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View Full Version : ZvW Midway map.....SBD's ruled



Latico
03-13-2005, 01:52 PM
Last night I was simply amazed.

The Midway Map came up on the Zekes vs Wildcats serverand there must have been atleast 15 SBD's in 2 or 3 groups headed out to attack the IJN fleet.I was in one groud that had 2 SBD's and a wildcat in close formation with 2 more SBD's following not too far behind. Don't know for sure where the other groups were. But, it appears that we attacked in waves. This resulted in dividing the flak and AA so that it all didn't focus on one plane, which usually results in a failed attack.

Time ran out before the scripted game could score a winner, but it appears to me that the red side won. We had managed to sink 3 IJN CV's and about 2 or 3 DD's. At games end REd side had more planes/pilots remaining, all of our ships, and a good portion of the land targets at Midway.

I'm not gloating about the apparent win (well......maybe just a little) but trying to point out the effectiveness of the dive bombers when they group up and work together in their assaults on enemy targets. A single dive bomber ingressing through heavy AA and AAA doesn't stand a chance, but several attacking at from different directions thins down those defenses. Having some fighter escort to fend off enemy CAP helps allot too.

Oh, and looking around and seeing 2 to 4 planes in formation is pretty cool, too. I saved some Quick tracks of some of the action and will post them somewhere as soon as I get them reviewed and zipped. I'm getting screenshots from them, too. Coming soon.

EyeoftheChicken
03-13-2005, 04:10 PM
God help us that wasn't a complete fluke! Sure wish I could have been there for that. For those of you who have never been a part of a combined (fighter/attack) mission like that, you really are missing the reals flavor of the sims grander intentions. True, this is what coops are all about, but formulating strategies and carrying out successful attacks and making it back to the flat-top shot to pieces is a rich experience. And thanks to all the fliers like Outryder who take it upon themselves to push us further towards cooperative styles of play.

Cragger
03-13-2005, 04:18 PM
CVs don't fire their AAA on Zekes vs. Wildcats. Only the DDs last time I was there. Makes things alot easier.

Latico
03-13-2005, 04:54 PM
Thanks Eye,

I see so many post concerning the need for this and that to increase the emmersion of the sim, but I rarely see anyone mention what "WE" the user need to contribute.

You don't have to be in a virtual squadron to fly together in the DF rooms. The ZvW server give us a good mix of airial combat and ground pounding. Both sides have ground targets to take out as well as assets of our own to defend. It takes the cooperation of fighter groups and bomber groups to fully realise the emmerssion of combat on this server.

The dive Bombers (SBD and Val) have gotten little attention from the online community and that's ashame. Maybe after last night, this will change.

I fly the dive bombers because I stink as a fighter pilot. I've shot down more enemy planes in the dive bomber than I could ever knock down with a fighter. Sure I get shot down allot (mostly due to no fighter escort) but I do conciderable damage that contributes to the side I'm flying with. For me, it's not about accumulating points, it's about winning the battle. And cooperation between fighter and bomber groups is the key to success.

Latico
03-13-2005, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cragger:
CVs don't fire their AAA on Zekes vs. Wildcats. Only the DDs last time I was there. Makes things alot easier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you've taken out a few of their DD's they start shooting, and it can be intense at times.

That's why it is important to make coordinated multi-directional attacks. Makes it easier to get in and deliver the ordinance when the AA isn't all directed at one or two planes.

Latico
03-13-2005, 05:06 PM
One of our formations just before we attacked. 4 SBD's and a Wildcat

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/7308/zvwmidway020kt.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img169&image=zvwmidway020kt.jpg)

http://img169.exs.cx/img169/8020/zvwmidway015fo.th.jpg (http://img169.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img169&image=zvwmidway015fo.jpg)

ChicagoChad
03-14-2005, 10:34 PM
Thanks for the great post Outryder, the missions are designed for teamwork through goal oriented missions.


BTW: I put a 90 minute sleep on CV's on midway.

Hendley
03-15-2005, 01:09 AM
Boy, I wish I was there for that. Don't think I've seen more than 3 divebombers per team flying at once, ever.

The only Zeke vs Wildcat tracks I have involve my single smoking Val being systematically destroyed by four trailing P-40s elbowing each other out of the way for a shot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

EnGaurde
03-15-2005, 03:09 AM
as a dedicated Zero pilot, i fear the day more than three SBDs are flown coop. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

one, well flown and gunner occupied, is enough to simply abandon stern approaches.

id chase two wildcats over one SBD, that way only one end can kill me.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

EnGaurde
03-15-2005, 03:13 AM
actually hunting SBDs really, REALLY outlines the need for fluid view progression.

i like to zoom up fromn underneath and aim my shots at the engine, then rake the belly.

i find you cant effectively do that with snap views.... your timing is clunky and sporadic.

vive la TrackIr.

Feathered_IV
03-15-2005, 03:49 AM
Looking forward to seeing the G4M on this server real soon. Round Savo Island on the Guadalcanal map, keeping inside the cloud. Then sweeping in for a low-level run on the carriers and a torpedo in their guts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif.

Be even better if we had a flyable Ohka though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

VF51_Flatspin
03-15-2005, 08:17 AM
Great post Outryder, can't say how often I've tried to get that going in SBD's in there. Now, if we could just get you on TS!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ChicagoChad, Myself and later a few others managed to coordinate on the IJN side last night for some real success. It's ALL about the coordination and use of comms makes that a lot easier.

Osirisx9
03-15-2005, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Looking forward to seeing the G4M on this server real soon. Round Savo Island on the Guadalcanal map, keeping inside the cloud. Then sweeping in for a low-level run on the carriers and a torpedo in their guts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif.

