thinking about what better for the many than for the few (usually few = me). Fact is that power corrupts, and strong will allways opress and manipulate the weak on every level of society. People just allways see the biggest bully. Which in world scale today seems to be USA by most people (no accusing, just making observation).

It's just frustrating to see people hate and blame each other for reasons that aren't their doing. And because shalloweness of their minds most people aren't able to see that there is really nothing wrong with the other guy. They hate because someone else has usually told them so, directly or indirectly, and they haven't asked themselves is that information true? If it is, is it worth hating?

But what the hell. It would seem that the world is doomed anyway because petty rivalry and selfish acts of OUR LEADERS that we have chosen to lead us.

So to answer to the threads original question, i don't hate America. I know few american people who i like, and have visited america once. What i do hate is some of your leaders, which i think are short sighted, selfish, hippocrites and abusing the power they have been granted. Overally just hurting their own people in the long run as they are doing to the world. But your country isn't the only one. I also hate most of my own country leaders for the same reasons.

Hating others for the acts of their fathers is the most shallow of reasons. It was before our time, nothing we could have done but to learn from them, and hope to be better than them. Ignorance is an extreme thing.

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SPLASHONEBOOGER:
as I say lets blame Canada, the last colony... (Still got this thing about the UN http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Meh, why not. Blame the country that enjoys a higher standard of living than you're accustomed to.

Next time you're confronted by an American who is ignorant as to why many people in the world share a dislike for them, start naming off places like...
-El Salvador
-Cambodia
-Nicaragua
-Panama

If they're really keen, they'll do some research and learn for themselves...

Lassen
04-09-2005, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Booshka:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
A scoucer interested in subs Hmmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can You Imagine it...

Depth Charges in the Water!!

CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! ringing through the sub <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO

BigDaz99
04-09-2005, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
... and could care less what some other country thinks of us.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've noticed a lot of Americans have recently started using the phrase "could care less" meaning "don't care". Clearly it means the opposite. i.e. if you could care less, you care. Any particular reason why it's started being used recently? As far as I know "couldn't care less" is a commonly used phrase in the rest of the English speaking world.

Lassen
04-09-2005, 01:06 PM
Ok I'm going to be serious now.. and that's really not like me :P but in answer to the original post.

We dont hate USA, but if your leaders carry on the way they are going, it will just be a matter of time.

This may just be me, but I am becoming more and more of the oppinion that the USA sees itself as superior in many ways. Now I agree, in many ways USA is superior, mainly due to it's sheer size, but your country is coming over as being elitist and is showing a total disregard for what the rest of the world thinks.

I also think that the recent wars have done you no good at all. We've seen some prety cowboy style attitudes from your troops with a real fire and forget, or shoot 1st question later. Not to mention the unbelievably high incidents of friendly fire.

Again going back to what I said earlier about the USA's snub of the Kyoto Protocol.

People are andgry that the USA is failing to adopt the greatest international agreement for the reduction of some greenhouse gases, The Kyoto Protocol, which has been accepted by nearly every other country.

The US contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. By comparison, Britain emits 3% - about the same as India which has 15 times as many people

That alone sums up the attitude of the USA.. we dont give a stuff.

We watch your kids go on shooting sprees in schools then see some Redneck say why Americans should always have the right to bare arms.

THese are my personal thoughts on why people hate america, but here is probably a better summary.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/08/29/35565.html

These are my own thoughs, I may of course be completely wrong.

SPLASHONEBOOGER
04-09-2005, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Infectiousdust: Meh, why not. Blame the country that enjoys a higher standard of living than you're accustomed to.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meh; I live in Ontario, Canada - I HAD to move here for many personal reasons mainly the Boss, being Canadian she didnt like living in Scotland where I worked for the RN (Yeppers; for those that might have guessed it was Fassers...) so might I kindly refer you to my original post ya spawny wassak! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I was trying to be tongue in cheek but much subtlty is lost on the Net http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Anyway to be honest from what I see here in Canada the living can hardly be called an improvement not by any chalk and certainly not compared to what we are used to in Europe. This would be a whole new debate altogether... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Wheres ya touk eh?

I think we were keeping this quite light hearted but now seems to be getting a tad serious, now I have done my damage I will exit stage left and run like feck... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ta Ta...

king_cam
04-09-2005, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
I love how you think you saved the UK in WWII.

You have neither the intelect or foresight to realise that had you not intervened, the USA would be speaking German today and we'd all be saluting the swastika. But given your race relations history, that may not have been a bad thing for you all <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acually you and the origanal poster are incorrect. The US didn't beat the nazis in ww2, they were done for as soon as they entered Russia.

You see most people do not understand that when 2 nations fight a war of attrition (Germany and Russia) the county with the most people generially wins (well as soon as the defender gets its act together) and we can all guess who the larger country in that conflict was.

All the US did was bring the ending sooner, for this i am gratefull however it is not fair that the US gets to say "hay everyone we own you because we saved you *** in WW2" and everyone forgets about Russia who won the war.

(sorry if this has already been said, i didnt wanna read 5 pages of posts)

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 07:47 PM
Don't worry SPLASHONEBOOGER, you really haven't done much damage. I can see our educational system is at least leaps ahead of those in Scotland, judging from your poor grammer, your nonsensical comments, and your inability to spell. If you can't see the benefits here in a country that is ranked as one of the safest and healthiest countries to live in the world, than I suggest you stick to your words and leave. It doesn't suprise me that your boss is Canadian but hell, what do I know, I'm only 19.

SPLASHONEBOOGER
04-09-2005, 07:47 PM
Infectious, your a scream my old fruit...

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SPLASHONEBOOGER:
Infectious, your a scream my old fruit... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I aim to please. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You sure you're not my neighbour?? Since Ontario is such a small place, we've probably met! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wAr_m0nkey
04-09-2005, 08:02 PM
I couldn't stop laughing for the first three pages. Only thing I really care to comment on is the whole opium thing(everything else is opinion, we're all entitled to our own).

Just to correct a few mistakes. The Chinese were addicted to opium, it was their own fault and the British took advantage of that by growing TONS of opium in India and exporting it to China, lots of profit.

China wasn't too keen on this and tried to squash both the addiction of it's people and the British profit margin by making opium illegal. The British weren't about to let this slow their profits though so they started smuggling opium into China. China started to crack down on the smugglers, one thing led to another, and the British declared war on China. The British being the USA (world power) of that era whooped the **** out of the Chinese and ended up twisting their arms behind their backs to get many concessions such as renewed opium imports, and many new trading ports.

Nothing controversial, just wanted to set straight the mispost from earlier 8)

Now Flame on! Laughing is good for your health and I want to be healthy!

-!Edited for your spelling and grammatical pleasure!-

More edit! sheet this is getting long! Sorry! Infectious: you got any extra cooling on that flashed 6800 of yours? how safe of a mod is it? I've done it to an ATI card but never thought about flashing my new 6800 GT, can you point me to a good site?

ryan2107
04-09-2005, 08:30 PM
Everyone in this thread, especially the guy that started it, are ALL COMPLETE MORONS. You guys are stupid for arguing about something that doesnt make a difference to anyone with an IQ above an infant's. The guy that started this thread clearly doesnt have an IQ over 5 and will never see any kind of an education above a GED. Everyone else that fell victim to this flame bait, myself included, is stupid for arguing with a complete moron. I hope none of you were ever accepted into a college or will ever be. And most of all i cant believe this thread lasted more than 1 page. MODS do your **** job.

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-09-2005, 08:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
No matter what you might think we are still the good guys here.... (God bless America and our allies in this time of world crises). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Germans were and are the good guys.

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-09-2005, 08:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NaturalBornGoth:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
starting a political thread is generally not a very good idea.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. They tend to escalate pretty fast without serving any real purpose.

But while we are at it, just let me say this: Being German i'm very grateful for what the Brits, the US or any member of the Allied Forces did 60 years ago. They freed Germany from one of the worst dictators and regimes that ever saw the face of the Earth. Sure, they also did some things they can't really be proud of, like flattening whole cities full of innocent civilians. Just because Hitler started it by bombing London, it doesn't mean that it justified to strike back with the same merciless brutality. But that's how it was, and no one can change that now.

Anyway, stopping Hitler and his Nazis was the best thing that could happen back then. Who knows how the world would be like today, if it would have turned out differently? I don't wanna know, really. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Things would be much better if Germany and Hitler had won the war. Actually England started the bombing prior to BOB. Hitler was not really interested in Britain as a target. Sorry to upset your applecart.

wAr_m0nkey
04-09-2005, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ryan2107:
Everyone in this thread, especially the guy that started it, are ALL COMPLETE MORONS. You guys are stupid for arguing about something that doesnt make a difference to anyone with an IQ above an infant's. The guy that started this thread clearly doesnt have an IQ over 5 and will never see any kind of an education above a GED. Everyone else that fell victim to this flame bait, myself included, is stupid for arguing with a complete moron. I hope none of you were ever accepted into a college or will ever be. And most of all i cant believe this thread lasted more than 1 page. MODS do your **** job. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that ladies and gentlemen, is why you don't start political debates. Because animals like this will crawl out of their holes and roar. Please keep a safe distance, please don't pet it and don't feed it, it will just aggitate the beast further!

misfit74
04-09-2005, 08:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Things would be much better if Germany and Hitler had won the war. Actually England started the bombing prior to BOB. Hitler was not really interested in Britain as a target. Sorry to upset your applecart. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my opinion, this is a hugely ignorant comment. Ignoring the first non-sensicle sentence...

Actually, I think your cart may be a little off as it were. It is true that Hitler did not want to fight Britain and hoped the UK would help the Germans (or at least stand idlely by and allow them to do as they pleased). But due to a tangled collection of international treaties, Britain was committed to entering the conflict in defense of Poland & Czechoslovakia.

And, yes, while it is also true that the British were bombing targets in Germany before the Battle of Britain (officially targets of military and/or industrial value), the Allies started bombing civilian targets inside Germany only after the Germans first bombed civilians in London - but to be fair, that bombing was a mistake committed by a pilot who was off course and that action was in direct opposition to Hitler's orders.

I just wanted to set the record straight.

And, by the way, I am one of those uneducated Americans a few here have had so much fun belittling in previous posts.

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Things would be much better if Germany and Hitler had won the war. Actually England started the bombing prior to BOB. Hitler was not really interested in Britain as a target. Sorry to upset your applecart. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Hitler had planned an invasion of Great Britain by 1940 named Operation Sealion. The German Wehrmacht had in fact been creating reports for an invasion of Britain sincle 1939. Please do a little research next time before trying to make an argument...



EDIT: wAr_m0nkey, no I did not require any additional cooling. The reason why I chose a Leadtek was in fact because of the excellent cooling that came with the card out of the box. Take a look:
http://www.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200407/09/020/leadtek-6800gt-scan-front_small.jpg
Flashing the GT as an Ultra actually adds 0.1V to your card's power, so you'll be able to obtain better performance than before. Of course, it will run hotter, so that would be a concern. If you're looking for your video card's BIOS, THIS (http://www.mvktech.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=26&func=selectfolder&filecatid=4) may help you.

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 09:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:

I should point out, I dont actually hate America or Americans, but your attitude towards the rest of the world is really starting to get on my tits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How enlightening for you. Seems it was the English attitude towards the rest of the world that put an end to their empire. I recall we kicked you out of the colonies twice ourselves.

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Seems it was the English attitude towards the rest of the world that put an end to their empire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might just choke on those words within your lifetime, so I wouldn't be making that comment lightly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I recall we kicked you out of the colonies twice ourselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I count one. America's 'Manifest Destiny' and her attempted land grab to the north does not count as her colonies.
See, I'm Canadian, and I know more about American history than you do! Wheeeee!

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 10:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Seems it was the English attitude towards the rest of the world that put an end to their empire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might just choke on those words within your lifetime, so I wouldn't be making that comment lightly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I recall we kicked you out of the colonies twice ourselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I count one. America's 'Manifest Destiny' and her attempted land grab to the north does not count as her colonies.
See, I'm Canadian, and I know more about American history than you do! Wheeeee! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you would only count one...you conveniently forgot 1812. But that's okay, so did Lord Pakedinrum.

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 10:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Seems it was the English attitude towards the rest of the world that put an end to their empire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might just choke on those words within your lifetime, so I wouldn't be making that comment lightly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I recall we kicked you out of the colonies twice ourselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I count one. America's 'Manifest Destiny' and her attempted land grab to the north does not count as her colonies.
See, I'm Canadian, and I know more about American history than you do! Wheeeee! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you would only count one...you conveniently forgot 1812. But that's okay, so did Lord Pakedinrum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh wow, you really don't know what I'm talking about when I mention Manifest Destiny do you? Or America's land grab to the north? I'll give you a hint: it happened in 1812. I hope that wasn't too obvious...

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Seems it was the English attitude towards the rest of the world that put an end to their empire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might just choke on those words within your lifetime, so I wouldn't be making that comment lightly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I recall we kicked you out of the colonies twice ourselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I count one. America's 'Manifest Destiny' and her attempted land grab to the north does not count as her colonies.
See, I'm Canadian, and I know more about American history than you do! Wheeeee! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you would only count one...you conveniently forgot 1812. But that's okay, so did Lord Pakedinrum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh wow, you really don't know what I'm talking about when I mention Manifest Destiny do you? Or America's land grab to the north? I'll give you a hint: it happened in 1812. I hope that wasn't too obvious... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! I do know what you're talking about, but apparently you place far more importance on a minor side to the conflict then I do. It almost happened again after the Civil War, when some people thought it would be a good time to go on up north and settle some accounts with the not-so-covert involvement by England in our Civil War.

Fortunately for us calmer heads prevailed and we settled for the Sandwich Islands instead. I'd say we definately got the better of the deal both times.

durex2000
04-09-2005, 10:34 PM
NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

To the citizens of the United States of America,


In the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories except Utah, which she does not fancy.



Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.



To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:



1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z€ (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise".



You will learn that the suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels.



Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication.

Look up "interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often.



2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".



3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have to learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as "Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g.

Texasshire,

Floridashire,
Louisianashire.



4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or "Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness.



5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.



6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game.



Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full Kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US Rugby sevens side by 2005.



You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable! Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.



7. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.



8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".



9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are **** and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.



10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French Fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian - although we realise 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.



11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.



12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Knat's Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.



13. From November 10th the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon - get used to it).



14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.



15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.


16. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).



Thank you for your co-operation

Rageman
04-09-2005, 10:39 PM
Looking clinically at "why limeys hate yanks" I think the one defining word has already been brought up. "Eliteist". Yes the US made a substantial contribution to the war effort, but we dont want to hear it every 5 minutes. France for example was crucial in secureing the US's independance, but you wont here the French bringing it up all the time. Like wise us Brits have recently stood up beside you, even through more questionable wars, but we dont rub your noses in it.

The general opinion of the US to non-US citizens is one of a very selfish braggard. You come across as thinking your the dogs bollocks and by god people are going to be told about it. The reality of the situation is that yes... that is the general attitude we get. I feel that way, although i've known many Americans who I am honoured to call friend. I've even fallen in love with an American at one point in my life. But the US is not the center of the universe, it has to grow up some, a huge part of the problem is that the US is still young(its the worlds awkward teenager). It has to learn to play properly in the world playground rather than bullying everyone and going around bragging about how thier dad has a much more expensive car than everyone else's.

And thats the long and the short of it. Like I say I hold no personal malice to the US as a whole, there are a lot of Americans i've come across that fit neatly into what i've described and as such they get on me nerves. At the same time i've met people from other countrys, including that of my own that to be honest I wouldnt mind seeing disappear.

On another note, we also like an adversery. As shown in the posts here, theres friendly rivalry between different sections of the country (you southern poofs!), just as we have our Arch-Nemesis the Germans thanks to two world wars and the horrors of god knows how many world cup finals. Once again though its more good natured.

The whole subject requires many many textbooks as theres just so much makes up the characteristics of the way our two nations interact, and the way our two nations interact with the rest of the world. So to sumarise, you lot could do with cutting some slack with the "we won the war" attitude and the rest of the world will probably relax in accordance.

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 10:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by durex2000:



In the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when would that be? When someone finds the keys to your ship?

Besides, I'm sure the queen is far too busy celebrating the wedding of their next king. Ah, now there is a prime example of competency.

Rageman
04-09-2005, 10:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by durex2000:



In the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when would that be? When someone finds the keys to your ship?

Besides, I'm sure the queen is far too busy celebrating the wedding of their next king. Ah, now there is a prime example of competency. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh thats the other thing that annoys us... the apparent lack of the ability to detect subtle humour and irony.

durex2000
04-09-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oh thats the other thing that annoys us... the apparent lack of the ability to detect subtle humour and irony. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 10:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rageman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by durex2000:



In the light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when would that be? When someone finds the keys to your ship?

Besides, I'm sure the queen is far too busy celebrating the wedding of their next king. Ah, now there is a prime example of competency. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh thats the other thing that annoys us... the apparent lack of the ability to detect subtle humour and irony. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Subtle humour and irony? Are you speaking of the wedding of the royal adulterer and his mistress?

Wasn't her husband a serving member of your military when prince charlie was getting his jollies with her?

Rageman
04-09-2005, 11:01 PM
I dont think I can recall any Monarchist line, British or otherwise that didnt involve some level of adultry. I think they actually get issued with a mistress at marriage. meh. Besides he said he was going to say sorry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anyhow i'm off to the office to have a cigar and go over todays briefings with my secretary.

InfectiousDust
04-09-2005, 11:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
LOL! I do know what you're talking about, but apparently you place far more importance on a minor side to the conflict then I do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously DID NOT know what I was talking about, because you immediately replied stating that I 'conveniently forgot 1812'.
The minor side? Holy **** man, what the hell do they teach you in school? I'm talking about the War of 1812. I'm talking about the idiology that led your country to war. If that's minor, than I seriously question what your country represents...

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 11:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
LOL! I do know what you're talking about, but apparently you place far more importance on a minor side to the conflict then I do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously DID NOT know what I was talking about, because you immediately replied stating that I 'conveniently forgot 1812'.
The minor side? Holy **** man, what the hell do they teach you in school? I'm talking about the War of 1812. I'm talking about the idiology that led your country to war. If that's minor, than I seriously question what your country represents... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You should worry more about what they teach in your schools...besides French that is. Yes, there was an idiology that lead to that war, an idiology from the other side of the Atlantic.

alanschu
04-09-2005, 11:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>" A very good ww2 book called (the Other side of the hill).

It is the about the German generals accounts of the war. I cant remember what general it is, but in the book he goes on and explains the diffrence he found fighting the British/Americans.

Basicly he says that fighting the British troops were allot harder than there American counterparts. "

Now is that seriosly needed? All you can come up with is " The British Fight Harder than the US ".

Well congrats, you tried to make yourself look better!

And failed horribly.

Wes <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes sense though, from a standpoint. Brits suffered a lot more as a result of German actions compared to the Americans.


The Americans didn't really hate the Germans, and the Germans didn't hate the Americans. They were just really efficient at killing each other. Brits hated the Germans though, and Americans hated Japan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

alanschu
04-09-2005, 11:46 PM
First off, it's ideology, and most of you are using it wrong anyways.

cwojackson, the big thing about the Monarchy taking back the U.S. was a joke by the way. And the Manifest Destiny was the War of 1812. And I don't know how you can talk about this being a time when you kicked the "colonies" out again....unless you consider letting the colonies come in and burn your White House down as "kicking them out."


I'm a Canadian, and have no Beef with the United States. I do find it odd however that, being the main financial backers of organizations like the WTO and the IMF, why they only provide foreign aid to a country if that country opens up free trade and privatizes industry, while at the same time imposes import tariffs on the goods that that country is supposed to export to pay off the aid contributions.....odd.

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 11:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alanschu:


That makes sense though, from a standpoint. Brits suffered a lot more as a result of German actions compared to the Americans.


The Americans didn't really hate the Germans, and the Germans didn't hate the Americans. They were just really efficient at killing each other. Brits hated the Germans though, and Americans hated Japan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

War makes strange bedfellows. Before the war there were active Nazi organizations in both England and the U.S.; they were very popular in U.S. cities with large German immigrant populations. Some very prominent people in both nations were openly supportive of Herr Hitler.

There weren't any equivilent Japanese organizations in the U.S. yet Americans of Japanese ancestry, but only those living on the west coast, were rounded up and placed in camps. Then shortly after the war, relations between U.S. servicemen and Japanese citizens was very good.

cwojackson
04-09-2005, 11:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alanschu:
First off, it's ideology, and most of you are using it wrong anyways.

cwojackson, the big thing about the Monarchy taking back the U.S. was a joke by the way.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, a VERY big joke.

As for modern trade policies I can understand why you're confused. Since 9/11 exports of BC Bud to this country have been severely curtailed while imports of a few military deserters has picked up.

durex2000
04-10-2005, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I do find it odd however that, being the main financial backers of organizations like the WTO and the IMF, why they only provide foreign aid to a country if that country opens up free trade and privatizes industry, while at the same time imposes import tariffs on the goods that that country is supposed to export to pay off the aid contributions.....odd. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

not odd. just capitalism.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 12:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by durex2000:

not odd. just capitalism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish the economics of the EU were as easily explained. I have a neighbor who works for Siemens who is from Milano, Italy. He told me that several years ago Italy was forced to destroy portions of their olive crop and buy olives grown in Greece (it seems that is a very insulting proposition to an Italian). He has a quite a few horror stories along those lines and I get the impression he's not a great fan of EU economics.

durex2000
04-10-2005, 12:20 AM
cwojackson:
have you ever been to any EU country ? Or any other country outside the US ?
Greets
durex

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 12:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Yes, there was an idiology that lead to that war, an idiology from the other side of the Atlantic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong. We're not talking about America's independence. The Intolerable Acts of the British was cause for America to break away. That I will not deny.

Manifest Destiny refers to the colonial expansion that fueled America to wage war against the British colonies in the north. It was America's goal to possess the entire North American continent, regardless of who inhabited it. There, now I've taught you some American history, which you should have already known.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 12:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Yes, there was an idiology that lead to that war, an idiology from the other side of the Atlantic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong. We're not talking about America's independence. The Intolerable Acts of the British was cause for America to break away. That I will not deny.

Manifest Destiny refers to the colonial expansion that fueled America to wage war against the British colonies in the north. It was America's goal to possess the entire North American continent, regardless of who inhabited it. There, now I've taught you some American history, which you should have already known. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually you haven't taught me anything, but you have reaffirmed my suspicions about Canadian public schooling.

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 12:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
Yes, there was an idiology that lead to that war, an idiology from the other side of the Atlantic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong. We're not talking about America's independence. The Intolerable Acts of the British was cause for America to break away. That I will not deny.

Manifest Destiny refers to the colonial expansion that fueled America to wage war against the British colonies in the north. It was America's goal to possess the entire North American continent, regardless of who inhabited it. There, now I've taught you some American history, which you should have already known. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually you haven't taught me anything, but you have reaffirmed my suspicions about Canadian public schooling. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I'm glad to hear that. We don't feed our kids one-sided garbage that paints our country as the saviour of all. Any historian who has visited America and has seen your textbooks will tell you how biased American textbooks portray American history and the American nation. Beneath your maniacal flag-waving idiocracy, you supress an ignorance for what your country truly represents.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 12:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
Any historian who has visited America and has seen your textbooks will tell you how biased American textbooks portray American history and the American nation. Beneath your maniacal flag-waving idiocracy, you supress an ignorance for what your country truly represents. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One thing I have to give Canada...some of you folks are downright funny. And some people say Canadians don't have a sense of humor. Hey, they may not have hockey or Don Cherry but as long as some make comments like yours some are silly indeed.

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 12:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
Any historian who has visited America and has seen your textbooks will tell you how biased American textbooks portray American history and the American nation. Beneath your maniacal flag-waving idiocracy, you supress an ignorance for what your country truly represents. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>One thing I have to give Canada...some of you folks are downright funny. And some people say Canadians don't have a sense of humor. Hey, they may not have hockey or Don Cherry but as long as some make comments like yours some are silly indeed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take that to mean that you have no counter. I'm not surprised. You criticize our public schooling after I make two points that can be viewed as portraying America in a positive light, and a negative one. Now how is that any indication of a lack of schooling? I would say that it would suggest a much more broader point of view than what you have grown up with. Any thoughts?

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 12:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:


I take that to mean that you have no counter. I'm not surprised. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Counter? To your BS claim? A shovel and a bag would be appropriate. We have laws about leaving dung on the streets down here.

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:


I take that to mean that you have no counter. I'm not surprised. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Counter? To your BS claim? A shovel and a bag would be appropriate. We have laws about leaving dung on the streets down here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Impressive. I think we're done now. You're clearly way over your head. I just graduated from highschool, and it would seem that I have learned alot more than what has been dictated to you. Maybe one day you'll be able to open your mind to other possible interpretations, other than those which were taught to you as a child. Until that time, enjoy your care-free life living in the United States of America.

BaneSixEcho
04-10-2005, 12:58 AM
IMHO the U.S. needs to scale back our meddlings in other countries affairs and spend more time/resources on getting our own country up to par. I find it highly irritating that we continue to think we have to be the World Police. Sure, we have a larger military budget than the rest of the world combined, but does that mean we should be flaunting it and our cowboy attitude all over the place all the time? No.

Would the world be a better place if we didn't? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know because it'll never happen.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country and our people. What our 'leaders' do 'on our behalf' leaves much to be desired however. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and they're all corrupt monkeys.

durex2000: pure genius http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 01:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
I just graduated from highschool... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry to see how badly Canadian education and graduation standards have slumped. Don't worry, perhaps with some maturity you'll learn to think for yourself and stop repeating the same old tired cannards...it always sounds so much like jealously when it comes from up there.

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 01:04 AM
Sure why not. Oh, one last thing though. I gotta squeeze this one in. Pull up some UN rankings of different countries in terms of educational standards, healthcare, personal safety, things like that...
You'll see that there really isn't anything that we 'up there' have anything to be jealous about. I won't bother finding the information for you, since it's extremely unlikely that you'll even look at it.

And that, my friend, is it.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 01:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bane_v2:
I find it highly irritating that we continue to think we have to be the World Police.
durex2000: pure genius http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One problem is the World Cop thing isn't exclusively an American attitude. Look at the utter disasters of Kosovo and Yugoslavia where many European nations were begging for the U.S. to get involved in a situation that didn't involve us in the least...and we did.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 01:08 AM
UN rankings? Hmmmmm, you mean that august body that continues to turn a blind eye to the human rights abuses of many of it's member nations. That organization headed by a man who has done everything he can to cover up the scandles involving his deputies and his own son. That fine organization that basically turned a blind eye to the slaughter in Ruwanda.

Sure...LOL!

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 01:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
UN rankings? Hmmmmm, you mean that august body that continues to turn a blind eye to the human rights abuses of many of it's member nations. That organization headed by a man who has done everything he can to cover up the scandles involving his deputies and his own son. That fine organization that basically turned a blind eye to the slaughter in Ruwanda.