Be even better if we had a flyable Ohka though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cant wait too. This will be the first aircraft that will get loaded on all the missions as soon as the pach is released

RAF238thOsiris

Latico
03-15-2005, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF51_Flatspin:
Great post Outryder, can't say how often I've tried to get that going in SBD's in there. Now, if we could just get you on TS!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ChicagoChad, Myself and later a few others managed to coordinate on the IJN side last night for some real success. It's ALL about the coordination and use of comms makes that a lot easier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish I could use TS as well. I played Fighters Anthology with a squadron and we used RW for comms. Made a big difference in not only coordinating our statagies, but it was really useful when training a new guy. It's a whole lot easier to relay what you need to say by voice than it is by text. Typing and fighting at the same time just doesn't work well at all.

When I crank up TS I get more than normal ping warnigns. Sometimes I even get kicked. I also experience additional lag and have frozen up a time or two. Having Dial-up doesn't help either. Living out in the country, DSL or cable isn't an available option at this time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> as a dedicated Zero pilot, i fear the day more than three SBDs are flown coop.

one, well flown and gunner occupied, is enough to simply abandon stern approaches.

id chase two wildcats over one SBD, that way only one end can kill me.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Engaurde, you haven't been guilty of sniffin around my tail, have you? LOL

I read in the After Action Reports of VS and VB pilots of the USS Enterprise that the IJ pilots weren't real eager to press home attacks against SBD's and TB's that were in formation and low to the deck. Just too many guns firing back at them.

BTW, I emailed a 18 minute .ntrk file to gaucho at the Warbirds of Prey web site, that I recorded of that Battle of Midway attack. Maybe they'll put it on the site for download so others can see the effectiveness of teamwork,

WTE_DuStA
03-15-2005, 05:23 PM
that map isn't a co-op, thats a dogfight server . It is nice to fly in formation but man thats a very loose formation , too loose to be effective in everyone defending against attacking fighters. Too much space between each plane for an enemy to zoom through unharmed.

EyeoftheChicken
03-15-2005, 05:46 PM
You know what Dusta, we were having a good time, and since when did anything else matter in the game except that. Don't you have a "where's the patch" thread to chime in on?

Latico
03-15-2005, 05:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_DuStA:
that map isn't a co-op, thats a dogfight server . It is nice to fly in formation but man thats a very loose formation , too loose to be effective in everyone defending against attacking fighters. Too much space between each plane for an enemy to zoom through unharmed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know it's a DF server......so what? We still have ground target objectives for both sides. Coordinating tactics is quite reasonable for the kind of mission maps the Zeke vs Wildcats DF server presents.

The pics I shared are after we began to split up some. As you can see we had already enter the flak zone. Staying in close formation at that point would have surely gotten us shot down.

Latico
03-16-2005, 12:58 AM
AS happened on June 4-6, 1942, the US has defeated the IJN at Midway on the Zekes Vs Wildcats, Battle of Midway map, This AM EST.

Coordinated attacks by groups of SBD's successfully sank all 4 CV's and their escorts, with more than an hour to spare on the time clock.

Film at 11.

VF51_Flatspin
03-16-2005, 08:03 AM
And what a blast it was! Most of my squad was in there flying fighters off Midway. I could tell by all the chatter on comms that they were keeping the zekes busy, dragging them South from the carrier group so we SBD jockeys could do our job without too much interception.

And BTW, one of our sorties was similar to this in formation size but Outryder in front when we got bounced. I took a couple hits, not bad - but our guns kept the zeke dancing around enough until a F4F peeled him off. I can't think of anything more fun, dogfight server or other, than a successful coordinated sortie.

Flatspin attached this image:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/Flatspin/flat-outryder.jpg

Krt_Bong
03-16-2005, 08:28 AM
Great posts All, I have been seeing requests on the warbirds forums for changing the ROF or dumbing down the flak to make it less intense against single plane attacks. This justs proves out what we have been trying to get across the whole time:
- not only are multiple plane attack groups more effective and more realistic
- they are way more fun.
I can hardly wait for the update and new additional planes like the Kate to increase the realism of the Warbirdsofprey servers, too bad the US side gets no Torps but..
RAF238th_Bong

Latico
03-16-2005, 04:22 PM
One thinkg Flatspin forgot to mention.

When we got jumpbed by that Zeke, we didn't break formation. We just opened up just a bit to give ourselves a bit of wiggle room for tipping over and tail wagging to give ourselves or our AI gunners clear shots at the bandit. I was glad to see that fighter come to our aid, and we continued on to the targets area.

Latico
03-16-2005, 07:59 PM
Hey Fl@spin,

You remember the first flight we made in that battle? There were 5 of us, and we managed to put away a CV and a DD in that first attack. But man, did we stir up a hornets nest LOL. I don't think any of us got away from those Zekes that jumped us on our way out.

Here's a shot of us on our way to the enemy fleet. There's me, Moses, Fl@spin, Vand, and way in the back is Catnip.

http://img60.exs.cx/img60/6349/zvwmidway086ad.th.jpg (http://img60.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img60&image=zvwmidway086ad.jpg)

EnGaurde
03-16-2005, 08:08 PM
aaah

interesting. *inspects fingernails, looking all nonchalant*

nice to see you fly reasonably high...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VF51_Flatspin
03-16-2005, 08:37 PM
He's right, we didn't break formation, even though my instinct was to dive and get all jinky.

Great shot Outryder!! Thanks for sharing it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Latico
03-16-2005, 08:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
aaah

interesting. *inspects fingernails, looking all nonchalant*

nice to see you fly reasonably high...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes we do...........and sometimes we don't. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

You can never predict which direction we'll come from. hehehe