Sure...LOL! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As if the UN has never done a single good thing for the world. Don't even answer that. It's true, the UN has sat idly by embroiled in disputes while innocents have died. But I'm sure they're still able to tabulate their international figures with relative accuracy. Regardless of other matters, they are still considered an authority on those matters.

Also, I wouldn't write LOL! anywhere near a comment about the slaughter in Ruwanda...

BaneSixEcho
04-10-2005, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
One problem is the World Cop thing isn't exclusively an American attitude. Look at the utter disasters of Kosovo and Yugoslavia where many European nations were begging for the U.S. to get involved in a situation that didn't involve us in the least...and we did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hence the reason I said it'll never happen. We're ****ed if we do get involved (under our own volition or as requested by others) and ****ed if we don't. Either way, the US comes out looking bad to the world populace.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 01:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:


As if the UN has never done a single good thing for the world. Don't even answer that. It's true, the UN has sat idly by embroiled in disputes while innocents have died. But I'm sure they're still able to tabulate their international figures with relative accuracy. Regardless of other matters, they are still considered an authority on those matters.

Also, I wouldn't write LOL! anywhere near a comment about the slaughter in Ruwanda... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should, particularly when you're claiming the UN is an authority or matters regarding quality of life...but somehow they can't seem to include Ruwanda in their authoritative figures. LOL! Strange what passes for "accuracy" for some people.

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 01:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bane_v2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
One problem is the World Cop thing isn't exclusively an American attitude. Look at the utter disasters of Kosovo and Yugoslavia where many European nations were begging for the U.S. to get involved in a situation that didn't involve us in the least...and we did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hence the reason I said it'll never happen. We're ****ed if we do get involved (under our own volition or as requested by others) and ****ed if we don't. Either way, the US comes out looking bad to the world populace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's where I sympathize with American politicians. The world holds America to a rediculous double-standard. America isn't completely to blame for that. Many country have become so complacent with their foreign policies, that any time they're asked to take an initiative, they immediately get caught up in their own beaurocratic tape. It's shamefull really.

cwojackson
04-10-2005, 01:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bane_v2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
One problem is the World Cop thing isn't exclusively an American attitude. Look at the utter disasters of Kosovo and Yugoslavia where many European nations were begging for the U.S. to get involved in a situation that didn't involve us in the least...and we did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hence the reason I said it'll never happen. We're ****ed if we do get involved (under our own volition or as requested by others) and ****ed if we don't. Either way, the US comes out looking bad to the world populace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually I don't think it matters whether we do or don't, it's just become very "in" to bash the U.S. in SOME parts of the world.

I travel quite a bit, particularly on the Pacific Rim. You would be surprised at the attitudes of economically emerging nations towards the U.S. there. I spent two very enjoyable, albeit hard working, weeks working out of Singapore and had thoroughly enjoyed it. In the next 50 years the Pacific Rim is going to become the financial power center and we're well placed for that.

At the same time, the wife and I spent time in Malaga, Spain recently and were very surprised to discover that Spain, despite media reports and popular blather to the contrary, is a fairly divided country over the issue. Keep in mind, their recent elections were very close and the polls some like to quote are pretty much taken in the larger urban areas. It's the same situation we have here, the red and blue state situation. I have a feeling the commonly sited perceptions of America are pretty much along the same lines in other nations.

Hertston
04-10-2005, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:
That fine organization that basically turned a blind eye to the slaughter in Ruwanda.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everybody turned a blind eye on Rwanda... uncluding the United States and most other Western Governments. The US had a particular political reason for non-involvement (the crisis arising just after the "Black Hawk Down" incident in Somalia) but that doesn't change the fact.

You seem to have a rather odd perspective on the UN.. as if the US somehow wasn't a member of it. It is, with a Security Council veto to boot, and the US is just as responsible for anything the UN has done (or not done) as anybody else.

Dominicrigg
04-10-2005, 02:32 AM
For once im staying out of this argument but without taking sides i just want to say funny post Durex!! It made me laugh some, made trawling through here fun!!

No one country won the world war, thats why it was a world war.

Also Brits dont hate Americans, and those that do are either confused about world politics and how to deal with political problems (most dont watch the news) or just hate the Americans with the bad attitudes (the "we won the war and would have won single handed without anyone" ones).

Hope that clears it up.

jfink252
04-10-2005, 03:42 AM
Sorry, just got back from my Lawyer/Therapist/Pharmacist, who advised me I was bi-polar.....that would explain why the redneck down south (from North Carolina) side of me read the post from durex and yawned, scratched myself, and reached for one of several firearms, a few clips of ammo, and at least three knives....but then I had a mood swing, and the more sophisticated side of my brain began to kick in, quoting Monty Python, wishing for some tea, and trying to order fish and chips from my local Captain D's. I went to the zedoo, saw a zedbra, and informed a rather large chap in a Pittsburgh Steelers jersey that 98% of the world thought his sport was stupid and that his home town was really pronounced Pittsbourha, at which point he chased me into the carpark, where we proceeded to hop into our hideously ineffecient vehicles and do doughnuts like we were in a roundabout. I then woke up, realized I had gotten an especially bad dose of InfectiousDust from my friendly drug dealer, and it was all just a bad acid trip.

Still, a hilarious post all the way around......and there's nothing better then faked indignation......

PS, tried to throw the word "like" into the post, but couldn't come to grips with the idea of giving that American stereotype (much like the famous Canadian eh') any further mileage (sorry, kilometer-age)

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Messervy
04-10-2005, 05:38 AM
Excellent.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

alanschu
04-10-2005, 06:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Counter? To your BS claim? A shovel and a bag would be appropriate. We have laws about leaving dung on the streets down here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The claim is not BS. The Americans invaded the British Colonies to the North in an attempt to expand the "borders of freedom" and whatnot. While technically taking place before politicans were tossing around Manifest Destiny in the mid-1800s, it's not surprising that the U.S. invaded the North, given what the aspirations of their politicans are.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>not odd. just capitalism <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too bad it's not theoretical capitalism. I do find it ironic though that the biggest preacher of free markets has some of the largest subsidies and import tariffs in the world.

Oh Jackson, your 9/11 defense of the bizarre actions of the U.S. don't explain why the U.S. was doing it before 9/11.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>One problem is the World Cop thing isn't exclusively an American attitude. Look at the utter disasters of Kosovo and Yugoslavia where many European nations were begging for the U.S. to get involved in a situation that didn't involve us in the least...and we did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's the problem. For being the self-proclaimed champions of freedom and whatnot, the U.S. certainly doesn't seem to show much interest unless there's some money involved. Who cares if there's mass genocide going on in Yugoslavia....there's "WMDs" in Iraq. Isn't it rather odd that the U.S. has such a fixation on an oil rich area?



On a side note, funny stuff fink http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


This forum is keeping me occupied while I cross the Atlantic in my IX http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jagtigermk2
04-10-2005, 06:06 AM
"That makes sense though, from a standpoint. Brits suffered a lot more as a result of German actions compared to the Americans.


The Americans didn't really hate the Germans, and the Germans didn't hate the Americans. They were just really efficient at killing each other. Brits hated the Germans though, and Americans hated Japan"
------------------------------------------------

What a stupid comment, ok so they never hated you for doing mass bombings on there citys."

When the British and Germans fought the Geneva Convention was mostly held, At the battle of Arnhem both sides were sending out docs to help the wounded on both sides. Your comments on the Germans hated the English not the Americans is just stupid.

The English and Germans have always respected each other in battle, thats because if you look at our history we are the same.

Ayway i cant be botherd to argue with a yank over matters like this, you lot base your history on hollywood films. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

stereophobia2
04-10-2005, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ayway i cant be botherd to argue with a yank over matters like this, you lot base your history on hollywood films. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I reccomend that anyone that shares that wath chirchill the hollywood years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

alanschu
04-10-2005, 06:25 AM
I'm not a yank.

"Hate" was probably not the best word for the situation.

It would have been more personal (perhaps that was the term I was looking for).

They weren't "blood enemies" or anything seeking each others destruction and death and massacres.

But the other guy mentioned that he heard a German account of Brits fighting harder than Americans (whether that is true is debatable...and not what I was commenting on). I tried to come up with an reason why that may have been true.

And it wasn't just the Battle of Arnhem, Operation Market Garden was entirely like that, as was most of the war (as you said). It makes sense though...seeing as you wouldn't want your POWs to be treated like ****, it would make sense to not treat theirs like ****.

jagtigermk2
04-10-2005, 06:38 AM
"And it wasn't just the Battle of Arnhem, Operation Market Garden was entirely like that, as was most of the war"

Not the Russian front. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

alanschu
04-10-2005, 07:29 AM
Note to self...be more clear.

Most of the war involving the Brits (and Americans for that matter).

As for the Russian Front...no arguments here.

Lassen
04-10-2005, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Things would be much better if Germany and Hitler had won the war. Actually England started the bombing prior to BOB. Hitler was not really interested in Britain as a target. Sorry to upset your applecart. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

2 points.. England, is Part of Britian. England didnt do anything, Britain did. The UK.

ENGLAND IS NOT BRITAIN, IT'S PART OF BRITIAN.

alanschu
04-10-2005, 08:56 AM
That's a technicality. For most people, whether it's right or wrong, Great Britain and England are used interchangeably

Lassen
04-10-2005, 08:59 AM
Oh, and not to piss on Durex's party. John Cleese wrote the famous NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

Edit: I've just found out it wasnt John Cleese, or at least there is some debate on this..

http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/revocation.asp


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stereophobia2
04-10-2005, 09:00 AM
As a Brit myself it really irritates me too that England is seen as the UK. Its PART of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, its not the whole thing, its like one of us refering to Canada as America, or New Zealand as Australia

Lassen
04-10-2005, 09:02 AM
Yes it's even more annoying when you tell an American your from scotland and they ask...

"Scotland? Is that in England?"

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Lassen
04-10-2005, 09:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alanschu:
That's a technicality. For most people, whether it's right or wrong, Great Britain and England are used interchangeably <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only to the un-educated!

stereophobia2
04-10-2005, 09:05 AM
You know the solution would be to sink America by naval gunfire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

But to be fair its not their fault its their education system, there was a BBC report last year that reported that 30ish percent of American Highschool graduates couldnt find America on the world map, even less could find thier home state on the map of America

Lassen
04-10-2005, 09:16 AM
I should again stress for the record that I dont have any hate for Americans. I think there's a lot of cool sh*t in America and a lot of cool things comes from it. If it wasnt for the fact I think there could be a neclear detonation by terrorists on American soil in the near or distant future, I would actually consider moving there becuase I think it's cool in many ways.

Their, and our current War on Terror worries me a great deal and I think all we are doing is stirring up more hate for the west.

Everyhting I've said that ****s of Americans is purely for fun, a little banter like we have with the English (me being scot).

Dont take it seriously.

I'll leave you with a reply I got from my friend who is living in Canada for the past 2 years when I asked him if he liked Canada.

"The best thing about Canada, is it's America without the Americans."

I loved that lol.. Reminds me of the line from Brave Heart when the King of England sait.

"The trouble with Scotland is that it's full of Scots."

hehe.

No more contribution to this thread for me.. I've had my giggle and it's getting a little too serious for me

Indianer.
04-10-2005, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


Well I'm glad to hear that. We don't feed our kids one-sided garbage that paints our country as the saviour of all. Any historian who has visited America and has seen your textbooks will tell you how biased American textbooks portray American history and the American nation. Beneath your maniacal flag-waving idiocracy, you supress an ignorance for what your country truly represents. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Couldn't have said it better my self.

alanschu
04-10-2005, 11:32 AM
That's why I said "right or wrong."

People not living in the United Kingdom see England and Britain as being the same thing.

markkram95
04-10-2005, 11:43 AM
I think the whole "England" generalisation that people who don't know Britain well is the fact that "English" the language has spread throughout the world during the days of the British empire (Sounds like Star Wars)LOL and so that is why England is known more than scotland wales or ireland, simply because of the "English" language!!

Frederf220
04-10-2005, 12:12 PM
Heh, this thread cracks me up. Yeah, a lot of American's are dumb. I know. I live here.

Just remember...

http://www.squick.org/ffa/bin/not-all-jerks-black.gif

chas1963
04-10-2005, 12:59 PM
This type of thread should be s**t-canned. Totally counterproductive and, frankly, as a Canadian, I find this boring.

I have British relatives, American relatives and close friends.

That's all I have to say about that...

wAr_m0nkey
04-10-2005, 01:13 PM
Durex, you plagerizer, that was beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

As for those who got their education in a wood shack from a raccoon somewhere in backwater Alabama. We (America) started the war of 1812 cause we thought we were **** hot and we were going to rule all of North America. We sorta got kicked in the jimmy for trying that, what with the burning of the White House and all.(for cripes sakes I knew that I was edjumakated in Arizona, #49 of 50 for education in our great nation)

Maybe that's why we haven't screwed with Canada since then... I mean, if not for that historical fear why wouldn't we take you guys over, it's not like your national health care is stopping us? wait... I know... hairy women and hockey as a national sport http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif enough to make your toe hair curl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Infectious: Thanks for the info and the link.

alanschu
04-10-2005, 01:14 PM
Hairy women!?!?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

wAr_m0nkey
04-10-2005, 01:18 PM
My bad, I think that's France http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

But hey, I'm American, that means everything out there is the same right?????

jfink252
04-10-2005, 03:07 PM
Hey now, easy on the American education system.....I don't know how ya'll do it in Alabama (Hey, is it still legal to marry your cousin down there?), but here in North Carolina (Where it's not legal, but it sure is fun....) we didn't have the wooden shack....we had the large trailer with a hole in the roof, where I learned that Scotland was actually a county two counties over, French was a way of kissin', Belgium made waffles, the Irish made coffee, England was evidently New, and somewhere up North, Germany had good potato salad, and Italy was where pizza came from. I also remember something about the war of 1812 in band class, where we played some song from some Russian (who we were taught were EVIL, EVIL, EVIL!!!! NUKE DRILL, HIDE UNDER YOUR DESK AND KISS YOUR @SS GOODBYE) whose name I never learned how to pronounce that had that date in it. Our only experience in international affairs came from a trip to the local mexican eating establishment or from National Geographic Magazine, where we learned that all water in the world is blue and that native women wore no clothing and had strange piercings. When was asked about Canada, we were told it was where the Blue Jays play (Hey, the "World Series" was played in Canada at least two years, not just in the US) and that they had introduced that strange game that looked a lot like football, but on ice. The rules never made any sense, and it never got cold enough down here to play, so we never paid it much attention. The only other thing we ever heard about Canada was when our teacher spent three weeks pointing to Canada on a map and calling it Alaska. The rest of our tedious stay in public school was spent learning how to clean a shotgun, what months of the year deer season was in, and how to compose sentences with the word like used as many times as possible.

This whole thread is hilarious, and the natural smart@ss in me cannot resist poking fun.....but in all seriousness, IMHO the rest of the world understands America about as well as they think Americans understand them. It seems most of the world gets their ideas on America from television....and most of the time, life in America is nothing like what you see on fictional television, and American news media seems to be required by law to find the most "interesting" example of American citizens and interview them for their programming, so don't put too much stock in that, either. For the most part, we all like you and I hope for the most part you all like us...the only exceptions seem to be those of us in all countries who are either misinformed by design, ignorant by choice, or looking for a fight, so.....greets to all from North Carolina.....come and visit anytime (if you can make it through security.... :-) ) I'm going to go see if my u-boat as reached the assigned patrol sector now, as, like, I have only one engine left, and it's taking, like, FOREVER to get anywhere.

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-10-2005, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
I love how you think you saved the UK in WWII.

You have neither the intelect or foresight to realise that had you not intervened, the USA would be speaking German today and we'd all be saluting the swastika. But given your race relations history, that may not have been a bad thing for you all <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good to me except Nazis aren't racist like Americans.

durex2000
04-10-2005, 04:05 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

alanschu
04-10-2005, 06:06 PM
Yes...the Nazi's were all about equality and all that jazz.

Rageman
04-10-2005, 09:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alanschu:
Yes...the Nazi's were all about equality and all that jazz. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They sure where, they planned to make sure everyone was equal by getting rid of everyone that wasnt...

Why aint this thread locked yet? and why hasnt it spiraled out of control yet either?

Poacher886a
04-10-2005, 10:23 PM
I'm out of this thread aswell,but i will say one thing...weather the Yanks hate the Brits or the Brits hate the Yanks does'nt matter,because we all have one thing in common....
...We all hate the French.

InfectiousDust
04-10-2005, 10:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jfink252:
I then woke up, realized I had gotten an especially bad dose of InfectiousDust from my friendly drug dealer, and it was all just a bad acid trip. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure how to take that. If it was a joke, alright then. Otherwise, cram it up your ***! I found the rest of your post extremely amusing though!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wAr_m0nkey:
hairy women and hockey as a national sport http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif enough to make your toe hair curl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Infectious: Thanks for the info and the link. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hairy women? That's Russia! And hockey isn't our national sport ... lacross is *sigh*. But at least we didn't invent a sport and rip off the name from one that already existed! You know the one I'm talking about. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good luck with your video card! Let me know how it turns out.

Silencer_42
04-10-2005, 11:16 PM
I thought I'd be as mature as this thread deserves.

Americans smell like pooh, The British do too. I can't stand Australians, Jamaicans or Canadians. The French make me wretch, the Dutch resemble my crutch, the Germans are all vermin and the Spanish should just vanish. Russia is no tougher, than a plate of bread and butter, Japan can be compared to a processed can of spam. I'd like to say something nice, about old Mexico, unfortunately it's like the rest, just another stink hole.

No matter where your from or where you stay,
Just thank the lord, your not from Uraguay. (U R GAY)

Silencer_42
04-10-2005, 11:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lassen:
Yes it's even more annoying when you tell an American your from scotland and they ask...

"Scotland? Is that in England?"

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fiddle de di! Potatoes!
Ooops that's my Irish accent.
(Joke stolen from a Scottish comedian.)

indylavi
04-11-2005, 12:20 AM
It's not just American's that call Scotland British. I was watching a British sitcom. You people don't actually have to watch these shows right? There is other programing? If not I truly am sorry. It was some MI-5 type show or something. Anyway, they said, My god, they are going to bomb 3 British cities, London,Birmingham, and...Edinburgh. son of a #$)(@$!@#$@#% From a British show I would expect them to know Edinburgh is not British. Also the BBC always says "British Troops" even when they interview a clearly Scotish soldier. Scots just can't win I guess

Silencer_42
04-11-2005, 12:30 AM
It's easier to say a "British soldier" than a "United Kingdomish" soldier. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vampiric666
04-11-2005, 01:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cwojackson:


At the same time, the wife and I spent time in Malaga, Spain recently and were very surprised to discover that Spain, despite media reports and popular blather to the contrary, is a fairly divided country over the issue. Keep in mind, their recent elections were very close and the polls some like to quote are pretty much taken in the larger urban areas. It's the same situation we have here, the red and blue state situation. I have a feeling the commonly sited perceptions of America are pretty much along the same lines in other nations. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

U were surprised?. Then you are everything but smart. What would do u expect about a country that finished a civil war 66 years ago?

Vampiric666
04-11-2005, 02:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stereophobia2:
As a Brit myself it really irritates me too that England is seen as the UK. Its PART of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, its not the whole thing, its like one of us refering to Canada as America, or New Zealand as Australia <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
or like one US citizen refering to USA as America.. isnt it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

dmm_u333
04-11-2005, 02:15 AM
Getting back to the original question, when you say help, don't you mean SOLD?

(UK is still paying LEND-LEASE till 2008)

CapnAJ
04-11-2005, 02:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:
It's not just American's that call Scotland British. I was watching a British sitcom. You people don't actually have to watch these shows right? There is other programing? If not I truly am sorry. It was some MI-5 type show or something. Anyway, they said, My god, they are going to bomb 3 British cities, London,Birmingham, and...Edinburgh. son of a #$)(@$!@#$@#% From a British show I would expect them to know Edinburgh is not British. Also the BBC always says "British Troops" even when they interview a clearly Scotish soldier. Scots just can't win I guess <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scotland is part of Great Britain and the Scotish soldiers are serving in the British army.

JuanCudz
04-11-2005, 03:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:


For anyone who has actually read history, its a well known fact that the Commies, the stinking red,was the ones who carried the brunt of WW2. Something which is reflected in their casualities. Ever considered why the nazis had almost double the number of troops on the east front in 1944? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the origianl post winds me up have as much as these 'Russia won the war' claims that people roll off by rote, courtesy of the wishy washy leftist education we suffered in the 60's and 70's. Of Russia's 'estimated' 20mil war dead, well over half can have been killed by the russians themselves, the war being the ultimate excuse for Stalin to get all those troublemakers out of the way.

And if it wasnt for Equipment supplied by US/UK via Artic Convoys, The russians would have had to WALK to berlin. You never see any jeeps or 30cwt trucks in any soviet propaganda, nor should you expect to.

Lassen
04-11-2005, 04:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:
It's not just American's that call Scotland British. I was watching a British sitcom. You people don't actually have to watch these shows right? There is other programing? If not I truly am sorry. It was some MI-5 type show or something. Anyway, they said, My god, they are going to bomb 3 British cities, London,Birmingham, and...Edinburgh. son of a #$)(@$!@#$@#% From a British show I would expect them to know Edinburgh is not British. Also the BBC always says "British Troops" even when they interview a clearly Scotish soldier. Scots just can't win I guess <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure if your just taking the piss, but assuming your not..... Geography lesson number 2.

I know I said I was pulling out of this thread, but I feel I need to point this out.

SCOTLAND, England, Ireland, Wales.. All make up Great Britian.

Scottish citizens & Soldiers are British.

EDINBURGH is the capitol city of Scotland and is still therefore British.

I think or at least hope perhaps you meant to say Edinburgh is not an English city as it's not.

One day we will get this message across of what the UK actually is.

The issue we've been discussing is how many people across the atlantic think England is another name for Britian, and also Scotland is a place in England.. LOOK!!!

Does this help?

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9902/14/lockerbie/great.britain.map.jpg

And in case you have no idea where the UK is on the map in relation to US, here...

http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/images/world_map.gif

By the way, we're the one on the right! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Barracus0411
04-11-2005, 04:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:
It's not just American's that call Scotland British. I was watching a British sitcom. You people don't actually have to watch these shows right? There is other programing? If not I truly am sorry. It was some MI-5 type show or something. Anyway, they said, My god, they are going to bomb 3 British cities, London,Birmingham, and...Edinburgh. son of a #$)(@$!@#$@#% From a British show I would expect them to know Edinburgh is not British. Also the BBC always says "British Troops" even when they interview a clearly Scotish soldier. Scots just can't win I guess <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the sake of clarity please note the following

Great Britain = England, Scotland, Wales
United Kingdom = England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland
British Isles = England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Eire

The latter being a geographical expression only. Britain is the state - England is the country.

Before getting hysterical please try to ascertain a few geo-political facts

Thank You

Nukem_Hicks
04-11-2005, 05:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuanCudz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:


For anyone who has actually read history, its a well known fact that the Commies, the stinking red,was the ones who carried the brunt of WW2. Something which is reflected in their casualities. Ever considered why the nazis had almost double the number of troops on the east front in 1944? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the origianl post winds me up have as much as these 'Russia won the war' claims that people roll off by rote, courtesy of the wishy washy leftist education we suffered in the 60's and 70's. Of Russia's 'estimated' 20mil war dead, well over half can have been killed by the russians themselves, the war being the ultimate excuse for Stalin to get all those troublemakers out of the way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a very good reason as to why everyone is convinced that the Soviets bore the brunt of the war: they suffered drastically more casualties than anyone else. Problem is, as Juan points out, suffering more casualties is quite distinct from putting forth the most effort.

First, the Soviet military, for lack of a better word, sucked. 90% of their high officers had been executed or exiled during the purges of the late '30s (along with millions of others). Stalin's brilliant "5 Year Plans" pushed the country to the brink of yet another famine. The Nazi invasion pushed the Soviets over the brink, resulting in a severe famine during the years 1942-1943 that resulted in roughly 10 million Soviet deaths. We also must take into account the reckless Soviet method of fighting, a method that frequently resulted in Soviet assault troops being machine-gunned down by their own support troops for retreating.

War casualties aside, the wartime famine caused by Stalin's economic policies resulted in more Soviet deaths than did the entire German war machine. The Soviets didn't fight; they died.

As to why the Germans had twice the troops on the East front as they did no the Western front in 1944: there was NO Western front until the 2nd half of 1944. The Eastern front had existed since mid-1941. Of course the Germans ('Nazi' is a rather specific term for a country in which only 1% of the population belonged to the Nazi party) had more troops fighting the Russians.

Note: Primary source on the Russian deaths during WWII comes from Anne Applebaum's Pulitzer-winning history Gulag. It's an excellent read and raises a very valid point: Nazi policy resulted in the murder of 11 million "non-German" civilians. Soviet policy resulted in the murder of roughly 50 million civilians, the vast majority of them Russian. So why is it that it is acceptable to wear shirts emblazoned with Soviet icons but not with Nazi icons? The two should go hand in hand, methinks.

Messervy
04-11-2005, 05:25 AM
I second that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Poacher886a
04-11-2005, 05:38 AM
The Russians were supplied by Britian.

The Germans waltzed through Russia,and if they had'nt cocked up there supply routes,would have been in Mosscow by christmas.Game over for the Russians!

Lets be very clear about this..THE RUSSIANS DID NOT WIN THE WAR infact the main reason for the Germans being defeated in Russia was..THE RUSSIAN WINTER!!! and poorly equipted troops for the winter.

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuanCudz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:


For anyone who has actually read history, its a well known fact that the Commies, the stinking red,was the ones who carried the brunt of WW2. Something which is reflected in their casualities. Ever considered why the nazis had almost double the number of troops on the east front in 1944? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the origianl post winds me up have as much as these 'Russia won the war' claims that people roll off by rote, courtesy of the wishy washy leftist education we suffered in the 60's and 70's. Of Russia's 'estimated' 20mil war dead, well over half can have been killed by the russians themselves, the war being the ultimate excuse for Stalin to get all those troublemakers out of the way.

And if it wasnt for Equipment supplied by US/UK via Artic Convoys, The russians would have had to WALK to berlin. You never see any jeeps or 30cwt trucks in any soviet propaganda, nor should you expect to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry kid, but history is something i studied at uni, and claiming the stalin purges (which almost all took place before and after ww2) are a part of those 27m, which only refers to casualities between 41-45, is uncomfirmed bollox. i am not a marxist just because i have an education.

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nukem_Hicks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuanCudz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:


For anyone who has actually read history, its a well known fact that the Commies, the stinking red,was the ones who carried the brunt of WW2. Something which is reflected in their casualities. Ever considered why the nazis had almost double the number of troops on the east front in 1944? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the origianl post winds me up have as much as these 'Russia won the war' claims that people roll off by rote, courtesy of the wishy washy leftist education we suffered in the 60's and 70's. Of Russia's 'estimated' 20mil war dead, well over half can have been killed by the russians themselves, the war being the ultimate excuse for Stalin to get all those troublemakers out of the way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

T The Soviets didn't fight; they died.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

amazing history revisionism, david irving couldnt have done it better.

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 06:41 AM
Was the lend lease (allied convoy support) instrumental for soviets victory? By 1941 almost none support had arrived, still this is the point most german generals argued that the campaign was lost (late 41). All momentum was then drowned by the russian winter as some of you correctly has stated. A war is not just victories, but most importantly, capitalizing on the victory, or the victory becomes completely irrelevant. as the Carthaginian cavalry commander maharbal said: Hannibal knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it. This in effect, was germanys fate at the east front.

dmm_u333
04-11-2005, 06:47 AM
Lend lease was more than mere convoy support, it was the whole program of Arms/Supplies/Merchant Shipping etc for the whole war effort. Paid for by the UK, made/supplied by the US.
We still are paying it (until 2008)!!

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 07:03 AM
did the soviet army "suck"? Logistically yes. More general, as means to winning a war, no. And that is the most important thing isnt it? If a thing "suck", or in some way displeased the subject, is not irrelevant, as long as it gets the job done.
Some of you use the lacking of equipment as an argument on how they could not bear the brunt (some of you say i stated the soviets won ww2, learn to read) of ww2. The most important factor was soviets population number, giving it the ability to levy en masse. A standard rule of engagement for a soviet platoon, for example, was to get the weapon of your fallen comrade, because there was not enough weapons to go around. Food was also scarce, and interesting enough, walking was the norm of transport. Not driving to germany in their newly arrived humvee as some of you imagine.
Synopsis is that the soviet army faced the most appaling conditions for the standard soldier, not enough food, not enough weapon etc. still they managed to go on the offensive. As in Stalingrad where the pincer movement encircled 200.000 of the best german soldiers in von Paulus army. This is also the first major allied victory.
When it comes to the writing off soviets decisive role in ww2, its prob because off the cold war, and the propaganda machine it produced on both sides.
Just beacause i try to state a couple of facts, does not mean i have forgotten about stalins atrocities. But they have only a small part of ww2s timeline. i will be happy to discuss them at the right context. This is not about stalin, but about the common, usual russian soldiers impressive willpower to fight under the most horrific conditions. The truth about these mens sacrifice should not be forgotten. And in the light of Stalins cruelty, their persistence only seems stronger.

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmm_u333:
Lend lease was more than mere convoy support, it was the whole program of Arms/Supplies/Merchant Shipping etc for the whole war effort. Paid for by the UK, made/supplied by the US.
We still are paying it (until 2008)!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly! thank you for elaborating.

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 07:21 AM
Just to be a bit more precise, with ww2 timeline i mean soviets timeline 41-45. Even a tyrant like stalin understood that killing off the manpower to his army during a war was not a very good idea.

A nice source of information on russias/soviets war is the world at war seried made in 1974, made in participation with well acknowledged historians and a lot more entertaining than the textbooks i was forced to read in uni http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

axeman3d
04-11-2005, 08:10 AM
Cant let a huge thread like this pass me by, so here goes...

Russia - won their battles thanks to the weather, the poor infrastructure, poor German planning and the fact that the leadership was quite willing to throw men at the problem. Russian military doctrine is still to attack in vast waves, a precedent started by Stalin. Witness their nuclear sub program, in which they quite happily irradiated conscripts for the sake of keeping up with more advanced nations.

USA - Won their battles because they had massive resources available and were completely untouched physically by war itself. No factories were bombed or shut down, production went uninterrupted and they had the technology and money to come up with the goods. Having millions of men also helps.

Britain - saved by it's geography, it's naval superiority and it's technical know-how. Had it been physically connected to Europe I think there's no doubt in anyones mind they would have been over-run by the Werhmacht and the outcome of the war would have been very, very different.

US Attitudes - of and to
The US is not universally hated, but it now appears to be making a concerted to make it so. The US is one of the most insular of countries, and most are raised to believe that everyone wants to be American and that all others covet their American lifestyle. They therefore tend to think that Americanising small brown nations is a good thing, but generally dont ask the small brown nations opinions first. Hence the animosity. How very wrong. I am happy being British, with my free health service, real weather and no armed gangs roaming the streets.

Another small bone of contention is the US belief that might=right. If the answer to all problems is to send in the troops, why are there so many countries that still dislike the US? How odd? You have marched in uninvited, killed a bunch of them and then proceed to either treat them like dirt or as idiots, then wonder what their problem with you is? Bizarre!

The US is like any other powerful country, only more so. It's an 'in yer face' society thats trying to spread it's brand around the world and cant see it, so that causes some friction. I've visited Canada and the US a few times, and as far as I can see it's a beautiful country. Needs a population transplant though...

dmm_u333
04-11-2005, 08:17 AM
here here

Poacher886a
04-11-2005, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>,As in Stalingrad where the pincer movement encircled 200.000 of the best german soldiers in von Paulus army. This is also the first major allied victory.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The first major allied victory,and the turning point in the war,was when the British single handedly decisively deafeated both the Italians and Germans(who comanded by there best genral Rommel)on a level playing field with equal arms and armour,kicked them out of Africa.
This was Germany's first decisive deafeat with all they had thrown at it,this marked the turning point of the war..it was all win win win after this.
It is also interesting to note,when the yanks turned up afterwards to relive the Desert rats,they expected to see this unique smart fighting force they had heard so much about,but were greeted by a scruffy looking army with rusty old war bitten tanks,and were suprised.

The Americans started to lose badley straight away,because they refused to accept the offer of experience gained from the British,they were making the same mistakes the Brits did 2yrs earlier,of course eventually they bowed there heads and listened.

diveplane
04-11-2005, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by axeman3d:
Cant let a huge thread like this pass me by, so here goes...

_Russia_ - won their battles thanks to the weather, the poor infrastructure, poor German planning and the fact that the leadership was quite willing to throw men at the problem. Russian military doctrine is still to attack in vast waves, a precedent started by Stalin. Witness their nuclear sub program, in which they quite happily irradiated conscripts for the sake of keeping up with more advanced nations.

_USA_ - Won their battles because they had massive resources available and were completely untouched physically by war itself. No factories were bombed or shut down, production went uninterrupted and they had the technology and money to come up with the goods. Having millions of men also helps.

_Britain_ - saved by it's geography, it's naval superiority and it's technical know-how. Had it been physically connected to Europe I think there's no doubt in anyones mind they would have been over-run by the Werhmacht and the outcome of the war would have been very, very different.

_US Attitudes - of and to_
The US is not universally hated, but it now appears to be making a concerted to make it so. The US is one of the most insular of countries, and most are raised to believe that everyone wants to be American and that all others covet their American lifestyle. They therefore tend to think that Americanising small brown nations is a good thing, but generally dont ask the small brown nations opinions first. Hence the animosity. How very wrong. I am happy being British, with my free health service, real weather and no armed gangs roaming the streets.

Another small bone of contention is the US belief that might=right. If the answer to all problems is to send in the troops, why are there so many countries that still dislike the US? How odd? You have marched in uninvited, killed a bunch of them and then proceed to either treat them like dirt or as idiots, then wonder what their problem with you is? Bizarre!

The US is like any other powerful country, only more so. It's an 'in yer face' society thats trying to spread it's brand around the world and cant see it, so that causes some friction. I've visited Canada and the US a few times, and as far as I can see it's a beautiful country. Needs a population transplant though... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


good points there, i have to agree on the point
about the health system here in the usa, its
a unfair system , only makes the rich richer poor poorer, and this texan freak bush will never reform the medical system in this country,
super power country but yet?........

personally many people here have givin up, and
most only to be left with bad attitude...and frustration trying to fight for things here in the usa,..........most off the tax money now gets pimped pumped into this war on
terror,.....vote for george...jesus crist http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

rich will always stamp on the poor.....

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Poacher886:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>,As in Stalingrad where the pincer movement encircled 200.000 of the best german soldiers in von Paulus army. This is also the first major allied victory.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The first major allied victory,and the turning point in the war,was when the British single handedly decisively deafeated both the Italians and Germans(who comanded by there best genral Rommel)on a level playing field with equal arms and armour,kicked them out of Africa.
This was Germany's first decisive deafeat with all they had thrown at it,this marked the turning point of the war..it was all win win win after this.
It is also interesting to note,when the yanks turned up afterwards to relive the Desert rats,they expected to see this unique smart fighting force they had heard so much about,but were greeted by a scruffy looking army with rusty old war bitten tanks,and were suprised.

The Americans started to lose badley straight away,because they refused to accept the offer of experience gained from the British,they were making the same mistakes the Brits did 2yrs earlier,of course eventually they bowed there heads and listened. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the infamous battle at kasserine pass. You should remember that this was the first contact the americans had with the germans, and on top off it all, a able commander like Rommel. However they did not repeat that mistake again.

More importantly however, is that north africa was strategically only a sideshow. When it comes to resource and location, north africa was more a battle for prestige, than solid resource, or fruitfull territory. When it comes to the oil, germany had already secured a sufficient source in romania.
Stalingrad was the first step toward germany and at last, to Berlin, this makes it the true turning point. The small portion of german army in africa (roughly 100,000 men) also reflects my arguments.

And to axeman, though i may say that you generalise a bit too much for my liking. Soviet had many briliant strategists like Chuikov. As i have said before, the only good strategy is the one who achieves your goal. The biggest number in casualities on the german side was suffered in russia.

alanschu
04-11-2005, 09:25 AM
Again though, wouldn't that simply have to do with the length of time that the Germans and the Soviets had a frontline?

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 09:41 AM
a good point, but what is to carry the brunt, doing the most etc. than having a front line the longest?

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 10:47 AM
on a sidenote relating to the north africa campaign: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4434251.stm

diianni
04-11-2005, 01:06 PM
Skipped a few pages from this thread but here it goes....

The problem that I have with some Americans (This includes family of mine that live there) is that they are totally self absorbed!! They don't know anything outside of their own country. Ask an American who the Prime Minister of Britain/Canada (I'm Canadian) is and they won't know. Ask them anything that has to do with another country and they won't know. I'm not saying this is all Americans but the majority are too self-absorbed. This goes for other nationalities as well but generally this applies to Americans.

But, I love everyone. That's the general Canadian disposition!!!!

Dominicrigg
04-11-2005, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:

More importantly however, is that north africa was strategically only a sideshow. When it comes to resource and location, north africa was more a battle for prestige, than solid resource, or fruitfull territory. When it comes to the oil, germany had already secured a sufficient source in romania.
Stalingrad was the first step toward germany and at last, to Berlin, this makes it the true turning point. The small portion of german army in africa (roughly 100,000 men) also reflects my arguments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

North Africa was of massive strategic importance, holding out the mediteranian bases and leaving the possibility to open a 3rd and 4th front through vichy france and Italy/Yogoslavia.

Britain saw this and persuaded America who preferred to fight only in Japan, and later only wanted to invade mainland France on one front. (pretty suicidal)

Without the British bombing of German cities and factories (Which stalin pleaded for on many occasions to relieve his troops) and the diversion of materials to greece, North africa ect. Russias position would have been far less tenable. There is no way Russia could have pushed to Berlin against Germany had they not been fighting against the British and Commonwealth forces in Africa/greece ect and later against the Allies in France.

In terms of morale, equipment, experience and strategical value Africa is probably more important then any other pre D-Day invasion battle. Churchill thankfully saw this.

Africa corps were some of germanies finest (if not their finest) soldiers and also had many of the new tanks. Without this front Hitler would only have needed to worry about an invasion into France, which would have made countering the attack much easier.

If england had fallen there would have been no invasion of Europe, and similarly if the battle for north africa had been lost the invasion of southern Europe would have been impossible. Defeat there would also more then likely have kept America from the war as they were watching the attacks as a "test" for how the war in Europe would go.

Americans wanted to ignore the European campaign and wipe out the Japanese, which again would have meant a lot of pressure off Hitler. Again they were persuaded otherwise by some clever manipulation by Churchill.


And for the muppet who earlier belittled the contributions of other nations, saying "oh and there were 2 mexicans blah blah blah"

Here are tables of the human cost of world war 2.

Though you wont be able to grasp what they mean i doubt.


http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html

durex2000
04-11-2005, 01:35 PM
Nope,
Hitler was not interested in greece, the balcan and north africa. He just had to support the italians, which had initially failed in these regions. Mussolini and Hitler had decided to share europe. northern and middle europe (including scandinavia, austria, czech, lower countries, poland, russia and france) were germany's sphere of interest, whereas the whole mediterranian region (north africa and the middle east and the balcan) were for italy. Compared to the Eastern and western front and the troops stationed e.g. in norway, the afrika corps was much smaller. Thats another reason why rommel was so famous because with a comparably small army he was (at least in the beginning) quite succesfull.

Kirock7
04-11-2005, 01:50 PM
Hey, guys... trust me when I say a good half of us didn't vote for Bush... and alot of us are very **** unhappy that he won.
The next four years looks **** bleak for the environment, our economy and our culture (if you're a regular citizen) and **** good for big biz (can you say "outsourcing"?, "tax breaks"? and "...let's change the ethics rules and do what we want"!)
It's like a nightmare.
I digress... these threads are so hard to control.. I'm getting emotional already and I don't need to be thinking about this... I make it through each day by trying to pretend that everything is "okay". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Sad, I know.

EDIT: God, when I responded to this thread I didn't realize it was 11 pages long! Wow!
Now I have to go back and read everything... or maybe I won't. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Dominicrigg
04-11-2005, 01:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Hitler's large-scale demands for the Mediterranean meant that...the plans for...an 'Eastern Wall' were overtaken by the increasingly rapid advance of the Red Army"
Lieutenant General Warlimont - (Speaking after the war) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the horses mouth...

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:

More importantly however, is that north africa was strategically only a sideshow. When it comes to resource and location, north africa was more a battle for prestige, than solid resource, or fruitfull territory. When it comes to the oil, germany had already secured a sufficient source in romania.
Stalingrad was the first step toward germany and at last, to Berlin, this makes it the true turning point. The small portion of german army in africa (roughly 100,000 men) also reflects my arguments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

North Africa was of massive strategic importance, holding out the mediteranian bases and leaving the possibility to open a 3rd and 4th front through vichy france and Italy/Yogoslavia.

Britain saw this and persuaded America who preferred to fight only in Japan, and later only wanted to invade mainland France on one front. (pretty suicidal)

Without the British bombing of German cities and factories (Which stalin pleaded for on many occasions to relieve his troops) and the diversion of materials to greece, North africa ect. Russias position would have been far less tenable. There is no way Russia could have pushed to Berlin against Germany had they not been fighting against the British and Commonwealth forces in Africa/greece ect and later against the Allies in France.

In terms of morale, equipment, experience and strategical value Africa is probably more important then any other pre D-Day invasion battle. Churchill thankfully saw this.

Africa corps were some of germanies finest (if not their finest) soldiers and also had many of the new tanks. Without this front Hitler would only have needed to worry about an invasion into France, which would have made countering the attack much easier.

If england had fallen there would have been no invasion of Europe, and similarly if the battle for north africa had been lost the invasion of southern Europe would have been impossible. Defeat there would also more then likely have kept America from the war as they were watching the attacks as a "test" for how the war in Europe would go.

Americans wanted to ignore the European campaign and wipe out the Japanese, which again would have meant a lot of pressure off Hitler. Again they were persuaded otherwise by some clever manipulation by Churchill.


And for the muppet who earlier belittled the contributions of other nations, saying "oh and there were 2 mexicans blah blah blah"

Here are tables of the human cost of world war 2.

Though you wont be able to grasp what they mean i doubt.


http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why do i have to repeat myself all the time? i have never claimed sovietrussia to win WW2 alone, i merely stated that they took the brunt of it, and contribution was most important. Though i strongly doubt they could have taken germany all alone.
You overstate africas importance. If usa had wanted it, they could have assaulted sicilia directly, and use it to stage the invasion of italia. The reason being all american-sicilians who made the invasion of sicilia into something of a piece of cake (relativly speaking). Africa was never needed for the attack on europe, far from it. durex2000 is correct in his post.

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Hitler's large-scale demands for the Mediterranean meant that...the plans for...an 'Eastern Wall' were overtaken by the increasingly rapid advance of the Red Army"
Lieutenant General Warlimont - (Speaking after the war) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the horses mouth... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, beside the point that his quote says nothing to counter the argument about sovietrussias importance, what university does this person lecture history in by the way?

Tiberonmagnus
04-11-2005, 02:11 PM
Hi there,

This has become a real interesting thread. I'm an American and just wondering why *some* people who only A) meet a couple American's, or B) dislike the leadership and take it out on the rest of the American population as some sort of stereotype.

In all honesty, I don't hear much of anything bad about other countries here in the US, but I always hear stuff being said about us. Sure sometimes our leadership makes bad decisions (depending on your point of view), but so does every other nation in the world at some point. Of course again, this "bad decision" is a relative term being that it might appear bad in one society, yet good in another, and vice versa.

As it was said before in this thread, that some people have met with American's and they appear "in your face" type of attitude. Well, I can say the same about people of other nationalities that were exchange students, people on vacation, and so forth. But, being a person that views people on the individual level. I don't go around and trash a country because I met a couple people from it and view the rest of the country in the same light. I have an open mind.

As for WWII, I believe that every nation contributed as much as they could with the resources they had. In the end I don't think it was America in itself that did it, sure it was a large blow to the Germans to have us enter the war, but I think it was the combined forces and friendship of the allied armies put together that gave us (all of us) a victory in the end.

I really don't think this is healthy, just feels like I'm reading a bunch of American bashing that at times is aimed at all American's. So.. if I'm an American, does that automatically make me a bad guy? From some points of view, it appears that way..

afatninja
04-11-2005, 02:13 PM
HEY remember , the yanks didnt want to join in the war , they only jumped in , when the japs did pearl harbour ,, and they had no choice ,, and now how many wars since , have we brits had to help u out ,, iraq being one of them

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 02:14 PM
Oh, i see he lectures at the nazi war crime academy: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/ghctrial1.htm

HelpfulParadox
04-11-2005, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:

Though you wont be able to grasp what they mean i doubt.


http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what the heck does this mean? you are the only one who understands?

afatninja
04-11-2005, 02:23 PM
hey , yanks seems to forget , they wouldnt join in the war , no matter how many times they were asked ,, all the brits asked for were ships and supplys , but yanks said no ,,, untill the japs did em, in pearl harbour ,then they scream help , and join in ,,better late than never ,, and u say u helped the brits , lol,, how many times theyve helped u since,,u never go to war now , with out their confimed back up first ,,, come on u brits

durex2000
04-11-2005, 03:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> why do i have to repeat myself all the time? i have never claimed sovietrussia to win WW2 alone, i merely stated that they took the brunt of it, and contribution was most important. Though i strongly doubt they could have taken germany all alone.
You overstate africas importance. If usa had wanted it, they could have assaulted sicilia directly, and use it to stage the invasion of italia. The reason being all american-sicilians who made the invasion of sicilia into something of a piece of cake (relativly speaking). Africa was never needed for the attack on europe, far from it. durex2000 is correct in his post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't get me wrong. North africa and the middle east WERE important for britain as this region controls suez and the whole mediterranian. But I agree that this region was not important for invading europe. And it didn't had highest priority for hitler. Probably because most cargo transported to britain came from the US via the atlantic rather than from asia (and the british colonies) via suez and gibraltar. A interesting question would be, what would have happend if spain and fascistic Franco would have joined the axis side. This for sure would have meant loss of gibraltar, the mediterranian and probably north africa.

SubSerpent
04-11-2005, 03:28 PM
(Neutral View Even Though I Am An American)

My hat goes off to all the men in a women that have died before me in previous wars from any nation, for we all whom do not participate in the actual politics are nothing more than mere pawns in their twisted little games.

I am sorry if Brits feel negative nowadays towards the US and I am sorry to the Brits if fellow Americans feel negative towards you. It is funny to look back at our history together and think that at one time we almost went to war (again) over a pig. Luckily for everyone we 'talked' it out and the war didn't break out. Talking is key to every confrontation and does work to help prevent needless wars from ever starting.

I'm tired of each country saying this and that about who would have or should have done this or that. It's pointless! It's history and none of it matters now! The world has changed quite a lot since then and dwelling on past indifferences isn't helping the world out today.

axeman3d
04-11-2005, 03:58 PM
Agreed, it is far in the past and not really relevant to the original topic of this thread, but as this is a WWII heavy forum these things tend to veer that way in the end. History buffs one and all.

As for the original topic, I think we should clear this up once and for all.

The British do not hate the Yanks
We helped create your country, one way or the other, and without it's industrial backup as mentioned previously we might concievably all be living in a very different world, the US oncluded.

We dont hate you, we tend to pity you. You have so many racial problems that it's sad to watch, you have fundamentalists warping science and teaching for the sake of ancient religion, your city streets are among the most dangerous of the western world, your health service wont help the poor and each year your 'right to bear arms' leads to tens of thousands of needless deaths. Worse still your bizarre voting system leads to injustices like Bush being elected President when he clearly got fewer votes, and the man is clearly bent on turning the US into some sort of Christian wasteland by funding the military at the expense of the people. Pretty soon my humble British pound will buy 2 US dollars thanks to him, yet Americans still often speak like there's nowhere else on Earth, so insular are they. If you guys aren't careful then ignorance really will be your undoing.

Dominicrigg
04-11-2005, 04:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:
You overstate africas importance. If usa had wanted it, they could have assaulted sicilia directly, and use it to stage the invasion of italia. The reason being all american-sicilians who made the invasion of sicilia into something of a piece of cake (relativly speaking). Africa was never needed for the attack on europe, far from it. durex2000 is correct in his post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Doh, how would they invade sicily? From where? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I think you missed the basics of war. Would it be an airborn raid from... ermmmm uhhh ohhh cancel that there are not even any airfields near enough...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Interesting, beside the point that his quote says nothing to counter the argument about sovietrussias importance, what university does this person lecture history in by the way? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is showing the importance of the mediteranian campaign. From one of Hitlers generals... He is saying because of the involvement in the med (and north africa) vital resources were moved from stemming the red advance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Finally the casualty rates were for the guy who said other countries did nothing in the war. The casualty rates show the ultimate sacrifice countries gave, not money, or planes but lives in fighting. Thats what it means... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


ohh ps the American Sicilians (mafia) involvement in the Attacks on Sicily are a myth. Mainly made up by american sicilians (mafia) to look good. Like the one about the old man who signalled in Troops in his tractor, ect. They are not real im afraid... Take it from a half italian whos english grandfather fought in North africa and Italy.

Oak_Groove
04-11-2005, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Poacher886:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>,As in Stalingrad where the pincer movement encircled 200.000 of the best german soldiers in von Paulus army. This is also the first major allied victory.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The first major allied victory,and the turning point in the war,was when the British single handedly decisively deafeated both the Italians and Germans(who comanded by there best genral Rommel)on a level playing field with equal arms and armour,kicked them out of Africa.
This was Germany's first decisive deafeat with all they had thrown at it,this marked the turning point of the war..it was all win win win after this.
It is also interesting to note,when the yanks turned up afterwards to relive the Desert rats,they expected to see this unique smart fighting force they had heard so much about,but were greeted by a scruffy looking army with rusty old war bitten tanks,and were suprised.

The Americans started to lose badley straight away,because they refused to accept the offer of experience gained from the British,they were making the same mistakes the Brits did 2yrs earlier,of course eventually they bowed there heads and listened. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The turning point was when Hitler lost the initiative, that was winter 1941 before the gates of moscow. Germany's war machine was not geared towards a war of attrition, where victory depends less on military competence but more on quantitave superiority. The 2nd World War was not won by a single piece of equipment, military unit or tactic, it was decided on the strategical level through industrial power and logistics. That being said, without US logistics support (lend-lease) throughout the war, Britain, because of it's geostrategic position and stripped of most capable european allies, could have done little more than to sent out bombers each night to attack german industry or housing areas.

Bubblehead1948
04-11-2005, 04:36 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif You know what? The insidious bomb thrower that started this thread is still watching from the weeds and laughing his **** off. Enough of this nonsense. The Brits are as much a part of us as English Commmon Law is part of the Constitution.

InfectiousDust
04-11-2005, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JuanCudz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:


For anyone who has actually read history, its a well known fact that the Commies, the stinking red,was the ones who carried the brunt of WW2. Something which is reflected in their casualities. Ever considered why the nazis had almost double the number of troops on the east front in 1944? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the origianl post winds me up have as much as these 'Russia won the war' claims that people roll off by rote, courtesy of the wishy washy leftist education we suffered in the 60's and 70's. Of Russia's 'estimated' 20mil war dead, well over half can have been killed by the russians themselves, the war being the ultimate excuse for Stalin to get all those troublemakers out of the way.

And if it wasnt for Equipment supplied by US/UK via Artic Convoys, The russians would have had to WALK to berlin. You never see any jeeps or 30cwt trucks in any soviet propaganda, nor should you expect to. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry kid, but history is something i studied at uni, and claiming the stalin purges (which almost all took place before and after ww2) are a part of those 27m, which only refers to casualities between 41-45, is uncomfirmed bollox. i am not a marxist just because i have an education. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite right. The Soviet genocide in the Ukraine, in which Soviets killed off an estimated 14.5 million Ukrainians, occurred primarily between 1930 and 1938. This was not during wartime, and would not be considered as having any relation to WWII.

BAT502
04-11-2005, 05:17 PM
Nice one Dominicrigg.

One thing that I would like to ask you as you seem to be the only one who knows anything about WW2. What about the Battle of Britain? People are talking alot about Stalingrad. (Good Read BTW) and North Africa, so to some the BoB may seem small and insignificant compared to the other two campaigns. But surely from a stategic point of view this was the first major defeat for the Germans? Because if they had won the BoB the stategic importance would have had an overwhelming effect on the whole world?

Many thanks for reply.

tavita_martin
04-12-2005, 05:26 AM
Taking us back to the original post - why do Brits hate America, my 2c worth...

It's not actually the British, but you'll find that much of the world (third, first, communist, democratic) currently despise America.

This is not out of choice so much; we haven't woken up one morning and decided that because America is Democratic and rich that we will hate it. Rather, the USA is a country that claims to embody so much but over the last 40-50 years it has blatently done quite the opposite of what it claims.

As an example of democracy, supporting freedom, bring peace and prosperity, since the 60's (possibly Vietnam being the most obvious turning point) the US has arguably done more harm than good. We only have to look at support for Saddam Hussein and the Mujahadeen as being two such examples of the contradiction between claims and reality. Then, thrown down our throats constantly by the US media and politicians is how the world must agree to US terms....or else.

I for one am very thankfull that the USA eventually joined WWII, just as my own country (New Zealand) did. While the US contributed massively to the final victory in WWII, to claim that this contribution required the rest of the world to blindly support US policy since then is crazy....especially since much of this policy increases the likelyhood of war.

This is what annoys many foreigners about the US, simply that the USA today is a very different country from that which helped fight off the Nazis in WWII.

Ultimately it seems a large number of US citizens view of what their country does in the world is very different from what the rest of us experience first hand. There also seems to be a failure to understand (surprisingly for a country that fears big governemtn) just how much their media and social viewpoint is being manipulated in the quest for more political power.

Dominicrigg
04-12-2005, 05:43 AM
lol you shouldnt ask for my opinions! Now i will waffle on for pages lol, but thanks for the compliment, lots of people here know what they are talking about, some just mix up certain points or dont think it through. But now my chance to waffle on the Battle of Britain! lol

Again the Battle of Britain was of massive importance for many reasons.

Most obviously it greatly weakened the luftwaffe as a fighting force. The large portion of their pilots who had gained great experience in Spains civil war and through poland and france were killed, along with a lot of their equipment. During and then following this battle British manufacture of Aircraft equalled and then overtook German manufacture.

We all know now with hindsight that airpower is one of the most important aspects of warfare so this alone was a big blow, weakening Germany's combined arms for the rest of the war. Who knows what effect these pilots and machines would have had thrown into a war with Russia.

As for the invasion, through my lessons i was swayed by the opinion of one of my lecturers which is that Hitler never truly intended to invade Britian, and infact never could have. At the least nowhere near the dates proposed.

From the start it can be seen he didnt want war with Britain and admired the Empire (though he did want egypt and the suez and Iraq) after being ignored in his offers of peace when france were finished he only half heartedly set up for a seaborn invasion. When you compare the organisation with that of D-Day you can see Hitlers operation sealion, even had it got off the ground, was woefully underplanned.


You have the basic thrust of the Battle of Britain campaign. To destroy the airforce for a sea invasion. The navy seems to have been totally ignored. True the airforce were to take care of the navy but germany lacked large amounts of anti shipping aircraft, as shown in the med. There they had to relocate the anti shipping pilots from norway since local aircrews couldnt hit much. So even had they destroyed the RAF could they have got past the Navy?

Had the troops they were aiming to ferry across on the barely seaworthy barges and the cargo ships, not been touched by the Royal Navy. Then they had to breech some elaborate sea defences and heavily mined bays and waters. Remember an invasion of Britain there are only so many suitable areas. With such short coastline defence is made much easier then France or Africa where there are 100's of miles of possible invasion points.

One thing i agree if they had made it past all these England would not have lasted long in a land battle. Though im sure you would have seen resistance to rival the French Resistance afterwards. Many sabotage groups had been in training and had secret "lairs" ready for such an event. We all know how the SAS alone made a massive impact on Italian and German morale and equipment in North Africa, imagine on their own turf!

Of course had Britain fallen no land invasion of France could have taken place. Much like Africa being the key to southern Europe and Vichy France, the Balkans and Italy, Britain was the launch point for the whole western invasion. Without using the island as a build up point for forces (which was going on for over a year prior to the invasion) Frances liberation would have been impossible.

This would have given Germany Breathing space in the west, the whole of North Africa, and oil resources of Iraq ect. It could have mobilised the resources of all the captured countries and been an economic powerhouse. Its debatable but i feel Russia would have fallen within a couple of years at the most standing alone.

America more then likely would never enter the war with Germany (the American people didnt want the war much like todays sentiments) and would eventually face Japan alone. With no way of invading mainland Europe and no aid against Japan, Japan on the other hand would have the aid of Germany who its likely would have declared war against America when they were ready.

Then think of the top secret projects in Germany which had been pushed back due to other pressing issues, like finding jet fighters, making a Super U-Boat, the Atom bomb, designing heavy bombers, better tanks, stronger seawall defences. All these things would have come to Germany quicker. Then think of the things America wouldnt have, Anti U-boat tactics learnt by Britain, Radar, Rolls Royce Engines for the P-51's, jet engines from whittle, experienced generals to lead the armies, none of the lend lease bases handed over...

I wouldnt like to speculate on the outcome of the war had Britain fallen. But from there there are so many what ifs and branches life could have taken.

I personally feel you would have two superpowers, perhaps even to this day. A Nazi state of North africa and the whole continent of Europe across Russia(and Britain), facing off across the Atlantic against the last bastion of Democracy America. Both sides racing for the technology to take the fight across the ocean...

Sheesh i scared myself there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif good job we can speculate on these things and not have to live them!

Messervy
04-12-2005, 05:59 AM
Good thinking Dom!

In jest I may say that sometimes American policy aggrovates me to a point that I would allmost gladly accept your speculative division of powers had Britain fallen.

ShadowDancer666
04-12-2005, 06:01 AM
None here can claim in a blanket statement A Hates B.

Hate is a very strong word and implies a depth of dislike built up over a period of time.

To say you Hate a certain president is an over statement, made generally by people who have invested very little of their own time involved in action against the views of said president. Whether present in March's, writing to lobbying bodies, members of parliament, the press or being involved in relief aid for families in effected regions.

Sitting in a chair infront of the TV shouting 'how dare they not sign the kyoto agreement', while the products you use, the food you eat and the transport you travel on is a testiment to pollution means you are a hypocrite.

I am British and am very grateful to past members of my family who gave up their lives to be free. Do not confuse the population of a country with the views of the goverment or press.

I do not agree with many aspects of the current US leaders choices, I do not Hate him, I don't know him. At best I can say I do not care for the message he puts across to Europe but hey thats goverments. I would have more issue with the leadership of China or Burma.

The US is a target, the current goverment being some what naive about world wide diplomacy, i'm sure this will change, unless we all get blown up first!!

Barracus0411
04-12-2005, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BAT502:
Nice one Dominicrigg.

One thing that I would like to ask you as you seem to be the only one who knows anything about WW2. What about the Battle of Britain? People are talking alot about Stalingrad. (Good Read BTW) and North Africa, so to some the BoB may seem small and insignificant compared to the other two campaigns. But surely from a stategic point of view this was the first major defeat for the Germans? Because if they had won the BoB the stategic importance would have had an overwhelming effect on the whole world?

Many thanks for reply. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Battle of Britain prevented a British defeat/occupation, Stalingrad and El Alamein permanently removed the initiative from the European Axis.

Had the British been defeated in the BoB the war in Europe would have ended, until such time as the Axis redployed in the East and turned on Mother Russia.

One can speculate if the Soviets could have prevented an Axis victory alone, I doubt it very much

HelpfulParadox
04-12-2005, 06:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:

Doh, how would they invade sicily? From where? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I think you missed the basics of war. Would it be an airborn raid from... ermmmm uhhh ohhh cancel that there are not even any airfields near enough... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many launching points, gibraltar, malta, england for that matter, distance is only a relative problem to the task at hand. Africa is far from south europa, except spain. Its doubtful that a small german army in africa could challenge the superior british and american navys will to make a invasion happen. However, more importantly the attack on the "soft belly of europe" failed strategically because after italia troops surrendered, at once, without any serious fighting (when the allied reached the mainland), germany reinforced kesselrings army in
italia and the allied invasion lost momentum. In the end it also became a sideshow away from the more important invasion of normandie and france.
A joke commonly refered in the allied troops spoke of the "though old gut" of europe in contrary to churchill vision of "soft underbelly" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
It is showing the importance of the mediteranian campaign. From one of Hitlers generals... He is saying because of the involvement in the med (and north africa) vital resources were moved from stemming the red advance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are refering to a convicted warcriminal whose singel statement honestly dont mean very much, sorry.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dominicrigg:
ohh ps the American Sicilians (mafia) involvement in the Attacks on Sicily are a myth. Mainly made up by american sicilians (mafia) to look good. Like the one about the old man who signalled in Troops in his tractor, ect. They are not real im afraid... Take it from a half italian whos english grandfather fought in North africa and Italy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did i say mafia? does exile-sicilian mean mafia? arent you being a tad judgemental here? The invasion of sicily was to some degree supported with intelligence from exile sicilians. That the strategic effect of this today has been exaggrrated is possible.

Dominicrigg
04-12-2005, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HelpfulParadox:

There are many launching points, gibraltar, malta, england for that matter, distance is only a relative problem to the task at hand. Africa is far from south europa, except spain. Its doubtful that a small german army in africa could challenge the superior british and american navys will to make a invasion happen. However, more importantly the attack on the "soft belly of europe" failed strategically because after italia troops surrendered, at once, without any serious fighting (when the allied reached the mainland), germany reinforced kesselrings army in
italia and the allied invasion lost momentum. In the end it also became a sideshow away from the more important invasion of normandie and france.
A joke commonly refered in the allied troops spoke of the "though old gut" of europe in contrary to churchill vision of "soft underbelly" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your not looking at the bigger picture here. Just as in the pacific war it was island hopping, war is a domino effect. America couldnt bomb/invade japan untill they had islands nearby. An invasion of Southern Europe from Britain? Not a chance...

No invasion of southern Europe was possible from England or malta or Gibralter. Go to Gibralter and you will see organising an invasion from there is impossible, its not a military base, its a rocky Hilly dock area. Easily defended but not great enough to mass troops and tanks ect.

Had africa been lost the other islands would have gone, the main base for Britain was Alexandria in Egypt, that falls, no Navy in the med. No navy means no Malta, no islands in the med. Germany could concentrate everything (including italian navy, airforce) on gibralter or just pen them in.

Finally though the attacks in southern Europe stalled in italy there were landings in Vichy France. Remember the mere threat of invasion costs the enemy.

Germany had to invade Neutral Vichy france to stop a possible landing in the south (between italy and spain) had to re-inforce italy and prepare the atlantic seawall. Combined with defending Norway from an invasion, the western coast of france and normandy beaches. Not to mention the Africa campaign arguably pushed italy and italian feeling towards the allies and away from Hitler and gave them the "push" to switch to allied support.

All massive drains on Hitlers war machine. Now his troops were spread far over france, the balkans, italy and russia. And over 250,000 axis troops had been captured in Africa when Hitler stupidly and stubbornly (something which luckily characterised his later decisions and over-ruling of his own generals) reinforced Tunis when all was lost already.

Not to mention we with hindsight can see russia and Great Britain were going to last a fair while against Germany, at the time this was far from accepted. Capturing North Africa ensured a jumping off point for Allied forces if mainland Europe and Britain fell.

Finally take into account growing dissent in Britain, its possible the people could have put england out of the war had she not won in North Africa. As you will know from modern warfare, fighting a war with a democracy is difficult. Especially when its not going well, and anti war feeling was growing prior to this turning point.

As for the Mafia i guessed that was who you meant, as they are the only ones who credit themselves with helping the invasion, during an invasion ordinary people are seldom seen. They hide in basements and lock their houses, there was no involvement claimed from ordinary sicilians, only mafiosi. So i guessed this is the help you were refering to. The people only come out when the fighting is over, to thank the winners, the mafia are not so selfless to risk their lives for freedom of the people they threaten, but thats a whole different argument!

mightyduck100
04-12-2005, 07:49 AM
Well I for one don't hate the Septic Tanks.

Its easy to say they are insular and don't know much about the rest of the world but you can only be what your culture and environment makes you. Any culture is naturally biased towards self, its human nature.
The "we are better than thou" opinion, without necessarily being expressed overtly, cannot be helped.

The US has made the most of its opportunities over the last 229 years and I say fair play to them.
In the early years America took advantage of England and France fighting and more recently used their manufacturing power to impose their status as the worlds only superpower.

Had England not been at war with France in the 1770's the new world might still be English and French colonies.
Conversely, had the Japanese not bombed Pearl Harbour in 41 the US may not have entered the war and Britain might now be a German Colony.

There is no point dwelling on history but its important to try and understand the lessons it teaches us and the important turning points whether they be on a local or global scale. History made the world we live in today and continues to do so.

America has its problems as all countries do but it has a lot to offer as well. Its probably the only truly multi cultural country in the world.

Having said all that though England is still the Land of Hope and Glory.



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Barracus0411
04-12-2005, 07:59 AM
Your not looking at the bigger picture here. Just as in the pacific war it was island hopping, war is a domino effect. America couldnt bomb/invade japan untill they had islands nearby. An invasion of Southern Europe from Britain? Not a chance...

Quite agree, look at the logistical problems faced by the Allies after D-Day and during Market Garden. Then extend the lines of supply by hundreds of miles around occupied France and Fascist Spain - just not feasible I'm afraid.

Zmidd
04-12-2005, 08:25 AM
To get back to the original topic:

I am British (Scottish, to be a bit more precise). Do I universally hate all Americans simply because they are Americans? No. Many Americans I have met have an attitude of 'we're better than you because we're American', and I tend to dislike those Americans because of that attitude, but that's really about it.

Do I hate the American government? Yes, most definately. They are arrogant, think the whole world revolves solely around the US, think that whatever they do is right simply because they do it, think that any problem can be solved by simply throwing enough money/troops at it and refuse to do anything about global warming, despite the fact they are the world's biggest contributor to it. However, for many of the same reasons, I also hate the British government.

ReaperJester
04-12-2005, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Poacher886:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SPLASHONEBOOGER:
Ooooer Missus, some twot opened a can of worms ere didn't they?

Been P'ing meself laughing at this thread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As a Brit now living in Igloo land <--- (The founders of the UN - Thats enough to bomb the **** out of em!) I have realised one major flaw that is present in ALL human beings no matter where they are or where they go; we all consider ourselves better than anyone else...

Basically all you narnah's who replied to the muppet's original thread post are right taters. Didn't anyone here realise that the real enemy is Canada! Blame them! "With their beady lil eyes and their heads so full of lies..."
Don't worry ol love's dear old Blighty has it covered, we are gradually infiltrating the frozen White North to avert another Napoleon (Quebec)...

Anyhow before I sign off I have to put the record straight; to the **** that posted a complete compost heap of total & utter bollocks about the US learning from the faults of the UK's past here goes:

a) the US is big enough & ugly enough to make its own F-ups both in the past , present & future; pretty much as we (UK) did by voting in Mr. Tony B Liar and look like to do again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
b) The Brits DID NOT slaughter any Indians, Pakistanis or otherwise! They did however defend themselves only and I repeat ONLY when they (Indian's)were riled in protest concerning religious matters, the Pakistani's sued for a more peaceful solution to self rule & government.
The Brits opened up such countries with trade & commerce and assimilated their culture into our own & vice versa and if they hadn't then someone with less respect and ethics woudl had done so in their place (Cough! French!) and goodness knows where the world would be today!
c) South Africa... Umm last time I read a History book the Brits got their Royal Botties whupepd by a band of Dutch brigands and were kicked out of SA way back when so these Afrikaan's are masters of their own past's I am afraid. Australia, NZ... Umm no comment apart from "Who won the Rugby world cup then eh? :P" LOL! Sorry couldnt resist. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
d) China, what planet are you from monkey boy? The Chinese had the Brits & the rest of the world hooked on Opium as part of her historic & on going move for world domination... Oh you think I jest... In reality the Brits were exporting the substance OUT of China as it was considered by the worlds populace, civilised & non , to be a health drug of all things!

Chappies who wrote this BS as mentioned above, my old **** sparra's, go get some real world education - stop trying to be clever, it really doesnt suit you- then come back & attempt to write some more utter twoddle for our entertainment.

To you American guys out there; a hearty "what o" and "slap on the old back" for showing great restraint on thsi thread, whilst I do not hold with the "We won the war" baloney nor do I entertain the Yank bashing that seems so prevalent these days I must say bloody well done lads for holding off from going to DEFCON 1 on this here thread. Top Hole!

"oooh Canada..." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well said old chap,except one minor detail if your allow me...

The dutch in Africa you refer to,be the boer's and the boer war was most certainly won by us old bean,you hardly expect us to have allowed any different now do you!!

Also on a side note it is interesting to note that Britian did gain its empire by and large from trade..and was the first country to abolish the slave trade!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah ill agree on that. being south african myself you guys did win that war. after you decided to take southern africa for its resources. and dont' forget the thousands of women and children that died in concentration camps you set up during the time. my grandparents house isn't very far from one of those sites.

still this argument is rather boring. and i'd rather still stand with the british than the americans. its all about the arrogance. its all about the arrogance of a young nation.

oh and im really sick and tired of ignorance leading to questions regarding postage, "south africa, which country in south africa, it's just a region"...

and the yanks didnt' outright join on their own did they, didnt' japan and germany declare on them?

oh and well said oak_groove, ditto wolftooth...a young nation that has to learn from being overeager, and arrogant (mostly), and will do so in time. we'll see if ya'll stay so in the forefront of the world's stage for years and years to come. oh wait, here comes china http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jagtigermk2
04-12-2005, 09:02 AM
if you think about it, no matter what happend in ww2 the victors would of been the first ones to create an atomb bomb.

Germany missed out on the chance when there heavy water equipment was destroyed. America was the first to create such a weapon, so no matter what happend, i supose they would of been the victors.

Germany tried to continue the war even in defeat by sending a u-boat to Japan with a cargo which was to help Japan continue the war.

The U-234
Cargo containers were built to fit in the original mine shafts forward, midships and astern. Four cargo containers were carried topside. 240 tons of cargo were loaded for departure 25March1945. Cargo included three crated Messershmitt aircraft (two Me-262 jet fighters, ME-163 rocket-propelled fighter), Henschel HS-293 glider-bomb, extra Junkers jet engines, 10 canisters of uranium oxide, a ton of diplomatic mail, and over 3 tons of technical drawings, plus other technology (torpedo, fuses, armor piercing shells, etc.) Passengers were 9 high technical officers (one general) and civilian scientists. Destination: Japan. Two returning Japanese Navy Lt. Commanders, one air and one submarine, were returning, having observed Nazi technology and techniques

I supose even if it did reach Japan it would of been to late to be of any help.

Piper444
04-12-2005, 09:10 AM
I cannot say that I agree with everything Bush has done, but name one person that can agree with everything a politician says or does and you have a fanatic.

Bush has certainly made the point that the US will act in it's own interests if it feels necessary and will not wait for the approval from those nations that have their own agendas. I think that, in a general sense, that was a good point to make.

As far as Americans thinking they live in the best country, most people I have met from other countries feel the same way about their own. That's just natural.

It is clear now that there are no weapons of mass desruction in Iraq, but at the timeof the invasion, everyone thought there were and Saddam did everything he could to make us believe that. Maybe people forget back then how he would restrict the UN inspectors from checking certain areas. Hindsight is great but it's not fair to judge by that.

But does it matter? All we hear today is how the civilized world did nothing to stop the Holocaust (which by the way, was responsible for the deaths of 10-12 million people, not JUST 6 million Jews.) If we are aware of mass genocide being committed, do we sit back and say it's not our business or do we stop it?

And please don't write back and talk about how genocide has been ignored in Africa because that would be a waste of your time- I agree with you completely. I am not at all happy that we have let so many die but that was under a different administration who waited for world approval to do the right thing. Bush took a bold risk and he will be judged by history- not by us now, no matter if we are for or against him.

Just as a sidenote to an early post in this thread to the German who felt that the Allies should not have targeted civilian cities: there really are no civilians in war. War is incredibly cruel and people win or die.

As far as problems that we have in this country, race relations, crime in the streets, etc. are largely hyped by the media and those who are empowered by the perceptions of problems.

Are we the best country? Probably every nation on the planet can make an argument for themselves based on their criteria. Most Americans are happy to live here, as are most residents of their own nation. This is a senseless argument because there will never be agreement. Everyone will be right in their position.

But what we can all agree on is that people should be able to live their lives in relative safety and not as victims.

mickalos
04-12-2005, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Bush has certainly made the point that the US will act in it's own interests if it feels necessary and will not wait for the approval from those nations that have their own agendas. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When his own interests include declaring war on a sovreign nation he can't just do it on a whim, there are rules. Obviously right now the people who are supposed to be upholding these rules(the U.N) are not brave enough to stand up to the US and therefore are absolutely useless.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It is clear now that there are no weapons of mass desruction in Iraq, but at the timeof the invasion, everyone thought there were and Saddam did everything he could to make us believe that. Maybe people forget back then how he would restrict the UN inspectors from checking certain areas. Hindsight is great but it's not fair to judge by that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Before the invasion Saddam was co-operating with the weapons inspectors, he wasn't an idiot, he knew this time was the real deal and not playing ball would be pointless. Don't get me wrong Saddam was a nasty bastard but you can't just pick and choose which evil dictors to remove.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Just as a sidenote to an early post in this thread to the German who felt that the Allies should not have targeted civilian cities: there really are no civilians in war. War is incredibly cruel and people win or die. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I always thought this bit was quite clearcut, Soldiers with guns, civilians without guns. Killing civilians not good killing soldiers good(not good but you know what I mean).

Piper444
04-12-2005, 09:52 AM
Actually, the rules allowed the US to invade, unilaterally if neccessary, the Iraq did not comply with the terms of the cease-fire and he did not do it by presidential fiat- he obtained approval for the US Senate, including many Democrats. There are valid criticisms but calling it a whim or arrogant are not. There was a real goal and if you let yourself be blinded by politics or emotions, you will nevver be able to make a considered argument.

And I wish in the real world you could make such a distinction between civilians and soldiers but war is waged against the machine and the machine is all inclusive, including the production, political will, potential recruits- a war is between nations and everything they encompass.

I have always wondered if the US did not have better targets than Hiroshima, but it did end the war. The huge civilian casualties might be one factor in why Japan has been very reluctant to have a substantial military force.

rupert77
04-12-2005, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mickalos:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Just as a sidenote to an early post in this thread to the German who felt that the Allies should not have targeted civilian cities: there really are no civilians in war. War is incredibly cruel and people win or die. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always thought this bit was quite clearcut, Soldiers with guns, civilians without guns. Killing civilians not good killing soldiers good(not good but you know what I mean). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aye, that's my opinion too. The bombings served absolutely no military purpose whatsoever, they didn't -as was determined- undermine morale but destroyed a human heritage be it in people or culture. Especially late in the war there wasn't even the morale aspect or war effort to it anymore, flattened cities and civilians were continously bombed just for the sake of it, even farms were strafed along with their cattle, pointless destruction without bounds. Thus I consider the bombings -including the nukes- atrocities and saying it was war doesn't excuse it. Killing civilians is just wrong no matter on what grounds or by whom. Ofcourse I consider sinking merchants carrying war supplies legitimate, likewise goes for bombing factories which produce war materials but bombing civilians in their homes, schools or hospitals simply isn't.

Saw a program on television the other day, it was partially on the bombings. On one such raids an American bomber group bombed Ruesselsheim a fairly small German city. One of the bombers was shot down, the crew bailed and landed near the city they had just destroyed. The civilians naturally were enraged, formed a lynch mob and killed the crew. Two of the air crew survived though playing dead. After the war they returned and had five of the civilians hanged. One of the airmen said; 'like Jesus one has to forgive'.

axeman3d
04-12-2005, 11:29 AM
The only person who ever waged 'total war' was a guy called Hitler, who made no distinctions and had no qualms about killing anyone. Modern armies with modern precision weapons and controlled by right-thinking people do their utmost to prevent civilian casualties and concentrate on breaking down the military machine, not destroying the entire country. Besides, I thought the whole point of Bush's quest was to depose Saddam and free Iraq and it's people, not kill them all?

The US wanted the war, over-ruled the UN and all the protests from more reasonable people and went ahead and invaded expecting an easy victory after the original Gulf War. The UK went along since they are the US's best allies and plan to stay on their good side, and they too fabricated evidence and tried to drum up publicity for the war, and they too failed miserably. The war was manufactured by those who wanted it, not by people wishing to depose a dictator for the good of his people. If the Iraqis got a break from it then that was just a bonus as far as the US was concerned.

The US has a foreign policy that's famous for causing problems wherever they try to stomp it into people, and it's caused them and the rest of the world a lot of grief over the years, and in backlash a lot of terrorism too. You do not endear yourself to people who think you warmongers by sending in the troops to change the government and install one more amenable to you and your policies. It lead to disasters like Vietnam, Chile, Equador, Bay of Pigs, Beirut, etc. I cant remember if it was Bill Hicks or Dennis Miller that said he was saddened by what the US had done, and some redneck told him "America, love it or leave it!" His reply was "What, and become a victim of our foreign policy? No way!"

SwissSkipper
04-12-2005, 11:39 AM
I didn't read al the comments...but I just have to say one thing.

SWITZERLAND OWNES!!!!!

HARR HARR SUCKAs!

Long Friday

axeman3d
04-12-2005, 11:45 AM
Switzerland? Switzerland??

Hmmm, Switzerland...

Were they the ones that... no, that was the British.

Ah, wait! Weren't they the ones that invented... no, that was the Germans, wasn't it.

Switzerland. Didn't they do that thing back in, ohh, the 1800's, that thing they did? No? The Prussians? Oh, ok.

Switzerland, eh. Sorry. Means nothing to me.

Cloud_Cat
04-12-2005, 11:46 AM
Why did somebody have to start this thread? This is just going to end in bad blood.

But if the original person who posted the thread wants an opinion then here's mine.

As someone who has done a bit of travelling and met many people of different nationalities i can't think of many i've spoken to who have a good word to say about america, even some of the americans i've met weren't that impressed about america and it's foreign policies.

The re-occuring feelings towards america that i've come across are that america is/are....

Arrogant, bullies, ignore other countries because they don't have the economic strength to contend, war mongering, violate human rights, do things to satisfy their own ends, don't give two hoots about anybody but themselves (pollution etc), invaders under the disguise of the flag of freedom etc. probably there are more to add.

I think people in the UK esp are ragged off with america because they are tired of being or seen to be americas lap dog. Bush says jump Blaire asks how high.

Overall, america dosen't seem to have a good reputation outside of..well...america.

Sorry if this comes as a shock but that's the way it is and until america does something about it's rep that's the way it's going to be. a lot of people disliking the US and THe US being suprised at that.

PLease understand that this is not necessarily the beliefs of the writer.......or is it???

Tiberonmagnus
04-12-2005, 12:56 PM
I've been hearing that American's are arrogant and full of themselves. But I have something to tell you..

Look.. at this thread and tell me that *some* Britains (at least on here) are not the one's that are being arrogant, are not the ones being full of themselves. Seriously, go back and read through this thread, it really appears that way. Its funny, almost seems hypocritical. You sure are not setting a good example by appearing arrogant and telling someone else that they are arrogant, just makes me want to laugh.

People should relax and understand that people of a country are usually found to be "proud" of the country they are from. Also it should be mentioned that the way alot of people are coming across on here is that they hate "all" American's because of such and such reason. Why don't you clarify it a bit, unless you honestly and truly hate us all. I'm an American, and just because I live here doesn't make me arrogant, self-absored, bull headed, and so forth. Talk about being stereotypical about a nation and its people. Almost think some people here should go take a cultural diversity class to understand some basic concepts of diversity and what it is.

People need to relax, lets talk about WWII.. go ahead and trash America back then, after all every nation has a shady past, Britains empire that reached far corners of the globe, its control of a country that the people only wanted to call their own (Ireland), and etc. Lets stick to that, at least we have something to go on.

Cloud_Cat
04-12-2005, 01:44 PM
To be honest with you i don't think the original question can be taken on the basis of individuals. It's more a question of a countrys goverment policies.

To say that person X is arrogant therefore his countrymen are arrogant is a flawed statment. One idividual does not make a nation.

What is also an important aspect is a countrys culture and how their powers that be teach and educate their people. From personal experience the US seems to have a very aggressive, self gratifying and a "you need to be a winner" culture.

I can understand where other nations get the idea of arrogance. I'm not saying the culture is wrong, cultures can't be wrong(another argument!). but i can see, Rightly or wrongly, how the US can be seen as such.

Regards